How Is BA Doing In Austin?

dfwjim1 · Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:53 am

After the initial media coverage I haven't heard much of anything about BA's new service to AUS from LHR. I know the service
is new but does anyone know how it is performing both from a load factor and yield percentage perspective? Also is there much
cargo going either way?

Thanks for your responses.

[Edited 2014-04-08 18:01:21]

zippyjet · Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:19 am

Hopefully it will do well. AUS has a large growing moneyed hipster crowd with disposable income. So expect to see a plethora of passengers with $$$, funny Panama hats, and their women with Animal hoodies and some of them bypass soap but BA has nice planes and their cabin ventillation should win the battle of the body odor folk.

[Edited 2014-04-08 18:21:00]

[Edited 2014-04-08 18:21:58]

777Jet · Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:47 am

When I look for tickets from BKK-AUS it gives me quotes for basically all of the Asian / US / Middle East airlines, a few of the European airlines, and BA does not come up. This was using various search engines. I have to go to the BA website direct to get a quote. Is there a reason for this? I would have thought that they would be trying to push this route as it is new... I'd love to fly BKK-LHR-AUS...

HeeseokKoo · Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:03 am

At least BA didn't have super-cheap fare to or from Austin that BA frequently does when BA begins a new route (such as $777 business class roundtrip fare to Seoul). I wanted to take BA for my trip to Europe next week but it was nearly sold out on my possible dates since a month ago, so I guess BA is doing great at least for some dates.

zippyjet · Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 3):

You were beat out by a group of Austin's wierd/hipsters.

slowrambler · Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:51 pm

From my sample size of one flight - BA 191 was absolutely full, and I was moved from economy to premium economy (presumably due to oversold Y). That being said availability on the flight seems to depend strongly on the day of week.

cyba · Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:57 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
When I look for tickets from BKK-AUS it gives me quotes for basically all of the Asian / US / Middle East airlines, a few of the European airlines, and BA does not come up. This was using various search engines. I have to go to the BA website direct to get a quote. Is there a reason for this? I would have thought that they would be trying to push this route as it is new... I'd love to fly BKK-LHR-AUS...

No same day connections, that's probably why. Nothing to do with BA "pushing" the route or not.

BKK flight arrives LHR 17:35 and AUS flight departs 11:55

On the return a connection would be possible.

rutankrd · Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:05 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
This was using various search engines. I have to go to the BA website direct to get a quote. Is there a reason for this?

Yes BA must be achieving good loads and yield and so have no need to dump capacity and discounted tickets via internet resellers at the moment.

anstar · Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:26 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 3):
I wanted to take BA for my trip to Europe next week but it was nearly sold out on my possible dates since a month ago, so I guess BA is doing great at least for some dates.

I believe it is Easter next week so would expect it to be a peak travel week

PMUA787 · Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:12 pm

Its amazing the tale of two Texas with AUS getting a LHR flight and my closest airport ELP cant seem to support service to ORD or SFO.

dfwjim1 · Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:31 pm

In regards to ELP, I am very surprised that there is no service to ORD, less so about SFO.

usdcaguy · Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:47 pm

From whom is BA pulling the most share out of AUS? UA?

SonomaFlyer · Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:45 pm

I'd think they would pull from AA and UA. Given the jv with AA, they are essentially considered one airline on market share.

GSTBA · Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 7):
Yes BA must be achieving good loads and yield and so have no need to dump capacity and discounted tickets via internet resellers at the moment.

Tomorrows flight ex LHR is overbooked in all cabins. Average load factor since the routes launch is about 80-85%. Forward bookings on the route are well ahead of expectations. Tomorrows flight ex LHR is overbooked in all cabins.

SCQ83 · Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:53 pm

I am not surprised that AUS is performing well. I remember many posters here wondering why a place like Austin would need a long-haul flight to BA. Austin is Texas (oil money, and that is a lot of money; and Austin is the capital and the "Athens" of Texas), one of the wealthiest universities in the world (University of Texas at Austin) which means a large international/well-educated/traveled population, a lot of high-tech / venture capital activity (fast-growing industries) and even emerging as a niche tourism destination. And statistically Austin is at the top (or nearly) of the fastest growing areas in the US in terms of population.

