SA744
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LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:08 pm

Evening All
From October 2014 LH is removing A380 from JNB and replacing with 748i.
Apparently too expensive to operate into JNB, not surprised as they pay a fortune in parking and handling fees on A380.
Regards
SA744
 
jetblue1965
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
From October 2014 LH is removing A380 from JNB and replacing with 748i.
Apparently too expensive to operate into JNB, not surprised as they pay a fortune in parking and handling fees on A380.

For a J product perspective, isn't that a major upgrade instead ?
 
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Miami
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:23 pm

Extra A380...    Why not send it to LAX?!   
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Hendrik438
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:28 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 1):
For a J product perspective, isn't that a major upgrade instead ?

Well by then there is a pretty good chance that you have the new J product on the A380 as well. Two (DAIMB and DAIMK) have it already. DAIMA is in HAM for refurbishment and DAIML will get into service the next weeks. So in October 2/3 of the A380 should be refitted.
I assume cabin refurbishment might also be the reason why they take the A380 from that route in fall. I guess it will be back for the winter season. It was the same last year.
 
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MaxiAir
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:30 pm

Imho its more important, that they get two complete frames freed up! A380's are much more capital intensive than the 747's and one is unusable due to reconfig this year as well, so they need every frame!
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jfk777
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:48 pm

It could be that LH needs the large J class cabins of the 748 or A380 but not the large y class A380 cabin.
 
B747forever
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:54 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 2):
Extra A380...    Why not send it to LAX?!   

No thanks. Would much rather have the 748i on the route.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 2):
Extra A380... Why not send it to LAX?!

Not too sure you will see LH send the beast to LAX.

WIth all the Middle Eastern carriers starting service to LAX in the last few years (TK, SV, EK, EY and soon QR etc), European carriers should start feeling the pain pretty soon ! BA, LH, AF all operate double daily, and rely on connections to fill those planes. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

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legacyins
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:59 pm

SFO will be year round. This might be where it is going.
 
B747forever
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7):
WIth all the Middle Eastern carriers starting service to LAX in the last few years (TK, SV, EK, EY and soon QR etc), European carriers should start feeling the pain pretty soon ! BA, LH, AF all operate double daily, and rely on connections to fill those planes. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

Then you have DY that has added non stop service from ARN/CPH to LAX. Albeit, only 3-4 weekly from either city, I am sure it draws passengers that would otherwise connect via LHR/AMS/CDG/FRA.
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ua900
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:24 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 1):
For a J product perspective, isn't that a major upgrade instead ?

Until the retrofit is done, yes.

Quoting Miami (Reply 2):
Extra A380... Why not send it to LAX?!

J product is in high demand to/from LAX, can't send an A380 until J is fixed.

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 8):
SFO will be year round. This might be where it is going.

A much wiser choice. Old LH J isn't that great, but doesn't have to hide itself behind UA J. Goes to show that soft product still makes a big difference.
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airbazar
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:45 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Apparently too expensive to operate into JNB, not surprised as they pay a fortune in parking and handling fees on A380.

People keep saying that DXB is too much of a detour. I still maintain that EK is stealing a lot of customers from the Euro carriers in the EU-S.A. market.
 
cedarjet
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:33 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
Then you have DY that has added non stop service from ARN/CPH to LAX

And nonstop from OSL starting June 1, 2014; and from LGW starting July 2, 2014.
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Rishul93
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:41 am

 
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IrishAyes
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7):
Not too sure you will see LH send the beast to LAX.

WIth all the Middle Eastern carriers starting service to LAX in the last few years (TK, SV, EK, EY and soon QR etc), European carriers should start feeling the pain pretty soon ! BA, LH, AF all operate double daily, and rely on connections to fill those planes. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

There are still plenty of compelling reasons for LH to deploy the A380 to LAX.

Even with an enhanced level of competition, not all of LAX-FRA traffic is headed to the Middle East. Plenty of it is O&D, and a large portion is also headed to points all over continental Europe, North Africa and Central Asia. FRA is a human sorting system, and still plays a vital role as a mass, intercontinental connecting hub all over the world that simply isn't replaced by a few hubs in the Middle East that offer some overlap. The LAX-IKA market alone is heavily loyal towards Lufthansa.

Throw in connections for being a Star Alliance hub, and LAX can easily fill an A380 for LH.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:14 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7):
BA, LH, AF all operate double daily, and rely on connections to fill those planes. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

I'll tell you how it develops. With all those planes being placed in the "for sale" market. It was ridiculous to buy those silly planes. They never needed them in the first place.
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Q
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:27 am

Why a such stupid fees too expensive for? Any aircraft wheels touch the ground! Jetways just move it to touch fuselage all aircraft. Fuel truck put fuel tanks all aircraft. WHAT THE BIG DIFFERENT FEES FOR WHAT? It sounds dumb people managements at JNB!   


Aren't we charge fees for $1.00 small cars between for $5.00 Big SUV on tollway fees each booth? 737-300 to Airbus 380 fees? It is just a car and it's just an aircraft. What's wrong? Huh?


Q
 
cx828
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:58 am

May be they can use the 380 to HKG insttead of 748i
 
Robbie86
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:26 am

What do you think of the chances of HND, ICN or ORD beeing a suitable destination for the 380?
 
Unflug
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:27 am

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Apparently too expensive to operate into JNB, not surprised as they pay a fortune in parking and handling fees on A380.

No: the most expensive destination could be the most profitable at the same time. Lufthansa sends the A380 to destinations where they can earn the most money with it, as they do with all other aircraft types they operate. These most profitable destinations change over time and over the year. If Lufthansa wasn't so good at this game they would not be able to make profits.
 
yakima
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:38 am

This will be the first 748i to JNB, right?
 
laca773
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:17 am

It seems like some on here don't understand why LH utilizes the A380 and 748 in different markets. It's been made clear, LH uses the 748s in markets where there is a higher premium demand for P and J seats while the A380 is used in markets where there is a markedly larger demand for leisure seats versus premium. That's why you see FRA-SFO being flown with a A380 and LAX receives the 748 (will be 2x during the Summer season). They are very different markets. SFO is a much more leisure market while LAX sees higher demand in the business and premium markets. I think this is why we see LH also send the 748 to HKG as well. Perhaps JNB isn't requiring the demand of a much larger Y cabin, hence the switch to a more premium capacity 748.
 
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cv990Coronado
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:32 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
People keep saying that DXB is too much of a detour. I still maintain that EK is stealing a lot of customers from the Euro carriers in the EU-S.A. market.

I agree the Y market is very price sensitive and the ME3 and TK are taking a bigger share ex SA. The leisure J will often go via the Gulf but there is more resistance will people travelling on business trips. The flat beds on the 748 will be similar to the beds on SAA's 346's whereas now the LH 388 J product is less comfortable than SAA J seat.
Great news I might get a chance to fly on the 748. I have been on all the others 747 models and she is still my favourite aircraft.
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JimJupiter
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:32 am

Quoting yakima (Reply 20):
This will be the first 748i to JNB, right?


Since LH are the only operator offering scheduled service on the 748I so far - I'd think so.
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:53 am

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
rom October 2014 LH is removing A380 from JNB and replacing with 748i.
Apparently too expensive to operate into JNB, not surprised as they pay a fortune in parking and handling fees on A380.

Is this a sourced fact or your opinion, hence "apparently"?
I ask, because it would make more sense to put it down to seasonal variation in demand. In the southern winter demand falls off. Lufthansa has the fleet to modify supply by downguaging to the B748 and the A380 can be deployed elsewhere.

t would seem the A380 is back on the route for the southern summer, so I'm beginning to think this is just another case of A380 bashing.  
Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
No thanks. Would much rather have the 748i on the route.

Why is that? Is the A380 somehow inferior to the B748 for this particular route, or is it based on your personal experience of flying on the route, or just a bit of fanboyism..?  
Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
I'll tell you how it develops. With all those planes being placed in the "for sale" market. It was ridiculous to buy those silly planes. They never needed them in the first place.

Yeah, rrrrrright...   

Rgds
Flying around India
 
330lover
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:09 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 23):
Since LH are the only operator offering scheduled service on the 748I so far - I'd think so.

Was my first though as well, but then again, there are other operators, be it freighters, who might send the 748 to JNB.
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SKAirbus
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:12 am

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 13):
Most likely FRA-DEL from the Winter Schedule.

Makes sense... Now that the Indian government have stopped their ill thought out, frankly stupid embargo of the A380, I am pretty sure there is a lot of demand for it to India.
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JimJupiter
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:12 am

Quoting 330lover (Reply 25):
Was my first though as well, but then again, there are other operators, be it freighters, who might send the 748 to JNB.


Ah. I thought you were referring to the -I (passenger version) explicitly. No idea about the freighter operators.
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
JayBCNLON
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:57 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):

No thanks. Would much rather have the 748i on the route.

No surprise as this comment is coming from "B747forever" .... I take it this opinion is solely based on emotion..

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
With all those planes being placed in the "for sale" market. It was ridiculous to buy those silly planes. They never needed them in the first place.

Another very emotional post ... "silly planes". Clearly your comment is inappropriate for this forum. Or can you provide a link for ALL of those planes "being placed in the "for sale" market"?

Obviously LH need the A380 more than the B748i as they have just decided to pull it off of a route that parks the aircraft unutilized for 12 hours in Africa.
 
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cv990Coronado
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:27 am

I think this is just a Winter/ Summer change. As LH have the flexibility of the 388/748. They can use the 388 in JNB in the Northern winter when JNB needs it and use the 388 in the Northern summer on other routes when JNB has less demand.
BA used to do a similar thing with CPTLON when they used the 772 in the Northern Summer and the 744 in the Northern winter. Eventually the 772 was too small but it did give them the flexibility to keep the route viable.
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Rara
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:21 pm

I agree, this is just normal rotation, nothing more to it.

LH had previously removed the A380 from the PEK route, which had been A380 for many years. Now the 380 is back and it's pulled from NRT instead, another long-established A380 route. JNB is next - and it will be back for sure.
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tommy1808
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:50 pm

Quoting cv990coronado (Reply 29):
I think this is just a Winter/ Summer change. As LH have the flexibility of the 388/748

  

The LH 748i in here is always described as premium heavy. Another way of looking at it is that the 748i/A388 duo offers pretty much the same Premium Cabin (=pretty much season independent business traveler demand) with 2 sizes of Y-Class (=pretty season dependent leisure traveler demand). This gives LH a lot of peak-season/off-season flexibility and is probably the very reason why they have them in the fleet. Not having something between A346 and A388.

3 out of 5 airlines that did order the Pax version of the 747-8 also have the A388, and at same or very similar qtys (LH 19:14, KE 10:10, UN 4:4). For W3 that A388 might simply be too big, now only CA has to order the big bird.

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ZK-NBT
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:51 pm

Quoting cv990coronado (Reply 29):
. They can use the 388 in JNB in the Northern winter when JNB needs it and use the 388 in the Northern summer on other routes when JNB has less demand.

But if its pulled in October thats the Northern winter when I'd expect loads to be higher to JNB where it is summer.

I'm guessing it will be back at some stage, but with an aircraft out for refitting and India allowing A380s i'm thinking this decision has something to do with that, most likely A380s to India IMO.
 
dalca
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:00 pm

In response to post 30, the A380 doesnt fly to NRT anymore because LH now flies to HND directly ex FRA whilst NRT is served in combination with KIX.
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:14 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 32):
But if its pulled in October thats the Northern winter when I'd expect loads to be higher to JNB where it is summer.

I have a personal interest in this because I am booked on LH572 and 573 on November 14th and 23rd.

My seat allocation and the map have been changed, so I presume it is the new configuration.

But it is still definitely showing as A380 operated, which still makes me believe the change to B748 is either a seasonal change OR a change to accommodate the cabin reconfiguration work.

Rgds
Flying around India
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:25 pm

Quoting JayBCNLON (Reply 28):
Obviously LH need the A380 more than the B748i as they have just decided to pull it off of a route that parks the aircraft unutilized for 12 hours in Africa.

There's no other way to oeprate that route, any other timing would either violate the curfews at FRA or lose out to connecting traffic at both Ends, to and from.
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galleypower
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:21 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Evening All
From October 2014 LH is removing A380 from JNB and replacing with 748i.
Apparently too expensive to operate into JNB, not surprised as they pay a fortune in parking and handling fees on A380.
Regards
SA744

Could you specify your source?

Nowbody at work seems to know anything about it, well, doesn´t mean an thing. However, I wouldn´t know any destination that would need an A380 during winter BUT JNB, thats the very peak season for this destination, loadfactor year round is very good, but yiels very low. Would only make sense if destinations are traded between B748 and A380. DEL will be new in winter, but aircraft is available. Probably just a temporary thing due to cabin upgrades, like last winter. besides, no a/c change in reservation system so far. And, more important, no rumors whatsoever!! Should some come up, I´ll let you know.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting JayBCNLON (Reply 28):
Another very emotional post ... "silly planes". Clearly your comment is inappropriate for this forum. Or can you provide a link for ALL of those planes "being placed in the "for sale" market"?

If you're going to start going around telling people their comments are inappropriate because they are emotional, than you better have a LOT of time to kill...

Quoting JayBCNLON (Reply 28):
No surprise as this comment is coming from "B747forever" .... I take it this opinion is solely based on emotion..

And you're comment is based on opinion. What's your point?
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:56 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7):
BA, LH, AF all operate double daily, and rely on connections to fill those planes. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

I'll tell you how it develops. With all those planes being placed in the "for sale" market. It was ridiculous to buy those silly planes. They never needed them in the first place.

I'm curious how you're going to back this up. If the airlines can fill the planes with connections and are satisfied with what they get out of it, then the decision to buy the planes was not "silly".
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
JayBCNLON
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 38):
I'm curious how you're going to back this up. If the airlines can fill the planes with connections and are satisfied with what they get out of it, then the decision to buy the planes was not "silly".

So you did get my point  
 
andz
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting Q (Reply 16):
Why a such stupid fees too expensive for? Any aircraft wheels touch the ground! Jetways just move it to touch fuselage all aircraft. Fuel truck put fuel tanks all aircraft. WHAT THE BIG DIFFERENT FEES FOR WHAT? It sounds dumb people managements at JNB!


Aren't we charge fees for $1.00 small cars between for $5.00 Big SUV on tollway fees each booth? 737-300 to Airbus 380 fees? It is just a car and it's just an aircraft. What's wrong? Huh?

Would you care to explain this in English?
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting JayBCNLON (Reply 39):

I got your point on that one, yes!  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
SelseyBill
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
I'll tell you how it develops. With all those planes being placed in the "for sale" market. It was ridiculous to buy those silly planes. They never needed them in the first place

Speaking as someone relatively new to the aviation business sector who visits this site to expand his knowledge about it; it is always good to read such well informed and useful posts........
 
Aircellist
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:33 pm

I've had the surprise of seeing on either FR24 and Flightaware that LH's FRA-YUL flight is on an A380 these days!
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Hendrik438
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:51 pm

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 43):
I've had the surprise of seeing on either FR24 and Flightaware that LH's FRA-YUL flight is on an A380 these days!

FRA-YUL on LH metal only starts in June with a 333/343 mix  . Right now as all the time there is only the daily AC 77W on that route.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:59 pm

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 43):

I've had the surprise of seeing on either FR24 and Flightaware that LH's FRA-YUL flight is on an A380 these days!

Actually what you saw was flight 463 (MIA-FRA) that diverted to YUL on April 16th.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
Aircellist
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:48 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 45):

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 43):

I've had the surprise of seeing on either FR24 and Flightaware that LH's FRA-YUL flight is on an A380 these days!

Actually what you saw was flight 463 (MIA-FRA) that diverted to YUL on April 16th.

OK, thanks, that's it.  

It was quite a surprise!
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PEK777
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:04 pm

Not all that surprising. The markets have shown the A380 program to be a dismal failure, and the big twins are the way of the future.
 
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zeke
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:05 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):

This could a seasonal adjustment, not unusual for JNB.
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tim73
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RE: LH Removing A380 From JNB Route

Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 47):
Not all that surprising. The markets have shown the A380 program to be a dismal failure, and the big twins are the way of the future.

Dismal failure?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/4f71ba403088a09858223d85425f4587.png

You see that? Every single year more orders since 2001. Obviously you Boeing fanboys are just unable to accept the fact Airbus is taking over the big quad planes.

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos