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b747400erf
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:48 am

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 32):
EK is currently operation 77F's into MEX from Europe and the US.

What flights? I don't see them anywhere. Also there are different immigration rules for passenger and cargo flights. So that comparison is not the same.
 
ReinerS
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:07 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:40 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 50):
What flights? I don't see them anywhere. Also there are different immigration rules for passenger and cargo flights. So that comparison is not the same.

As i said in Reply 41 the cargo operations begin from August.
Have been on the North Korean Aviation Tour 2015. Next: Iran Aviation Tour 2016!
 
wzafar
Posts: 293
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:24 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 49):

Those planes will be retired soon so what's the point?

If those planes are technically capable of operating such a route I don't know. Someone else will surely respond
 
airplanedaj
Posts: 205
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 25):

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the problem in MEX is the engine-out performance at the altitude, right? If so, why couldn't EK just use one of their A345s? Would it not have enough range and engine-down performance?
Quoting TC957 (Reply 30):

Could EK start MEX with their A345's then if the 77L can't op this route non-stop ?

Boeing 744, I think that you are on the right track, but a little too specific. The primary reason is the Density Altitude in MEX is too high. This largely impacts the take-off roll, as an A340/B777/B747 cannot carry a decent passenger/cargo load and enough fuel to make DXB and still make it off the ground. The A340 may be EK's best bet to make it non-stop (least payload penalty), but it wouldn't be profitable as a nonstop; just ask SQ or TG.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:08 am

Quoting FF22DXB (Reply 48):
On the other hand, in the last couple of years I have seen the increase of Mexican tourists in the UAE, specifically in Dubai. A lot of them combine their trips/tours of the region (Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, India) with a stop in Dubai. Some tour operators in Dubai have actually hired Mexicans as tour guides.

I am not saying there is a big market to make this flight work, but there is something.

How many of them are willing to pay last minute/fully-flexible Y class fares or J- or F-class fares? There will be some wealthy Mexican tourists who would be willing to fork out a few thousands of dollars per passenger to visit the Middle East flying EK or whoever nonstop. A few. And it is not like they are going to Miami... how often do you expect them to do this? Once every 3-4 years? That would be too much IMHO. I mean, after you visit the United Arab Emirates as a tourist once, how many more times do you need or want to go back, absent business reasons, if you live in Mexico?
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
Caryjack
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 1):
Even the 777-200LR will not be able to make MEX-DXB because of the high elevation of MEX. They would have to go via Europe or somewhere in N.A.

I don't think this is their business plan. It seems to me that everything evolves around Dubai. Just looking at their route map I see very few routes that are not non stop to Dubai (EZE, and New Zealand for example).

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 4):
Well, maybe a stopover in Cancun back to Dubai would be the answer...

Maybe SCL - GIG - DXB but I can't see EK's ULH airliners just stopping off for fuel.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 5):
I think these are the type of routes where the 778 will shine. Basically linking the entire Western half of the Americas and the Middle East.

This sounds about right but SEA has the 77W and LAX the A-380. The B-77X fits in with how I see EK's business plan....But are they even on order?

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 8):
Then when the 778s come on board they can fly these routes with less restrictions/more cargo for more profit. I don't really see the 778 necessarily opening new routes for the ME3, rather just making existing routes more profitable.

Isn't this what we're on about, new routes.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 13):
The 778 is the shorter of the two new planned 77Xs and has the longer range. The 778 is between the size of the current 772 & 773 whereas the 779 is longer than the 773. I'd call the 778 a 77L on steroids and the 779 a 77W on steroids.
Sounds about right to me.

[quote=tortugamon,reply=27]Very few 77L operators are in 10-abreast (only 2 come to mind)

I'm sure EK is one of them.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 29):
I agree that conceptually the 778 is the long range shrink and therefore it is conceptually similar to the 77L.

Actually a stretch of the 772 but we'll see how it turns out.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 30):
Could EK start MEX with their A345's then if the 77L can't op this route non-stop ?

The 77L is more capable in all ways then the 345. EK could start MEX with an A-380.
Thanks,  
Cary
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:59 am

Would be interesting, but if Mexico does not grant 5th freedom, this explains why EK did not fly to MEX so far. It is just the largest metro area in the World without EK service.

