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laca773
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:19 pm

An important thing to remember is the customer here. Smisek has repeatedly said, cuts have to be made, and from the looks of what they are serving in their premium cabins across the board, they have forgotten about the customer period. It's really sad.
Look at LAX. UA is nothing what it once was @ LAX. Their outdated 744s have been downgauged to a 788 on the NRT route, and SYD just went to a 77E. I suspect LHR will be downgauged to a 788.
They may have multiple flights to each of the Hawaiian Island destinations, but the service across the board is another bad joke.
The CR7s they operate on their longer UAEx flights (LAX-AUS/OKC/TUL/MSP, and etc. ) are not up to what the competition offers. It really sounds like they have lost focus all together.
Like many have said, it's time for a management shake up, retiring as many 50 seat CRJ/ERJs as they can asap. It's a shame they can't bring the 733/735s back into service that were retired for a period of time until they can get a/c replacements. It's a dysfunctional situation to say the least.
 
United1
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:23 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 149):
Am I missing something (entirely possible).

No my confusion this time around...you can't find out using the booking engine until you click on flight status closer into your flight. That will show you what is offered on the flight...sorry I book enough flights that I can usually tell what's going to be offered on the flight by looking at the aircraft type.

Quoting DDR (Reply 148):
So If UA is so great, why are they losing money when everyone else is making money? That is the question that no one can answer and that is the reason that there are concerns about UA.

Well I think it does tell you something however....in flight is not the problem. I think as others have pointed out on here its a revenue issue.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 146):
But his point isn't about public bashing. When UA's own employees, on their employee-only website, are questioning the excuses (and yes, they are excuses) being made by management without any real answers or plan given, then there is a serious problem, however you want to try to spin it.

I don;t disagree and I have said repeatedly that there needs to be a management shakeup. Specifically the CFO, guys in revenue management and the CEO need to go not that I think he really has that much of an impact but he is a figurehead for whats wrong.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
db373
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:37 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 47):
In some ways ahead and in some ways not so much...DL slapped a lot of lipstick onto a pig and made it look good they have only in the past year or so actually started turning their on board product structurally into a good one. UA is skipping the lipstick part...ooops.

Well maybe they should consider putting some make-up on their fugly face. Their stock priced dropped almost 10% in one day.....
Keep Delta My Delta
 
avek00
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:58 pm

Little noticed from the UAL conference call is management's use of "employees" instead of "coworkers". Subtle corporate acts of distancing and de-personalization often precede mass workforce reductions.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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Tigerguy
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:07 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 151):
The CR7s they operate on their longer UAEx flights (LAX-AUS/OKC/TUL/MSP, and etc. ) are not up to what the competition offers. It really sounds like they have lost focus all together.

What does American Eagle offer on its CR7 serving OKC-LAX? I've not taken that flight on either airline, so I'm curious as to what the differences are. Of course, that's just one route, and a smallish one; I imagine there are better examples for what you're trying to convey: throwing inadequate RJ equipment versus mainline or nicer RJs won't cut it.
Good night, and keep watching the skis. Uh, skies.
 
AirCalSNA
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:16 am

The very first thing United needs to do is to return its call centers to the United States.
 
tyler81190
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:39 am

Quoting avek00 (Reply 154):
Little noticed from the UAL conference call is management's use of "employees" instead of "coworkers". Subtle corporate acts of distancing and de-personalization often precede mass workforce reductions.

Scary thought, but I think they will wait until the 2 year mark for contractual reasons... After that date, they can limit their exposure to "bump and roll" and paying for moves should they decide to have vendors perform all ramp work for example. At the current time, sUA workers still have rights to above wing jobs should they be subject to furlough on the ramp.

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 156):
The very first thing United needs to do is to return its call centers to the United States.

Pipe dream... but it would be nice.
 
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coronado
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:07 am

I think Delta has most of its call centers in Canada and Minnesota. They should move them back to the United States too!!    .

Just kidding after 30 years in Minnesota I retired up north in the U.P. of Michigan!

Yah, you betcha!
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
T5towbar
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 146):
But his point isn't about public bashing. When UA's own employees, on their employee-only website, are questioning the excuses (and yes, they are excuses) being made by management without any real answers or plan given, then there is a serious problem, however you want to try to spin it. Clean airplanes do not make money, efficient and reliable operations and smart revenue management do, and right now UA cannot do either correctly, and more importantly, the management have not said or done anything to indicate they are serious about changing that.

When your workforce no longer trusts anything coming out of your mouth, it's pretty damn difficult to run a business.

After reading today's issue of Flying Together, it's the same stuff that we heard at the beginning of the year. Morale is really down, and with this announcement, it seems like more cuts will be coming quickly. Not good news for the employees, that's for sure. Where is the leadership? Even with the cuts we still lost money. A lot of questions with no definitive answers.

I can't wait to hear from Jeff next week when he makes his roadshow here.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
tyler81190
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 159):
After reading today's issue of Flying Together, it's the same stuff that we heard at the beginning of the year. Morale is really down, and with this announcement, it seems like more cuts will be coming quickly. Not good news for the employees, that's for sure. Where is the leadership? Even with the cuts we still lost money. A lot of questions with no definitive answers.

I can't wait to hear from Jeff next week when he makes his roadshow here.

I really wish all of his 80,000+ "employees" now, no longer co-workers, would send him an email, and demand an explanation of why he should remain in charge...
 
300CAP
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:28 am

Typical Jeff-row.. I am a CO lawyer not an airline exec results. Are we done with the B.S. and get an airline exec again at UAL. Delta, AAl, & SWA seem to have an airline exec. I am done. UAL did just fine without this BOZO!!!
 
AA94
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:51 am

Two words that come to mind when thinking about the current state of United are stagnation and indifference.

United seems indifferent to the fact that while competitors were posting record (or near record) profits, they posted a massive loss for the same time period. Jeff Smisek can continue his rhetoric about the evil weather patterns, but the reality is that most domestic airlines were facing similar weather situations to what United was. Atlanta, a city which has much less experience with winter weather than, say, Chicago or Newark, suffered a terrible winter, but DL somehow managed to post a sizable profit. Same story with American. It's bothersome that UA seems so indifferent to the fact that the obstacles they faced this quarter, at least weather-wise, are not wholly different from the obstacles faced by their competitors.

When I think about what UA has accomplished since their merger, I honestly can't think of all that much. They've introduced many "enhancements," and an ad campaign which totally ignores the harsh realities of these enhancements and instead focuses on more minor "friendly" things.

It doesn't seem to me that the people in Chicago really have a plan for the future. How long can we continue like this? Employees are down, understandably so. Results are unimpressive. How much longer can UA continue to be an uninspiring, stagnant company?
 
joeman
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:30 am

No worries....CLE ops are all gone in a few weeks except for the largest cherry picking "profit" makers so all problems solved
 
deregul8n
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:41 am

During the earnings call UAL never mentioned the amount of employees they have wrongfully laid off. April 1st, 111 subUA flight attendants were put on the street. Shame on United. Laying off employees because they can't even negotiate contracts with the unions that represent their employees. The work groups haven't even been presented with a contract to vote on. You can't blame the flight attendants because the company is dragging their feet. They can't do anything without anything to vote on. It's up to their management to be leaders. Until then people from sUA are without jobs or forced over to work for less money on reserve without the same income potential and schedule control they had because of managements poor leadership and inability to negotiate like professionals. This is a real life example of why UCH is a true mess: On a stormy night in IAH the subUA operation had only 1 reserve FA sitting airport standby. There were nearly 20 from the sCO "side". An A320 to SEA had an inbound crew divert to AUS. The inbond eventually canceled in AUS. The schedulers called this particular FA to work the last SEA flight. She goes to the gate and the other two FAs are coming in from ORD, deadheading down on a Dreamliner. Hours go by and the aircraft bringing in the two stews is still on the ground in ORD due to an ATC delay. United had at least 20 FAs sitting reserve at the airport plus the countless FAs at home sitting ready reserve that are trained and qualified to work an A320 yet, because management hasn't negotiated anything with the unions for the company to vote on, there was not a soul in IAH to work the United flight to SEA. The SEA flight eventually cancels. United must overnight the two inbound stews. That's money. Pay the stew that was waiting. Overnight the pilots, rebook the PAX. Two seats that could have been sold were used for the deadheading crew. Of course they documented this cancelation as a weather cancelation but if United had their bull stuff together and had the proper amount of staff or better yet presented their workers with something to vote on, those 138 paying passengers would not have been wronged that night. This was not a weather delay, this was an operational delay. Time and time again United gets away with things like this. I wonder how many times this happened with all the "WEATHER" in Q1. UA685/UA111 stay strong.
 
deregul8n
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:52 am

Moreover, those 757-222s that are going Bubye have soooo much more life in them. A true refresh would make them sexy again. Those birds are some of the most powerful and versatile in the sky. The interiors even with the "refresh" this current management is doing is embarrassing. Change the bulkheads, galleys, lavs, sidewalls and lighting is a refresh. New carpet and a few seat covers doesn't do the trick. The same 757s that are leaving have the exact same engines as the 15 ps planes that are staying. A few of the overwater birds have winglets also. No reason these planes should be leaving. United needs to hang on to every mainline aircraft they can. Get some airline people in their to run that company. It's so sad.
 
catiii
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting Deregul8n (Reply 164):

Not to get off the original topic, but you do realize there are two parties to a negotiation, right? The union has been equally incapable of negotiating a contract with UA. If you cared so much, why object to the voluntary crossover program?
 
kenanc
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:15 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Analyst 1: Your revenue performance is trailing the industry.
Smisek: We've got 787's.
Analyst 2: Your cost performance is trailing the industry.
Smisek: C'mon guys we've got 787's.
Analyst 3: Your merger doesn't seem to be producing any benefits.
Smisek: 7-8-7.

I'm sorry but... AHAHAHAHAHAH         
 
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ua900
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:19 am

Quoting Deregul8n (Reply 165):
Moreover, those 757-222s that are going Bubye have soooo much more life in them.

So what can employees do to convince mgmt that they should change their minds? Why aren't the revenue/ops analysts raising this issue with Wacker?

Quoting Deregul8n (Reply 164):
United had at least 20 FAs sitting reserve at the airport plus the countless FAs at home sitting ready reserve that are trained and qualified to work an A320 yet, because management hasn't negotiated anything with the unions for the company to vote on, there was not a soul in IAH to work the United flight to SEA.

That's a sad story. Does UA mgmt know that this is going on? If so, why didn't they stop sUA flights from going so much into sCO hubs and vice versa? I see so many 737s in SFO now and can't help but think that some of the 111 F/As you mentioned might be based in SFO. Given that it's a fortress hub of sUA, one would think that they'd leave sUA metal concentrated there so that places like IAH don't run out of F/As.

The move to send each other's planes to the other subsidiary's hub seems to have been premature given the types of issues you raise. Any plans in the pipeline to stop the bleeding and restore clean reliable air transportation?
2020: AMS | ATL | BRU | DAL | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | GUA | IAH | LAX | LIM | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SAL | SCL | SFO | TPA | TXL
 
UA444
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 92):

While I do agree that UA isn't going anywhere or out of business anytime soon, these results, and the consistent tone deafeness from upper management is alarming. UA should be destroying AA, DL, US in pretty much every metric. They have the tools, the network, and the people to do it.

I've flown UA practically my whole life. They were my favorite airline by a long shot. I enjoyed flying United. I was passionate about UA as an airline, a brand, their legacy, Mileage Plus, you name it.

Today, so little of it actually resembles United that I have pretty much lost interest. Couple that with the terrible service and the arrogant CEO running it into the ground, I have moved much of my flying elsewhere. Won't be making 1K this year. Pre-merger UA, like every airline, wasn't perfect, but they were a helluva lot better than this mess and what 99% of the a.netters gave them credit for.

UA can be great again, but they need to flush themselves of the management team and Jeff Smisek has got to go. It was rough during 9/11, the bankruptcy, and the 2008 recession. But this man in the past 4 years has been worse than those terrible moments combined. Half-assed hideous branding, terrible "enhancments" that drive away loyal customers, terrible IT switch, nickel and diming the simplest of things, ruining the MP program, the onslaught of RJs while dumping mainline planes, the sheer arrogance from shoving 787 down our throats, you name it.

I really do hope United Airlines soars again.



 
deregul8n
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:24 am

I don't think it's right that the company singled out the particular work group. Those who forced over took a huge loss in pay, because they are now all on reserve and the pay rate is a few dollars less at their seniority. They rotated reserve on the subUA side. They also must move if they were based in IAH. BOS LAS SEA NRT LHR HKG or FRA. The company does not assist in their move. Though they had a 78 hr reserve guarantee at SUA and 83 hrs rsv gaur at sCO they cant make up the lack of hrs during a line month because they wont hold lines at all for an indefinite amount of time. I blame the COmpany because they run the airline, not the unions. The unions are at fault too, don't get me wrong. They failed those flight attendants. Pay cuts when no one else is taking one isn't right. Layoffs when there are new hires at the airline isn't right. These FAs all had 7 plus years seniority.

[Edited 2014-04-24 20:29:15]

[Edited 2014-04-24 20:30:40]
 
laca773
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:31 am

Quoting Tigerguy (Reply 155):

What does American Eagle offer on its CR7 serving OKC-LAX? I've not taken that flight on either airline, so I'm curious as to what the differences are. Of course, that's just one route, and a smallish one; I imagine there are better examples for what you're trying to convey: throwing inadequate RJ equipment versus mainline or nicer RJs won't cut it.

They offer real food BOB for purchase, and have the F cabin with catering (not snack boxes). I think it comes down to the soft product.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:36 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 28):
History doesn't matter, this airline is NOT the old United or Continental. If their peers, who as others have said have nearly equally diversified and geographically centered networks, are posting huge gains, and UA cannot even break even, there is something fundamentally broken in the c-suite, plain and simple. There is really no reason an airline of this size and with these assets should not be printing money in this market, except for poor leadership and planning.

This pretty much sums it up.

Right now, I'm just glad that as a SEA flyer, UA isn't really an airline I will find myself on.
 
dc10co
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:53 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 171):
They offer real food BOB for purchase, and have the F cabin with catering (not snack boxes). I think it comes down to the soft product.

MQ does not offer any kind of real BOB for purchase in Y. F hands down they beat UA, but in Y MQ's offering is nothing to write home about. Pringles, nut mix, or a sad excuse for a cheese tray. Cash only!
Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone shit again.
 
wjcandee
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:54 am

Quoting 300CAP (Reply 161):
Typical Jeff-row.. I am a CO lawyer not an airline exec results.

Well...of course, Herb was/is a lawyer, and is still a member of the Texas Bar.

The great airline leaders didn't all follow any particular script. But what they bring to the table is imagination, leadership skills, understanding people, and a good sense of fiscal responsibility and the bottom line.

Gordon Bethune didn't even earn his college degree until he was 43 -- and by that time he was already the senior vp of operations at Piedmont. Perhaps his navy experience helped him develop his leadership skills. And it ain't necessarily bad for relations with the pilots that the guy was a pilot with a type rating on the 757/767. In short, an aviation guy through and through.

I think that running a great airline and integrating two airlines takes a special set of skills on top of that. Identifying, integrating, motivating, and retaining talent is obviously a big part of that.
 
Max Q
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:16 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 13):


Historically, during years that UA makes money, they loose money during Q1 and make it Q2, Q3 with a slight profit to break-even during Q4.

Sounds a lot like Pan Am..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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n901wa
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:02 am

wjcandee Just to add Gordon Bethune was also a Aircraft MTC Guy. I met him as a Kid when he was the VP of MTC at Western Airlines.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:11 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 110):
if those are your primary routes, you should've been loyal to US even before the merger(s)

Except that most of my flying was/is int'l, and US had a bs product/network... I routinely flew US and banked to UA though.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
olympic472
Posts: 141
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:54 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 28):
I'm one of the bigger UA supporters on this board, but lets be honest here. It's 3 years since the merger, and this airline has no direction to speak of. Stagnation and new seat covers does not represent a coherent business strategy, and they have made next to no progress in unifying the remaining labor groups. You can point fingers at the unions all you want, but a strong corporate leadership MAKES THINGS HAPPEN.

History doesn't matter, this airline - - - - - , there is something fundamentally broken in the c-suite, plain and simple. There is really no reason an airline of this size and with these assets should not be printing money in this market, except for poor leadership and planning.

Stock is already down 6.5%, lets hope it drops more to finally push the BoD to do something about this mess.

Wow, Pacific flying down year-on-year. This is a growth market, and with UA presence you must wonder what is going on with this airline.
United's ticket price is similar to other similar airlines, so no excuse there.
My take and stated by many Anetters:
product - dated and not competitive
network - only so much point-to point flying, the hub must be maintained and grown
service - poor management means poor training resulting in poor service
marketing - what? where? I actually loved the Gershwin jingle but now I cringe just hearing the tune (not even in a United ad)

Quoting UA444 (Reply 168):
While I do agree that UA isn't going anywhere or out of business anytime soon, these results, and the consistent tone deafeness from upper management is alarming. UA should be destroying AA, DL, US in pretty much every metric. They have the tools, the network, and the people to do it.

I've flown UA practically my whole life. They were my favorite airline by a long shot. I enjoyed flying United. I was passionate about UA as an airline, a brand, their legacy, Mileage Plus, you name it.

Today, so little of it actually resembles United that I have pretty much lost interest. Couple that with the terrible service and the arrogant CEO running it into the ground, I have moved much of my flying elsewhere. Won't be making 1K this year. Pre-merger UA, like every airline, wasn't perfect, but they were a helluva lot better than this mess and what 99% of the a.netters gave them credit for.

UA can be great again, but they need to flush themselves of the management team and Jeff Smisek has got to go. It was rough during 9/11, the bankruptcy, and the 2008 recession. But this man in the past 4 years has been worse than those terrible moments combined. Half-assed hideous branding, terrible "enhancments" that drive away loyal customers, terrible IT switch, nickel and diming the simplest of things, ruining the MP program, the onslaught of RJs while dumping mainline planes, the sheer arrogance from shoving 787 down our throats, you name it.

I really do hope United Airlines soars again.

         I am of the same sentiment as you, and I cannot state it any better.

Two more similar quarters and you have to think Pan Am.
Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
 
LouieP2186
Posts: 82
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:09 am

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 72):

Bottom line is the RJ's (145's and 200's) are killing us with cancellations

The 50 seaters should have been gone 5 years ago.......

Quoting BoeingBear (Reply 80):
You forgot to say "game changer." That's mandatory when referring to a UA 787.

Affirmative!  
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 107):
1) United has a revenue problem and an RJ problem

United uses the RJ's for too much uplift into the hubs.....DL and AA seem to have a nice mix of mainline and "larger" RJs feeding into the hubs depending on the city of course.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 108):
That's also already been done; SkyWest and Mesa are now doing the proving runs for 2-class 76 seats E175s. Your information seems to be rather dated.

Yet they are not arriving fast enough.....I see a huge problem in IAH if the E175 is the future RJ operation....southside B should have never been built the way it was if the 50 seat RJ is to be rid completely....
 
F9Animal
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:30 am

I think Smisek needs to be shown the door. UA needs a fresh start, with a major overhaul. To be honest, when I plan my travels, UA does not have any appeal to me. Bring back the tulip, and bring back a Friendly Skies campaign. It seems like UA has lost its identity. If I was in a coma for 10 years, and awoke at ORD, I think I would awaken and beg to be put back in a coma.

I am not bashing here in any way. Most of you know I love UA. However, the employees have been through enough already. Smisek is not going to fix losses by outsourcing, and demanding pay cuts. What is broke is not being fixed! Bring in someone that can fix it!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
questions
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:02 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 179):
I think Smisek needs to be shown the door. UA needs a fresh start, with a major overhaul. To be honest, when I plan my travels, UA does not have any appeal to me. Bring back the tulip, and bring back a Friendly Skies campaign. It seems like UA has lost its identity. If I was in a coma for 10 years, and awoke at ORD, I think I would awaken and beg to be put back in a coma.

I am not bashing here in any way. Most of you know I love UA. However, the employees have been through enough already. Smisek is not going to fix losses by outsourcing, and demanding pay cuts. What is broke is not being fixed! Bring in someone that can fix it!

And bring the tulip tail back!!
 
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par13del
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:01 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 70):
What I get from this is that too much express flying is a damper on Revenue. Which is exactly what a lot of people on here have been stating for a while.
Quoting apodino (Reply 111):
One thing I was thinking about. It is clear that UA has too many 50 seaters and this is dragging UA down. It is also well known that the majority of the ERJ's are operated by ExpressJet. SkyWest Inc has made no secret of the fact that they are losing a lot of money operating these flights for UA.

I am late to the party, but the losses that the Regional Carriers are experiencing, how is that booked to UA's Financials?
I always thought that to allow them to have different wage scales / rates for staff some isolation was in place.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 149):
o Seeing revenue strength domestically.

Any way to determine whether this strength is mainline overcoming the losses of the Reionals or the strength is a combination of both?

On a more general note, why is this so difficult? When the the merger was announced, the Yah's far out-numbered the "Nostalgic" Nay's who wanted to keep their beloved CO and UA.
Analyst and economic experts all over the place were able to point at the strengths, efficiencies, synergies etc etc that this merger would bring, employee trepidation was minimized as loyal customers were thrilled at the new options.
 
EricR
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:22 pm

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 107):

If people here are willing to listen to reason instead of beating their chests saying "Smisek must go"

Results not quite as bad as the hyperbole indicates and forward indicators are okay.

1) FCF of - $43 million was not awful - will be interesting to see how AAL comes in on this -- this is good news for forward bookings
2) Removing weather + currency effects (yen + Venezuela) shows YOY improvement in net loss, and much narrower operating loss
3) United always loses money in Q1 - I still expect them to be profitable (maybe even improve on 2013)
4) Share price and TTM ROIC metrics are still robust for UAL - this is why Smisek has a job
5) De-hubbing of Cleveland will save company $150-200 million annually (including elimination of 50-seat fleet)

Actually the results were bad. When most other airlines are reporting record profits and UA reports a loss, then the results were bad. Fortunately for UA, we are in a positive environment for airlines at the moment otherwise the loss would have been much worse.

Also, I am not clear on how you are correlating FCF to forward bookings. FCF is free cash flow.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24964
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:23 pm

Quoting olympic472 (Reply 177):
Wow, Pacific flying down year-on-year. This is a growth market, and with UA presence you must wonder what is going on with this airline.

 

Pacific flying is up 1.4%

In regards to Pacific revenues, like Delta, UA took a hit because of continued Yen depreciation.

Quoting par13del (Reply 181):
Any way to determine whether this strength is mainline overcoming the losses of the Regionals or the strength is a combination of both?

I would not term regional as loss making.
They actually said yields are higher with regional flying and fact that 80% of weather cancellations were on regionals which tended to have higher yields associated with them was the primary reason for the broader network RASM hit in Q1.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10446
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:29 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 183):
I would not term regional as loss making.
They actually said yields are higher with regional flying and fact that 80% of weather cancellations were on regionals which tended to have higher yields associated with them was the primary reason for the broader network RASM hit in Q1.

Thanks, I was basing some of my thoughts / questions on the comments about Skywest.
 
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tlecam
Posts: 1500
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:41 pm

I don't think that the sky is falling and that United is going the way of TWA or PanAm. The financial results are poor for this quarter, especially relative to their peers. They have a revenue problem and there are likely a lot of things contributing to that revenue problem. I don't think it's as easy as "regional flying" or "their hard product is behind" or "customer perception". Each of those things (plus others) probably does contribute in some way shape or form. The key (if I'm on the BoD, which I'm not remotely qualified for) is who will right the ship, what will his/her strategy be and who will execute the strategy?
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
catiii
Posts: 3682
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 185):
I don't think that the sky is falling and that United is going the way of TWA or PanAm. The financial results are poor for this quarter, especially relative to their peers. They have a revenue problem and there are likely a lot of things contributing to that revenue problem. I don't think it's as easy as "regional flying" or "their hard product is behind" or "customer perception". Each of those things (plus others) probably does contribute in some way shape or form. The key (if I'm on the BoD, which I'm not remotely qualified for) is who will right the ship, what will his/her strategy be and who will execute the strategy?

Bingo and well put. It's a combination of problems that are not insurmountable. It just takes good leadership...
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:32 pm

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 107):
5) De-hubbing of Cleveland will save company $150-200 million annually (including elimination of 50-seat fleet)

Wow. If they can save that much closing CLE, imagine what they could save if they closed DEN.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2107
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:37 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 28):
but lets be honest here. It's 3+ years since the merger, and this airline has no direction to speak of.

In a week, it will have been 4 years since the merger announcement. 4 years and there seems to be so much left to do.

Quoting catiii (Reply 186):
It just takes good leadership...

Which UA hasn't seen in many years.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:41 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 187):

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 107):
5) De-hubbing of Cleveland will save company $150-200 million annually (including elimination of 50-seat fleet)

Wow. If they can save that much closing CLE, imagine what they could save if they closed DEN.

Cost cutting alone isn't going to fix the deeper corporate issues at this airline. They are relying on regional jets for hub to hub flying. They are putting a/c on routes that can barely make it to save a few bucks. They refuse to innovate in anything except the fact CO was the first North American carrier to order the 787 and that order was in 2005.

Stop following and start leading.
 
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ramprat74
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:50 pm

On United's Flying Together website. They have 64 replies to the Q1 announcement. That's the most I have ever seen. The United Socialist Airline usually censor the employee's comments. They will even pull an article if they get too many negative comments. Why is it that the rank and file can see the problems with the new United, but the Willis Tower folks wearing the rose colored glasses think everything is just fine and will get better?

[Edited 2014-04-25 07:59:43]
 
unitedchicago
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2000 1:44 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:04 pm

Let's hire Alan Mulally as CEO since he's leaving Ford this year
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 190):
On United's Flying Together website. They have 64 replies to the Q1 announcement. That's the most I have ever seen. The United Socialist Airline usually censor the employee's comments. They will even pull an article if they get too many negative comments. Why is it that the rank and file can see the problems with the new United, but the Willis Tower folks wearing the rose colored glasses think everything is just fine and will get better?

************************************************************************************************************************************************
What are you talking about?? Most of those comments CAME from us that work at Willis Tower!! My girl Barb blasted managment with her frustration. and she's NOT Wrong either!!. Also?? Managment is downstairs.
Whether they're reading the comments I can't tell you but we're ALL frustrated with this BS! We should be kickin BUTT and takin' names!! Instead?? All we're seeing waffling and contract excuses. And after 4 years?? UNACCEPTABLE!!
 
T5towbar
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 181):
One thing I was thinking about. It is clear that UA has too many 50 seaters and this is dragging UA down. It is also well known that the majority of the ERJ's are operated by ExpressJet. SkyWest Inc has made no secret of the fact that they are losing a lot of money operating these flights for UA

SkyWest made money, but the ExpressJet side lost a whole lot of money. Plus the ExpressJet pilots voted down a concessionary TA as well. (can I say "whipsaw") What will SkyWest do with XJT is the question. (IMHO, I don't even know the reason why Skywest bought XJT after the ExpressJet / ASA merger in the first place) Surely it will (or has already) affect UA's regional operation, especially in the Eastern portion of the country. The CLE pulldown is a casualty of that.

This summer will tell the tale..... The 175's can't come fast enough. I also hope that Mesa will not have staffing problems as well. The regional industry is undergoing changes as well, since three large players turned down concessionary deals.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 165):
Not to get off the original topic, but you do realize there are two parties to a negotiation, right? The union has been equally incapable of negotiating a contract with UA. If you cared so much, why object to the voluntary crossover program?

At some point it's not the companies fault when an employee group don't want to move over... If someone said it's to the street or this... You think I'm gonna take unemployment? NO. So, the FA's who chose not to move over, sorry... You had options.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 179):
I think Smisek needs to be shown the door. UA needs a fresh start, with a major overhaul. To be honest, when I plan my travels, UA does not have any appeal to me. Bring back the tulip, and bring back a Friendly Skies campaign. It seems like UA has lost its identity. If I was in a coma for 10 years, and awoke at ORD, I think I would awaken and beg to be put back in a coma.

Bring back pre 1996 Union days- AGREED.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 179):

I am not bashing here in any way. Most of you know I love UA. However, the employees have been through enough already. Smisek is not going to fix losses by outsourcing, and demanding pay cuts. What is broke is not being fixed! Bring in someone that can fix it!

While upper management does need a reshuffle. the front line also need to realize they are just as responsible as any one else. Each person plays a vital role in getting a job done, and if that person or people cannot do it, they need to be replaced. At some point each person needs to take ownership and responsibility for their decisions and make a change. Not happy? Go somewhere you will be.
 
catiii
Posts: 3682
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 194):
At some point it's not the companies fault when an employee group don't want to move over... If someone said it's to the street or this... You think I'm gonna take unemployment? NO. So, the FA's who chose not to move over, sorry... You had options.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt the UA side of AFA work to block the voluntary crossover program?
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 168):
While I do agree that UA isn't going anywhere or out of business anytime soon, these results, and the consistent tone deafeness from upper management is alarming. UA should be destroying AA, DL, US in pretty much every metric. They have the tools, the network, and the people to do it.

On the earnings call yesterday, one of the analysts asked Jeff if it may be the case that there are deeper structural problems with United, such that it cannot make as much money as its peers.

Maybe, when we looked at this merger years ago and thought how great the new United network would be, with the best geographic distribution of domestic hubs and the best international franchise, we may have gotten something wrong. For instance, domestic growth and revenue helped both AA and DL this quarter. It wasn't much help to United because a lot of United's domestic capacity is provided by regional carriers and those flights, as has been United's practice for years, were more subject to weather cancellations with little backfill from mainline.

Reminds me of something that Bob Crandall said, something to the effect that this is a domestic business first and foremost. Seemed like the thing to say after seeing PanAm disintegrate. Still, it makes one wonder, if Bob was right, what does that mean today. Indeed, despite what almost everyone said here about US adding nothing to the old AA, the new AA with a much stronger domestic network seems better positioned to thrive than United.

[Edited 2014-04-25 09:25:25]
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 190):
On United's Flying Together website. They have 64 replies to the Q1 announcement. That's the most I have ever seen.

It's telling how upset employees are right now. Management has already lost, the workforce doesn't and will not trust them again. This is what plagued UA for so many years before the merger, how they ended up in Ch 11 and lingered at the bottom for so long. It's sad really, there was so much potential with the merger, and it's all been pissed away by arrogance and incompetence at the top.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 194):
While upper management does need a reshuffle. the front line also need to realize they are just as responsible as any one else. Each person plays a vital role in getting a job done, and if that person or people cannot do it, they need to be replaced. At some point each person needs to take ownership and responsibility for their decisions and make a change. Not happy? Go somewhere you will be.

The people on the front line are trying to do their best as possible. Even with bad morale. Even with lack of support. Even through all of the things going on in the background, people are doing their jobs and taking responsibility and doing their best for the customer. It's the leadership who isn't supporting us.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 197):
It's telling how upset employees are right now. Management has already lost, the workforce doesn't and will not trust them again. This is what plagued UA for so many years before the merger, how they ended up in Ch 11 and lingered at the bottom for so long. It's sad really, there was so much potential with the merger, and it's all been pissed away by arrogance and incompetence at the top.

It's really sad.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
LouieP2186
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:15 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:50 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 193):
I also hope that Mesa will not have staffing problems as well

I have heard that Mesa does not have enough pilots so I fully expect staffing issues.......

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