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Cubsrule
Posts: 14724
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 49):
It is not so much the visa issues - it is the time and hassle of going through immigration and customs to never actually really enter the USA. I have waited in line at Miami for over two hours in the past and waits of about an hour are quite common place.

  

I think whatever money folks are inclined to spend on improving transit might be better spent than on sterile transit. Specifically, the following two areas could use improvement:

1) Immigration. The government and airports together could focus both on hiring additional immigration agents (MIA is doing this with local money) and with expanding the use of global entry and passport kiosks, perhaps to folks who are from visa waiver countries or hold multi-entry US visas. The US is already doing a pretty good job with slow but steady expansion of visa waiver, and this is also a good thing.

2) Customs. ITI at every station with a large number of "in transit" passengers would be an enormous improvement.

If immigration gets to the point where it's consistently a 5 or 10 minute wait for most passengers and customs is a breeze through due to ITI, I don't think facilities will be a significant impediment to transiting the States.
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ikramerica
Posts: 15101
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 43):
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 50):
I think whatever money folks are inclined to spend on improving transit might be better spent than on sterile transit. Specifically, the following two areas could use improvement:

1) Immigration. The government and airports together could focus both on hiring additional immigration agents (MIA is doing this with local money) and with expanding the use of global entry and passport kiosks, perhaps to folks who are from visa waiver countries or hold multi-entry US visas. The US is already doing a pretty good job with slow but steady expansion of visa waiver, and this is also a good thing.

2) Customs. ITI at every station with a large number of "in transit" passengers would be an enormous improvement.

If immigration gets to the point where it's consistently a 5 or 10 minute wait for most passengers and customs is a breeze through due to ITI, I don't think facilities will be a significant impediment to transiting the States.

This makes a lot of sense. And providing a separate rescreening station (many airports have this, but not all) would also benefit transit pax. The goal should be 10 minutes through immigration, no-need to pick up baggage and recheck it, and 5 minutes through rescreening.

As for accommodating pax who don't qualify for a US visa... no desire to do so. Keep them away. But for those who qualify but have to wait forever and pay a lot just to transit, the US should have a low cost 1 use, 1 day visa for transit that can be issued at booking (to be verified by the US authorities after purchase with full refund of fare if denied). Round trip would require two such visas, but so what?

There is still the risk of 1-day visa holders ditching their flight and staying, but one would hope you wouldn't qualify if there was a high risk of that.

But again, do we really know the demand for this?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
tyler81190
Topic Author
Posts: 720
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RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:59 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 52):
But again, do we really know the demand for this?

I am sure some number crunchers at the airlines know...


Would it make a difference if say LH or AF or BA or LX were given 5th freedom rights in the U.S. or if they were allowed to fly domestic tag ons and have local traffic? Just a thought, brought on by a BA documentary I saw the other day...
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting Hkg212 (Reply 6):
MAD would be an exception, but for reasons unknown to me MAD has no direct service to Asia

It does have three, KE to ICN, HY to TAS and TG to BKK, but those are certainly not the best options for you from HKG to LatAm.

Also, a technicality, but worth noting......QR, EK, RJ and SV serve MAD, all of which are in Western Asia !
So the count is really 7.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-04-24 18:23:15]
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Polot
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RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 53):
Would it make a difference if say LH or AF or BA or LX were given 5th freedom rights in the U.S. or if they were allowed to fly domestic tag ons and have local traffic? Just a thought, brought on by a BA documentary I saw the other day...

LH/AF/BA/LX all already have 5th freedom rights with the US, it came as part of the EU/US open skies agreement. It doesn't make much sense to try and use them though (5th freedom flights are generally lower yielding as the operator doesn't have the name recognition on the route and often an inferior schedule) when they can rely on their US partners.
 
tyler81190
Topic Author
Posts: 720
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RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:00 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 55):
LH/AF/BA/LX all already have 5th freedom rights with the US, it came as part of the EU/US open skies agreement. It doesn't make much sense to try and use them though (5th freedom flights are generally lower yielding as the operator doesn't have the name recognition on the route and often an inferior schedule) when they can rely on their US partners.

I think many U.S. passengers would be more than willing to try a new to them airline if the "other guys" are really as bad as everyone seems to think.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15101
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RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:31 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 53):
Would it make a difference if say LH or AF or BA or LX were given 5th freedom rights in the U.S. or if they were allowed to fly domestic tag ons and have local traffic? Just a thought, brought on by a BA documentary I saw the other day...

There is no reason for either scenario. BA is not going to get Cabotage rights, and the EU airlines have no need for fifth freedom through the USA as non-stop flights to central and south America are shorter and higher yielding. AF has Caribbean flights from Miami but those aren't 5th freedom.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
HKG212
Posts: 137
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RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:38 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 44):
MIA also offers ITI baggage transfer for participating carriers.

I heard it before but, having transferred there many times, I find it strange that AA does not use the service given how important MIA is for them as a Latin American hub, and how successfully AA uses ITI in DFW. So I suspect there are some problems with the operation in MIA, perhaps technical baggage system issues.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 54):
It does have three, KE to ICN, HY to TAS and TG to BKK, but those are certainly not the best options for you from HKG to LatAm.

Well... I have to admit I had no idea, but having looked at it now, 3X weekly from ICN and BKK, on carriers which are not affiliated with the local hub carrier, would appear to be much more about O/D than LatAm connections. (I'm ignoring what looks like a 1X weekly tag on to a GVA flight from TAS, though I certainly appreciate the obscurity of it!).

So, my question remains: why wouldn't CX or IB fly HKG-MAD? both easily have the right equipment for it.
 
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Polot
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RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:02 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 56):
I think many U.S. passengers would be more than willing to try a new to them airline if the "other guys" are really as bad as everyone seems to think.

Its not that people are not willing to try them, its that people don't know that the foreign carrier is an option. Pretend you are not an airline enthusiast and you need to fly to FRA from JFK. Why would you check an airline named Singapore Airlines? Obviously you would check the US airlines and the German airlines to see what flights are offered. To get noticed and to get some butts in the seats the 5th freedom airline therefore typically offers very low fares compared to its competitors on the route, or they have to spend a ton of money in constant advertising to get the word out. I just check JFK-FRA prices in mid June. DL and LH were asking $2,500+ (roundtrip) for economy class. The price on SQ on the same days? A little less than $900. Who do you think is making more money on the route?
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3052
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Will Our Airports Ever Be "in-transit" Capable?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:56 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 58):
So, my question remains: why wouldn't CX or IB fly HKG-MAD? both easily have the right equipment for it.

I think IB will eventually resume NRT, and start service to HKG. As you say, the connection potential from Asia to LatAm is huge. I think the recession that hit Spain didn't help either, or else Asia would have probably been online by now.

Also, there is not much left for IB in LatAm in terms of expansion. They are resuming MVD, SDQ later this year. Maybe one or two secondary cities are still left that could run profitably to MAD, but eventually they will be operating all they can from LatAm to MAD.

East Asia is next !

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!

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