As for South America, it would be great to see BOG, LIM and SCL being added to the network, as well as a potential 1-stop flight in Africa continuing to Brazil. With the new airport set up in Brazil, i do not rule out more flights to GIG or GRU. Flew two times with EK the GIG-DXB-GIG route (last one this weekend) recently and both times the flights were 100% full.
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Caryjack
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 31):
I can see though GIG getting a dedicated flight (currently it is flown DXB-GIG-EZE), and getting a direct flight DXB-EZE continuing to SCL. That would be an interesting move.

Are you suggesting nonstop DBX-EZE with direct service to SCL...sounds good.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 38):
Says who, His Highness the Sheikh? Am i the only one who thinks EK has little to no business in MEX, as far as passenger flights are concerned?

Could be. I thought that MEX was the biggest city in the world.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 38):
Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 37):
I was hoping TK would beat Emirates to Mexico and other Latin American markets.

They will. The economics for TK is much better than for EK.

I'm not familiar with TK but which Latin American markets has TK beat EK into? EK's route map shows them into GRU, GIG and EZE plus cargo to Quito and Campinas.

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 32):
EK is currently operation 77F's into MEX from Europe and the US.

I don't see it on their route map (March issue of Open Skies).

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 38):
Also, what benefits does EK bring to a Mexican traveller in terms of connections? Seems to me the Far East is better served via AM to NRT and PVG, and Europe/Africa etc better served via the European hubs.

EK offers the Middle East, the east coast of Africa, South Africa and India.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 55):
The 77L is more capable in all ways then the 345.

Oops...I hate to quote myself but I think the A-345 beats the 77L in hot & high MEX.
Thanks,
Cary
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:50 am

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 57):

I'm not familiar with TK but which Latin American markets has TK beat EK into? EK's route map shows them into GRU, GIG and EZE plus cargo to Quito and Campinas.

I was referring to MEX in particular, not Latin america.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 55):
EK offers the Middle East, the east coast of Africa, South Africa and India

As do European carriers, in particular AF/KL, which has a very good network to Africa, including east (KL), west (AF) and south Africa (both), and which is a skyteam member along with AM. And let's not forget DL, another skyteam carrier that offers a non stop from ATL to JNB, shaving a few thousand miles off your MEX-fuel-DXB-JNB proposal.

And as for India, there is little to no market from MEX to India. Indians in Mexico number a few thousand only, nothing more.

So your point is laughable at best !

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-04-23 22:02:13]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Caryjack
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:09 am

From the OP link: His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, arriving at Mexico City Airport on Sunday.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 58):
And let's not forget DL, another skyteam carrier that offers a non stop from ATL to JNB, shaving a few thousand miles off your MEX-fuel-DXB-JNB proposal.

It's not my proposal . It came from the folks at EK and is the title of this thread...I'd never considered it nor had a reason to. If EK proceeds with MEX - DXB, I doubt they'll stop for fuel.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 58):
European carriers, in particular AF/KL, which has a very good network to Africa

Not for me from SEA, nor apparently MEX or other parts of Latin America. It won't be the best choice for everyone but if you fly EK you are 1 stop from almost anywhere, including more than 20 passenger destinations in Africa. It should be clear that EK has a different business plan than most other airlines.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 58):
which is a skyteam member along with AM. And let's not forget DL, another skyteam carrier

Are you saying that Skyteam has a lock on Latin American traffic to the Middle East? Perhaps that's what EK will conclude after their visit.
DL is making a big splash in SEA and is not forgotten.   

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 58):
there is little to no market from MEX to India.

That's fine but the EK plan offers one stop service to almost anywhere in the world on the biggest airliners that can be had. The plan seems to be working.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 58):
So your point is laughable at best !

His Highness puts me up on CPT trips...I'll be sure to pass your analysis along.   

Thanks,   
Cary
 
pa747sp
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:48 am

If the issue with MEX is that it is 'hot and high', one possibility is a triangular flight, non=stop DXB MEX and with a tech stop on the return.
Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
 
iahmark
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:54 am

Well, well, well , If EK is serious about MEX services the solution is simple and it involves 4 engines amd the ability to convince the Mexican government of granting them access to Cancun too.

That would be the more feasible routing without the need for 5th freedoms.

Think DXB-CUN-MEX and MEX-CUN DXB.

Per de GCM the longest leg MEX-CUN/ CUN-MEX are 7272 nautical miles each leg.
As a reference one of their longest routes DXB-LAX is 7246 nautical miles.


To me CUN makes the most sense economically (serves a well known travel destination coupled with one of biggest Latin American cities) and it makes it technically(no large detours,) feasible by taking the "hotand high factor" off the table.
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:35 am

Quoting iahmark (Reply 61):
Per de GCM the longest leg MEX-CUN/ CUN-MEX

u mean DXB-CUN-DXB
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:42 am



Quoting Caryjack (Reply 59):
Are you saying that Skyteam has a lock on Latin American traffic to the Middle East?

That's not at all what i said. I never spoke about the Middle East. I spoke about Africa and India. Read my post again !

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 59):
If EK proceeds with MEX - DXB, I doubt they'll stop for fuel.

They have no choice but to stop for fuel. It's a mathematical and physical certainty !
You cannot takeoff from an airport 7316 ft high and fly over 14345 km, all the while hoping to make money ! And EK is in the business to make money, just like everyone else. (pulling out of CRK proves it)

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 59):
It should be clear that EK has a different business plan than most other airlines.

Dont kid yourself ! As i said above, EK has the same business plan as any other airline, which is to make money in operating routes that are profitable ! MEX-DXB is NOT profitable, not non stop, not with a one stop.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 59):
His Highness puts me up on CPT trips...I'll be sure to pass your analysis along

Please do, and while you're at it, please let his Highness know that Mexico is in North America   

Quoting iahmark (Reply 61):
To me CUN makes the most sense economically

It might make the most sense compared to any other scenario, but it makes little to no sense overall ! As i've said already in another thread on this matter, BCN or MAD make the most sense, if EK is able to get 5th freedom, which they probably wont.

So therefore, this route is dead in the water, as Europe (or the US) is the only stopover point that has a chance to make MEX work for EK.

Not to mention the fact that the A345, the only 4-holer with the legs for MEX, has an outdated product onboard and will soon be retired from the EK fleet.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-04-24 03:50:03]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
iahmark
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:57 am

Quoting Airindia (Reply 62):
u mean DXB-CUN-DXB

Excuses to everybody for the lapsus brutus, hahha you are indeed correct :

Per de GCM the longest leg DXB-CUN/ CUN-DXB are 7272 nautical miles each leg.
As a reference one of their longest routes DXB-LAX is 7246 nautical miles.
 
upwardfacing
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 56):
Flew two times with EK the GIG-DXB-GIG route (last one this weekend) recently and both times the flights were 100% full.

No surprise that they were full, but DXB-GIG-EZE is sometimes operated on a 77L, other times a 77W. The smaller capacity compared with typical Emirates flights, and for a service combining two destinations speaks for itself about the demand.

I think if MEX could be combined with another destination in the region (leaving out the USA or Canada) the way GIG & EZE are, then a similar 77L service might work. But there is no other major market like MEX in Mexico/Central America/Caribbean for Emirates to work with. This is why they have been apparently trying for a fifth-freedom flight via Europe, so far unsuccessfully.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 58):
And as for India, there is little to no market from MEX to India. Indians in Mexico number a few thousand only, nothing more.

There are other drivers of air traffic besides ethnic migration.

The bigger issue for MEX as an EK destination may be that many of the people travelling between Mexico and the usual Emirates destinations in Africa/Mideast/Subcontinent/SE Asia already have US visas. IAH and DFW are just a hop away. Meanwhile, Japan, Korea, and (coastal) China are faster to reach via the Pacific from Mexico and Central America.

Without securing fifth-freedom rights in Europe, or changes in American visa policy for a stopover flight, it might take some years before Emirates is willing to try MEX.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 56):
As for South America, it would be great to see BOG, LIM and SCL being added to the network, as well as a potential 1-stop flight in Africa continuing to Brazil.

Like MEX, BOG has a similar elevation issue, and presumably would be combined with CCS. However, CCS may be challenging for now.

SCL seems like it would be a nice tag-on; I think the problem is that it's a much smaller market for Emirates than EZE or GIG. Plus, it may be better served from Asia via SYD or AKL. LIM is probably even smaller, and again a transpacific routing may be better.

For now it seems that GRU is the one and only place in Latin America that multiple African, ME, and Asian carriers can make work.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:37 pm

If EK were to start MEX, the only logical stop would be CUN….maybe doing DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB.

MEX is one of the largest cities in the world and to say it can't fill a couple of hundred seats a couple of times a week to world hub DXB just does not make sense to me.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
airbazar
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 21):

An EK MEX flight stop in U.S.A. would force Mexicans (and many other nationals) have U.S. visas to fly on that flight. Same applies if via Canada, Canadian visa a must.

Given my 2 hour experience at immigration clearance last night in IAH, I'd say the bigger problem is a long layover to account for long immigration lines at any U.S. airport. It's just baffling to me how U.S. CBP keeps getting worse and worse with every passing year. This must pose a huge competitive disadvantage to U.S. carriers in this country who could - and do - link Latin America to other parts of the World.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 66):
If EK were to start MEX, the only logical stop would be CUN….maybe doing DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB.

  
I can't imagine CUN being a relevant market from South/Central Asia and ME so a quick tech stop should suffice.

In that regard, TK should do a lot better in CUN, with their expansive Russian network. There are huge numbers of Russians vacationing in the Mayan Riviera these days.
 
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Miami
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:02 pm

EY planned AUH-MIA-MEX back in 2009. Why not EK DXB-MIA-MEX? Oh, because it doesn't make sense... Right... So DXB-ATL-MEX?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
upwardfacing
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:12 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 67):
I can't imagine CUN being a relevant market from South/Central Asia and ME so a quick tech stop should suffice.

Central Asia has few EK flights; the traffic is small anyway and more likely flows via MOW or FRA across the Atlantic.

Actually, CUN is a big international conference/convention destination as well, besides being a beach holiday destination.

In any case, even DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB does not seem to be ready just yet. (They are not likely to launch a 3x weekly flight.) The critical mass isn't there yet.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 68):
Why not EK DXB-MIA-MEX? Oh, because it doesn't make sense...

It makes sense but EK wanted rights to carry passengers between MIA and MEX. From what I've heard the Mexican government could not be convinced to do so. EK figures if you are going to do a tech stop may as well broaden your chances on making money with that stop.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

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2travel2know2
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:38 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 70):
It makes sense but EK wanted rights to carry passengers between MIA and MEX. From what I've heard the Mexican government could not be convinced to do so. EK figures if you are going to do a tech stop may as well broaden your chances on making money with that stop.

1. Flying DXB-MEX-DXB via a U.S. airport means those passengers needing U.S. visas to travel to the U.S. will have to have visas to fly the route.
2. If EK still wants MEX via Miami and Mexico won't grant EK traffic rights for MIA-MEX-MIA, then EK should apply for MIA-TLC-MIA, surely then Mexico will grant EK them.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 68):

EY planned AUH-MIA-MEX back in 2009. Why not EK DXB-MIA-MEX? Oh, because it doesn't make sense... Right... So DXB-ATL-MEX?

If EK comes to MEX, the stop will not be anywhere in the US.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:10 am

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 69):
In any case, even DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB does not seem to be ready just yet.

First of all, DXB-MEX non stop is a 14300 km leg against the wind. It would be the longest scheduled flight in the world. Aint gonna happen. Ask SQ and TG why that is ! They have some experience with 14k + sectors.

Edit: They "had" some experience with 14k + sectors !

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-04-27 18:12:22]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
upwardfacing
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 73):
Aint gonna happen.

No argument there. A convergence of long stage length, low traffic volume, and high elevation for the return trip makes this idea rather unrealistic.

If BCN/MAD is not possible as a stopover (difficult to secure traffic rights), maybe something like OSL? A bit of oil traffic there as well. And supposedly Mexico is opening up its oil sector.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:34 am

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 74):
If BCN/MAD is not possible as a stopover (difficult to secure traffic rights), maybe something like OSL? A bit of oil traffic there as well. And supposedly Mexico is opening up its oil sector.

Sounds good; Oil and chemical sector could mean something. Also, there are no flights between Scandinavia and MEX right now so EK could possibly grab some traffic from CPH, STO and HEL.
However, but now a days there might not be enough demand between MEX and DXB plus MEX and OSL to operate that flight daily.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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MayaviaERJ190
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:40 am

Emirates needs to learn from experience.

Out of my good-willed basic memory... please correct me if wrong.

Only two flights out of MEX with refuel stops due to hot and high conditions are currently successful:

AM MEX-TIJ-NRT B788
AM MEX-TIJ-PVG B772

For very many other reasons, many other flights in the same situation have been historically cancelled. The reasons vary from politics to technology, to economics to 5th freedom to...

But at the end, this is the history Emirates should be analyzing, all of these flights are now defunct (or were cancelled while the airline or the metal existed) for some reason:

AM MEX-MIA-MAD-ORY DC10
AM MEX-CUN-MAD-ORY DC10
AM MEX-ACA-LIM B737
AM MEX-BOG-LIM-EZE DC8C
AM MEX-MTY-FCO B763

MX MEX-PVR/MZT-SEA B722
MX MEX-PTY-CCS A320

JL MEX-YVR-HND B744

MH MEX-LAX-KUL B744

SU MEX-HAV-SNN-SVO IL62

LY MEX-???-(???)-TLV ????

AF MEX-IAH-CDG B742 (MEX-IAH freedom in competition with AM, Pan Am & Texas International)
AF MEX-IAD-CDG CCRD

IB MEX-YUL-MAD B742
IB MEX-SDQ-MAD DC10

KL MEX-IAH-YUL-AMS B742

QF LHR-...-NAS-MEX-ACA-...-SYD B741

RG MEX-MAO-GIG DC10

and maybe others that I don't remember.

Not until recently did Mexico opened an embassy in the UAE because of the increasing Mexican trade and population in the emirates, and even after this, if in any remote case, DXB is going to work from MEX, I believe it can only (and only) be through CUN.

But even then... if I'm going to DEL, JNB, SYD or else, I'm still so much better off connecting through anywhere USA into a non-stop after a really short hop from MEX.

I don't see EK in MEX (anytime soon). Same goes for TK.

On the marketing side, I also don't see Mexicans preferring Middle-Eastern airlines over American or European carriers. Even if they can make the flight work technically, selling the service in Mexico is a hard climb up. On the energy industry side, I don't see the Texans letting people from far away move in first.
My other plane is an A380.
 
airbazar
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:53 am

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 74):

If BCN/MAD is not possible as a stopover (difficult to secure traffic rights), maybe something like OSL?

The next best thing to MAD/BCN is LIS. LIS-MEX is a unserved route and EK already has a code-share agreement with TP to MAD, BCN, SVQ.
http://www.emirates.com/english/help...FAQDetails.aspx?faqCategory=193393
 
Viscount724
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:23 am

Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 76):
QF LHR-...-NAS-MEX-ACA-...-SYD B741

To the best of my memory, QF never used the 747 on the "Fiesta Route". I think they dropped that route (LHR-BDA-NAS-MEX-ACA-PPT-NAN-SYD) when they replaced the 707 with the 747 to Europe and North America.

Many of the other routes you mention were only operated because aircraft lacked the range for nonstop service at the time. Examples: IB MEX-YUL-MAD and KL MEX-IAH-YUL-AMS.

JL dropped the YVR-MEX tag-on 5th freedom sector because there's little local traffic YVR-MEX and 2 flights a week NRT-MEX weren't competitive with multiple daily connections via the U.S. I think the bilaterals restricted JAL to 2 flights a week with 5th freedom rights YVR-MEX. A twice-weekly service is also expensive with crews spending 3 or 4 nights in a hotel between flights.
 
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ghost77
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:47 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 78):
JL dropped the YVR-MEX tag-on 5th freedom sector because there's little local traffic YVR-MEX and 2 flights a week NRT-MEX weren't competitive with multiple daily connections via the U.S

Not so little... By early 2010, when JAL dropped that leg to MEX, Mexicana used to serve it through seven to nine non-stop flights a week. It is currently served by Air Canada with one daily non-stop flight.

g77
 
AR385
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RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:18 am

Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 76):
and maybe others that I don't remember.