Overall, sometimes I feel some posters (specially in Europe

) have some preconceived ideas about the fate of American cities and metro areas. The rising and falling cycles in the fate of US cities is much quicker than in Europe. It is not by chance that airports like STL or CLE have lost so much traffic over the years, other places like ORD have been relatively stagnant while the Bay Area, BOS or Texas have had healthy increases. Looking at the main drivers of the economy of each of those places and then everything starts to make sense.

Quoting PMUA787 (Reply 9):
Its amazing the tale of two Texas with AUS getting a LHR flight and my closest airport ELP cant seem to support service to ORD or SFO.

Indeed... the socioeconomic dynamics in Austin and El Paso are completely different.

huxrules · Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:18 pm

With it getting lighter in the evening I'd recommend to BA that they start flying from 17r and turning over the city to remind people nightly that they fly here. Plus I want to see it over my house.

Thenoflyzone · Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:22 pm

Quoting huxrules (Reply 15):
I'd recommend to BA that they start flying from 17r a

Having a quick look at AUS on google earth, it seems like 17R has two 90 degree exits, which delay the exit of aircraft from the runway. This might be the reason why 17L is the preferred landing runway.

Now 17R, being the longer of the two, might be used by BA for departure int the summertime, as the temperature climbs in the 100s and 110s.

Thenoflyzone

hohd · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:09 am

All the oneworld and AA crowd now can fly direct from AUS to LHR. If you already a oneworld elite, it will be easy to switch to BA at Austin. And the star crowd would basically be loyal to UA (as it is a short 45 minute flight to IAH or 2.5 hr drive). Based on this I expect it will pull more traffic away from AA at DFW. The middle east airlines (in IAH as many choose to drive to IAH to catch a EK or QR flight) may lose some traffic to BA in Austin for going to Middle East and India.

777Jet · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:16 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 7):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
This was using various search engines. I have to go to the BA website direct to get a quote. Is there a reason for this?

Yes BA must be achieving good loads and yield and so have no need to dump capacity and discounted tickets via internet resellers at the moment.

I just did another search and the BA flight came up! BKK-AUS return 1 stop via LHR on BA was about $2,400 AUD one month in advance whilst the cheapest was DL, 2 stops, for $1,500 AUD. Through the BA website the price was slightly more than double though...

nomorerjs · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:18 am

Eagle flies 2x daily ELP - ORD. Not mainline, but flights none the less. I've heard MFE may get ORD service soon.

YoungDon · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting hohd (Reply 17):
All the oneworld and AA crowd now can fly direct from AUS to LHR. If you already a oneworld elite, it will be easy to switch to BA at Austin. And the star crowd would basically be loyal to UA (as it is a short 45 minute flight to IAH or 2.5 hr drive). Based on this I expect it will pull more traffic away from AA at DFW. The middle east airlines (in IAH as many choose to drive to IAH to catch a EK or QR flight) may lose some traffic to BA in Austin for going to Middle East and India.

Is there a possibility that any other European carrier would consider AUS in a couple of years, should this route exceed expectations?

zippyjet · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:32 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 14):
I am not surprised that AUS is performing well. I remember many posters here wondering why a place like Austin would need a long-haul flight to BA. Austin is Texas (oil money, and that is a lot of money; and Austin is the capital and the "Athens" of Texas), one of the wealthiest universities in the world (University of Texas at Austin) which means a large international/well-educated/traveled population, a lot of high-tech / venture capital activity (fast-growing industries) and even emerging as a niche tourism destination. And statistically Austin is at the top (or nearly) of the fastest growing areas in the US in terms of population.

