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washingtonflyer
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New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:53 pm

So yesterday I got my first experience of JFK in a very, very long time. Had a meeting at Customs at JFK, so it made sense to fly direct to JFK on Eagle.

Interesting place and architecture, although I felt they really were stapling on the Eagle gates at the end of the terminal (gate 31).

Looking at the map of JFK, it seems that the current terminal 8 was a replacement to old terminals 8 and 9 with the old terminal 8 being more to the east and north of current terminal 8. There seems to be a lot of storage area now on the ramp between T8 and the JFK Expressway.

Has AA or PANYNJ considered building an "express" terminal or facility near the JFK for loading bridges for CRJ200s, ERJ145s and maybe 175? Would probably free up room for three or four mainline gates and add some RJ space. Perhaps create a hold room near gate 16 for shuttle buses over to the express terminal?

[Edited 2014-04-25 05:54:42]
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:18 pm

The original plan was for a larger T8 than is currently in use. It still has the potential to be built out and speculation is that BA will be the one to build it out so they can move from T7 when their lease is up. Here's a link to the original T8 plans:

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/jfk/jfk11.html

With RJ's on the way out, I don't see a pressing need for AA to build out a regional concourse, especially now that PHL will be the primary NE connection complex and JFK will most likely be reoriented for O&D from larger markets with fewer connections.
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LAXintl
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:30 pm

What you see today is not the full envisaged T-8.

Construction was cut short due to economic issues.


More info in these threads:
Opening For The New JFK Terminal 8 (by AA787 Apr 26 2005 in Civil Aviation)
AMR/OW Expansion Of T-8 At JFK (by planetime Aug 12 2010 in Civil Aviation)
An Analysis Of The Future Of Terminal 8 At JFK (by washingtonian Jul 6 2011 in Civil Aviation)

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flyinghippo
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:36 pm

The original plan makes the current Terminal look like a half finished product! I hope they will expand T8 since there's so much wasted space now.
 
commavia
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:53 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Thread starter):
Interesting place and architecture

Personally, I think it's one of the nicest international terminals in the U.S. today - and definitely one of the nicest, if not the nicest, terminals at JFK.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Thread starter):
although I felt they really were stapling on the Eagle gates at the end of the terminal (gate 31).
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
With RJ's on the way out, I don't see a pressing need for AA to build out a regional concourse, especially now that PHL will be the primary NE connection complex and JFK will most likely be reoriented for O&D from larger markets with fewer connections.

  

I agree that the Eagle "box" bolted on to the far end of the midfield concourse does look architecturally and stylistically disconnected from the rest of the terminal. (Although, I will say, in practice, it seems like it functions just fine for Eagle's operations, at least when there aren't major weather/ATC issues.)

However, I also agree that much of the Eagle operation at JFK is probably not long for this world, anyway, so the point may well be moot. My personal expectation is that within a few years there is likely only going to be a pretty small amount of Eagle left at JFK, probably just operating a handful of routes - 3-4x daily YUL, 3-4 RDU, 2-3 DCA (with another 1-2 mainline), and maybe a couple other flights, but that's it, with the rest of the slots currently used for Eagle being largely transitioned to mainline flying as the JFK operation is reoriented towards catering to O&D.

In this scenario, Eagle would not need anywhere near the size of facility it has now - probably no more than, say, 2-3 jetbridges, and they could probably reconfigure the entire 31/32 ramp area at the end of the midfield concourse to not only accommodate the entire Eagle operation, but probably squeeze in another 1-2 mainline gates.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Thread starter):
Looking at the map of JFK, it seems that the current terminal 8 was a replacement to old terminals 8 and 9 with the old terminal 8 being more to the east and north of current terminal 8. There seems to be a lot of storage area now on the ramp between T8 and the JFK Expressway.

As already mentioned - that big open ramp storage area to the northeast of the terminal was, indeed, the location of the old Terminal 8, and it's also the other (un-built) half of the new main terminal. (If you look at the satellite/Earth view on Google Maps, you can actually still see the different coloration of the concrete that traces the outline of the old Terminal 8's A concourse.)

What is most likely to happen with that space at some point down the road - probably 5+ years - is that it's built out for use by BA and the other oneworld carriers now operating out of Terminal 7.

