kl911
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KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:53 pm

KLM has a picture on their facebook page of a 777 in KLM Asia livery. I thought this was not needed anymore in order to fly to TPE.
When did they change the livery etc on this 777 and how many are in this livery?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:56 pm

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
how many are in this livery

That would be 2x 777-300ER and 7x 777-200ER.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
hooverman
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:02 pm

It's about 2 years ago. First a few 77E's and recently I saw a picture of a 77W also with Asia markings.
Don't know how many.
 
kl911
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Thanks guys. Is this just KLM being friendly to China where they are a big player, or is it really compulsory? Do other EU airlines still have this?
 
MEA-707
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:07 pm

The first sighting of a KLM Asia 777 was in february 2012. In total 7 772ERs and 2 77Ws have been seen with KLM Asia titles since.
It's interesting to still see KLM have a separate identity unlike BA, JAL etc. and even the Chinese airlines operating flights into Taiwan and vv. My theory is that the current pro-business government of the small Netherlands is overly cautious not to step on long toes. A big country like Japan or the UK can be more like, ok take it or leave it, while the Netherlands might be more intimidated when the Chinese threaten to cut KLMs (relatively expansive) rights to fly to China and are too eager to please the Chinese.
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hooverman
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4):

These are exacly my thoughts. Just keep the Chinese happy and make a future expansion go as smoothly as possible.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4):
My theory is that the current pro-business government of the small Netherlands is overly cautious not to step on long toes.

Maybe it's just for nostalgia's sake? I think it's kind of nice.
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skipness1E
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:53 pm

Aren't they the only airline from Europe serving Taipei? Hence the need?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:07 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 6):
Maybe it's just for nostalgia's sake? I think it's kind of nice.

Or it will be removed during the next maintenance overhaul. Why doing an expensive paint job for something that does not harm?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Viscount724
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Do other EU airlines still have this?

Other EU airlines have no need for it as KLM is the only European carrier serving both Taiwan and the PRC.
 
hooverman
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:24 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
Or it will be removed during the next maintenance overhaul. Why doing an expensive paint job for something that does not harm?

They just recently added the markings on the 77W so the expensive paintjob is allready done.
As MEA-707 pointed out it is more likely done to please the Chinese even if it is not really nescessary.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Do other EU airlines still have this?

Other EU airlines have no need for it as KLM is the only European carrier serving both Taiwan and the PRC.

Only EU carriers needed the special markings?
 
txlbased
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:43 am

Quoting hooverman (Reply 10):

Only EU carriers needed the special markings?

didn´t NW has something like Northwest Orient? was this just a "title" or an AOC by itself?
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UA444
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:04 am

Quoting txlbased (Reply 11):

I think they were legally Northwest Airlines on the AOC. They dropped the "Orient" name after acquiring Republic.
 
infinit
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:42 am

There was a thread about this about a year ago.

I felt it strange, that KLM, the oldest airline to use its original livery would be willing to modify such a strong brand. Of course SQ doesn't have the same problem with the ASEAN-China open skies agreement but SQ will never change a drop of ink on their livery or their brand to suit a market. It's the integrity of the brand.
 
[email protected]
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:10 am

Don;t quote me on that, but I've heard once that KLM Asia has a lot of Asian based crew cost less than the AMS based ones
 
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kl5147
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:01 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
Why doing an expensive paint job for something that does not harm?

KLM even revised the KLM-ASIA markings as can seen on PH-BQM. PH-BQFand most others still sports te old markings

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aerorobnz
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:19 am

I first photographed back in July 2013 when I visited AMS. I recall my good friend who I stayed with saying they were recent then.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
777klm
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:59 am

Quoting hooverman (Reply 5):
These are exacly my thoughts. Just keep the Chinese happy and make a future expansion go as smoothly as possible.

This is what I've always been told, but it doesn't make much sense to me as KL and KL Asia aircraft both fly into TPE and Mainland China. Truth is that they added the ASIA titles to a part of the 777 fleet from the moment the 777 was deployed on the TPE route.


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KLM Asia @ PEK (L), KLM @ PEK (R)


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ATLFlyer323
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:25 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 13):
I felt it strange, that KLM, the oldest airline to use its original livery would be willing to modify such a strong brand. Of course SQ doesn't have the same problem with the ASEAN-China open skies agreement but SQ will never change a drop of ink on their livery or their brand to suit a market. It's the integrity of the brand.

Really, you honestly believe that? SQ would without a doubt paint a few extra drops of ink on their planes if it meant not being banned from flying to China, the EU, or the USA if it were to be the case.

-ATLFlyer323
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hooverman
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting 777klm (Reply 17):

That is strange. All I can think of is that the plane with asia markings went tech and they had no other plane to substitute.
The mystery continues
 
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cougar15
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting hooverman (Reply 10):
They just recently added the markings on the 77W so the expensive paintjob is allready done.
As MEA-707 pointed out it is more likely done to please the Chinese even if it is not really nescessary.

Funny that, my 772ER flt to GRU in Mai last year was on an ´Asia´ marked bird...! seems they are ´getting around´....
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
hooverman
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 20):

Yeah they use them everywhere when convinient.
 
skipness1E
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:54 pm

I have seens the B777s below with the ASIA titles :
PH-BQF PH-BQH PH-BQI PH-BQK PH-BQL PH-BQM PH-BQN
PH-BVB PH-BVC
 
infinit
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:27 am

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 18):

The PRC Chinese didn't mandate that KLM create this new brand, KLM did it to appease the Chinese.. It took SQ more than 10 years in Star Alliance to even agree to use the latter's logo on their Star Alliance livery planes- they insisted on using their Keris before.
 
Viscount724
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:48 am

Quoting txlbased (Reply 11):
Quoting hooverman (Reply 10):

Only EU carriers needed the special markings?

didn´t NW have something like Northwest Orient? was this just a "title" or an AOC by itself?

No, Northwest Orient Airlines was their marketing name for the entire airline for years. It had nothing to do with China or Taiwan. It was just to promote their service to that part of the world. Their legal name was always Northwest Airlines (Airways originally).
 
LJ
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:24 am

Quoting hooverman (Reply 19):
That is strange. All I can think of is that the plane with asia markings went tech and they had no other plane to substitute.

AFAIK both PH-BQB and PH-BVF don't carry Asia titles as well but were recently in TPE (and the PH-BVF is heading for TPE today.
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:31 am

KLM Asia (Chinese: 荷蘭亞洲航空公司; pinyin: Hélán Yàzhōu Hángkōng Gōngsī) is a wholly KLM owned subsidiary registered in Taiwan. KLM started operations to TPE in 1982/3. But KLM Asia was established in 1995 in order to operate flights to Taipei, Taiwan, without compromising the traffic rights held by KLM for destinations in the People's Republic of China.

In 1982/3 KLM was the first European airline to fly to Taiwan and in that same year Amsterdam Schiphol Airport was the first European destination to welcome China Airlines, which operated B747SP aircraft initially TPE-DXB-AMS and later also on TPE-JFK-AMS routings. The initial KLM and CAL operations were very sensitive as the Netherlands had offended China in the early 1980s, by selling submarines to Taiwan. If CAL needed to divert it was only permitted to divert to Dutch airports, hence Maastricht has seen CAL B747SP flights. Regretfully no pictures in database.


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KLM started operations from AMS to Taiwan in 1982/3 in cooperation with Martinair, using KLM aircraft but the MP flight code. Timetables presented the route as a MP operation. Though this was changed relatively quickly to KL coded flights.

KLM Asia was created much later in 1995 (12 years after operations to TPE started) when KLM first wished to introduce flights to the PRC. At that time (and perhaps still today) no European, Japanese or Australian airline was permitted to operate to both China and Taiwan. These airlines needed to distinguish their PRC routes from Taiwan routes, so a separate airlne was required. In this period a number of European airlines opened routes to Taiwan (all since halted apart from KLM), and thus also created special subsidiaries under the "Asia" name with the sole purpose of flying to Taiwan, while maintaining links with the PRC. These special airlines were launched without the national symbols (flags, crowns, etc.) of the original flag carrier.

These special airlines included Japan Asia Airways (a Japan Airlines subsidiary), Air France Asie (Air France), British Asia Airways (British Airways), Swissair Asia (Swissair), and Australia Asia Airlines (a Qantas subsidiary).

As the regulation still applies today - after more than 30 years of TPE operations - and as the sole European carrier to operate to both the PRC and Taiwan, KLM still maintains the KLM Asia identify.

The livery of KLM Asia does not feature Dutch national symbols, such as the flag of the Netherlands, nor does it use KLM's stylised Dutch Crown logo. Instead, it features a special KLM Asia logo. KLM Asia has 7 Boeing 777-200ER, and 2 Boeing 777-300ER all rotating routes within the KLM fleet.

KLM Asia initially operated the Amsterdam-Bangkok-Taipei route with a B747-400 Combi or a B747-400 pax. aircraft. Since March 2012, KLM Asia has operated the revised Amsterdam-Taipei-Manila route with Boeing 777-200ER/-300ER aircraft.
 
stAOdCt
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 26):
At that time (and perhaps still today) no European, Japanese or Australian airline was permitted to operate to both China and Taiwan.

The rule can't be still in place, as JAL no longer uses the Japan Asia Airways brand to fly to Taiwan. And if my memory is correct, ANA never had a stand alone brand for Taiwan.
 
LJ
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:58 pm

Quoting stAOdCt (Reply 27):

The rule can't be still in place, as JAL no longer uses the Japan Asia Airways brand to fly to Taiwan. And if my memory is correct, ANA never had a stand alone brand for Taiwan.

That's probably correct, but KL has a more direct nonstop route between Europe and TPE then the nonstop CI flights to Europe (I think they save around 1 hour less flying time). Thus maybe the CHinese don't requie it, but they may apreciate it (and if it saves 1 hour flying then it's even worthwhile).
 
hooverman
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RE: KLM Asia 777, Since When?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 26):

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

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