Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:38 pm

This Article I wrote is about KISP, in Islip, NY; it is an airport serving the LI Area, with LIRR service to NYC.


I live on Long Island, and I am lucky to be within a hop, skip and a jump to basically (basically) almost any major city without stops. But, I should realize that an hour and a half, lets say, flight to portland, ME involves going to some of the most congested airports in the world, parking and paying A LOT a day, and then, on top of all that, there are almost always delays. It's why I often try to fly ISP, Macarthur Airport, and connect. Well, thats not really that cheap, and LGA and JFK are competitive; it's why so many people leak into their catchment zones. Well, thats not good for ISP, and its why (partially) WN dropped about 50% service to the area. I honestly can't remember all the destinations LIMA (Another ISP abbrev.) served in the 80's and 90's and I get it; there was more air service in general then, but even in the 2000's, WN's plan to make ISP a focus city with over 80 flights a day, already having service (back then) to BNA, JAX, ORF, PVD, and many more (respond if you know any more; I think there was CLE?). Obviously, WN got what they wanted and snatched LGA slots, and ISP was left in the dust. BOOM, LAS gone (2007), MDW gone (2012), RSW gone (technically 2 month seasonal...), and all the others from the earlier years. It's a love/hate relationship at ISP with WN because its great that WN decided to even serve ISP, but they are in a sense abusing what they have; 8 gates, 16-ish flights a day.

And ISP is suffering, partially because of sloppy town-management (corruption), and partially from the recession which hit every airline hard. So, now its time to get back up on our feet, and get to work. First thing to do is vacate WN from A1-A4 to show the airlines that WN is not going to hog the airport any more. Secondly, work with airlines directly, and maybe subsidize them a little at first so they can test the waters without "loosing too much". IMHO ISP is a BDL just waiting to hatch. IMHO, ISP needs service by a new airline that wants to do what WN was thinking. Thirdly, and more so, in time, expand ISP; which is adding a new concourse, people mover to LIRR station, and a car garage. All these additions and more are capable if ISP is capable to persuading LCC's and/or legacy's to the airport. My personal list of capable air service (other than current) are: RDU, BUF, PHX, LAX, SFO, CHS, BOS (real service, not an alaskan subsidy....), MDW/ORD, DEN, LAS, RSW, JAX, DCA. Now, if someone was really smart, they would start an airline with a small hub operation out of ISP where all Northeast destinations could be served, but that would only make sense with new infrastructure.

This is my view on ISP, and with it in the news a lot recently, I thought it worthwhile to begin something that Long islander's, but anyone really can comment on about this airports future. All I could think about is if SX tried ISP.  

-Tanner

[Edited 2014-04-25 14:40:16]
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:49 pm

Tanner,

Lifelong NYer here. And youre not like what Im going to say

The heydays of Long Island are over. If you go into a high school class in Suffolk, a good chunk of those kids will move into the city leaving behind the 2 hour long commute their parents did for 30 years. Another chunk will movs to a sunbelt state where it is easier to start a better lifestyle. The rest will stay and commute west for work.

Over taxation, piss poor infastructure planning, little corporate presence, and lots of bad management (nassau is one of the richest counties in the nation yet bankrupt) have led to Long Islands downfall.


Its namesake airport reflects that.

Dont be surprised if WN leaves as their fleet shrinks

furthermore the situation is exacerbated in all small markets near a large hub due to consolidation
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):

Tanner,

Lifelong NYer here. And youre not like what Im going to say

The heydays of Long Island are over. If you go into a high school class in Suffolk, a good chunk of those kids will move into the city leaving behind the 2 hour long commute their parents did for 30 years. Another chunk will movs to a sunbelt state where it is easier to start a better lifestyle. The rest will stay and commute west for work.

Over taxation, piss poor infastructure planning, little corporate presence, and lots of bad management (nassau is one of the richest counties in the nation yet bankrupt) have led to Long Islands downfall.


Its namesake airport reflects that.

Dont be surprised if WN leaves as their fleet shrinks

furthermore the situation is exacerbated in all small markets near a large hub due to consolidation

Oh, I actually do enjoy hearing people's opinion on these situations. I do agree with you on pretty much all of your down trotting on Long Island. It's pretty rough and all those points and lots of others make it tough on anything working on long island, but its still got 4 million people, and if you get LIRR connection, there is no telling what a LCC could do if they actually tried cough cough WN :-/ Either way, WN will consolidate, but I don't think they want to ever leave. They are abusing the airport and they know it. They get awesome yields from the people that do overpay for FL service, and that won't really change. Until the old folks start to go...
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Lifelong Long Islander here!  
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
Dont be surprised if WN leaves as their fleet shrinks

I agreed with you completely.....until you said this.  

I just don't think Southwest will since they own their gates. If they didn't have such a big investment in the airport, I'd agree, however I feel that they'll try to keep as much service as economically possible. Another good sign I see for ISP is the fact that, as of the end of July, they'll be flying the -800s from BWI (once a day, but it's still better than nothing).

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Thread starter):
BOS (real service, not an alaskan subsidy....),

In ISP's case, beggars can't be choosers. They way I see it, ISP now has a nonstop link to BOS once again after a long hiatus.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Thread starter):
MDW/ORD

Personally I think there's a good chance of AA starting ISP-ORD (especially if they don't win the slots they're trying to get at DCA to keep ISP-DCA)

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Thread starter):
First thing to do is vacate WN from A1-A4 to show the airlines that WN is not going to hog the airport any more.