[Edited 2014-04-25 06:56:08]
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:09 pm

T8 is a great space, aside from the up and down escalator arrangement to get to the air side gates where Envoy resides. Originally this was to be a train arrangement as is evidenced by the large wide corridor leading to the down escalators, and split corridor where elevator's are to the Admirals Club on the air side concourse. The building to most wont look unfinished , unless you take notice of the temporary exterior clad wall headed up the ramp to departures. The interior wall where the mural is is a huge band-aid. Its quite funny. There has been activity to price out the original, removed portion of the plans in today's dollars, so someone is preparing for this internally.
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:16 pm

If T8 gets expanded for other OW members, what would happen to BA owned T7?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:13 pm

there was never supposed to be a train in terminal 8

the terminal as envisioned would have extended the concourse into the empty area

there would have been two regional concourses near the highways

the current Eagle set upwas constructed after the regional concourses were scrapped

as for the anet rumor that JFK will be restructured it is just an anet rumor

I got off a flight from Milan last week and the flight attendant was busy reading off lots of connections most on Eagle

those flights feed the international flights

as an American pilot told me....management may not be thrilled with jfk profitability however they know that New York is not going to connect in Philadelphia and they don't want to lose the New York market

for those flights to work you are going to need some feed

and then there are the slots that they just accepted from jetblue as permanents payment for DC slots

long story short the slots are valuable and they are not going to lose them
 
commavia
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:22 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
as for the anet rumor that JFK will be restructured it is just an anet rumor

I got off a flight from Milan last week and the flight attendant was busy reading off lots of connections most on Eagle

Well you call it "just an anet rumor," but based on what I've seen and heard, senior AA leadership - including Kirby - have pretty much already intimated as much - that the NYC operation was going to be reoriented more towards O&D and less connections. And it seems entirely logical.

Much as some want to keep arguing otherwise, it just seems obvious to me. Of course the reorientation of the JFK slots hasn't happened yet, but then the merger just occurred less than six months ago. Long-term - I think it's inevitable, and a great thing - there is no need to waste peek JFK slots on 90-minute RJ flights.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
those flights feed the international flights

as an American pilot told me....management may not be thrilled with jfk profitability however they know that New York is not going to connect in Philadelphia and they don't want to lose the New York market

for those flights to work you are going to need some feed

Nobody said anything but cutting international flights or the NYC O&D market - quite the opposite. The point is that you don't need to feed the JFK flights with connections from CMH and PIT. Let those connections flow over PHL. And instead exchange those connections for more international flights, and connections to international flights, from mainline jets arriving from higher-yielding and/or larger markets. Put simply: let CMH, PIT, IND, CVG, CLE, etc. connect to Europe over PHL, and concentrate connections to Europe from LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS, PHX, and other large markets at JFK.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
and then there are the slots that they just accepted from jetblue as permanents payment for DC slots

long story short the slots are valuable and they are not going to lose them

Again - nobody is suggesting AA is going to "lose them," but rather that AA is going to use them to their greater potential. Flying an ERJ from JFK to IND or CVG or BWI once a day is not necessarily the optimal use of a slot.
 
jfk777
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:38 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
The original plan was for a larger T8 than is currently in use. It still has the potential to be built out and speculation is that BA will be the one to build it out so they can move from T7 when their lease is up. Here's a link to the original T8 plans:

The end of BA's lease in 12/31/2015, there has been little news of BA movong to T7 or building their wing at T7. 18 months is not long to build something BA needs at JFK.
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
Much as some want to keep arguing otherwise, it just seems obvious to me. Of course the reorientation of the JFK slots hasn't happened yet, but then the merger just occurred less than six months ago. Long-term - I think it's inevitable, and a great thing - there is no need to waste peek JFK slots on 90-minute RJ flights.

And do what with the slots Commavia? You and I have discussed this over and over and over again. What destinations are they going to fill the (what is it 30?) RJ flights a day with at JFK? LFs are high on these flights. Is mainline going to start flying RDU from JFK? Are there 20 more destinations in Europe to serve? We know the Caribbean is out. Florida? More California?

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
The point is that you don't need to feed the JFK flights with connections from CMH and PIT.

Sure you do! Are you kidding? You think NYC can support 4 flights a day from JFK to MXP all by itself?? Why do you think Pan Am, TWA, Delta all had lots of once a day flights to JFK.




Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):

The end of BA's lease in 12/31/2015, there has been little news of BA movong to T7 or building their wing at T7. 18 months is not long to build something BA needs at JFK.

Right. BA hasn't done anything yet. I believe some BA management guy was quoted as saying they were looking into it a few years ago. That's the last I've heard of it
 
commavia
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
And do what with the slots Commavia? You and I have discussed this over and over and over again. What destinations are they going to fill the (what is it 30?) RJ flights a day with at JFK? LFs are high on these flights. Is mainline going to start flying RDU from JFK? Are there 20 more destinations in Europe to serve? We know the Caribbean is out. Florida? More California?

