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ramprat74
Posts: 1355
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:12 pm

Did we post any cargo revenue numbers? I feel this is another piece of the pie that took a big hit because of the outsourcing. The sUA side lost tons of customers when they outsourced cargo years ago. I hear the same thing when they just recently did the sCO cargo. We should had never outsourced the cargo warehouses in the hubs and large line stations period. In my station years ago, we had contracts with pretty much every nursery, mushroom farm, berry farm, wholesale fish companies in my area. We are lucky if we see a few boxes of mushrooms a week these days. They all ship with the other airlines now because of the vendors and RJ's we fly now.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:29 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 200):
Did we post any cargo revenue numbers? I feel this is another piece of the pie that took a big hit because of the outsourcing. The sUA side lost tons of customers when they outsourced cargo years ago. I hear the same thing when they just recently did the sCO cargo. We should had never outsourced the cargo warehouses in the hubs and large line stations period. In my station years ago, we had contracts with pretty much every nursery, mushroom farm, berry farm, wholesale fish companies in my area. We are lucky if we see a few boxes of mushrooms a week these days. They all ship with the other airlines now because of the vendors and RJ's we fly now.

Down 7.9 percent.

I know the outsourcing didn't help at all. An award winning operation (on the sCO side) reduced to shambles.........
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:54 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 38):
The airline has so much potential and it is sad to see it slowly going down. I fly UA a lot, and I do agree with what someone said earlier about people bringing UA's flaws out of proportion. Yes, the numbers are red, but I do believe that things will get better at UA. All the mistakes have been made, and hopefully the UA management has learned from them and can now start climbing uphill.

This isn't game over.


Avi8

It is very serious. The decline in PRASM means loss of a key support for the type of Global Network UA has; they need that level of unit revenue. The discord characteristic of the past 3 years is continuing. I just flew UA again, to Asia and the brand is now just plain flat. Nothing to get excited about and ongoing mistakes. A 7 hour transpac flight with no IFE for ANYBODY, because the new Panasonic streamer was down. Catering noticably downgraded. My employees had INFURIATING delays last week, slept in the airport, collegues experiencing the same.

Ongoing cost cutting and operational mistakes are degrading the brand to where it can't get the unit revenue to survive, it is a negative self re-enforcing cycle.

Next Quarter will be the important one, very important, but I just don't see PRASM going up as the reasons for its decay are still there.
 
panamair
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:02 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 202):
Next Quarter will be the important one, very important, but I just don't see PRASM going up as the reasons for its decay are still there.

Well, UA will be profitable in Q2 barring any unforeseen circumstances...the only question is how profitable, especially relative to its peers. In terms of PRASM for Q2, the guidance given yesterday was for an increase of about 1 -3%, all driven by domestic (PRASM increase expected in the 4-6% range), which means international PRASM will be down. Right now, domestic US is on fire for everyone, and those with bigger domestic networks will benefit more.

[Edited 2014-04-25 16:03:29]
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:05 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 197):

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 190):
On United's Flying Together website. They have 64 replies to the Q1 announcement. That's the most I have ever seen.

It's telling how upset employees are right now. Management has already lost, the workforce doesn't and will not trust them again.

This statement you just made, though undoubtedly true / has an interesting inconsistency with the one you make afterwards / that is worth examining.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 197):
This is what plagued UA for so many years before the merger, how they ended up in Ch 11 and lingered at the bottom for so long.

The inconsistency is the kind of woes now at UA predate the current management. There is a broad companywide inertia that needs fixing. Ordinarily competent management may not be enough. This will require an outstanding leader, another Bethune.
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:09 pm

I just returned from a business trip DC-NYC-DC on Amtrak. Wednesday on the way to NYC when the train stopped in EWR some people got on with a lot of luggage and were going to NYC. They sat near me and we started talking. They live somewhere not far from EWR but were going into Penn Station in NYC and take the Long Island Railroad to Jamaica and on to JFK rather than deal with UA at EWR. They were going to fly DL Business Class from JFK-Europe rather than deal with UA. They told me that the ride into NYC wasnt long enough to go into their list of complaints against UA and at least 2 of the people are approaching 1 million miler stauts with UA and they dont care if they ever make it they are fed up. They said that the change to RJs was a problem but there were plenty other UA problems too.

I have to say that gave me an idea about leaving from JFK for a trip to Italy later this year.

So one has to wonder what other major, below radarr l, in plain view kind of ,l leakage from UA to other carriers around the country. It is a really sad story about what is going on at UA. It wasnt that many years ago they were near the top of their game.

[Edited 2014-04-25 16:14:50]

[Edited 2014-04-25 16:16:12]
 
ual777
Posts: 1641
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:12 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 193):

SkyWest made money, but the ExpressJet side lost a whole lot of money. Plus the ExpressJet pilots voted down a concessionary TA as well. (can I say "whipsaw") What will SkyWest do with XJT is the question. (IMHO, I don't even know the reason why Skywest bought XJT after the ExpressJet / ASA merger in the first place) Surely it will (or has already) affect UA's regional operation, especially in the Eastern portion of the country. The CLE pulldown is a casualty of that.

They wil sign a new contract and get bigger airplanes. Shrink in overall fleet numbers but EV will eventually get 175s. With huge bases in ORD and EWR, of course they would have a rough month or two.


Mesa's cancel rate this month is already worse than EV's, once you look past the first week of the month.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:31 pm

Quoting ual777 (Reply 206):

Mesa's cancel rate this month is already worse than EV's, once you look past the first week of the month.

Yes.......unfortunately, contracting with Mesa to do some of their RJ flying will only add to UA's woes. I commented on this several months ago when the news was originally announced.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 204):

You're right. I think several of the sUA employees were favorable of the merger because it had a shot of breaking that trend of inept management, and the performance of team in charge now has soured the morale even further. I fear that even with a new c-suite, it will be many years before the average employee puts any faith in their leadership.
 
TPA0822
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:52 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 57):
Stock is plummeting, down 11% now...is this the end of Jeff?

I've said this on other threads, but suite simply, the answer is yes. UA needs new leadership to turn its oprational issues around.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:50 pm

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 205):
I just returned from a business trip DC-NYC-DC on Amtrak. Wednesday on the way to NYC when the train stopped in EWR some people got on with a lot of luggage and were going to NYC. They sat near me and we started talking. They live somewhere not far from EWR but were going into Penn Station in NYC and take the Long Island Railroad to Jamaica and on to JFK rather than deal with UA at EWR. They were going to fly DL Business Class from JFK-Europe rather than deal with UA. They told me that the ride into NYC wasnt long enough to go into their list of complaints against UA and at least 2 of the people are approaching 1 million miler stauts with UA and they dont care if they ever make it they are fed up. They said that the change to RJs was a problem but there were plenty other UA problems too.

Well EWR is a mess right now, with all of the construction. It's funny that you mentioned Amtrak. The EWR Rail Station will be closed during the AirTrain construction, which will require express buses that will run between Newark Penn Station to the Terminals A;B;C. That's another mess to deal with for all carriers here.

Quoting ual777 (Reply 206):
They wil sign a new contract and get bigger airplanes. Shrink in overall fleet numbers but EV will eventually get 175s. With huge bases in ORD and EWR, of course they would have a rough month or two.

They must gonna offer them something good. 83% no votes spoke volumes. It must be a non concessionary deal then.
INC. is supposed to fly the the first order. Is this a carrot to XJT?

Quoting EricR (Reply 207):
Mesa's cancel rate this month is already worse than EV's, once you look past the first week of the month.

Yes.......unfortunately, contracting with Mesa to do some of their RJ flying will only add to UA's woes. I commented on this several months ago when the news was originally announced.

I heard about staffing issues, and that why I wanted to know who was or is going to fly them? SkyWest is the most stable regional out there, and with the new rules, most of the regional pilots want the whipsaw stopped and will not take any concessionary deals. I am hoping this summer won't be a nightmare, not just for UA, but for every body else.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
laca773
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:56 pm

Quoting TPA0822 (Reply 209):
've said this on other threads, but suite simply, the answer is yes. UA needs new leadership to turn its oprational issues around.

Very true, and I believe UA Employees in the rank and file, will agree. What is it going to take to make these changes? See UA on the verge of bankruptcy again?
 
Max Q
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:33 am

These results are unforgivable, amazing how long an incompetent Ceo can stay in power, Tilton at the old UA and now Smisek at the new one, they both just seem to have led charmed lives.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
777ord
Posts: 681
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:44 am

Quoting LouieP2186 (Reply 199):
I have heard that Mesa does not have enough pilots so I fully expect staffing issues.......

That's nothing compared to mainline. They're giving out senior maning pay (200% "OT") left and right. Throw in July 4th and just cringe at the site of it. Management pilots will be out in full force. If THE chief is flying, so are his colleagues.

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 202):
Next Quarter will be the important one, very important, but I just don't see PRASM going up as the reasons for its decay are still there.

Expect to see some drastic changes. They're already coming- Can't elaborate.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:20 am

Everyone and their brother can make a profit in Q2 and Q3.

A few years back, DL used to always report a loss in Q1. One year they tried to fly a bunch of rediculous Trans-Atlantic capacity during the winter and lost a ton of money. After that experiment, they significantly cut back in winter capacity and outright said, we are not going to make a ton of money in Q2,3,4 and give it all back in Q1.
 
coairman
Posts: 156
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:50 am

Can someone tell me simply what is the source of UA's loss? Whats the bottom line? Low revenue or high costs? Or both?
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting coairman (Reply 215):

Can someone tell me simply what is the source of UA's loss?

Flying airplanes filled with passengers. It sounds counterintuitive, but true.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3046
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:09 am

Quoting coairman (Reply 215):
Can someone tell me simply what is the source of UA's loss? Whats the bottom line? Low revenue or high costs? Or both?

Bad management from top to bottom. Poor customer service from when you check in to boarding the aircraft to flying in the aircraft to deplaning the aircraft...basically the people who work there are not very nice and should all be let go but you can't do that so you end up with this mess.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
avek00
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:24 am

IMO, going forward United would be better served with a leader experienced in retail in a competitive marketplace, such as upscale apparel and consumer goods. The current President of Nordstrom, Blake W. Nordstrom, would be a solid fit. He's 52, and has led Nordstrom to outperform its chief competitors and analyst earnings estimates.

Rethinking and leading United broadly along the idea of "Nordstrom with wings" makes sense. United's operating hubs are located in upscale economic markets, the airline historically caters heavily to business traveler clientele, and a revival of the customer experience analogous to what one receives when shopping at Nordstrom is essential for United to compete effectively against international and revived domestic competitors. It also helps that the sourcing and merchandising expertise, and commercial tie-in possibilities Blake Nordstrom can bring from his own industry relationships would be nothing short of mind-boggling. Above all, Nordstrom gets "the vision thing", and can hire the ops and financial experts needed to translate the vision into a reality liked by customers, employees, and shareholders.

UA needs a chief executive committed to making the airline a great place to spend our travel dollars. It has not had that sort of leadership at any time in the 21st century. Hopefully the United BOD can convince someone like Nordstrom to take the helm.
Live life to the fullest.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1619
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting avek00 (Reply 218):
IMO, going forward United would be better served with a leader experienced in retail in a competitive marketplace, such as upscale apparel and consumer goods. The current President of Nordstrom, Blake W. Nordstrom, would be a solid fit. He's 52, and has led Nordstrom to outperform its chief competitors and analyst earnings estimates.

Rethinking and leading United broadly along the idea of "Nordstrom with wings" makes sense. United's operating hubs are located in upscale economic markets, the airline historically caters heavily to business traveler clientele, and a revival of the customer experience analogous to what one receives when shopping at Nordstrom is essential for United to compete effectively against international and revived domestic competitors. It also helps that the sourcing and merchandising expertise, and commercial tie-in possibilities Blake Nordstrom can bring from his own industry relationships would be nothing short of mind-boggling. Above all, Nordstrom gets "the vision thing", and can hire the ops and financial experts needed to translate the vision into a reality liked by customers, employees, and shareholders.

UA needs a chief executive committed to making the airline a great place to spend our travel dollars. It has not had that sort of leadership at any time in the 21st century. Hopefully the United BOD can convince someone like Nordstrom to take the helm.

I have heard it floated on several webpages and from friends and family and I agree- Alan Mullaly who is retiring from Ford and was previously at Boeing; He is a bit older but could be a good fit.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3583
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 200):
Did we post any cargo revenue numbers?
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 201):
Down 7.9 percent.

When you look at the revenue list, cargo is a drop in the bucket in the big picture. It can't be a big money maker, if it is profitable at all.

For comparison, DL was down 9% and AA was up 4.9% in cargo revenue. All three legacies were pretty close on total cargo revenue (UA = $209m, DL = $217m, AA/US = $206m). You'll have to find another bone to chew here.

Quoting coairman (Reply 215):
Can someone tell me simply what is the source of UA's loss? Whats the bottom line? Low revenue or high costs? Or both?

The short answer is some of both. I see it as a majority cost problem that's turning into an ever larger revenue issue on top of it. Tough spot to be in. But at least the first thing that needs to be improved (basic operations) has been trending up in the past year or so.
 
UA444
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:44 am

Alan Mulally was in consideration back in 2002 before Glenn Tilton was hired. The problem now is that he's 68 years old and I'm pretty sure he is retiring. He would be a great CEO for United, I have no doubt about. Sadly, it's more like 10 years too late.
 
avek00
Posts: 3227
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 221):

Alan Mulally was in consideration back in 2002 before Glenn Tilton was hired. The problem now is that he's 68 years old and I'm pretty sure he is retiring. He would be a great CEO for United, I have no doubt about. Sadly, it's more like 10 years too late.

Mulally would make a great independent Chairman for United, and Nordstrom a great CEO.
Live life to the fullest.
 
coairman
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:31 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:50 am

EricR ...... I think you being sarcastic. Not nice. What I am asking is what details in financial performance between DL, AA and UA starkly showing the contrasts in performance. It will help define precisely what UA needs to focus on to become profitable.

[Edited 2014-04-25 21:10:06]
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
b377
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:51 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:12 am

Quoting coairman (Reply 215):
Can someone tell me simply what is the source of UA's loss? Whats the bottom line? Low revenue or high costs? Or both?

I think that the reason for the shortfall on the revenue side, a reason that no one seems to pick up on, is that US stopped selling codeshares on UA the 1st of Jan 2014 and started to place that revenue on AA.

In a recent statement from AS indicated that DL was responsible for about 5% of their revenue, could the US be part of the revenue shortfall at UA be close to their shortfall of 2%?
 
UA444
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:20 am

Quoting b377 (Reply 224):
I think that the reason for the shortfall on the revenue side, a reason that no one seems to pick up on, is that US stopped selling codeshares on UA the 1st of Jan 2014 and started to place that revenue on AA.

In a recent statement from AS indicated that DL was responsible for about 5% of their revenue, could the US be part of the revenue shortfall at UA be close to their shortfall of 2%?

They were lagging in revenue long before US went to OneWorld. Their problem is simply the fact they drove away their highest paying "over-entitled" customers and are now paying the price.
 
b377
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:51 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:29 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 225):
Their problem is simply the fact they drove away their highest paying "over-entitled" customers and are now paying the price.

I agree with you completely that UA has been driving their HVP away for some time.

But I have to believe that the US revenue share to UA via codeshares now stopped, has to be part of UA's revenue shortfall.
 
UA444
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:32 am

Quoting b377 (Reply 226):
But I have to believe that the US revenue share to UA via codeshares now stopped, has to be part of UA's revenue shortfall.

If it had any effect, it's minor, since not even Jeff pulled that one out his bag of excuses yesterday. If they were reliant on US for a substantial amount of revenue, they are even more bone headed than we thought, since they've known US was going away for over a year now.

The loss of US does hurt customers though, especially those traveling in the SE.

[Edited 2014-04-25 22:33:32]
 
b377
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:51 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:41 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 227):
If it had any effect, it's minor, since not even Jeff pulled that one out his bag of excuses yesterday. If they were reliant on US for a substantial amount of revenue, they are even more bone headed than we thought

You are absolutely right. I think if Jeff had used that excuse with the Wall Street folks, they may have bought in to it!
 
LouieP2186
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:15 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:08 am

Quoting 777ord (Reply 213):
That's nothing compared to mainline. They're giving out senior maning pay (200% "OT") left and right. Throw in July 4th and just cringe at the site of it. Management pilots will be out in full force. If THE chief is flying, so are his colleagues.

That does not surprise me but I have not seen it directly yet. Just on the XE side of things...OO seems to be handling it just fine. I have heard stories about Mesa though hopefully it is just a rumor.....
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:05 pm

Quoting b377 (Reply 226):
I agree with you completely that UA has been driving their HVP away for some time.

But I have to believe that the US revenue share to UA via codeshares now stopped, has to be part of UA's revenue shortfall.

Here again if that in fact is part of the picture of the recent earnings report than it seems that gpoing forward management does not have a plan to some how develop a strategy for making up that lost revenue. UA knew for a long time that the day was coming when the UA/US codeshare was going to end.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 218):
IMO, going forward United would be better served with a leader experienced in retail in a competitive marketplace, such as upscale apparel and consumer goods. The current President of Nordstrom, Blake W. Nordstrom, would be a solid fit. He's 52, and has led Nordstrom to outperform its chief competitors and analyst earnings estimates.

Rethinking and leading United broadly along the idea of "Nordstrom with wings" makes sense. United's operating hubs are located in upscale economic markets, the airline historically caters heavily to business traveler clientele, and a revival of the customer experience analogous to what one receives when shopping at Nordstrom is essential for United to compete effectively against international and revived domestic competitors. It also helps that the sourcing and merchandising expertise, and commercial tie-in possibilities Blake Nordstrom can bring from his own industry relationships would be nothing short of mind-boggling. Above all, Nordstrom gets "the vision thing", and can hire the ops and financial experts needed to translate the vision into a reality liked by customers, employees, and shareholders.

UA needs a chief executive committed to making the airline a great place to spend our travel dollars. It has not had that sort of leadership at any time in the 21st century. Hopefully the United BOD can convince someone like Nordstrom to take the helm.

Amazingly just the other day I was thinking about this. I was going to DCA to pick up someone and at the very last minute their RJ flight was canceled and they arrived in DCA 12 hours later. Anyway I stopped at Nordstroms in Pentagon City and as usual had the most outstanding customer service. Just amazing! I got to thinking wouldnt it be really nice if UA had that time of customer service or at least learn from the Nordstrom example including how they totally reinvented and improved themselves after a very, very rough spell a number of years ago.

UA could learn from Nordstrom but I seriously wonder if Blake Nordstrom would leave the family business to take over UA.
 
unitedchicago
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2000 1:44 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 221):
Alan Mulally was in consideration back in 2002 before Glenn Tilton was hired. The problem now is that he's 68 years old and I'm pretty sure he is retiring. He would be a great CEO for United, I have no doubt about. Sadly, it's more like 10 years too late.

From WSJ:

Mr. Mulally hasn't told the full Ford board what he plans to do next, according to one person familiar with the company.

Mr. Mulally likely will seek "another active engagement as a CEO" or a full-time executive chairman probably at a major U.S. manufacturer, said Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, a senior associate dean at Yale School of Management who knows Mr. Mulally.

So he's open to another CEO role and seriously discussed the Microsoft role. Yes he's older but I'll take even 3 years of his leadership.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:13 pm

Quoting DC10CO (Reply 172):
MQ does not offer any kind of real BOB for purchase in Y. F hands down they beat UA, but in Y MQ's offering is nothing to write home about. Pringles, nut mix, or a sad excuse for a cheese tray. Cash only!

Just curious - what does UA offer in F on LAX-OKC? I've taken this route in AA F (well MQ F, whatever) multiple times. You get a solid meal, usually tasty. Wife is vegetarian and MQ rarely has veg entrees, but they do a reasonably good job of accommodating her and making sure she has something to eat. Served all at once of course but complete with salad and dessert. Plus free booze which isn't top shelf but good enough for regional F. Is UA snack basket only? Sheesh.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting coairman (Reply 223):

EricR ...... I think you being sarcastic. Not nice. What I am asking is what details in financial performance between DL, AA and UA starkly showing the contrasts in performance. It will help define precisely what UA needs to focus on to become profitable.

The point I was trying to make was that they have many issues contributing to their lagging performance relative to the other legacies. I don't think you can point to one or two issues, but a combination of several including:
- corporate culture
- integration issues
- heavy reliance on regional flying
- lagging on board product
- customer service
- labor rates ex-BK that are higher than DL & AA ex-BK
- hubs in ultra competitive or delay prone markets
- redundant hubs: do you need both LAX&SFO as hubs? I understand you want to maintain share in two large metro areas, but it is inefficient to have hubs (think connections) so close together. IAD and EWR fall into the same category. It is an expensive proposition to have hubs so close in proximity to each other that serve similar traffic flows.

Many of the issues I listed above cannot be quantified in dollar terms. Nevertheless, they contribute to an overall lagging performance by UA.
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:28 am

Quoting unitedchicago (Reply 231):

So he's open to another CEO role and seriously discussed the Microsoft role. Yes he's older but I'll take even 3 years of his leadership.

Well he knew Airlines as customers and capital intensive manufacturing at Boeing and succeeded.

He applied that to capital intensive manufacturing and direct consumer sales at Ford.

So he has the tools to run an airline for sure now, all based covered.

But I doubt he'll take it. My 2 cents.

Ivan
 
flyfree727
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:11 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:36 am

WOW!!!

234 replies to date about the loss at UAL...and ALREADY a thread about when UAL will file BK!!!!!

lets see.. also to date:

AS post Q1 profit : 29 replies
WN post Q1 profit: 10 replies
AA post Q1 profit: 41 replies
DL post Q1 profit: 70 replies

SAD... sad..

CONGRATULATIONS to Alaska, Southwest, American, and Delta!!!

Well done!!

AA ORD

[Edited 2014-04-26 18:36:57]

[Edited 2014-04-26 18:38:01]
 
coairman
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:31 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:23 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 233):

Good points. Thanks. I actually disagree now that UA has poor customer service. The customer service has improved dramatically. Shares is not an issue anymore. Most agents are proficient in shares and/or the windows based program.

LAX is a concern as it does compete somewhat with SFO. I am curious if all the Hawaii flying out of LAX on UA is profitable. Anyone thinks Ua LAX Hawaii flying makes money? If not, it should be axed and passengers can be routed via UA's powerhouse hub of SFO. SFO is truly the only dominate and legitimate west coast hub.
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
slider
Posts: 7480
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 197):
It's telling how upset employees are right now. Management has already lost, the workforce doesn't and will not trust them again. This is what plagued UA for so many years before the merger, how they ended up in Ch 11 and lingered at the bottom for so long. It's sad really, there was so much potential with the merger, and it's all been pissed away by arrogance and incompetence at the top.

Whoa--there are well over 100 responses now...

People are pissed. Frankly, I'm amazed that employees are willing to pen their names to these comments. Speaks to the level of frustration out there. You can read the employees are just craving true leadership.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:50 pm

Quoting coairman (Reply 236):
I actually disagree now that UA has poor customer service.

Are you a UA employee? If so have taken a look at Skynet lately? Most months(including April so far) UA cant even reach its internal customer satisfaction promoter score!

Then add in all the industry customer survey rankings where UA pulls up in last place.

Quoting coairman (Reply 236):
The customer service has improved dramatically.

Yes better then the immediate days after the PSS cutover, but its still rather mediocre still in the grand scale.

Quoting coairman (Reply 236):
Shares is not an issue anymore. Most agents are proficient in shares and/or the windows based program.

There is much more to Shares that is an issue besides front end users. There are pricing, inventory management issues which continue to linger, plus all the gremlins which are holding up the new website launch.

Quoting coairman (Reply 236):
LAX is a concern as it does compete somewhat with SFO

How does LAX compete with SFO? LAX is 80-85% local enplanements, while SFO is under 50% local enplanements. Two very different functions. Routes out of LAX primarily local demand, while SFO is reliant on connectivity for its network.

Quoting coairman (Reply 236):
I am curious if all the Hawaii flying out of LAX on UA is profitable. Anyone thinks Ua LAX Hawaii flying makes money? If not, it should be axed and passengers can be routed via UA's powerhouse hub of SFO. SFO is truly the only dominate and legitimate west coast hub.

UA is the largest airline to Hawaii, and largest airline from LA to Hawaii. They would not be operating 10 odd flights a day to the islands if they were not making money on them. Anyhow the yields to Hawaii are quite good in recent years, even HA is putting more capacity into the West Coast is its most profitable segment for them.

And as far as forcing people to transfer at SFO, no sane LA customer will route to Hawaii via SFO when there are 30 odd nonstop flights from LA already.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17788
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 235):
234 replies to date about the loss at UAL...and ALREADY a thread about when UAL will file BK!!!!!

To be fair, UA does attract an inordinate amount of stupidity, like a thread about UA filing bankruptcy, for example.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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ua900
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 232):
Just curious - what does UA offer in F on LAX-OKC? I've taken this route in AA F (well MQ F, whatever) multiple times. You get a solid meal, usually tasty. Wife is vegetarian and MQ rarely has veg entrees, but they do a reasonably good job of accommodating her and making sure she has something to eat. Served all at once of course but complete with salad and dessert. Plus free booze which isn't top shelf but good enough for regional F. Is UA snack basket only? Sheesh.

If it were mainline, it would be a meal, albeit not a special meal as UA axed special meals on most domestic routes. They always offer free booze, not top shelf, same as AA. The CRJs don't have ovens or cooled carts. Thus, on a CRJ it will be a comped snack box. Snack baskets are mainline only, but the box is actually better than a basket. Here's an overview, the ones for $7.99/8.99 whatever: www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/inflight/economy/menu.aspx

Quoting coairman (Reply 236):
LAX is a concern as it does compete somewhat with SFO. I am curious if all the Hawaii flying out of LAX on UA is profitable. Anyone thinks Ua LAX Hawaii flying makes money? If not, it should be axed and passengers can be routed via UA's powerhouse hub of SFO. SFO is truly the only dominate and legitimate west coast hub.

I'm sure it makes money as UA has been diligent cutting routes that don't. LAX has been scaled back somewhat but is a good place for 787s. It's odd to see 320s and 752s replaced by 738/9s at LAX yet they send 787s. CO is much bigger there than before the merger. LAX is actually more likely money to spend on flashy bling bling things like J seats than SFO, but much of that goes to the likes of LH and NH because of the generous elite matches that are in place. UA would be well advised to switch their int'l flying to TBIT instead of T6/7 and up their soft product. AA is doing just that. Sure UA could concede LAX, disband LHR and transpacific flying and shift all that to SFO, but then they would take even more of a beating at LAX and loose about 5-10% of their market share there. LAX isn't BUR, SAN or FAT.
2018: AMS | ARN | CDG | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | GUM | HAM | HKG | HNL | IAH | LAX | MIA | MUC | ORD | RSW | SAL | SFO | SIN | TLV | TXL | VIE | ZRH
 
bgm
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:02 pm

Quoting coairman (Reply 236):
Thanks. I actually disagree now that UA has poor customer service. The customer service has improved dramatically. Shares is not an issue anymore. Most agents are proficient in shares and/or the windows based program.

I could not disagree more.


SHARES:
I have had so many issues with their reservation system, especially any reservation involving partner segments (SHARES does not communicate well to other reservation systems). Had 2 reservations where the 1st flight arrived a day after the 2nd fight departed! Every single time involves a lengthy phone call, passing back and forth between different departments trying to fix the problem with insane amounts of keyboard tapping. I felt quite sorry for the agents because they were clearly as frustrated as I was. It's sad that these good people do not have the tools to give good customer service.

Onboard:
I took several flights on pmCO aircraft, where the pilots and flight attendants still kept referring to the airline as Continental, not United. This is very unprofessional, but shows how divided the 2 sides are. IFE is a crapshoot, wifi hardly works. Took another flight will crew welcoming us aboard "legacy United".

I've had enough bad expeiences with UA that I no longer give them my business. It's sad how 2 great airlines have become 1 terrible one.  
OK boomer.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17788
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:06 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 241):
I took several flights on pmCO aircraft, where the pilots and flight attendants still kept referring to the airline as Continental, not United. This is very unprofessional, but shows how divided the 2 sides are. IFE is a crapshoot, wifi hardly works. Took another flight will crew welcoming us aboard "legacy United".

When? That stopped after the pilot contract was settled, surprise 
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
catiii
Posts: 3232
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 241):
I took several flights on pmCO aircraft, where the pilots and flight attendants still kept referring to the airline as Continental, not United. This is very unprofessional, but shows how divided the 2 sides are. IFE is a crapshoot, wifi hardly works. Took another flight will crew welcoming us aboard "legacy United".
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 242):

When? That stopped after the pilot contract was settled, surprise

Agreed. Going to call BS on that one. I haven't heard that in a long long while.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3562
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 237):
People are pissed. Frankly, I'm amazed that employees are willing to pen their names to these comments. Speaks to the level of frustration out there. You can read the employees are just craving true leadership.

Union employees are protected by their contracts, if you look in the org chart that is where the majority of the comments comes from. Most mgmt folks have these conversations with their managers instead. I understand for front line employees who often don't have someone to talk to about these things going to the boards though, it's their only place to vent.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2213
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:10 pm

The fact we see the staffing completely jacked (the example of the cancelled IAH-SEA flight described above highlights this) is a symptom of the dysfunction of UA. Yes both sides are at fault to an extent but management has a job to do which is run an efficient operation and if you have to deadhead crews from ORD when you have trained sCO crews at IAH on reserve ready to go you fail from an operations perspective.

Complete the friggin integration and realize the mythical savings you Jeff harped on in 2010. The number of excuses his team comes up with is beyond comical and they seem to think the other airlines were not affected by things such as the weather.

Brilliant leadership.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:23 pm

...and in other news, Toyota decided to relocate its US headquarters to Plano, even though Gulf States Toyota was based in Houston, and San Antonio is where the trucks are manufactured. I'm sure the corporate planners must have done a mental calculation, "We could be in the Woodlands, or we could be in Plano. Well, if we're in Plano we fly American, but if we're in the Woodlands we fly United..."
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1619
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 246):
...and in other news, Toyota decided to relocate its US headquarters to Plano, even though Gulf States Toyota was based in Houston, and San Antonio is where the trucks are manufactured. I'm sure the corporate planners must have done a mental calculation, "We could be in the Woodlands, or we could be in Plano. Well, if we're in Plano we fly American, but if we're in the Woodlands we fly United..."

West Houston is also their regional transport hub for parts going to San Antonio and many other locales.

However, while air travel can be a factor in relocations I doubt the choice of carrier had any factor in their choosing Plano. It is most likely because they like the drug scene there (just kidding-old joke).
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14154
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 246):
...and in other news, Toyota decided to relocate its US headquarters to Plano, even though Gulf States Toyota was based in Houston, and San Antonio is where the trucks are manufactured.

Gulf States is a completely separate corporate entity and there's not a lot of demand for travel to and from Gulf States. Good try, though.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
UA444
Posts: 2788
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RE: United Posts Hefty Q1 Loss

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:40 pm

Did it occur to you that the threads on the other airlines didn't get as much coverage because they managed not to suck at runni

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 246):

The cost of business in CA and the taxes is ridiculous. Nissan moved out of So. Cal years ago and its' only a matter of time before Honda does now too.

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