And, Austin has gotten a lot of transplants from California, New York metro area, Boston, Chicago, Denver etc. A lot of the moneyed hipster crowd has defected from their homelands and conquered Austin. A lot of the locals have been displaced at least economically as the cost of living has escalated due to the hipster money crowd from California and the other areas mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if AF eventually has service to Paris from Austin.

nomorerjs · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:35 am

Austin gets to keep it's hip, liberal, place to be with no state income tax and the rest of Texas is still happy! God bless Texas, where red and blue can live together!

LambertMan · Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:38 am

Good to hear loads are doing well and count me in as one of those that are not surprised.

In hindsight, the choice as the next North American destination for BA was really a no-brainer - the Austin-San Antonio market is a far better proposition than the other 787 possibilities out there. I'm especially hopeful this route succeeds as its really a litmus test for the viability of "fringe" markets like St. Louis, New Orleans, Kansas City, etc.

If Austin doesn't work, those probably won't either. Here's to hoping.....

777Jet · Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 22):
Austin gets to keep it's hip, liberal, place to be with no state income tax and the rest of Texas is still happy! God bless Texas, where red and blue can live together!

I'll second that! God bless Texas! I lived there for 7 years and it's hard to find a place with nicer folk. Moreover, good on AUS for getting a non-stop flight on BA straight to London... That is big, just like everything else in Texas

PMUA787 · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:52 am

Forgot about American Eagle's ELP-ORD. Have noticed lately that UA has stopped ELP-ORD or its schedule has been very irregular.

Longhornmaniac · Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:07 am

I'm friends with the BA station engineer at AUS. From what I have heard, the flight is doing pretty well. I think in general the loads have tapered off a bit after SXSW, but cargo will really be what carries the flight. The opportunity to easily move cargo to and from the Subcontinent cannot be overlooked.

I anticipate the loads will improve again once the summer travel season rolls around, but I have heard the loads in the front cabins have been good.

I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to be on the ramp and in the plane while they were turning the flight last Sunday. If I can post-process the pictures to my satisfaction, I'll post some!

Cheers,
Cameron

lightsaber · Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:46 am

Side note: I looked at the great circle map AUS-Asia and only ICN and NRT have much hope of ever seeing a flight. So a future discussion on a.net?

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 13):
. Average load factor since the routes launch is about 80-85%. Forward bookings on the route are well ahead of expectations. Tomorrows flight ex LHR is overbooked in all cabins.

Excellent. Good to hear.

Quoting YoungDon (Reply 20):
Is there a possibility that any other European carrier would consider AUS in a couple of years, should this route exceed expectations?

Thanks to lower cost per flight widebodies (787/A350), I consider it highly likely. But it would be to a major hub (FRA, CDG, or AMS, I see little to no chance for MAD.).

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 21):
I wouldn't be surprised if AF eventually has service to Paris from Austin.

How heavy of a domestic presence does Skyteam have at AUS? Longhaul flights do better building off a loyal customer base.

Lightsaber

brons2 · Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:51 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 21):
And, Austin has gotten a lot of transplants from California, New York metro area, Boston, Chicago, Denver etc. A lot of the moneyed hipster crowd has defected from their homelands and conquered Austin. A lot of the locals have been displaced at least economically as the cost of living has escalated due to the hipster money crowd from California and the other areas mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if AF eventually has service to Paris from Austin.

That's a little dramatic, don't you think? I've lived in AUS for 22 years and the only constant has been the influx of people, in good times and bad. They're not all hipsters.

I would like to give the BA flight a try, glad they're here. Double connecting to DXB on AA/BA was a pain in the rear. Now I have another one stop option, and it just about breaks up the flight time perfectly.

ScottB · Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 21):
I wouldn't be surprised if AF eventually has service to Paris from Austin.

How heavy of a domestic presence does Skyteam have at AUS? Longhaul flights do better building off a loyal customer base.

Given the JV between DL & AF-KL, I'd more expect to see a DL 767-300ER to CDG as the lowest-risk option.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16):

Now 17R, being the longer of the two, might be used by BA for departure int the summertime, as the temperature climbs in the 100s and 110s.

It's pretty rare for summertime temperatures in Austin to get up to or above 110.

Type-Rated · Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:19 pm

And it's a flight 191 too. LHR-AUS. Maybe BA will have better luck with that flight number than others have.

Longhornmaniac · Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 30):

Shit, I didn't even notice that! Weird! I'm 1 for 1 on it, so that's good, I guess!

Cheers,
Cameron

zippyjet · Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting brons2 (Reply 28):

I have flair for the dramatic, gets attention. I'm glad things are working well in Austin. And, I'm glad BA is doing well. Saves connections and time. How would other International carriers flight do in AUS?

ORDTLV2414 · Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting YoungDon (Reply 20):
Is there a possibility that any other European carrier would consider AUS in a couple of years, should this route exceed expectations?

yes, but needs a 787 to work. Which european carriers have 78's?

Bongodog1964 · Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:07 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 33):
yes, but needs a 787 to work. Which european carriers have 78's?

From the load factors being quoted this might not be a 787 route for BA in the future.

GSPSPOT · Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting hohd (Reply 17):
Based on this I expect it will pull more traffic away from AA at DFW.

It might pull a few daily pax from DFW, but with the massive connections from all over the U.S., I don't see the DFW flights (BA or AA) changing at all, unless to be increased over time.

RyanairGuru · Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:22 am

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 35):
It might pull a few daily pax from DFW, but with the massive connections from all over the U.S., I don't see the DFW flights (BA or AA) changing at all

I wouldn't fall over with shock if most of the passengers would previously have routed AUS-DFW-LHR (or AUS-DFW-Mainland Europe) but DFW will be able to absorb that loss with no problem at all. In fact, I wonder if launching AUS was deliberately strategic in that it was a toss up between another DFW flight and "thinking outside the box". It would be fascinating to know whether AA/BA have poached any UA customers.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 34):
From the load factors being quoted this might not be a 787 route for BA in the future

The problem would be that moving to a 777 would introduce F to the market. If J is filling up very strongly then that might not be too much of a problem, but I'm not sure how much ultra-premium demand there would be out of AUS?

(that said, BA seem to make it work at places such as SAN and PHX, so I'm sure they can pull it off)

rutankrd · Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:51 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36):
The problem would be that moving to a 777 would introduce F to the market. If J is filling up very strongly then that might not be too much of a problem, but I'm not sure how much ultra-premium demand there would be out of AUS?

Not necessarily the RR powered variety includes a number of three class models both with and without crew rest.

Config is C48 W24 Y203

Whilst the 788 is C35 W25 Y154

Probably ideal growth vehicle.

RyanairGuru · Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:56 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 37):
Not necessarily the RR powered variety includes a number of three class models

Sorry, I didn't realise that! I thought that the three class aircraft were all confined to LGW, and that LHR was all four class.

FlyCaledonian · Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:20 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 37):
Not necessarily the RR powered variety includes a number of three class models both with and without crew rest.

Config is C48 W24 Y203

Whilst the 788 is C35 W25 Y154

Probably ideal growth vehicle.

The 789 is also an option, which BA has indicated will only have 8F seats. Based on the info AA/BA will have on who is travelling this route frequently they will be able to identify whether F could work or not.

Whilst a three-class 772 provides a good capacity increase (but not too much), that would also have to be weighed against any cost increases (e.g. fuel burn).

The 788 is an ideal aircraft for BA for niche longhaul routes that are profitable, but also for testing the waters for new routes that have medium-term potential (so help minimise any short-term losses for start-up).

JerseyFlyer · Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:44 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 39):
The 788 is an ideal aircraft for BA for niche longhaul routes that are profitable, but also for testing the waters for new routes that have medium-term potential (so help minimise any short-term losses for start-up).

...which is why they bought it to replace 763s that are range-limited.

FlyCaledonian · Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 40):

Quoting FlyCaledonian,reply=39:
The 788 is an ideal aircraft for BA for niche longhaul routes that are profitable, but also for testing the waters for new routes that have medium-term potential (so help minimise any short-term losses for start-up).

...which is why they bought it to replace 763s that are range-limited.

Yet they have only purchased 8 to replace 14 frames, and with some of the new routes the 788 is being used on it's not even the case that the 788 is replacing 8 763s.

Viscount724 · Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:30 pm

Quoting YoungDon (Reply 20):

Is there a possibility that any other European carrier would consider AUS in a couple of years, should this route exceed expectations?

AUS metro area population is about 50% bigger than YYC which has 4 nonstop Europe carriers (AC/BA/KL/TS) and did have 5 until LH pulled out a year or two ago, leaving AC to handle YYC-FRA under their joint venture agreement.

YYC has had nonstop service to Europe since the early 1960s when the population was about 250,000.

777Jet · Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 34):
From the load factors being quoted this might not be a 787 route for BA in the future

The problem would be that moving to a 777 would introduce F to the market. If J is filling up very strongly then that might not be too much of a problem, but I'm not sure how much ultra-premium demand there would be out of AUS?

I think that would be an issue. I have a feeling it will stay a 788 for some time...

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 39):
The 788 is an ideal aircraft for BA for niche longhaul routes that are profitable, but also for testing the waters for new routes that have medium-term potential (so help minimise any short-term losses for start-up).

Agreed. IMO the 788 is the right aircraft for the AUS-LHR route and that the 788 was designed for such routes...

If BA did not have the 788 would this route have started up?

[Edited 2014-04-13 20:52:17]

Longhornmaniac · Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:31 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36):
I'm not sure how much ultra-premium demand there would be out of AUS?

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 43):
I think that would be an issue.

I'm not so sure. AUS has a lot of very wealthy people who have lots of business to do in the Middle East and India. Not saying they could make it work with a more premium cabin-oriented aircraft, but it doesn't strike me as being especially far-fetched, either.

Cheers,
Cameron

jumpjets · Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:52 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 41):
Yet they have only purchased 8 to replace 14 frames, and with some of the new routes the 788 is being used on it's not even the case that the 788 is replacing 8 763s.

I guess a couple of the new[er] routes - Austin and Chengdu - currently getting the 788 might, if they prove successful, see an upguage to a 789 when they come onstream next year allowing more of the 763 routes to be updated to a 788 and the rest can have the old 772s!.

LHRFlyer · Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:43 pm

Provisional CAA statistics show that 6,762 passengers travelled in both directions between LHR and Austin in March.

The route launched as a five weekly service on Monday 3 March. Assuming 21 return flights between 3 and 31 March, that's an average of 161 passengers per flight. Based on 214 seats a flight that's a load factor of 75%.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...ovisional_International_Routes.pdf

FlyingSicilian · Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:17 pm

YOu can go to this site and see how many people CBP processed when the BA flight came in:

http://awt.cbp.gov/

Are any other int'l flights scheduled to arrive at that time?

Thenoflyzone · Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
AUS metro area population is about 50% bigger than YYC which has 4 nonstop Europe carriers (AC/BA/KL/TS) and did have 5 until LH pulled out a year or two ago, leaving AC to handle YYC-FRA under their joint venture agreement.

YYC has had nonstop service to Europe since the early 1960s when the population was about 250,000.

Isolation, Isolation, Isolation......YYC is an isolated city in the middle of nowhere. Nearest bigger city is 428 miles to the west.

AUS is a stone's throw away from IAH and DFW, 140 miles and 190 miles, respectively.

Same reason why YOW has no airlines from Europe; close proximity to YUL. Put a city like YOW in the middle of nowhere such as YYC, and all the big boys from Europe would fly there as well.

Thenoflyzone

Longhornmaniac · Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 47):

Yes, FL's CUN flight arrives at the same time.

Cheers,
Cameron

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