IIRC Southwest owns their gates, so they cannot really be vacated by the town.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Thread starter):
DCA.

We already have it, however they are possibly ending.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Thread starter):
IMHO, ISP needs service by a new airline that wants to do what WN was thinking.

That's just the problem. No airline wants to do what WN did. The most I can see is if Frontier ever decided to look at ISP to serve New York on a greater scale, which I don't see thanks to Southwest's presence here.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:46 pm

I'm still new, so I don't know about how to quote like you just did so I'll respond :P

I agree that WN is not leaving almost only because of their big investment, plus the high yields. They spend 55 mil on that new 4 gates. And Yes, A1-A4 can be vacated circumstantially I believe (new air service). I meant they should get rid of the big Southwest logos all over the place in that "area". WN barely uses it anyways... And yeah, I am really excited to see the -800 coming out to ISP. I think its doing a one-way MCO-ISP-BWI... As far as AA goes, I don't expect ISP-ORD anytime soon, because of their vice on LGA-ORD (IIRC). But even if they did, and it did get high loads, WN would just step in and kill them with a ISP-MDW (which they honestly still could do today). I don't want AA to get DCA because they don't deserve more slots for "free" after they made hundreds on millions of the ones they just sold. Anyways, yes, that is why I said DCA, because of the 'possible" ending.

F9 could do some midwest cities but most won't be awesome loads. I think a strong startup needs to market LIMA as NYC area, as it already is in the "metro area" and if they get the backing of the town and new infrastructure (people mover, terminal, garage...) they could really make a focus city/hub for the NE.

Oh, and I wasn't knocking pen air, I was just stating how it is possible for a "real" airline (again, not knocking penair) like B6 to come in.

Anyways, we can all agree ISP needs some work, but maybe I just see more out of it.
 
User avatar
jetpixx
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:22 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:17 pm

I remember flying through ISP back in the day on an EA 727 to FLL, and another couple of times on Northeastern Int'l flights with both of the cloud designs, and another time on a DC-8 to BOS!

ISP was a great little airport...we walked on the ramp to board the airstairs, and there was a US DC-9, UA 727 and AA 727 also boarding via airstairs. There were also Precision, Ransome and Pilgrim aircraft, as well as an Empire (F28?, I believe) aircraft at the late afternoon rush. I guess those were the halcyon days.

EA also used to run a 757 from PVD-ISP-ATL. That would be amazing now.

Too many NIMBYs make it a difficult airport for airlines to run flights, too.
ABE, BIL, BOS, BUF, BWI, CAE, CAK, CHS, CLE, CLT, CVG, DAY, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, GSO, IAD, IAH, IND, ISP, JAX, JFK, LAS, LAX, LGA, MDW, MEM, MHT, MIA, MKE, MLB, MSO, MSP, OMA, ORD, PBI, PHL, PIT, PVD, RDU, SEA, SFO, SLC, SJU, STL, SYR, TLH, TMB, TUL, YVR
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:30 pm

727's! Wow, that must've been some take off from that short runway! And PVD-ISP-ATL would be an awesome routing. Quite frankly, I thought WN could've still held an ISP-PVD for a least one frequency (since 2002 I believe). Let me get out the April 2002 WN flight schedule (Im collecting them). In April of 2002, WN had 8 N/S to BWI (Wow), 2x N/S MDW, 2x N/S FLL, 2x N/S to BNA, 2x N/S to MCO, 4x N/S to PVD (overkill, but was for PVD-ISP-FLL...), 2x N/S to TPA, 1x N/S to JAX (interesting). Between then and now they had service to many other cities.

On another note, I wrote a long letter that I hand-mailed to F9 about ISP service and they emailed me back a generic response, although quite frankly I was happy to receive anything at all. I am unsure whether to actually post the email but it said they appreciate the feedback and they would make my comments known to Marketing and Schedule Management. And they also looked forward to serving me on a future F9 flight.   I was thinking unless I go to TTN, I really don't think I'll ever have the opportunity. Anyways, they are looking into ISP service.
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:36 pm

I admit I am not that familiar with Long Island, ISP or the market around there but as I keep reading the back and forth discussions in this thread one thing comes to mind.... NK. I could see ISP being NK's kind of airport. Yes, NK is already at LGA but I could see this being a different kind of market that it could exploit with it's model. I am not saying full fledged hub or even focus city... but a decent sized operation.
 
TPA0822
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:52 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:44 pm

Quoting LV (Reply 7):
I could see ISP being NK's kind of airport.

Absolutely. I would like to see DL start service to their hubs which would make it so much easier for those that live in Suffolk County. However, I image they don't want to cannibalize their LGA and JFK hubs. F9 would also be a good candidate to start service from ISP
 
User avatar
jetpixx
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:22 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:38 am

I know the UA and AA flights 727 went to ORD, the various commuters like Precision, Ransome, Pilgrim, etc. went to BOS, ALB, PVD and maybe PHL...and EA flew to ATL, FLL and perhaps MIA (not sure about that). And Northeastern Int'l went to BOS and FLL. Not sure if they ever connected ISP and MSY.

But seems like ISP was HUGE back then, even though it was just the little circular terminal when I visited. I believe CO used to have ATRs that flew to EWR at one point, too. And they might have even had mainline back in the day with the 'meatball' livery, but someone else would have to answer on that.

It was a great time to fly through there -- the mid 80's or so. Then, in the 90's, Carnival had their 737s before WN. It is funny how the air service has changed there over the years. Now, it is a relative ghost town, which isn't funny -- but for reasons stated by the posters above, it makes some sense.
ABE, BIL, BOS, BUF, BWI, CAE, CAK, CHS, CLE, CLT, CVG, DAY, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, GSO, IAD, IAH, IND, ISP, JAX, JFK, LAS, LAX, LGA, MDW, MEM, MHT, MIA, MKE, MLB, MSO, MSP, OMA, ORD, PBI, PHL, PIT, PVD, RDU, SEA, SFO, SLC, SJU, STL, SYR, TLH, TMB, TUL, YVR
 
JFKL1011
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:16 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:57 am

God I love ISP. For the convenience its worth the connection to get you essentially anywhere in the continental 48. But for countless reasons, its a tough sell. Most of Nassau county leans towards JFK and LGA so the market is slim. The transit options to ISP are terrible. Its just too far from the major market of NYC.
So many places to fly and increasingly so few interesting aircraft to get there on.
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:24 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 4):
I think its doing a one-way MCO-ISP-BWI...

Actually it's just doing BWI-ISP-BWI  
Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 4):
I'm still new, so I don't know about how to quote like you just did so I'll respond :P

1. Highlight the text you want to quote
2. Go to the top right corner of the reply and click "quote selected text""

 
Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 4):
Anyways, we can all agree ISP needs some work,

Definitely agree  
Quoting JFKL1011 (Reply 10):
God I love ISP. For the convenience its worth the connection to get you essentially anywhere in the continental 48. But for countless reasons, its a tough sell. Most of Nassau county leans towards JFK and LGA so the market is slim. The transit options to ISP are terrible. Its just too far from the major market of NYC.

Agreed

Quoting JFKL1011 (Reply 10):
Its just too far from the major market of NYC.

That's mainly why WN hasn't been able to fully fulfill their initial plans at ISP. Back when oil was half of what it is now, it was viable for them to fill the planes with lots of connecting passengers, vacationers, and those who were able to be drawn away from JFK/LGA by very cheap fares. Nowadays, not so much, which is why WN was so anxious to dip their toe into LGA. While a shame for ISP, and a shame for people who could really benefit form WN's big operations at ISP, it was a smart business move.

Quoting LV (Reply 7):
I could see ISP being NK's kind of airport. Yes, NK is already at LGA but I could see this being a different kind of market that it could exploit with it's model. I am not saying full fledged hub or even focus city... but a decent sized operation.

NK could definitely pull ISP off and, frankly, I feel that we will see Spirit at ISP sooner or later as their fleet continues to grow. I can see 1x daily to each: FLL, ORD, RSW, TPA. Maybe 3x weekly to DFW as well. I doubt we would see ISP-LAS, though I can dream I guess  

As for F9, I really don't know. A year ago I would've said that they would do MCO, TPA, and maybe RSW and DEN. But lately, with all the curveballs they've thrown us (CLE, RDU, CMH, MDW, MSY, IAH connected to TTN and ILG of all places, as well as MDW-TRI/MDT), I really don't know what to expect from this nice little airline (I've flown them a few times and loved them).
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:45 am

Unfortunately from my understanding the WN ISP-MDW traffic was something like 90% connecting traffic.
So yields were low and shorter connecting times with better yields could be done thru BWI instead. If I'm not mistaken same was the case for ISP-LAS.
ISP will see seasonal shifts to Florida markets.
But the hey day of anything more than 20 flts a day is long gone.
I don't ever see WN dropping ISP but never say never with the new WN.
Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 11):
NK could definitely pull ISP off and, frankly, I feel that we will see Spirit at ISP sooner or later as their fleet continues to grow. I can see 1x daily to each: FLL, ORD, RSW, TPA. Maybe 3x weekly to DFW as well. I doubt we would see ISP-LAS, though I can dream I guess  


I wouldn't be all that surprised to see ISP on their list. They went to Latrobe, didn't they? :P
However, I wouldn't imagine they would faire very well because Long Island is very middle-class oriented. Unless they can get enough from the Riverhead, and Islip-like areas (hate to discriminate whole towns for some areas) its a far cry from easy to fill even the a319. People associate them with unpleasantness. I booked spirit LGA-FLL, and they cancelled on me because of drizzle. Anyways, the next flight was a week from then and I vowed to never fly them again. At ISP, maybe they can get a second chance. I think a good idea for them is a MYR flight, for RDU for WN. The carolinas area is really flourishing with baby-boomers from the NY area (especially Nassau and Suffolk). Maybe, but we'll never know. I mean, remember B6, when they held the press conference at that dinky Idlewild "grill". I don't think many expected anything of them, but ay, they did something right. Every airline has to find its niche. NK made something of ACY! Atlantic city! They do decent ops there. I mean if southeast jersey gets flights to MYR, BOS, FLL, PBI, ORD, IAH, then there is no reason for ISP not to have a Chicago flight AT LEAST! I don't know, but it didn't seem good when I heard AAY drop. But, I didn't expect much from them. Long Islanders don't go for twice-weekly service to an obscure airport. I'm interested to see how PenAir is doing at ISP. I did some fake bookings and loads didn't look too shabby. Maybe b/c of the AS codeshare?
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 13):
I wouldn't be all that surprised to see ISP on their list. They went to Latrobe, didn't they? :P

Haha! It's funny, when somebody mentioned marketing ISP at NYC, I thought of NK marketing LBE as Pittsburgh.



Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 13):
I think a good idea for them is a MYR flight,

Wouldn't I love that! As somebody who commutes between NYC and Myrtle Beach very frequently, I would fly Spirit if they resumed the direct flights.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 13):
I don't know, but it didn't seem good when I heard AAY drop

Though they really aren't dropping it. They're just making the flights seasonal, which isn't a surprise at all as Ft. Myers is much more popular form NYC in the winter.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 13):
I'm interested to see how PenAir is doing at ISP. I did some fake bookings and loads didn't look too shabby. Maybe b/c of the AS codeshare?

I'm not sure about the yields, but they did recently add a third frequency to the route (though it seems to operate only on certain days) as of March 10th, so fingers crossed that they stick around!  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:01 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 3):
The most I can see is if Frontier ever decided to look at ISP to serve New York on a greater scale, which I don't see thanks to Southwest's presence here.

And Southwest is the point.

The original basis of Frontier at TTN is Florida. Other routes are successful, too, but Florida - with no competition - was the springboard for everything. On a much smaller scale, it's also true of ILG.

Similarly, the build-up at CLE is based on Florida.

At the same time, Frontier isn't looking for another war with Southwest - DEN is enough - so I don't expect we'll see ISP because Southwest has ISP-Florida covered.

But - I could be wrong.  

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:04 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
But - I could be wrong.

You could be, but in this case I don't think you are  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:09 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
At the same time, Frontier isn't looking for another war with Southwest - DEN is enough - so I don't expect we'll see ISP because Southwest has ISP-Florida covered.

Last I heard F9 was decentralizing DEN...? Maybe they need planes elsewhere, ISP makes sense... I see the point. Who knows, all ISP needs is real marketing! If F9 makes themselves known at ISP, they could kick WN right out. Southwest isn't even trying at ISP. F9 can shake things up if they can advertise TV's, low fares, easy airport. That's all ISP needs. It already is the most convenient NYC Area Airport, and people know. They want to use it but need low fares and something new. However, new service is a stretch with the losers running the town, they really don't care about the airport. We must wait and watch.

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
The original basis of Frontier at TTN is Florida. Other routes are successful, too, but Florida - with no competition - was the springboard for everything. On a much smaller scale, it's also true of ILG.


Frontier @ TTN is a lot of Florida traffic, but midwest traffic is going to surpass it with the MKE, STL, BNA, MSP, etc. recent additions. SO, it allowed F9 a foot-in the door, but they didn't just stop with that.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 16):

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
But - I could be wrong.

You could be, but in this case I don't think you are  

Eh, yea, but ya never know, F9 is constantly throwing curveballs...

[Edited 2014-04-25 20:10:36]
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:20 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 17):
Last I heard F9 was decentralizing DEN...?

I think you can only have heard that on a.net, where it is the Conventional Wisdom that is what Frontier must do. Or in the Denver Post, maybe - LOL.

In fact, Frontier has just added four routes at DEN and has just signed a deal to lease the old Continental hangar so that heavy maintenance can be restored to DEN.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 17):
Frontier @ TTN is a lot of Florida traffic, but midwest traffic is going to surpass it with the MKE, STL, BNA, MSP, etc. recent additions. SO, it allowed F9 a foot-in the door, but they didn't just stop with that.

But - again - Florida was the springboard for it all and for a quite deliberate reason. Frontier's weakest quarter has always been Q1, deep winter, because it did not participate in any of the Northeast to Florida traffic, particularly the snowbirds.

Everything that Frontier is doing in the Northeast is based on that and there are still places (in the Northeast) where Southwest doesn't have Florida covered.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:21 am

NK service at ISP actually would be a re-start. Several years ago they began service with a few daily flights to FLL, but pulled out completely after just a short time. As I recall, bad timing was the main issue, the service having started just as the recession hit and air travel slumped.

With better economic conditions today, revived service just might work.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 19):

NK service at ISP actually would be a re-start. Several years ago they began service with a few daily flights to FLL, but pulled out completely after just a short time. As I recall, bad timing was the main issue, the service having started just as the recession hit and air travel slumped.

With better economic conditions today, revived service just might work.

Didn't they also fly ISP-MYR?
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:59 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 20):
Didn't they also fly ISP-MYR?

No, I remember it was just for like 6 months... They tried ISP-FLL and got poor loads compared to what they were looking for. NK may return, probably not. Why deal with WN and a smaller airport/catchment?
 
BOACCunard
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:59 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:01 am

I don't see WN leaving ISP entirely any time soon, certainly not unless it somehow came upon enough LGA slots to replicate all the Florida service it has at ISP there, and maybe even more, since it would then be directly competing with other carriers in a way it isn't now. But I don't see much potential for major expansion, either. Maybe a few flights here and there. But it certainly doesn't have the potential to be another BDL. The Hartford and Springfield metro areas are not huge, but they're quite far from any other major airports. BDL is about 90 miles from BOS, 100 from LGA, 115 from EWR. ISP is only 35 miles from JFK, 40 from LGA, and most of the combined population of Nassau and Suffolk counties lives toward the NYC airports, not away from them. JFK and LGA are both on Long Island and JFK especially is very far from being deep within NYC; it is literally on the border with Nassau, and LGA is not far away either. Many Long Islanders commute every day to Manhattan; an airport in Queens is hardly an onerous distance away. JFK and LGA are rather inconveniently far for people living in the eastern part of Suffolk, but not too many people live there, nor will they ever, probably.

ISP could perhaps have had a brighter future if WN had been kept out of the main NYC airports indefinitely, or perhaps if the eastward march of suburbanization on Long Island had not ended in the 1970s not far east of it, but rather continued onward to eastern Suffolk, creating a larger population of people inconveniently far from JFK or LGA. But WN now serves LGA and EWR, and if anything suburban Long Island has begun to decline (certainly, even if it isn't declining in absolute terms it has had a huge relative decline compared to NYC, whose now-recouped losses in the mid-20th century were the source of its gains), and that cannot help its situation.

I don't even necessarily see e.g. F9 coming in because unlike at TTN or ILG, it would end up competing with WN — Florida is by far the biggest domestic market from the NYC area, especially for Long Island-originating passengers, and WN already serves Florida well, and moreover people who do prefer ISP are by and large now loyal to WN and happy with its service (albeit perhaps desiring more of it). Similarly, NK tried ISP and it didn't work; ACY doesn't have WN to contend with. G4 is about to end its only recently started service, ostensibly only for the summer, but who knows? (How many people on Long Island really want to go to PGD?) The majors probably don't really care to compete with their own services at LGA and JFK, AA's relative enthusiasm for ISP (compared to DL and UA) notwithstanding. Basically, I think WN has a nice little niche ferrying Long Islanders back and forth to Florida from ISP and that is really most of the potential the airport has for the foreseeable future.
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
BOACCunard
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:59 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:07 am

Oh, one other thing: in what way is WN abusing the airport? It's not like other carriers aren't welcome to start service; indeed it seems to me that the town would be very happy for them to. I think it's more a case of there not being that big a market, and WN happens to have most of the market that is there. If someone else wants to take it away from WN it can try but it would take a lot to entice WN's loyal and not-too-price-conscious (!) customers away from it.
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:20 am

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 22):
(How many people on Long Island really want to go to PGD?)

Based on my experience of Long Island I'd say quite a lot.

I dunno if they'd want to go in high summer, but the rest of the year, sure.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
dragon-wings
Posts: 4144
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:02 am

I was reading a article about MacArthur Airport (the story was about the airport hiring a consultants to help the airport) in this past Thursdays Newsday that said in 2007 1.2 millions passengers flew out of KISP. In 2012 that number dropped to 679,000 people!

Before 9-11-01 I remember going down to the airport when the weather was nice and just sitting in my car along the perimeter fence (along Smithtown Ave) and just watching the planes. Now you can't do that anymore.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:11 am

Given the huge population within the NYC metro area, if ISP - and SWF - were in Europe they'd probably have many millions of passengers per year from LCCs (assuming, of course, infrastructure wasn't a problem).
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:03 pm

One other thing to point out re:LIRR link.

There is no direct link. And due to the proximity of the LIRR, that is plain stupid. But speaks volumes on the situation in ISP.

The terminal could have and should have been relocated right next to the LIRR station. Plenty of room, closer to the LIE, walk to the train. Then you would have a rail link.

My understanding is that this plan was shot down due to neighbors in the area.

As it stands now, a shuttle comes around once an hour for the 10 minute ride around the perimeter fence to the LIRR station.

This situation is almost as bizarre as JFK looking at the A train for 50 years with no direct rail service to access it. Or LGA being hemmed in by the N to the north and the 7 to the south without a direct link to the airport!

Only in New York folks...
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:27 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 26):

I know. That's why ISP, SWF, and even HVN for the Connecticut area has major potential for any LCC. As far as the shuttle link, that would be a great opportunity to get more service. It's a major investment and the town really can't afford it. I think the airport needs to be privitized. IMHO it's the leadership that don't care about the airport and it's all going to the wayside. WN is abusing the airport because they took virtually all the gates and use mostly 2 gates during the day. They want a monopoly at that airport and they really got it.
 
daviation
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:41 pm

You can substitute SWF for ISP on all the above comments. Same convenience, same difficulties. The only things keeping SWF open are the substantial freight operation and, of course, the Air National Guard with their fleet of C-17s and C-130s. The airline service is practically down to nothing: a couple of Delta RJs to Detroit, a few US RJs to PHL, a couple of JetBlue ERJs to Florida. Most people, including me, have just given up and hike over to Newark instead.
PlaneFlown:717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC8,DC9,DC10,L1011,F100,A300,319,320,321,330,340,CRJ,ERJ,E190,Av85,DH8,Beaver,ATR
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 22):
ISP is only 35 miles from JFK, 40 from LGA, and most of the combined population of Nassau and Suffolk counties lives toward the NYC airports, not away from them.

For anyone taking a morning flight on a weekday the distances might as well be three times as long. If you get on the road between about 6 and 9 in the morning, driving from ISP to either airport can take in excess of two hours.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:03 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
Lifelong NYer here. And youre not like what Im going to say

The heydays of Long Island are over. If you go into a high school class in Suffolk, a good chunk of those kids will move into the city leaving behind the 2 hour long commute their parents did for 30 years. Another chunk will movs to a sunbelt state where it is easier to start a better lifestyle. The rest will stay and commute west for work.

Over taxation, piss poor infastructure planning, little corporate presence, and lots of bad management (nassau is one of the richest counties in the nation yet bankrupt) have led to Long Islands downfall.


Its namesake airport reflects that.

Dont be surprised if WN leaves as their fleet shrinks

furthermore the situation is exacerbated in all small markets near a large hub due to consolidation

  

All of this - completely agree. As long as Long Islanders are willing to drive the extra 40 miles to JFK or LGA for the right schedule or price (and those airports often superior choice in one or both compared to ISP), ISP will never get any substantial service - especially from the network carriers that all have major operations in the city.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 3):
Personally I think there's a good chance of AA starting ISP-ORD (especially if they don't win the slots they're trying to get at DCA to keep ISP-DCA)

I doubt it highly. Why would AA start new service that would pull passengers off its existing 17 daily LGA-ORD flights, and almost certainly at lower fares?

Put another way: is the market of passengers so loyal to ISP that they refuse to drive to LGA large enough, and willing enough to pay a higher fare, to justify AA adding flights that would compete with its existing service at LGA? I think the answer is almost certainly no.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
This situation is almost as bizarre as JFK looking at the A train for 50 years with no direct rail service to access it. Or LGA being hemmed in by the N to the north and the 7 to the south without a direct link to the airport!

Only in New York folks...

  
 
daviation
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
This situation is almost as bizarre as JFK looking at the A train for 50 years with no direct rail service to access it.

It's incredible when you think of the public transport options at CDG and LHR, just two examples of airports I've been to in the last few years. It's disgraceful for a major city, in fact, THE major city of the United States.

Having said that, however, I took the JFK AirTrain from JFK to the 'A' train last month and it really wasn't bad at all.
PlaneFlown:717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC8,DC9,DC10,L1011,F100,A300,319,320,321,330,340,CRJ,ERJ,E190,Av85,DH8,Beaver,ATR
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:56 pm

Quoting daviation (Reply 32):
Having said that, however, I took the JFK AirTrain from JFK to the 'A' train last month and it really wasn't bad at all.

It's great.

I was talking about the 50 years before the AirTrain opened!
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:28 pm

County and local government on Long Island is of uniformly low quality. Not necessarily corrupt, though there's plenty of that, but inept. All the competent people have gone into the private sector, leaving the nincompoops in government. I have no doubt that if this weren't the case something would have been done years ago to promote growth at ISP, either in the current Town of Islip ownership or via a takeover by Suffolk County.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23891
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:18 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 6):
727's! Wow, that must've been some take off from that short runway!

The 727 was designed to deal with even shorter runways, such as the 5,000 ft runway at Key West. The 7,000 foot main runway at KISP would be fine for a 727 and it's robust high lift devices.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_727 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISP
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:30 pm

Every now and then a 727 flies into ISP to transport horses.
Imagine cleaning it afterwards  
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
canyonblue17
Posts: 680
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:22 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:10 pm

Two quick notes from someone who has been flying in and out of ISP for more than 30 years. One - Spirit already tried flying to ISP and it cancelled the service in less than six months. Two, Allegiant now flies there twice a week to Punta Gorda (near Fort Myers, FL). I took this flight recently and the service was good.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
BOACCunard
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:59 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
Based on my experience of Long Island I'd say quite a lot.

I dunno if they'd want to go in high summer, but the rest of the year, sure.

Almost everyone here seems to want to go to Florida (or ends up going anyway, even if they don't want to   ), but I'm not sure if PGD is the right part of Florida.

Look at the amount of service from the major NYC airports to RSW (the major airport near PGD): it's tiny, compared to other major Florida airports. Most people here head to the MIA/FLL/PBI area, or MCO.

Indeed, the one airport that many people would fly to from ISP that doesn't have service is... MIA. But I don't see why AA would do that since it would just be siphoning off customers from itself at JFK and LGA. Now, if NK ever moves/expands to MIA, I could see it maybe giving ISP-MIA a shot, which might actually work.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 26):
Given the huge population within the NYC metro area, if ISP - and SWF - were in Europe they'd probably have many millions of passengers per year from LCCs (assuming, of course, infrastructure wasn't a problem).

Perhaps. But they aren't.  

Also, this is Long Island. Infrastructure isn't so much a problem as it is a concept that has not yet been discovered. 50 years after the area became urbanized, a few valiant local politicians in Suffolk County (pop. ~1.5 million) are trying to get people to start talking about whether sewers might be a good idea. I know this has nothing to do with airports directly, but that should give you some idea about how infrastructure here works. Or doesn't. (But hey, we're a national leader in smoking bans, so at least the local government can get something done!)

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
One other thing to point out re:LIRR link.

There is no direct link. And due to the proximity of the LIRR, that is plain stupid. But speaks volumes on the situation in ISP.

The terminal could have and should have been relocated right next to the LIRR station. Plenty of room, closer to the LIE, walk to the train. Then you would have a rail link.

Yes, a thousand times this. The whole area around ISP and the Ronkonkoma LIRR station is so ludicrously badly planned I don't think you could make it worse if you tried. It is possibly some of the worst (sub)urban planning I've ever seen, anywhere.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
My understanding is that this plan was shot down due to neighbors in the area.

Yes, Long Island has become NIMBYland.

It's kind of amusing/ironic that a place whose current form is the result of rampant, unchecked, unplanned (unplanned in the sense of no urban planning, not in the sense of "by accident") development is, 50 years later, filled with people so implacably opposed to anything resembling development.

Long Island is slowly killing itself with its insistence that it must remain 1950s-style suburbia forever. But if that's what the people want, I suppose they shall have it. (A local government structure that it would be insulting to Constantinople to call Byzantine doesn't help.)

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 28):
It's a major investment and the town really can't afford it.

It's not just that it's a major investment the town can't afford; I very much doubt that most local residents would even want it if it were free.

I mean, people here are opposing the much-needed second LIRR track to Ronkonkoma because they're afraid it will generate (automobile) traffic. This is the state of local politics.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 30):
For anyone taking a morning flight on a weekday the distances might as well be three times as long. If you get on the road between about 6 and 9 in the morning, driving from ISP to either airport can take in excess of two hours.

Sure, but for people whose normal daily commute is like this anyway that is not a particularly daunting proposition.  

All of this only matters in terms of what people are willing to tolerate, and people have proven themselves willing to tolerate the drive to JFK or LGA.

Quoting commavia (Reply 31):
As long as Long Islanders are willing to drive the extra 40 miles to JFK or LGA for the right schedule or price (and those airports often superior choice in one or both compared to ISP), ISP will never get any substantial service - especially from the network carriers that all have major operations in the city.

...Why would AA start new service that would pull passengers off its existing 17 daily LGA-ORD flights, and almost certainly at lower fares?

Put another way: is the market of passengers so loyal to ISP that they refuse to drive to LGA large enough, and willing enough to pay a higher fare, to justify AA adding flights that would compete with its existing service at LGA? I think the answer is almost certainly no.

Exactly. I don't really know why AA (or DL or UA) would decide to expand service at ISP just in order to compete with their own services at the major NYC airports.

Besides, ISP-ORD would probably mostly be connections, and many of them would be connections that could happen through PHL already.

Quoting daviation (Reply 32):
It's incredible when you think of the public transport options at CDG and LHR, just two examples of airports I've been to in the last few years. It's disgraceful for a major city, in fact, THE major city of the United States.

If JFK compares unfavorably to CDG and LHR then we are really in trouble.   Although both have improved (especially LHR), I wouldn't necessarily call either of those airports worthy of their cities either.

Then again, at least in the west, the greatest cities do not tend to have the best airports. JFK, LAX, CDG, LHR...
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 38):
Almost everyone here seems to want to go to Florida (or ends up going anyway, even if they don't want to   ), but I'm not sure if PGD is the right part of Florida.

Look at the amount of service from the major NYC airports to RSW (the major airport near PGD): it's tiny, compared to other major Florida airports. Most people here head to the MIA/FLL/PBI area, or MCO.


I note that Frontier flies ILG-RSW but does not fly ILG-FLL and Allegiant has made PGD work against all odds, at least seasonally.

Allegiant is not a frequency driven airline and I'm not sure why "Long Islanders" would be so different.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4694
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:00 pm

I could see frontier set up a TTN type setup. Seems like a good location and good model with the less than daily format.
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 38):

Besides, ISP-ORD would probably mostly be connections, and many of them would be connections that could happen through PHL already.

My thought was that, if they don't get to maintain the DCA flights, some connections could be replaced with flights through ORD. Not many, but, and you can call me crazy, but I think two daily E-145s to ORD could work just as well as the DCA flights did.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4787
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:33 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Thread starter):
BOS (real service, not an alaskan subsidy....)

Not sure what this is referring too...KS is its own airline.
 
timz
Posts: 6582
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:59 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
7,000 foot main runway at KISP

Longest runway was 6000 ft until... the 1980s? Not sure, but I'm guessing Northeastern DC-8s used the 6000-ft runway.
 
BOACCunard
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:59 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:02 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
Allegiant is not a frequency driven airline and I'm not sure why "Long Islanders" would be so different.

True, given the extremely low frequency it should not be so hard to fill the flights, at least in the winter.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 40):
I could see frontier set up a TTN type setup. Seems like a good location and good model with the less than daily format.

The difference between ISP and TTN (or ILG) is that F9 wouldn't be the only airline there.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 41):
My thought was that, if they don't get to maintain the DCA flights, some connections could be replaced with flights through ORD. Not many, but, and you can call me crazy, but I think two daily E-145s to ORD could work just as well as the DCA flights did.

Are connections the purpose of the DCA flights though? What connections does DCA offer that PHL doesn't?
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:54 pm

In all fairness, I think JFK suffers from a reputation problem that came from the 80s and 90s when the Port Authority ran it into the ground along with bankrupt airlines.

T1 new
T2 old
T4 new
T5 new
T7 old but modern (gate areas a bit tight)
T8 new

AirTrain new

JFKs biggest problem today....runways! Going from a 30 million passenger airport 15 years ago to a 50 million passenger airport today has made the airside quite congested.
 
JFKL1011
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:16 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:59 pm

ISP is a no-win situation. Their biggest selling point is convenience: plenty of cheap parking right next to the terminal; breeze through TSA; outstanding on-time performance (you're always #1 for takeoff/landing) Now, lets say you start getting more flights/carriers/destinations....slowly but surely all the things that make ISP so great for the few that use it will disappear! In other words...leave it alone and let ME be happy!      
So many places to fly and increasingly so few interesting aircraft to get there on.
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 44):

True, given the extremely low frequency it should not be so hard to fill the flights, at least in the winter.

As far as PGD and G4 goes, it's not going ever be successful. For these reasons: Its low frequency, and Long Islander's want to be able to go and come back when they want, otherwise they don't go, also, its Punta Gorda, FL, and some won't connect the dots with RSW area so that eliminates a lot. And finally, its not a "name brand", so it makes them more hesitant.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 44):
Are connections the purpose of the DCA flights though? What connections does DCA offer that PHL doesn't?

DCA should be dropped. I hate AA asking for more slots for "essential air service" that are not essential. They just want to keep as many flights as possible. DCA is served for many connecting customers often because it could be cheaper, and offered jet service. That is all. I would say about 60% is connecting traffic, the rest go WN to BWI, but even then, most connect. I should add the ISP-BWI shuttle load factors are horrendous (for mid-day). I saw a a plane arriving from BWI midday and it had about 30-40 pax. I know WN has really low CPE, especially at ISP, but think of just the jet fuel... That can't be an awesome load...

Quoting JFKL1011 (Reply 46):
ISP is a no-win situation. Their biggest selling point is convenience: plenty of cheap parking right next to the terminal; breeze through TSA; outstanding on-time performance (you're always #1 for takeoff/landing) Now, lets say you start getting more flights/carriers/destinations....slowly but surely all the things that make ISP so great for the few that use it will disappear! In other words...leave it alone and let ME be happy!      

Haha, I agree that ISP markets for convenience, but remember, adding even 4 million passengers is still not even close to what LGA looks like, and plus, ISP has the ability to expand and grow, while LGA/JFK/EWR are running out of room, LGA is done already... ISP can build more infrastructure to keep it very convenient. Think of the size of the walkway in A4-A8, that could handle 10x what it does today...

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 38):
Exactly. I don't really know why AA (or DL or UA) would decide to expand service at ISP just in order to compete with their own services at the major NYC airports.

Exactly, and that is why I see it really difficult to pull in a legacy carrier, among other reasons....

Just thought I would inform everyone that Air Wisconsin is going to be doing some of the flights from ISP-PHL, so they are upguaging to jets on 2 of the 4 frequencies, I think (it could just be one frequency). This may be to make up for lost jets to DCA.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 38):
The whole area around ISP and the Ronkonkoma LIRR station is so ludicrously badly planned I don't think you could make it worse if you tried. It is possibly some of the worst (sub)urban planning I've ever seen, anywhere.

Most of the area around the airport is a commercial and industrial zone. It may not have been centrally planned, but for the most part it doesn't look bad and serves its purpose - not to mention providing thousands of jobs.
Granted, the area around the train station is pretty ugly, but given that most people go there just to grab a train and go, there may not be much point in careful development. New shops and cafes might look nice, but very few train passengers are going to bother patronizing them.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 38):
It's kind of amusing/ironic that a place whose current form is the result of rampant, unchecked, unplanned (unplanned in the sense of no urban planning, not in the sense of "by accident") development is, 50 years later, filled with people so implacably opposed to anything resembling development.

At the risk of treading on some sensitive terrain, I would hasten to add there are major demographic changes in place on much of Long Island, especially Suffolk County where ISP is located. The more "traditional suburbanites" are slowly but surely being replaced by different demographic groups, who may not share the same antipathy toward development. Upgrading ISP might become less controversial over time.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 47):
its Punta Gorda, FL, and some won't connect the dots with RSW area so that eliminates a lot.

They have been outwardly marketing it as Ft Myers area.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 47):
And finally, its not a "name brand", so it makes them more hesitant.

The kinds of people that G4 is going after aren't the ones who are looking for a "name brand". They're the ones looking for cheap travel.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 47):
Just thought I would inform everyone that Air Wisconsin is going to be doing some of the flights from ISP-PHL, so they are upguaging to jets on 2 of the 4 frequencies, I think (it could just be one frequency). This may be to make up for lost jets to DCA.

I don't see them loaded yet. Where did you see the upguages? (I don't doubt you, I'm just wondering where to look).

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 47):
I saw a a plane arriving from BWI midday and it had about 30-40 pax. I know WN has really low CPE, especially at ISP, but think of just the jet fuel... That can't be an awesome load...

I wonder if that was just an off day or a slow period because every time I or a member of my family has flown WN through BWI, the flight has been at least 75-80% full (or at least it seemed that way through observation).
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos