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USAirALB
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AA And The 787

Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:03 pm

I'd like to see AA replace the majority of their CDG and MAD routes that are currently 763s with 787s first, which is precisely what I believe they will do.
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777Jet
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AA And The 787

Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:32 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 17):
If QF go direct SYD-DFW-SYD, could AA open DFW-BNE-DFW? And what about Melbourne? Enough of a potential market there for an AA 787 service from DFW?
QF could only do that with the 388 - I'm not sure but they might even need the HGW 388 to do DFW-SYD. If so, that would increase capacity on the route. Perhaps QF could do daily SYD-DFW-SYD with the 388 whilst AA does 4 or so weekly DFW-MEL & DFW-BNE with the 787? Maybe there is a big enough market to fly daily to all 3 cities? Too bad the 744ER doesn't have slightly longer legs to make DFW-SYD without significant penalties or I'm sure QF would already be doing that.

[Edited 2014-04-20 15:34:16]
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MesaFlyGuy
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AA And The 787

Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:26 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 49):
And LAX, which is where AA focuses the majority of its Hawai'i capacity.

Right, thanks!  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
jfk777
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AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:11 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 25):
Are you sure they didn't cancel the 787 orders for pending A350 order?

Why would AA cancel 787-8 and -9 for a one sized A360-900, the A350-1000 size is the 777. The A350-800 probably will not be built for years as the -1000 is next. Makes sense to A350 and 787 ordersm , maybe get some 787-10's.
 
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Boeing778X
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AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:24 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 25):
Are you sure they didn't cancel the 787 orders for pending A350 order?

Don't see why they would, seeing that any A350 making it to AA was probably a US Airways bound jet originally.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 53):
A350-800 probably will not be built for years as the -1000 is next

The A350-800 runs the risk of not being built at all. 34 orders left is pretty low, and a lot of conversions are still taking place. The A358 may be the next 783.
I wouldn't put money on an A35J order anytime soon as well. That's what the 77Ws are for.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
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American 767
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 23):
I suspect that, much like the DC10 nearly 14 years ago, the Hawaii routes will be some of the very last, if not the very last, to see the 767.

And likewise, much like the 727 12 years ago, the domestic routes out of MIA will be some of the last routes to see the domestic 757 within mainland.
Ben Soriano
 
flyinghippo
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:08 pm

Quoting cjpmaestro (Reply 35):
Speaking of PHL - could they use the 787 on the long overdue PHL - Asia route?

Given the relatively small presence in Asia, and recent news about making LAX an APAC hub, I think PHL will have to wait for a direct flight to Asia

Quoting commavia (Reply 38):
I think a PHL-NRT flight is a matter of when, not if, given AA's JV with JAL and now the huge AA hub in PHL that provides extensive connectivity throughout the eastern U.S. The 787 seems like an appropriate fit for the market.

I can see PHL being a hub for eastern US to Europe. All Asian traffic from the eastern US will be routed via ORD, JFK, and DFW.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 2):
Given AA will receive 42 787s, they should have a lot of flexibility to start a lot of APAC routes from LAX.

SYD
AKL
PEK
CAN
HKG - During off peak season?
HND/NRT
KIX
NGO
TPE
ICN
PVG

Just for starters

For "starters", only 2 of those exist today (NRT and PVG). So you're calling for a 500% expansion?

And let's rank them by incumbents :

Already flying : NRT, PVG
totally wide open : KIX, NGO
1 "friendly" competitor : HKG (but 4x daily)
1 JBA but 3 other competitors : SYD
1 competitor : PEK, CAN, AKL
2 competitors : TPE, HND
3 competitors : ICN

787 is great to explore new destinations, but AA needs to be careful not falling into the same trap as HA.
 
oc2dc
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:58 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 8):
The JFK (LGA) pilot base is being trained first, with training beginning May/June. JFK pilots have been told the first 787 route will be JFK-CDG in Jan 2015.

I'm slightly surprised by the choice of a JFK base right off the bat. I would have thought LAX would have needed the planes on LAX-GRU/PVG. However, I understand you would need multiple frames for a LAX base. With JFK, you can use one frame to do JFK-CDG. Perhaps it is better use of the aircraft as they first come on line.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
tortugamon
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 58):
I'm slightly surprised by the choice of a JFK base right off the bat. I would have thought LAX would have needed the planes on LAX-GRU/PVG.

NYC is a premium heavy market as well and the 787s will probably be configured similarly. Also, I could see the 787 as a product differentiator in a market with a lot of competition while LAX will already have a significant UA 787 presence. By launching at JFK and going to CDG with their first route we can see that they are aiming to take share from DL/SkyTeam and it will be interesting to see if their follow on routes are similarly targeted.

tortugamon
 
flyinghippo
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:37 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 57):
So you're calling for a 500% expansion

No - of course not - I'm suggesting the cities that AA can consider using their new 788/789s on.

NRT, PVG - 788 can be extra frequency or used during low seasons
KIX, NGO - KIX might be a good place to start
HKG - I can see AA start their own metal on this route, but this might be the toughest one given CX's dominance
SYD - Given QF's recent troubles, AA might have a chance
PEK, CAN - Might be low yield, but given the O&D between LAX and these two cities, might work
TPE - For OW customers, flying to TPE either needs to go via HKG or NRT from the US - AA can offer a direct flight for OW customers
 
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DocLightning
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 14):

Sounds reasonable, BUT is there enough traffic, at a reasonable fare, to make it viable? IMHO there is not enough, but that's just an opinion.


In a high-premium configuration, the 788 can seat ~180. That's bound to be a high-premium route. If they can't make it work on a 788, then no plane can make it work. And remember, traffic from DFW to SYD might be originating at, say, JFK and BOS and other East Coast origins. I would imagine that it can be done with a 788.
-Doc Lightning-

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ATA L1011
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting 777stl (Reply 37):
The youngest tranche of 763s is only 13-14 years old, they could conceivably be around another 15 years.

Actually the youngest batch is only 10.5 to 11 years old, with N350AN being the last delivered on 8-29-03  
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
jetblue1965
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 60):
KIX, NGO - KIX might be a good place to start

KIX is exactly the place you *shouldn't* be starting.

To north america, only UA could sustain SFO (and some token tag-on service by CI). AC failed from YVR. DL failed from DTW. I think AA failed from DFW.

There are a lot more pressing gaping holes to fill before KIX needs to be reconsidered.
 
777STL
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:24 pm

Quoting ATA L1011 (Reply 62):
Actually the youngest batch is only 10.5 to 11 years old, with N350AN being the last delivered on 8-29-03

Of course, it wouldn’t a.net if someone wasn’t willing to split hairs with you over something trivial. I thought they were delivered in 2001, not 2003. Whatever.
PHX based
 
jetblue1965
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RE: AA And The 787

Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting 777stl (Reply 64):

More like splitting the atom =p
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: AA And The 787

Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:56 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 63):
To north america, only UA could sustain SFO (and some token tag-on service by CI). AC failed from YVR. DL failed from DTW. I think AA failed from DFW.

JL flew it for a while - KIX-LAX. Don't know when it ended. it was served by a 744 - I remember the flight well when I was flying in about '95 and '96.
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: AA And The 787

Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:42 am

what about ORD-HKG???
 
HKG212
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RE: AA And The 787

Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:11 am

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 58):
I'm slightly surprised by the choice of a JFK base right off the bat. I would have thought LAX would have needed the planes on LAX-GRU/PVG.

Why not start some Asian services from JFK? I assume for hub traffic they will continue to rely on CX for HKG and JL for NRT services. But after the debacle of the HND service, would be great to see AA again serve some of its alleged corporate clients in NYC with direct service to ICN, PVG, PEK, and yes, maybe HND again (assuming they can get the kind of landing slots foreign carriers seem to be scoring easily these days...)
 
Dtw757
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RE: AA And The 787

Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:17 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 25):
Are you sure they didn't cancel the 787 orders for pending A350 order?

They've already taken delivery of the 787 simulator in Dallas
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
jetblue1965
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RE: AA And The 787

Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:30 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 66):
JL flew it for a while - KIX-LAX. Don't know when it ended. it was served by a 744 - I remember the flight well when I was flying in about '95 and '96.

A timetable of JAL from 2000 shows KIX-LAX still being operated, daily 744, but I can't find the info of when it got canned.

It is curious why ANA didn't step in to fill the gap when JAL exited.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA And The 787

Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 23):
I would regard domestic fam flights as a virtual certainty whether the initial base was JFK or DFW, just like with the 777s 15 years ago (I remember right after EIS in mid-1999 seeing one parked at the terminal in SFO having just arrived from ORD).

Considering that UA was flying ORD-IAH with its 787s for a time, I expect that AA will also do some domestic flying, before the 787 is switched to international routes. If the first 787 base is DFW, then AA could schedule the planes to any of the other hubs. If the first base is JFK, I would suspect that the flying will be to MIA and DFW. I don't think they can put the 787s on trans-con routes, unless they are be configured for 3 classes.
 
Dtw757
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RE: AA And The 787

Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:31 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 71):
Considering that UA was flying ORD-IAH with its 787s for a time, I expect that AA will also do some domestic flying, before the 787 is switched to international routes

I half expected AA to do that with the 77W in the beginning but that was not the case. They went straight to international routes.
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ckfred
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RE: AA And The 787

Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 72):
I half expected AA to do that with the 77W in the beginning but that was not the case. They went straight to international routes.

But, by the time AA got its first 777 (early 1999 IIRC), the 777 had been in service nearly 4 years, and the 777 hadn't teething problems like the 787 has suffered.

AA may want to get take a couple of months either with domestic routes are perhaps flying to LHR during the slow season before it starts to work longer routes to stations where AA's presence is more limited.
 
pasu129
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RE: AA And The 787

Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:53 pm

Will AA install new 763 type seats or 77W type seats or 772 type seats on their 787?
Viva Las Vegas
 
flyinghippo
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RE: AA And The 787

Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 72):
I half expected AA to do that with the 77W in the beginning but that was not the case. They went straight to international routes.

AA has had plenty of experience flying 77Es, since they're essentially the same plane from a pilot's perspective, that made sense. 787s will be different as it is a brand new type for AA.

When 789 arrives, I would expect AA to put them on international routes just like they did with 77Ws.
 
pasu129
Posts: 504
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RE: AA And The 787

Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:00 pm

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 75):
When 789 arrives, I would expect AA to put them on international routes just like they did with 77Ws.

Here's a wishful thinking for AA to put 789 on LAX HKG!   
Viva Las Vegas
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26409
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RE: AA And The 787

Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 74):
Will AA install new 763 type seats or 77W type seats or 772 type seats on their 787?

It will have the 772 seats in, possibly a modified layout to accommodate the narrower cabin (or they can just have fairly narrow aisles instead).
a.
 
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psa1011
Posts: 495
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RE: AA And The 787

Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 9):

Is NZ adding a second AKL-SFO?
 
uberflieger
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RE: AA And The 787

Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:26 am

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 8):
the first 787 route will be JFK-CDG in Jan 2015

JFK-CDG/ZRH/MXP all are premium heavy markets and perfect for American's 788 with a premium heavy layout. A real coup would be if American replaced EC on JFK-ORY. The 788 seems to be the right plane to shake things up  
 
zkncj
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RE: AA And The 787

Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:34 am

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 78):
Is NZ adding a second AKL-SFO?

Yup - the next Northern Winter, the flight will become 10x weekly up from the current 7x weekly. It will be 6x weekly 77W and 4x weekly 772
 
runway23
Posts: 2349
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RE: AA And The 787

Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:46 am

There were some rumors a couple of months ago that the 788 fleet would have two classes and the 789 fleet would have a small F cabin.

Is this still the plan or has AA now decided that the 77W will be the only aircraft in its fleet with an international First Class cabin.
 
jumpjets
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RE: AA And The 787

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:37 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 81):
There were some rumors a couple of months ago that the 788 fleet would have two classes and the 789 fleet would have a small F cabin.

This would be consistent with the expected BA route [if we equate the AA main cabin extra with BAs Y+] and given the TATL JBA it would be good if the two main players had a consistent standard of service.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
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RE: AA And The 787

Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:00 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 81):
There were some rumors a couple of months ago that the 788 fleet would have two classes and the 789 fleet would have a small F cabin.

Is this still the plan or has AA now decided that the 77W will be the only aircraft in its fleet with an international First Class cabin.

I don’t think anything regarding cabin layouts or classes of service for the 787 has been publicly announced.
PHX based
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: AA And The 787

Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:34 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 15):
If AA did DFW-AKL it would take balls and I'm sure it would be low down on the list

Don't forget the rotation could easily be DFW-AKL-MEL-AKL-DFW. It would complement the QF service in/out of DFW
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1259
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RE: AA And The 787

Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:55 am

Quoting 777stl (Reply 83):
I don’t think anything regarding cabin layouts or classes of service for the 787 has been publicly announced.

No public announcement, but strong indications the 787 will get the new 772 J seat. (The seat was designed with both airframes in mind.)

[Edited 2014-04-26 18:58:01]
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1302
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RE: AA And The 787

Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 84):
Don't forget the rotation could easily be DFW-AKL-MEL-AKL-DFW. It would complement the QF service in/out of DFW


How hard would it be for AA to be approved for that Trans-Tasman service? Without it, that MEL tag wouldn't work.....they wouldn't fly it for a handful of through passengers.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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nascarnut
Posts: 308
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:37 am

US carriers already have fifth freedom rights between NZ and Australia.
Continental used to operate twice daily between NZ and Australia while United operated once per day.
Not sure if they were airline spcific otherwise I dont see why AA couldn't pick up those unused rights.
 
behramjee
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:17 am

With the growth of Nigeria's economy being now the largest in Africa, there should be a case for AA to seriously consider operating at least 4 weekly nonstop MIA-LOS services using a B788 as via MIA it can connect the whole of USA without having the need to back track.

B788s are too small to economically fly LAX-Asia nonstop as the flying distance is longer hence it requires a higher break even S/F versus using it on shorter markets with lower volume demand such as DFW-EU + JFK-EU + selected MIA-LATAM services. The B789 is rightly sized for AA's LAX trans-pacific services + selected JFK-EU routes that see demand worthy of a B777 year round.

Question...can the B789 operate nonstop without a payload penalty MIA-HKG-MIA? I know it can do MIA-NRT but HKG seems to be a bit of a stretch?
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:33 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 88):
but HKG seems to be a bit of a stretch?

Quite a stretch.... about 800nm further than JFK-HKG which at 16 hrs. is about max passenger load.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
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RE: AA And The 787

Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:24 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 84):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 15):
If AA did DFW-AKL it would take balls and I'm sure it would be low down on the list

Don't forget the rotation could easily be DFW-AKL-MEL-AKL-DFW. It would complement the QF service in/out of DFW

It sure could! MEL would probably make the most sense as far as Australian destinations would go added onto a DFW-AKL flight.
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