And I've offered my personal idea - over and over.

First off, at least according to FlightStates Eagle today operates 27 daily departures out of JFK, with the preponderance of those (18) timed to realistically handle connections from Europe (I'd figure it's probably around the same ~15-20 that also realistically connect to Europe). I could see that 27 falling to, say, 15, flying only to YUL, DCA (some flights, others mainline) and maybe 1-2 other cities - that's it. The remainder of the JFK Eagle markets - CVG, CLE, CMH, IND, BWI, ORF, etc. - I could see simply ceasing to be flown as those connections simply shift to PHL. With those remaining slots, I could see AA either directly reallocating or attempting to trade them for slots to reallocate to adding nonstop flights from JFK to multiple new international (EDI, FRA, TLV, possibly DME) and domestic (PHX 4th daily, SAN 2nd and/or 3rd daily, SEA 2nd and/or 3rd daily, SJC)

It's total speculation on my part and none of it may ever come to pass, so feel free to rip it apart and tell me what it's all crazy and makes no sense, but I guess there should no longer be any need (don't think there was before) to ask what I think will happen. Above is what I offer (as I have previously) as a potential hypothetical vision for what I, personally, believe is a virtual certainty: the reorientation of the JFK operation towards relatively more O&D and relatively less connections.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
Sure you do! Are you kidding? You think NYC can support 4 flights a day from JFK to MXP all by itself?? Why do you think Pan Am, TWA, Delta all had lots of once a day flights to JFK.

  

Yet again ... I'm not saying they don't need domestic connections to fill longhaul international flights. What I (and others) have suggested - repeatedly - is that while AA in general prioritizes more O&D at JFK, with the connections they do stil obviously handle there they can at least simultaneously also prioritize higher-volume and or higher-premium domestic connections to transit over higher-cost JFK to feed longhaul and send the smaller-market connections over PHL, which has dramatically larger economies of scale.

Bottom line: in general reorient the entire operation to be more geared towards O&D and less towards flights that are almost entirely for connections (i.e., something tells me there isn't a very large O&D component to a single daily ERJ JFK-BWI).

[Edited 2014-04-25 17:03:52]
 
jfk777
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:55 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
Right. BA hasn't done anything yet. I believe some BA management guy was quoted as saying they were looking into it a few years ago. That's the last I've heard of it

One reason could be that BA is waiting for teh AA/US merger to close, now that it has I hope BA announces something soon. BA T 7 needs to go like the Pan Am worldport.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:41 pm

I thought BAs lease on T7 ends in the next year or two...
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
2nd and/or 3rd daily, SJC)


I think SJC would be a good addition to AA's JFK routemap

[Edited 2014-04-26 14:59:46]
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Revelation
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
BA T 7 needs to go like the Pan Am worldport

I don't buy it. BA has been putting money into upgrading T7 periodically, and it likes very much having its own terminal that it can control. Putting it another way, wouldn't AA like to have its own terminal at London's premier international terminal, LHR?

A thread from a year ago: Future Of JFK Terminal 7? (by 1337Delta764 Jul 23 2013 in Civil Aviation)
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commavia
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:32 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
I don't buy it. BA has been putting money into upgrading T7 periodically, and it likes very much having its own terminal that it can control.

I'm sure BA does like having its own terminal at JFK, its single most important longhaul outstation, that it can control. But I'm sure BA would also like providing faster, more convenient and more seamless transfers for the surely thousands of BA passengers per month that transfer at JFK to reach points beyond on AA.

While I agree that BA clearly has sunk substantial investment into T7 over the years, I - personally - still think that terminal is suboptimal for the operational realities of today, as opposed to decades ago when it was built. While T7 is certainly functional - and far nicer than the old T3 used to be - in my experience it can get cramped and overrun, particularly in the evening rush when there's a BA 747 or 777 launching every 30-60 minutes. While T7 doesn't necessarily look "dated" per se, I find T8 so much nicer.

In addition, as it relates to "control," I'm sure BA, AA and the PA can work out some sort of mutually-acceptable arrangement with respect to "control" of the new pier at T8. As it is, I'm sure the pier would cater near-exclusively to BA and its existing T7 oneworld tenants (Iberia, Cathay, QANTAS, etc.), at least during the evening rush, and I have no doubt that full provision would be made to give BA the requisite space to build new, spacious lounges to its specifications.

Bottom line: I've been in terminals (including at JFK) far, far worse than T7, but on balance I think it's likely that T8 would offer a far superior economic and operational proposition to BA, and a substantially improved experience for its customers, which is why I personally do expect that some form of deal to eventually move BA to T8 will happen at some point.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
Putting it another way, wouldn't AA like to have its own terminal at London's premier international terminal, LHR?

I doubt it highly. In fact, if it had been given the choice a decade or more ago, I'm sure AA would have loved nothing more than to move into BA's T5 at LHR both because it's far nicer than T3 and because AA now exchanges so many connections with BA at LHR that it would really ease the transfer process for all those passengers (who now have to go downstairs and take a bus across the airfield). Having connected between T3 and T5 numerous times, I think it's fair to say that the bus arrangement between terminals is functional, but grossly suboptimal when compared with the experience at other European and global airports (including fellow IAG hub MAD).

[Edited 2014-04-26 15:33:58]
 
ldvaviation
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:42 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
Right. BA hasn't done anything yet. I believe some BA management guy was quoted as saying they were looking into it a few years ago. That's the last I've heard of it

There may be more to this than has been made public.

There was a recent post on flyertalk by someone who claimed to work for an architectural firm that was asked to bid by BA on design work related to a T8 wing.

The work went to another architectural firm. So that is all the person knew firsthand.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
BA has been putting money into upgrading T7 periodically, and it likes very much having its own terminal that it can control.
BA has done nothing substantial to the terminal as a whole since 2003. And that takes into account the $30 million BA spent in 2008 on upgrading premium lounges as part of a systemwide program.

Moreover, the prevailing factors at JFK are not control of its own terminal, but more integration with JV partner AA and competition from DL and VS, which have collocated in T4. Those factors make a BA move to T8 quite likely.

[Edited 2014-04-26 15:43:48]
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:52 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
In fact, if it had been given the choice a decade or more ago, I'm sure AA would have loved nothing more than to move into BA's T5 at LHR

Thank you for your comments. My thoughts are that perhaps you are right in that BA was trying to be more of an up-market brand than AA was a decade ago (think Concorde), and even more so today when AA is being run by Doug Parker, so it probably wasn't a great comparison for me to introduce. I guess I long for the days where AA thought of itself as an up-market brand...

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 17):
Moreover, the prevailing factors at JFK are not control of its own terminal, but more integration with JV partner AA and competition from DL and VS, which have collocated in T4. Those factors make a BA move to T8 quite likely.

Time will tell. Developing the other half of T8 will be tremendously costly. I understand that PANYNJ funds a lot of that, but then they get it back via increased lease rates. I still wonder from BA's point of view whether having a unique experience at JFK is more important to their goals than making connections at JFK easier. I also don't think BA fears VS's integration with DL tremendously.
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jfk777
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:00 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
I don't buy it. BA has been putting money into upgrading T7 periodically, and it likes very much having its own terminal that it can control. Putting it another way, wouldn't AA like to have its own terminal at London's premier international terminal, LHR?

BA's days of its own terminal at JFK are numbered. T7 has had tons of $$ in renovations but its still was not designed to handle 7 744 in 4 hours. Even with al the renovations can't hide its 1970's orgins. BA needs to be under the same roof at both JFK and LHR.
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:36 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
that the NYC operation was going to be reoriented more towards O&D and less connections.

We were told at JFK recently that the new AA plans to grow the domestic feed over the next couple of years, then eventually use that feed to grow the international operation. Many have worried that JFK would go by the wayside in favor of PHL, but the new management said New York is far too important to relegate as a secondary city. Hopefully that means good things are to come for JFK. As for now, AA mainline begins operating a 738 between JFK and DCA next month. I would absolutely love if the same happened for RDU. But for now I'd just be happy to see a CR7 between JFK and RDU. An E175 would blow my mind!  
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ldvaviation
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:41 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
I also don't think BA fears VS's integration with DL tremendously.

If BA was not concerned with what DL and VS are doing, then why was the decision made to pull all angled, lie-flat seats (AA 772's) from the JFK-LHR market? That resulted in the substitution of one AA frequency with one BA frequency. As was reported on flyertalk, the AA 772 will be back when it gets the new J retrofit. Clearly, someone at BA cares about these things.
 
commavia
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:29 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
I guess I long for the days where AA thought of itself as an up-market brand...

Have you seen what the inside of AA's new A321s and 777s look like? Looks pretty "up-market" to me!

As a passenger in both the BA longhaul J on the 747 and 777 (numerous times) and new AA 777 longhaul J offerings, I think the AA hard product wins hands down and honestly AA has made such leaps and bounds in terms of soft product offerings - mainly food quantity and quality - in recent years that it's getting closer on soft product, too.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 20):
We were told at JFK recently that the new AA plans to grow the domestic feed over the next couple of years, then eventually use that feed to grow the international operation.

  

As said - I believe the JFK operation will be reoriented more to cater to the local NYC local O&D market which is of course massive and quite premium, and the emphasis with connections will be shifted away from small, once-daily ERJ flights to cities already well-connected to PHL and instead towards different, higher-volume domestic markets. Personally, I also definitely see international growth - again, I think EDI/GLA, FRA, and TLV are entirely possible, and perhaps even DME.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 20):
but the new management said New York is far too important to relegate as a secondary city.

  

Absolutely. I don't think - and have never thought - that AA is or was going anywhere in the NYC market. On the contrary, this merger gives AA a greater opportunity, even net of the LGA slot divestitures, to enhance and optimize its NYC presence like it hasn't had in a very long time, if ever.
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
BA's days of its own terminal at JFK are numbered. T7 has had tons of $$ in renovations but its still was not designed to handle 7 744 in 4 hours. Even with al the renovations can't hide its 1970's orgins. BA needs to be under the same roof at both JFK and LHR.

Unfortunately, the big question for whether or not BA would move to T8 is that, if you actually look at it spatially, there's not actually very much space to expand into. I drew up a quick CAD map to test it out and there's about enough space for six new gates maximum. Maybe they can finagle a gate or two in there, but if AA plans to increase further the utilization of current gates, on top of US traffic moving from T7, it doesn't leave a lot of room left for BA to move it's prestigious and tightly-controlled operation wholesale to Terminal 8. In fact, without US, it probably leaves a little more room for BA at T7 if it's as congested of an operation as I keep hearing. (Never flown it.)

JFK is a fun airport to bring into AutoCAD and test out different scenarios because of all the parameters you have to work within, but having looked at it a bit now, I'm not sure a fully-built T8 would handle seven 747s much better if it had to compete with the AA's 77Ws.
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:31 pm

Quoting IcelandairMSP (Reply 23):
Unfortunately, the big question for whether or not BA would move to T8 is that, if you actually look at it spatially, there's not actually very much space to expand into.

I've often thought this myself - nice to see a more professional take on it. The unbuilt portion of the T8 site is large, but fitting the remaining Oneworld operations from T7 there might be a bit of a squeeze. In the terminal headhouse there's probably room for two more check-in islands, but when you consider the need for separate (and more spacious) F/J check-in areas for BA and CX, space will be more limited.

The added gate count is reasonable (six or seven should be enough) but factor in the need for lounge space and it becomes squeezed there as well.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting IcelandairMSP (Reply 23):
on top of US traffic moving from T7,

Based upon current schedules, US needs only one gate at JFK.

The only overlap that I see is late evening arrivals at JFK where one PHX-JFK flight arrives at 11:15 pm and one CLT-JFK flight arrives at 11:58 pm. I imagine that they either use a second gate here or tow the PHX-JFK flight away from the gate to RON - freeing up the single gate.
 
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting IcelandairMSP (Reply 23):
Unfortunately, the big question for whether or not BA would move to T8 is that, if you actually look at it spatially, there's not actually very much space to expand into.

There's plenty of space to physically expand the terminal, which is exactly what BA plans to do. I think it even showed some concept art when the idea was first unveiled about two years ago.
a.
 
IcelandairMSP
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RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 26):
There's plenty of space to physically expand the terminal, which is exactly what BA plans to do. I think it even showed some concept art when the idea was first unveiled about two years ago.

Oh I wasn't even aware they had announced anything. It's clear they can nearly double the terminal size. I was more questioning if there was enough apron space for the wholesale move since the majority of it has been developed already.. But since it sounds like they're already officially evaluating a move, there probably is.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:22 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 25):

The only overlap that I see is late evening arrivals at JFK where one PHX-JFK flight arrives at 11:15 pm and one CLT-JFK flight arrives at 11:58 pm. I imagine that they either use a second gate here or tow the PHX-JFK flight away from the gate to RON - freeing up the single gate.

The schedules are:

11:15pm arrival from PHX that turns for a 10:30am departure to PHX
5:10am arrival from PHX that turns for a 6:35am departure to PHX
5:00pm arrival from PHX that turns for a 6:30pm departure to CLT
9:25am arrival from CLT that turns for a 10:12am departure to CLT
11:11am arrival from CLT that turns for a 12:00pm departure to CLT
1:06pm arrival from CLT that turns for a 1:41pm departure to CLT
3:16pm arrival from CLT that turns for a 4:30pm departure to PHX
8:32pm arrival from CLT that turns for an 8:25am departure to CLT
11:58pm arrival from CLT that turns for a 6:25am departure to CLT

That gives us 3 overnighters, and a redeye that arrives before any of the overnighters depart. That's really where they need the gates. They could realistically work with to gates, giving them a reduced chance of waiting for a gate (especially in the evening/late afternoon, when there is a 4:30pm departure and a 5:00pm arrival).

However, they can realistically use any gates that are available since AA doesn't have a very high gate utilization.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5910
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:51 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
BA T 7 needs to go like the Pan Am worldport.

What Hogwash. Utter Hogwash!   T7 is a very nice little terminal. Modern. Convenient. I cleared customs and was in the car 15 minutes after my Icaair flight blocked in.

What T7 does lack is space! But they have been spacing out the BA departures into the UA area (which is underutilized) and I am sure that helps.

I have spent a lot of time in this terminal and beyond that, there are no complaints. Not everything that is less than 10 years old needs to be thrown down.

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):

I'm sure BA does like having its own terminal at JFK, its single most important longhaul outstation, that it can control. But I'm sure BA would also like providing faster, more convenient and more seamless transfers for the surely thousands of BA passengers per month that transfer at JFK to reach points beyond on AA.

100% Agreed. BA will move to T8 for just this reason.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 20):

We were told at JFK recently that the new AA plans to grow the domestic feed over the next couple of years, then eventually use that feed to grow the international operation. Many have worried that JFK would go by the wayside in favor of PHL, but the new management said New York is far too important to relegate as a secondary city.

That's right. That domestic feed isn't going anywhere if they continue to run an international operation from T8.
 
airplanedaj
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:05 am

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:29 am

Any chance of a connector bridge over the JFK Expressway to allow for easier connections between BA in T7 and AA in T8?(Think of DEN)
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Thu May 01, 2014 10:59 pm

Quoting airplanedaj (Reply 30):
Any chance of a connector bridge over the JFK / KJFK), USA - New York">JFK Expressway to allow for easier connections between BA in T7 and AA in T8?(Think of DEN)

I doubt that's very likely, especially if BA is likely to move anytime soon.

[Edited 2014-05-01 16:00:12]
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
aajfksjubklyn
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:46 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri May 02, 2014 1:30 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):

Dude I worked on the plan options are kidding me? I know what I saw on the plans.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5910
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri May 02, 2014 2:47 am

Where was the TrAAin going?

In the tunnel beneath the two concourses?

In the tunnel going to the customs that is adjacent to and part of the same tunnel?

Running down the midfield concourse like Delta in DTW?


There was never any plan made public (before or after the downsizing) that included a TrAAin.
 
aajfksjubklyn
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:46 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri May 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Love the TrAAin reference. Yes, it was below grade, it was an option prior to public release of interiors finalized. It was ala MCO and TPA. It came down to timing and budgets to get to concourse, the train would have been 4 minutes down and up, they settled on the 8 minutes in current arrangement. They are pretty close too. It takes 7-8 minutes to do the down and up.

Ever wonder why you have to go up and down then down again kind of awkwardly in the current arrangement if you arrive into the far airside concourse? It was a slight oversight in planning when the TrAAin was removed.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5910
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri May 02, 2014 9:59 pm

Interesting. It is awkawrd. But no more so than Dulles or Ohare or any other airport with a tunnel to a midfield concourse.

Just went through the terminal 3 weeks ago. Beautiful building. Bathrooms are a mess though
 
aajfksjubklyn
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:46 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri May 02, 2014 10:12 pm

The maintenance is horrid. They hired a third party that hides in the storage closet. I've seen it many many times. It's a joke
 
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hhslax2
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:16 pm

RE: New Terminal Space For AA At JFK?

Fri May 02, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 35):
Interesting. It is awkawrd. But no more so than Dulles or Ohare or any other airport with a tunnel to a midfield concourse.

Calling the shed UA uses at IAD a midfield concourse is probably the nicest thing I've heard about it in years.

[Edited 2014-05-02 15:20:03]

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