MH MEX-LAX-?-KUL

And we know what a comedy with the 5th. freedom rights that one was.
 
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MayaviaERJ190
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:10 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:24 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 78):
To the best of my memory, QF never used the 747 on the "Fiesta Route".

You may be "almost right".

As a kid, and while on vacation, I loved going spotting at ACA. Film was expensive and I don't have many pictures from then. Even as young as I might have been back then, it is still impossible for me to mistake a 707 with a 747.

I say you may be almost right, because I only remember having seen the 747 there once, maybe a demonstration? Maybe a trial run? A charter? Who knows! All I remember is that that 747 was one big flying roo and at least, once, it was there in ACA.

From way back then, I only remember 3 wide bodies, one being a single QF & 2 others with certain regular service, EA L1011 & AM DC1030, in ACA.
My other plane is an A380.
 
AyostoLeon
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:13 am

An entry in UAE interact dating back to 2007 mentions that an air services agreement between the UAE and Mexico that allowed for unlimited frequencies, capacities and routes, with no restrictions on aircraft, whether owned or leased. The article also stated that in addittion to 3rd and 4th freedoms, 5th freedom traffic was allowed on "specific intermediate points in Europe."

Unfortunately the article did not mention where those points were.

http://www.uaeinteract.com/docs/UAE_...th_United_Mexican_States/24880.htm

The same source describes an agreement with Venezuela signed in November 2010 that specifically mentions Bogota, Loma, Quito, San Jose, San Salvador and Mexico City as beyond points. Would this be a possible avenue for entry into the Mexican market?

http://www.uaeinteract.com/docs/UAE_...Agreement_with_Venezuela/43407.htm
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 78):
there's little local traffic YVR-MEX

Not sure about that. JL and MX had MEX-YVR ops simultaneously during certain period of time. At some point, MX had more than daily service using a combo of A318 and A319 aircraft. Nowadays, AC serves this market and there is less demand because of the visa requirement. Back then, when no visa requirement existed, there was more robust demand for this route.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2962
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:40 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 82):
An entry in UAE interact dating back to 2007 mentions that an air services agreement between the UAE and Mexico that allowed for unlimited frequencies, capacities and routes, with no restrictions on aircraft, whether owned or leased. The article also stated that in addittion to 3rd and 4th freedoms, 5th freedom traffic was allowed on "specific intermediate points in Europe."

Could DME, SVO or VKO be one of those specific but not disclosed airports?
There might be some demand for a MOW-MEX.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:48 pm

Hmmm. And it is only a 42 mile detour from the shortest nonstop routing.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
paparrucho
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:28 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:45 pm

How about a DXB- MILAN -MEX ?? Or DXB- ROME -MEX ????
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3002
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 84):
Could DME, SVO or VKO be one of those specific but not disclosed airports?
There might be some demand for a MOW-MEX.

It would be the longest non stop flight outbound from MEX at the moment. MEX-DME comes in at 10775 km. Might be right on the edge of profitability for EK. Let's not forget that a 77W's takeoff weight takes a 100,000 lbs hit out of MEX in ISA conditions.

That is significant.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Sun May 04, 2014 12:36 pm

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 65):
For now it seems that GRU is the one and only place in Latin America that multiple African, ME, and Asian carriers can make work.

I think EZE, GIG and LIM can make it work also. LIM in fact have a good Asian component in the population, but would need a tag to be covered by EK.
QR for example plans to fly to Rio de Janeiro, probably in 2015.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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wxman11
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:33 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu May 08, 2014 5:20 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 21):
An EK MEX flight stop in U.S.A. would force Mexicans (and many other nationals) have U.S. visas to fly on that flight. Same applies if via Canada, Canadian visa a must.
For EK MEX service is either triangle route in Mexico or routed via an European airport which won't make the Mexican airline feel be threatened to deny 5th freedom traffic rights.
Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 1):
Even the 777-200LR will not be able to make MEX-DXB because of the high elevation of MEX. They would have to go via Europe or somewhere in N.A.

I would have to agree with this. I like the idea that EK wants to jump into MEX, however, a stop will be required in both directions, preferably somewhere not in the U.S to make it easy for Mexicans not having to get a visa or such. besides, I recall that getting a Mexican passport for their citizens is not an easy task, at least that's what I've been told. If the flight from MEX-DXB is going to happen, flight will be payload restricted, operating mostly as a passenger flight like that at SFO. It appears that EK wants to conquer the world so I would probably think that an ideal choice for EK flying into Mexico would be CUN. MEX slot will probably make it difficult for EK, I think.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Thu May 08, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting wxman11 (Reply 89):
besides, I recall that getting a Mexican passport for their citizens is not an easy task

The process more or less goes like this: Make an appointment, pay 70-80 bucks for a two-year passport, go on the date and time of the appointment to a delegation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (delegations are located all over the country) for 30 minutes or so, and then return a week later to retrieve the passport. Is that a complicated task? It is not as fast and convenient as it might be in developed and efficient countries, but I would not say it is complicated.

Quoting wxman11 (Reply 89):
MEX slot will probably make it difficult for EK, I think.

Sure, the airport is going to exceed its maximum capacity at some point in the near future, but the current government's policy is to foster the launch of new routes and attract new airlines, so I am sure something can be worked out if EK really wanted to land at MEX.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Fri May 09, 2014 1:30 am

Here is Skycargo flying to MMMX

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE9971
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Fri May 09, 2014 1:32 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 90):
The process more or less goes like this: Make an appointment, pay 70-80 bucks for a two-year passport, go on the date and time of the appointment to a delegation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (delegations are located all over the country) for 30 minutes or so, and then return a week later to retrieve the passport. Is that a complicated task? It is not as fast and convenient as it might be in developed and efficient countries, but I would not say it is complicated.

That´s weird. Where I live you get it in 24 hrs. If you go to the actual delegation you get it the same day.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Fri May 09, 2014 3:05 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 90):
It is not as fast and convenient as it might be in developed and efficient countries, but I would not say it is complicated.

You mean, like the U.S. where it takes 4-6 weeks? 
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Fri May 09, 2014 3:41 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 92):
That´s weird. Where I live you get it in 24 hrs. If you go to the actual delegation you get it the same day.

Maybe you are right. I will have to deal with that in 2 years time, so I have no first-hand knowledge; I just quoted a buddy from Querétaro who coincidentally applied for it yesterday.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
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KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Fri May 09, 2014 4:01 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 5):
I think these are the type of routes where the 778 will shine. Basically linking the entire Western half of the Americas and the Middle East.

But if the 777-200LR can't make the trip, so can't the 778. Both aircraft have the same design range.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 27):
the majority of delivered 77Ws have been 9 abreast while the 778 is almost certainly going to be marketed as 10 abreast making up much of any capacity shortcoming for length.

Although in case of EK, the 77W is already at 10-abreast. For them, the 778 will be smaller.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 29):
However it is important to note that 9 abreast 77W operators have ordered the 779 and I see virtually no reason to buy the 779 over the a351 if you don't go 10abreast as the seating advantage would negated and the 779 would be heavier and more expensive. I therefore conclude that ANA, CX, QR, and LH are going to operate it in 10-abreast and that is enough of an industry mandate for me. I suspect it will be rare to find a 9abreast 777x

Certainly, and CX and QR also have the A351 on order. I don't see the point of operating both A351 and 779 with a 9-abreast Y cabin.

[Edited 2014-05-09 09:03:41]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: Emirates To Mexico?

Fri May 09, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 95):
But if the 777-200LR can't make the trip, so can't the 778.

I don't see why the 77L can't make the trip (at least the DXB-MEX portion). Their 77Ws were flying DXB-LAX and that is only 500nm shorter and the 77L flies ~1,400nm further than the 77W. I imagine profitability of the route is its limitation rather than aircraft capability. Their 778s should be able to help with both.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 95):
I don't see the point of operating both A351 and 779 with a 9-abreast Y cabin.

Neither do I. Assuming similar availability, I am not sure I see the point in operating a 9-abreast 779 to be honest. Maybe the additional fuel cost can be made up by commonality or pricing savings but I doubt it.

tortugamon

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