Dear aviation enthusiasts , I would like to know what your thoughts. Which passenger Jets (Airliners in service) are highly "entertaining" for us - as Passangers. I'm talking about feeling the air, feeling the technology etc. All these newest Jets are a bit boring in this relation - sorry - they are perfect. But the feeling of flying, sitting in a machine... its almost gone. Let me start: I recently had an experience in a Fokker 100 on the rearmost seat (20A) . It was a 2.5h flight from Zurich to Kiev. In the beginning it was exciting - I love to fly. But later, it became almost unbearable. Well, a looking trough the window and almost only the engine was visible... This place (20A) was so loud, I had to ask for earplugs. I published a Youtube Video just to show you about what I'm talking. If you wach ist, turn on the sound to max and fasten seat belts - LOL !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94Bk5AZP5o

Later with a smartphone APP, I measured at cruising altitude a noise pressure of 93 dB (A). With the Earplugs, it was a pleasure   Now, it would be very interesting what kind of experience you have! Let us share our suggestions or recommendations about "entertaining" Airliners. I'm curios...

Ha! I remember back when I was a child and my dad would marvel about how much quieter the F100s were compared to the DC-9's they replaced on PIT-MDW...

When I worked for Pacific Express, we operated BAC1--11's. Now when they powered up for take off and you were in the rear, you could really feel the power, and the noise was unbelievable.

Quoting SRMD11 (Thread starter): Which passenger Jets (Airliners in service)

In my opinion:

747-400: An EZE-FRA afternoon takeoff in summer is a different experience altogether.

MD-11: A rocket

727: at MEX or LAP

The F-100 which I usually flew out of MEX felt woefully underpowered. The early A320s with the CFM engines were incredibly noisy at takeoff.

Anyway, I really love anything that flies that I manage to get on.

I flew MEX - IAH on Pan Am on a 707...that was noisy, also the original CP Air Dc8 taking off from Mex holy cow, only the concorde made more noise...

Inside the cabin AM md 83 on the back were torture on MEX-LAX

'TRB

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3): The early A320s with the CFM engines were incredibly noisy at takeoff.

There were many complaints about the early A320s because of the generated cabin-noise. I remember that some operators were unhappy because the cabins were louder than the ones on Boeing 727s. The problems were later resolved.

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 4): Inside the cabin AM md 83 on the back were torture on MEX-LAX

You survived
 

The nice aspect of aircraft like the Fokker 100 and other rear-engined aircraft is probably that the majority of the cabin is quiet (with the exception of the few rows in the aft).

I've never heard anything like the third row forward on the old DC-9. They should have issued hearing protection.

Or how bout the back row on the DC-9? The one with the window closed off because the engine was right there.

I love the noise of the engine when sitting next to it. And no problem on short hops. But 2.5 hours is a different story....

I love aircraft noise!

Quoting SRMD11 (Thread starter):

Some F100 have an aft door installed, were you sitting next that? I remember we used to fly a couple of those frames and the noise was unbearable. Flight attendants always felt ashamed to have to seat anyone next to it!

I remember as a kid I flew a F28 LGW-TLS on what I believe was AF operated by TAT. We sat last row with no window next to the engine. Man......still remember my mother complaining all flight and me too because I didn't have a window and I already had the aviation bug.

On another note, when I do a full thrust takeoff with the 737 I really enjoy the noise from the CFM's going from a slight whistle over in a light sawing noise. It really gives me the feeling were pushing em to the max.

Ok one more to finish off. 747-200 with JT9Ds taxiing past.......man that just makes my day.

Enjoy the sights,sounds and smells!

Quoting SRMD11 (Thread starter): I recently had an experience in a Fokker 100 on the rearmost seat (20A) . It was a 2.5h flight from Zurich to Kiev. In the beginning it was exciting - I love to fly. But later, it became almost unbearable.

This is a new generation growing up, who have not had the pleasure of flying in the rear seats of a:

- Aerospatiale Caravelle
- Douglas DC9 - one airline was forced to close the last 6x rows of seats (30 seats total) because of unacceptable noise levels in the rear cabin.
- BAC111 series
- BAe Trident various types
- F28-Mk1000 to Mk4000
- Tu-134
- B727-100 to 200

nor the rear cabin of the much missed DC8 series during a roaring hot and high take-off.
and the venerable B707 series aircraft and its long and low take-off.

The rear seats in a Fokker 100 with Rolls Royce Tay engines are a pleasure compared to any of the former rear-engined aircraft types.

Strewth! The lovely F-100 being accused of being noisy! All of them were RR-Tay turbofanned sweeties.

For fun, let's play the oldie card: "in my day.........."

From the inside with rear-mounted engines, let's see - early series BAC 1-11 with RR-Speys v. DC-9-10 with P & W JT8D's. I couldn't call the difference. Conversation was difficult/almost impossible almost anywhere in the cabin, whilst at the rear hearing oneself think was an achievement. Neither were the noisiest in my experience though.

Consider the HS Trident 3, now that could really loosen your earwax! Three rear-mounted RR-Speys AND an RB162 TurboJET. The three Speys themselves made a heck of a din. The RB162 was a hot & high use only device. I experienced it once. Oh my..... For comparison, IMO, the B727-100 was never at that particular race!

I have wondered from time to time what the early series Caravelles with their rear-mounted RR-Avon TurboJets sounded like on the inside. Anybody care to comment?

Many cabin crew must have suffered hearing damage through long exposure. I never heard of any compensation claims. Were they made / were they successful?

The OP also muses: "But the feeling of flying, sitting in a machine... its almost gone." OK, consider the HS Trident again:

1) my preference was for the rear-facing seats which definitely enhanced the feeling of flying 2) Trident was certified to engage reverse thrust at 6 feet above the runway (those landings were quite uncompromising in their feeling!) 3) Trident pioneered the ILS CAT III ("blind landing") which gave for eerie descents (at the time). On completion of a CAT III landing the cabin crew would hand out cards which could be surrendered for a CAT III gents tie or ladies scarf. I've got a load of those ties... somewhere. 4) Combination of 2) & 3) previous. 5) I wish I'd flown on the Trident before they clipped her wings and became the "ground gripper". She was designed for Mach 0.88, and could still do the rapid descents and fast turns. Many of the flight crew were ex-RAF pilots - go figure the results. Tridents - flights with feeling!!

Maybe the OP has read some of the many B757 fanposts on this forum. Generally good and fair reads from devotees, so if the OP hasn't already, he should engineer a power trip on a lightly loaded B757. It's not bad!

OK, fun over, back to mowing the lawn.

As a non-rev on CO I had my share of sitting in one of the last 3 rows on a DC-9. The standing joke was if you made a gate agent mad, you were likely to get 25E. Middle seat, last row. I didnt make the agt mad that evening, and he apologized for having to put me there, but I understood. Hey I got the last seat on the whole plane. It was DEN-IAH a little over 2 Hrs. When they pulled back the power after t/o it startled me, I thought we were doing an air-return because the drone of the engines changed. By the time we got to IAH I was glad to get off that plane, even tho the 9 is one of my favorites.

JD CRP

That's a 7000ft take off roll. You could have lifted an A380 in that distance.

I thought F100's were more agile than this  

Quoting SRMD11 (Thread starter): This place (20A) was so loud, I had to ask for earplugs. I published a Youtube Video just to show you about what I'm talking. If you wach ist, turn on the sound to max and fasten seat belts - LOL !

Fantastic video. SRMD11!! i;d be right there sitting next to you enjoying it too!

Late last month I had my second B717 flight (first beside the engine) and first F100 flight on QF Link services. I really enjoyed the whine on take off on the 717 but after an hour the noise was starting to give me a bad headache (being really tired didn't help also). Thankfully the flight was less then half full so I was able to move seats for a bit. The return flight was on an Alliance Airways F100 operating as QF Link. This time I decided to sit forward off the wing to avoid the engine noise but really wished during the cruise I was beside the engine again as it was so quiet - way more quiet then I was expecting! I really loved the F100 experience and really wish they were operating domestic flights here in New Zealand cause I would go out of my way to fly one every time. Everything from the cabin interior to the seats to the engine noise made the flight incredible. Returning home I was on my second to last ever NZ 744 flight. The sweet sounds of those engines on take off and landing will never grow old on me!

Quoting MD80 (Reply 5): Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):The early A320s with the CFM engines were incredibly noisy at takeoff. There were many complaints about the early A320s because of the generated cabin-noise. I remember that some operators were unhappy because the cabins were louder than the ones on Boeing 727s. The problems were later resolved.

I find that on the A320s the overhead bins shake like mad on landing. The noise is really awful.

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 13): That's a 7000ft take off roll. You could have lifted an A380 in that distance. I thought F100's were more agile than this

The Fokker F28 and Fokker 100 series aircraft do not have slats, so a longer take-off role.

As short-haul aircraft the wing is optimised for climb and descent, the aircraft has the famous rear-mounted speed brakes to aid short-haul performance.

View Large View Medium Photo © Stefan Sjogren - Stockholm Arlanda Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Andres Dallimonti

The F28 and the tail brake

View Large View Medium Photo © Ruud Brinks - Aerospray

View Large View Medium Photo © Dietmar Schreiber - VAP

Tail brake and reverse thrust, and coloured tail brake.

Seat 9D on a Piedmont Dash 8-100!

Quoting BSRadar (Reply 11): 1) my preference was for the rear-facing seats which definitely enhanced the feeling of flying 2) Trident was certified to engage reverse thrust at 6 feet above the runway (those landings were quite uncompromising in their feeling!) 3) Trident pioneered the ILS CAT III ("blind landing") which gave for eerie descents (at the time). On completion of a CAT III landing the cabin crew would hand out cards which could be surrendered for a CAT III gents tie or ladies scarf. I've got a load of those ties... somewhere. 4) Combination of 2) & 3) previous. 5) I wish I'd flown on the Trident before they clipped her wings and became the "ground gripper". She was designed for Mach 0.88, and could still do the rapid descents and fast turns. Many of the flight crew were ex-RAF pilots - go figure the results. Tridents - flights with feeling!!

Oh man, I will pay for one of those ties!

For noise nothing came close to sitting in the back of an EA 727 while doing a powerback from the gate. It was extremely loud and the back of the plane shook until the thrust reversers were stowed. If you screamed, nobody would hear you.

Two unforgettable moments:
In 1998 on a GRU-POA operated by a VASP 737-200.
I was seated right beside the engine, on an A seat. NOISY!!

But... an even noisier experience I had was in 2012 on a Delta MD-88, LGA-MCO flight, seated one row before the last.
The sound of the video got much lowered when uploaded it, don't know why. But still, I believe this experience might have been be pretty close to what you had with the F-100!! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXGIZjcnrKA

Try flying on a Fokker F28! It's an incredibly loud plane - even from the inside! And that's even if you sit halfway up the cabin!

I've read somewhere (I think it was an aircraft noise report for YVR) that the F28's noise footprint exceeds even that of a 737-200 and a DC-9. This is impressive for a small regional aircraft.

I remember I had a flight from MAD to BCN on IB and my seat was right next to the starboard engine in 2005. I love flying as much as everyone here, but the engine noise was too much. Lots of vibration/noise gave me a migraine for the rest of the day/night. Weird thing is: I enjoyed it. I was ecstatic when I learned my return flight was a A320 (nice and quiet).

Quoting airbuster (Reply 9): Some F100 have an aft door installed, were you sitting next that? I remember we used to fly a couple of those frames and the noise was unbearable. Flight attendants always felt ashamed to have to seat anyone next to it!

Hmmmm... I think there was no door. It was HB-JEV (Helvetic Airways).

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 13): That's a 7000ft take off roll. You could have lifted an A380 in that distance.

Oh yes. Indeed.

Quoting newhaven (Reply 14): Fantastic video. SRMD11!! i;d be right there sitting next to you enjoying it too!

Thanks! Helvetic Airways will fly these Fokker 100 until 2017. AFAIK, 3 of the 6 Jets are mostly in wetlease for SWISS.

The loudest flights I've experienced were all in the last few rows of aircraft with rear mounted engines. The DC-9, MD80 and Fokker 100 in particular. The 727, MD90 and 717 were/are louder than I would like, but never seemed as loud.

The 2 LOUDEST flights were miserable, but thankfully under 2 hours. The first was my first ever flight on an MD80, a Delta MD88 ATL-CVG. Back then they had a galley at the rear port door which sort of enclosed the last 2 or 3 rows and made it very loud. I continued on to Columbus and thankfully was able to move up on that segment. The other was an AA Fokker 100 from Leon, Mexico to DFW. Man that was loud! Those 2 flights I'll always remember for their extreme loud volume!

The most entertaining? Easy. Several great powerful take offs on 757s from places like Long Beach, Ft. Lauderdale and other places. Yeah, baby!  .

Cheers, Ralph

[Edited 2014-04-11 13:29:53]

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 2): When I worked for Pacific Express, we operated BAC1--11's. Now when they powered up for take off and you were in the rear, you could really feel the power, and the noise was unbelievable.

Bac1-11's were cray, i always enjoyed the weekly flight out of RTM 10 - 12 years ago by European air charter. It was like a pair of F16's taking off!

My nioseist ride was on a Dasj 8-100 from RTM to HAM, my first ever commercial flight but what a noise! I was glad to sit in the cockput upon landing in HAM (that was for 09-11 when that was still allowed anytime)

[Edited 2014-04-11 13:41:44]

I was on an F28 YHZ-YYT back in the mid-90s, seated at the window of the last row, #2 side and we did an RTO! Talk about intense.

After they sorted out the issue (engine trouble IIRC) we managed to get up to YYT before the fog hit. I remember we flew the Wabana approach at about 150 feet from Portugal Cove to the threshold, full flap with the motors screaming. The next (and final) flight in that day was an AC a320 which ended up running off the end of the runway.

i've only had a three mad dog flights. the first two were almost empty and i was up front (but still in Y) and i loved it.

then i got on a full flight and was a decent way back. i'd spent some time researching the beers at MEM before i got on board and the walk back to the toilet made me wonder how anyone could stand the noise.....i'd have preferred to walk!

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 17): Seat 9D on a Piedmont Dash 8-100!

... ANY seat on a Piedmont Dash-100 is a horrible place to be!  

I actually like the Crash 8. feels like flying. The J32 is even better.

I flew from Helsinki to Vienna and back in Austrian Arrows F100 some years ago. In the return flight I was sitting just in front of the engine, I like the way this those engines sound.

The Dash 8 is great too, flew -100 of Olympic Air from Milos to Athens last year, what a powerful takeoff & climb, I think my seat was on the very first row.

The noisiest aircraft I had the pleasure of flying on was a Northwest DC-9-10, seated 3 rows from the rear with the engines out of sync, and a constant VROOM VROOM VROOM!. The second noisiest was on a Continental 737-100, sitting just aft of the trailing edge of the wing, I am not just talking about engine noise! The whole plane rattled, squeaked, and vibrated, and this was just taxiing to the runway! This was probably the first time I ever doubted the integrity of an airframe on an airliner. We made it though, and the old girl flew on a few more years before CO retired the 100 series.

I love to hear the JT-8's, the DC-9's, 737 (100 and 200's) and 727's have the best sound to me, and the MD-80's are cool as well. My first trip on the MD-80 was memorable since I noticed how much quieter the plane was compared to a DC-9! My first flight on the A380, as well as the 787 were surprisingly quiet, I wonder if someday we will consider them noisy?

I never experienced the BAC-111, 707, or DC-8, the older planes had more "personality" than today's jetliners.

Most entertaining? For me it was a USAir Express Shorts 360, flying at 9,000 feet, un pressurized, paralleling I-85 as we flew from CLT-GSP, and watching cars pass us!!

I'm a fan of the JT9 personally. Love the growl!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4lLDTRe8-I

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 26): Back then they had a galley at the rear port door which sort of enclosed the last 2 or 3 rows and made it very loud.

Those last 3 rows behind the rear galley were Delta's "Nonrev section" - rows 36-38.
Row 36 had a decent view - I sat there just once.
Row 37 had a view of just the engine.
Row 38 had no window at all

But I was happy to get any seat - even with no view  

Holy cow ! I just remembered the BAC 111 .....what a torture chamber. I flew back in 1985 from MIA to MCO on Florida Express because PanAm had a strike...

I was 4 rows ahead of those speys.....man it was so noisy AND vibration....

Those were the days...!

TRB

Great stuff, SRMD11!

This reminds me of my first Fokker 100 flight ever. Back in 1996 I was thrilled to sit right next to the engine on an Air Inter F100 flight from CDG to LIS. The flight was 3 hours long and I truly enjoyed the first hour or so. By the time we started out descend to Lisbon, my head was spinning and my ears were bleeding!

Apart from the last couple of rows, any seat in a Fokker jet is an absolute delight with the sweet gentle sound of those RR Tay engines.

Generally I love the noise when flying. Heck, the sound of most spooling engines can even give me goosebumps.
If I have to choose a particular type that can drive my nuts I'd go with any turboprop on a flight longer than 90 minutes.

Oh man, I miss the 727's. Those were the first planes I have solid memories of, flying on Piedmont out of SYR as a kid. "Takeoff" just never quite feels like "TAKEOFF!!!" on all these newer planes. I loved that feeling of being pushed back in my seat by the acceleration and all other noises obliterated by the roar of the engines!

Quoting SAAFNAV (Reply 18): Oh man, I will pay for one of those ties!

OK, if I find one you've got the first option. How does a donation to the "Help for Heroes" charity figure to you? BTW: The tie will not make you a fashion icon!

My search for the ties will not start tomorrow - it's a rugby w/e - you're a Saffer - so mutual understanding here is a given.

FWIW: You're in Waterkloof - I stayed in Valhalla in Jan/Feb 2006 and managed a look around your perimeter. Not much happening. I think I remember a Dakota pottering around? Any busier these days?

Quoting SRMD11 (Thread starter): But the feeling of flying, sitting in a machine...

I loved the old DC-9s.. those really felt like machines. And the MD-80s too for that matter. Lots of engine noise, rattling from the interior, the smell of jet fuel. I also loved the old 737-200.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 29): i'd spent some time researching the beers at MEM before i got on board

Good man  

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 29): the walk back to the toilet made me wonder how anyone could stand the noise.....i'd have preferred to walk!

Oh I know, on my last MD-80 flight I was sitting towards the front of the cabin and thought that the noise was comparable to a 737 ... and then went to the lav. Walking into that wall of noise is quite something! I'm sure you "get used to it" if you sit back there, and would find it eerily quiet if you walk forward during the flight.

The same applies for the MD-90 and 717 but the noise is significantly less pronounced IMHO. The CRJ and ER4 are surprisingly quiet at the back for a rear-mounted airframe.

While on the subject, I love sitting at the front of the 717 (well row 4, J is off limits to me ). It is the quietest thing I've been on, quieter than the A380 (don't flame me).

I'm surprised no-one mentioned the IL-62 yet, few things are more noisy then 4 D-30's in a row giving full power!

http://youtu.be/gIAxmmM9PPw

Martijn

Wow that IL62 brings back memories of a flight in the 80s on CAAC. Will never forget that engine whine/screaming sound.

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 23): Hmmmm... I think there was no door.

Yes, the only thing worse than a "shrapnel seat" on a -100 is realizing that if the s%#t hits the fan, the nearest exits are overwing! Lots of hysterical people to have to climb over to get out!

Fortunately, the only time I ended up in a shrapnel seat was non-reving on a company -88 from PBI-ATL. I remember it because I didn't have my foam ear plugs with me and regretted it! I think the engine next to my ear was pretty high time.

Quoting BSRadar (Reply 39): OK, if I find one you've got the first option. How does a donation to the "Help for Heroes" charity figure to you? BTW: The tie will not make you a fashion icon! My search for the ties will not start tomorrow - it's a rugby w/e - you're a Saffer - so mutual understanding here is a given. FWIW: You're in Waterkloof - I stayed in Valhalla in Jan/Feb 2006 and managed a look around your perimeter. Not much happening. I think I remember a Dakota pottering around? Any busier these days?

Thanks! I'll gladly make a donation for their cause.

AFB Swartkop is close to Valhalla, they've a helicopter squadron and the museum flight.
Waterkloof is busier than that, but not by any modern standard. Currently 3 transport squadrons and on VVIP squadron.

Erich

Quoting MD80 (Reply 5): The nice aspect of aircraft like the Fokker 100 and other rear-engined aircraft is probably that the majority of the cabin is quiet (with the exception of the few rows in the aft).

Quoting factsonly (Reply 10): The rear seats in a Fokker 100 with Rolls Royce Tay engines are a pleasure compared to any of the former rear-engined aircraft types.

I often fly on KLM Fokker 70s, including twice last week. On one flight I was in the 2nd last row (only because it was the only available row with my preferred aisle seat). It wasn't unusually loud, and certainly much quieter than many aircraft of the past. Some of the loudest were the last few rows of the early 4-engine jets, especially on takeoff. The last rows of the 737-200 are also very loud on takeoff.

I still think the loudest ever for me was a DL 737-200 CVG-ORD in 1995...sat a few rows behind the engine exhaust...it pretty much made me deaf for the rest of the day.

I was looking forward to a similar experience on a NW DC-9-30 in 1997 from DTW to MSY...the only seat left was in the second to last row...but it wasn't too bad. Perhaps the aircraft had hush kits by that time.

Quoting SRMD11 (Thread starter): I recently had an experience in a Fokker 100 on the rearmost seat (20A) . It was a 2.5h flight from Zurich to Kiev. In the beginning it was exciting - I love to fly. But later, it became almost unbearable. Well, a looking trough the window and almost only the engine was visible... This place (20A) was so loud, I had to ask for earplugs.

The noise is why I avoided certain T-tails for years (Embraers were ok, but everything else.). Heck, my preference to avoid the noise was strong enough I stayed off AA longer than a should (not knowing the flights I would have taken were all 757/738).

Fly next to an engine for a few more hours than one can bear and it sets a preference for life. By preference, I mean avoid the chance of it happening again by spending money on other airlines.

It is one thing to be an aviation enthusiast, but its another to deal with the noise fatigue and have to be ready to work after the experience.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41): The CRJ and ER4 are surprisingly quiet at the back for a rear-mounted airframe.

Agreed, but I find the Embraers a bit quieter. I was in an E-135, closest seat to the engine, and had no trouble catching a nap.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41): and then went to the lav. Walking into that wall of noise is quite something! I'm sure you "get used to it" if you sit back there

One doesn't get used to noise. One gets fatigued, aggravated, or losses hearing. I know my sitting next to an MD-80 engine once cost AA (and DL) the option of my business for over 20 full fare ference to avoid sitting next to a beloved JT8D or other LOUD in the passenger compartment engine). In my case, it was the fatigue working the ten hours after the flight that was too much.

Lightsaber

Oh yeah the good ole F100.

Had my first flight on them last year just to experience a ride on one of these beauties and boy they did not dissapoint, I chose to sit just ahead of the engine next to the cowling, but still had a view of the wing.

As a bit of a shameless plug, here is a video I took of the takeoff in VIE bound for MXP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aih-MPnqHQY

The only strange thing I noticed on the F100, is that it had a tendency to oscilate during flight, I could feel the nose constantly pitching up and down which made me feel a bit queasy, but after a while it went away.

But overall it was a nice flight, and the F100 is a nice bird  

MIAspotter.