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peanuts
Posts: 980
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
Yes 13$, and healthcare is almost free, you have to pay 1€ to the doctor and some cents per box of drugs. You also get a state pension of course. And if you live in high cost of living places you qualify for affordable housing and help to pay the rent. Then you get money if you make kids.

Care to share the flipside in all this? Who's paying for all this? I'm also willing to bet the minimum wage earners in France pay more income tax than a minimum wage earner in the US.
What you also conveniently fail to mention is the waiting lists for certain procedures at hospitals as well as for affordable housing. There are all sorts of hoops to maneuver through in Europe in order to get what you want. I believe "getting ahead" is arguably tougher in Europe than in the US. I'd prefer to manage my own monies as opposed to having a bureaucrat decide what to do with it.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 20):
Giving those workers a raise helps everyone else gets more money in their pockets.

It sure does. Now the McDonalds Manager who was at $15 wants to make $25. Only fair right? And the cycle continues...

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 20):
But we do pay a lot in state and local taxes as well.

Don't get me started. The additional taxes in Europe add up to well over 60 percent when all is said and done. Need a washing machine? 21% sales tax please.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 21):
They therefore get more for their money than we do; their pension is guaranteed and healthcare does not involve meeting sky-high deductibles and paying onerous co-pays at the hospital. Oh, and don't forget better schools and transportation systems to make their lives better.

Just move there already. It's utopia. I'm telling you.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 44):
And it will hurt the smaller businesses more than the bigger ones.

It's funny. The so called "fair minded" people despise the big box stores at the edge of town and clamor for the good old days with small mom and pop stores. Yet their interests yields the exact opposite.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 45):
This is an interesting question. The rental market is made up of a huge variety of salaries. Most places do not want to cater to minimum wage earners but instead cater to a more upmarket crowd (that group can also include students with rich parents, as I have witnessed). Apartments are priced accordingly and are thus $1,400 for someone making $62k a year and not $22k a year. Those making $30k a year, up from $19k a year, might now be able to access more rentals that were not priced for them previously. What we may see is that instead of forced-roommate markets (this happens in places like LAX, NYC, SFO, etc.) is that people move out and now get a place of their own or at least get down to two and not four roommates. A price increase would not necessarily follow if people now have the expectation that only 1-2 people will be paying for the apartment. In either case, I still think it's a win for a higher minimum wage.

O dear. Econ 101 is in order here.

Quoting rentonview (Reply 47):
I think what's missing from this conversation is input from people who are actually making minimum wage as adults, as opposed to hot air from entitled middle aged white guys who believe their $1/hr. lawn moving job when they were 15 means they have a grasp of what it's like to pick one's self up from their bootstraps.

You sir are nothing but a race baiter. 'Nuff said.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:40 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 50):

Care to share the flipside in all this? Who's paying for all this? I'm also willing to bet the minimum wage earners in France pay more income tax than a minimum wage earner in the US.

Surprisingly, if you factor in the cost of insurance and 401k contributions sufficient for retirement, in addition to federal, state and city taxes, we in the US get hit up for about the same % of our pay. But, unlike us, they actually get close to free medical care and guaranteed pensions from paying all those taxes, in addition to good public services like buses, trains, roads and airports. Our money gets burned up in a huge ball of fireworks for the military.

About waiting lists - that is the biggest misnomer in the book. I have never heard of that being a problem in France, where public health care is well-funded. As a matter of fact, the French healthcare system saved my life when I got deathly ill and didn't charge me a nickle. You would be shocked at how good that felt.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 50):
It sure does. Now the McDonalds Manager who was at $15 wants to make $25. Only fair right? And the cycle continues..

That doesn't really happen at the higher levels of pay. Once you reach about $25/hr, fewer people require an uptick in pay, especially when higher-paying jobs are increasingly scarce.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 50):

O dear. Econ 101 is in order here.

Calling me stupid will not make your argument for you.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:34 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 51):
You would be shocked at how good that felt.

A lot of policies are put in place to make people feel good. That doesn't make it the ideal or even smart.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:58 pm

Minimum wage in Australia is roughly $15/hr. Their economy does not see to be falling apart.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:05 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 53):
Minimum wage in Australia is roughly $15/hr. Their economy does not see to be falling apart.

We can compare economies all day long and come up with a hundred different reasons why one country is better than the other and of course the reverse. It doesn't really mean anything in isolation.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
peanuts
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:14 am

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 51):
About waiting lists - that is the biggest misnomer in the book.

Aside from medical emergencies, it's not a misnomer. There is a medical priority list. I can guarantee it.
Also, low income housing: huge waiting lists. And you hardly ever get what you want. Why subject yourself like that?
It's not free living to me.

As a dual citizen spending considerable time back at my country of origin, NL, I've experienced the best and worst of both worlds. It's a choice. More independent minded go getters in life would probably opt for the US way if they had that option. There are a lot of freeloaders in Europe. Where's the pride in that?

I suffered an appendicitis/peritonitis emergency in Amsterdam. The doctors saved my life after they misdiagnosed it first, hence the peritonitis. The hospital presented me with a wonderful bill. Over 50k. They know how to bill you when they can. Even their own citizens. I just happen to not be a tax payer for NL that year. Even though I know illegals would get the pass. Fair?

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 51):
Calling me stupid will not make your argument for you.

I can't find in my post where I called you stupid. A bit dramatic.
I may have implied that you are uninformed. Your basic economic arguments are just popular talking points. You either never took an Econ101 course or never aced it. That's all I'm saying. But you're not stupid.
If I don't know what I'm talking about I'd rather stay quiet and try to learn something new.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 53):
Minimum wage in Australia is roughly $15/hr. Their economy does not see to be falling apart.

Because it works elsewhere doesn't mean it works in the US. The US economy is almost BUILD around restaurants and eating out and other major service industries. Much more so than Europe and even Australia. You bring the minimum wage in the US up to $15, PLUS the Affordable Health Care shoe that's about to drop on the big companies next year, and you could see entire industries basically implode here.
They don't have $5 value meals in Europe/Australia. Period.
So in the end, the lowest guy in the US will suffer, once again.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:58 am

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 49):
the Port Authority might vote to mandate the raise, since the court essentially said all power resides with the Authority.

And then again, they might not. I'm going with "not" - what rationale would they have for making their facilities unattractive to businesses?

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 51):
Quoting peanuts (Reply 50):

O dear. Econ 101 is in order here.


Calling me stupid will not make your argument for you.

He didn't call you stupid. He implied that you're uninformed. Big difference.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
SEA
Posts: 297
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:17 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
No reason a McDonalds employee at the airport should earn $15 when outside the airport the wage might be $9. All the $15 dollars does is force up cost further on airport service providers which eventually the public must cover. One big inflationary cycle.

Actually it's the other way around. Why should a McDonald's worker in SEA be making $9/hr when a McDonald's worker right across the street would be making $15 an hour?
 
PhilBy
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:01 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 50):
Care to share the flipside in all this? Who's paying for all this? I'm also willing to bet the minimum wage earners in France pay more income tax than a minimum wage earner in the US.
What you also conveniently fail to mention is the waiting lists for certain procedures at hospitals as well as for affordable housing.

French income tax is about half that in the UK but the social security payments are much higher.

France has almost zero waiting list for most medical procedures. The UK where treatment is free has waiting lists that can be several years.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:19 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 55):
If I don't know what I'm talking about I'd rather stay quiet and try to learn something new.

You still haven't made your argument.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 53):
Minimum wage in Australia is roughly $15/hr. Their economy does not see to be falling apart.

Very true. We need to have comparisons with other countries so as to have examples of what effect raising the minimum wage would have. Greater stability often means a greater ability to take chances and try new things in life. Saving more is also possible at certain levels and enables people to have a brighter outlook on life. Although it is possible increasing the minimum wage would have an impact on many salary levels, raising the minimum wage is the best way to shift more income to those making the least. Achieving greater pay equality in this country would increase social equality, as would income redistribution in the form of single-payer healthcare, guaranteed housing and income, international-standard schools, better roads, rail and airports, etc. We all just need to be willing to take risks to make it happen.
 
rentonview
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 52):

Quoting rentonview (Reply 47):
I think what's missing from this conversation is input from people who are actually making minimum wage as adults, as opposed to hot air from entitled middle aged white guys who believe their $1/hr. lawn moving job when they were 15 means they have a grasp of what it's like to pick one's self up from their bootstraps.

You sir are nothing but a race baiter. 'Nuff said.

I think I'm just stating the obvious, actually.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1742
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:45 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 59):
Very true. We need to have comparisons with other countries so as to have examples of what effect raising the minimum wage would have. Greater stability often means a greater ability to take chances and try new things in life. Saving more is also possible at certain levels and enables people to have a brighter outlook on life. Although it is possible increasing the minimum wage would have an impact on many salary levels, raising the minimum wage is the best way to shift more income to those making the least. Achieving greater pay equality in this country would increase social equality, as would income redistribution in the form of single-payer healthcare, guaranteed housing and income, international-standard schools, better roads, rail and airports, etc. We all just need to be willing to take risks to make it happen.

If you're going to compare other countries to the U.S. then you need to compare every aspect of life in that country. Their medical system, their tax structure, their quality of life, the style of living the average person is accustomed to, the list goes on.... You can't just look at what their minimum wage is and call that an accurate comparison
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 61):
If you're going to compare other countries to the U.S. then you need to compare every aspect of life in that country. Their medical system, their tax structure, their quality of life, the style of living the average person is accustomed to, the list goes on.... You can't just look at what their minimum wage is and call that an accurate comparison

What comparison would you make that would sufficiently argue against a $15/hr minimum wage?
 
T5towbar
Posts: 491
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:51 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 50):
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 20):
Giving those workers a raise helps everyone else gets more money in their pockets.

It sure does. Now the McDonalds Manager who was at $15 wants to make $25. Only fair right? And the cycle continues...

I'm not agreeing with the 15.00 increase, but if they are making 9.00, it should be bumped up a couple of dollars.
And the manager who is making 15.00 gets bumped up to 17.00. So that puts a bit more money in those people's pockets which they will spend ASAP.

What SEIU probably wants for the workers if they organized them is a progressive wage scale with a floor and a ceiling.
That would bring a bit of stability to the workers instead of the revolving door. A couple of decades ago, people took those jobs till they found something better, and they had to raise the pay to attract people. Now the reverse has happened. And you can't really find something better. Now it's hard for the college grad, that's saying something.

Its getting ready to become an oligarchy soon........
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
hatbutton
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 63):
I'm not agreeing with the 15.00 increase, but if they are making 9.00, it should be bumped up a couple of dollars.
And the manager who is making 15.00 gets bumped up to 17.00. So that puts a bit more money in those people's pockets which they will spend ASAP.

I hear this argument that they'll spend more all the time, which I don't necessarily disagree with. But won't business have to raise prices to pay for the increased labor, therefore the raise you just got now helps pay for more expensive goods, kind of leaving you back at square one? I'm in no way an economist so I'm not claiming that to be true. I'm just wondering out loud.
 
PMUA787
Posts: 108
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RE: Sea-Tac Airport Minimum Wage Fight

Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:46 pm

With this push for the increase in the minimum wage at SEA, would this make some airlines consider cutting back service or go elsewhere like PAE if they get a passenger terminal built?

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