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SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Mon May 12, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 144):
Even in 2011 their counters were still in existence. The only thing missing was the kiosks.

There is no longer any DL counters at ISP. The one gate that had it, is the gate where G4 used. The only DL thing I've seen was a sticker in some back room..

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 149):
I think it didn't work because it wasn't Herb Kelleher running the company really anymore. ISP-PVD 4x is only something Herb would do.

Tanner, I hope you understand that there is more to an airline than you think.. Herb Kelleher ran the company, but any decisions that a company makes goes through more than one person..
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Mon May 12, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 150):
Tanner, I hope you understand that there is more to an airline than you think.. Herb Kelleher ran the company, but any decisions that a company makes goes through more than one person..

Duh. Sorry to sound rude, but I am very aware of that. Just that it's one other point about why WN lost interest in expansion of destinations at ISP. And in addition, from what I've heard, Herb was instrumental in the planned expansion at ISP. I know that there are lots of others who review and analyze everything that can/should/could be done, but as the executive of a company, they will direct others towards what they find important.
 
mark787
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 13, 2014 7:23 am

well. some might say that since herb left that WN has changed dramatically. Look at them now, flying into LGA, international flights, 738's. others will say that it's the LCCs going through evolution. Look at B6 and spirit flying on international flights to the Caribbean and south America. Some will even say that B6 changed considerably after Neelman left. Yes, airlines are made up of many different people but it is quite visible in history that numerous airlines were heavily influenced by the one individual at the helm. That said, WN's entrance into LGA quickly made ISP less desirable for the NYC market. Likewise, WN's increase in fares out of WN makes ISP even less desirable to folks on the west end, especially with so many choices of LCCs out of both JFK and LGA and even EWR. That makes ISP a niche airport serving a limited market that does well for WN, (again, to markets serving Florida), and to BWI with numerous connections. No other LCC will begin operations out of ISP unless WN either down grades to only a few flights a day or leaves entirely. And it very well could happen if one considers the direction that WN is taking lately, especially with LGA. Like I said before, I once booked a flight from ISP to FLL for $49.00 one way!!!! That kind of fare will make ISP a gold mine. but I think those days are long gone.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 13, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 150):
There is no longer any DL counters at ISP. The one gate that had it, is the gate where G4 used. The only DL thing I've seen was a sticker in some back room..

As of 2011 their ticketing counter was still in tact all the way at the end (in the 2001-2009 scheme). Unless Allegiant took it over.

The biggest reason ISP is so dead is lack of accessibility from the NYC area. The terminal either needs to be moved or they need quick transportation to the LIRR station in Ronkonkoma (something that operates similar to the AirTrain). Southwest caters to the needs of Long Island. A majority of us Long Islanders are close enough to JFK, not to mention the fact that people can hop on the Ronkonkoma line to Jamaica and take the AirTrain to JFK too (which is why JetBlue doesn't need to be at ISP). That part completely slipped my mind. As for Southwest, they don't serve JFK so they can have their larger operation at LGA and then their "auxiliary" NYC Operation at ISP while most airlines use LGA and JFK.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Wed May 14, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 153):
As of 2011 their ticketing counter was still in tact all the way at the end (in the 2001-2009 scheme). Unless Allegiant took it over.

I too saw lots of pictures of it. Now I believe it is Penair's desk.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 153):

The biggest reason ISP is so dead is lack of accessibility from the NYC area. The terminal either needs to be moved or they need quick transportation to the LIRR station in Ronkonkoma (something that operates similar to the AirTrain). Southwest caters to the needs of Long Island. A majority of us Long Islanders are close enough to JFK, not to mention the fact that people can hop on the Ronkonkoma line to Jamaica and take the AirTrain to JFK too (which is why JetBlue doesn't need to be at ISP). That part completely slipped my mind. As for Southwest, they don't serve JFK so they can have their larger operation at LGA and then their "auxiliary" NYC Operation at ISP while most airlines use LGA and JFK.

I think you hit all the boxes. If I may (I may get backlash with this), but the biggest reason no airlines are serving ISP is because of WN. If WN has not there, I think I could see it being a MDT sort of airport. Just curious, what is BDL's catchment? Because here is what I say to everyone who says ISP is too small a market. Anyone living in Suffolk county is closer to the airport, and that's some 1.5 million people! That is also Dulles catchment area, according to F9. And dulles has airport 40 minutes away from it, similar to Islip. I know Dulles is also D.C's international hub, but still, WN, AA, US, B6, now F9 all serve Dulles. I think accessibility is key, and that's why they need a people mover. I'd have like to think terminal relocation would work, but I think it may just be cheaper to connect the two via people mover. Maybe not even people mover, but an official free airport shuttle every 10 minutes that can go around the airport on the grounds, so like the route the people mover wanted go, but just a road with buses. It's only 2 or 3 some-odd miles from the LIRR. If they could get that, and then put it in the timetables and a little advertising, then they have an opportunity to market it as a NYC metro airport. LIRR to Ronkonkoma and you're there. While a people mover is far superior, its very costly, and my hope is that they make it free, otherwise, whats the point.
 
prosa
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Thu May 15, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 154):
ust curious, what is BDL's catchment? Because here is what I say to everyone who says ISP is too small a market. Anyone living in Suffolk county is closer to the airport, and that's some 1.5 million people!

Probably in the range of 2 to 2.5 million. That's around twice ISP's catchment population, if (as I noted earlier in the thread) you exclude the western part of Suffolk on account of its proximity to JFK and LGA. Of course BDL is many larger than ISP, not merely twice as large.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
mark787
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Thu May 15, 2014 7:48 am

Geography plays an even bigger role. Eastern Suffolk county is obvious. drive west to ISP or drive very far west in horrible traffic to JFK or LGA. Central Suffolk, same thing. but folks living in western Suffolk county and Nassau can make JFK or LGA in descent time with much more choices, probably better prices (lately), and much more choices of non-stops which many still prefer. Being on an island, ISP is locked away with 2 major airports at the west end of the island, making ISP much less of an option if you are coming from that direction. Nobody is really gonna take a ferry from across the LI sound from CT when you have both BDL and PVD nearby. IAD on the other hand attracts a market from not only the DC area, but northern portions of VA, even West Virginia is not a horribly far drive. Heck I know someone who drives from Charlottesville VA all the way to IAD. there are options. DCA and BWI. But my sister who lives in Culpeper VA will tell you, she would rather have a tooth pulled then to drive all the way to Reagan. ISP doesn't have that advantage. the further west you go on LI the more options you have because then you can add EWR, SWF, and even Westchester to the list. Better connections to the LIRR could bring a little more but again, the LIRR service to the Ronkonkoma station is hourly at best during off peak times, and a ride of almost 90 mins to NYC. Remember that the biggest area of population in Suffolk county is generally located to the west end and drops considerably once you pass ISP.
 
BOACCunard
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Thu May 15, 2014 11:26 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 149):
I don't think it didn't work because it couldn't. I think it didn't work because it wasn't Herb Kelleher running the company really anymore.

Correlation does not imply causation.  

But it's true, regardless of how much of it is about Herb Kelleher personally, Southwest has become less dependent on secondary airports like ISP over time.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 149):
ISP was not and is not a loss for WN, it's just a dormant airport at the moment that can be unleashed with the right formula.

If ISP was so successful for WN, then why do you think it scaled back?

Don't get me wrong, I think ISP is currently successful for WN, but that's because it got cut back to Florida and BWI.

Quoting mark787 (Reply 152):
some might say that since herb left that WN has changed dramatically.

It has, but no more than it changed while he was there.  
Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 154):
If WN has not there, I think I could see it being a MDT sort of airport.

ISP handles more passengers than MDT.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 154):
Just curious, what is BDL's catchment?

As a rough guess I'd say around 3 million.

But BDL is also not near any other major airports. I think I've already said this on this thread, but the nearest larger airport, BOS, is 90 miles away.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 154):
That is also Dulles catchment area, according to F9.

I assume that's considering IAD separately from DCA. In other words, IAD's catchment area excluding Washington and its inner suburbs, which are closer to DCA, but which account for much of its traffic, since many destinations are not available nonstop from DCA.
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Fri May 16, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 157):
Correlation does not imply causation.  

It does when your CEO talks openly about his interest in the airport.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 157):

If ISP was so successful for WN, then why do you think it scaled back?

Don't get me wrong, I think ISP is currently successful for WN, but that's because it got cut back to Florida and BWI.

It scaled back to its' worry of losing big. It put its' planes in places they could get higher yields. I think today, you have a chance for routes they left like MDW and LAS to be more profitable than ever now.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 157):
ISP handles more passengers than MDT.

I meant in terms of types of air service.
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 2:49 am

Really hate to double post but had some questions;

Does anyone know what happened with RyanAir and their $10 ticket transcon from places they liked like BDL, SWF, and especially ISP? Interesting how that plan of theirs from a decade never went very far.

Also, could ISP support a wide body? Could an A330-200 do ISP-LHR or CDG from a 7000' runway. I know heavies take off from BOS's 7000' rwy, but would ISP be able to do it?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 2:59 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 148):
Bingo. It was their primary NYC airport. They had close to 40 flights. It didn't work. Why would they bring it back?

I think ISP did work and still does work well. At the time they have a plan to avoid EWR, LGA because they were too delay prone. WN changed their strategy and realized they had too many business people as loyal flyers and the big cities were necessary, WN evolves to what the customers want. They had to scale ISP back it wouldn't be the only gateway to the NYC area anymore. WN use to always mention ISP was their gateway to the NYC area its all they had.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 3:03 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 159):
Does anyone know what happened with RyanAir and their $10 ticket transcon from places they liked like BDL, SWF, and especially ISP? Interesting how that plan of theirs from a decade never went very far.

If you mean Ryan International, the charter airline, it's now gone. They went bankrupt a year or two ago.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 159):
Also, could ISP support a wide body? Could an A330-200 do ISP-LHR or CDG from a 7000' runway. I know heavies take off from BOS's 7000' rwy, but would ISP be able to do it?

Possibly, but it might need a baggage restriction a la EYW.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 158):
It does when your CEO talks openly about his interest in the airport

Can you find the link to that? Or tell me where/when he said it so I could try and search for myself? It seems like it would interesting.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 157):
If ISP was so successful for WN, then why do you think it scaled back?

I agree. I think they tried something, saw that it didn't work out as well as they had hoped, and trimmed the fat, down to where they can make a decent profit, which is where it is now.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
mark787
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 4:00 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 161):

I think he meant Ryanair in Ireland. I remember talk about them looking into LCC transatlantic flights a la Laker Airways. But I heard it once and never again. Proposed destinations were to places like ISP and BDL. Last I checked ISP runways were less than 7,000ft in length, with only one measuring in the mid 6,000ft range
 
prosa
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 4:31 am

I remember the Ryanair plans. As I recall, they were more in the form of wishful thinking than anything serious.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 4:42 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 159):
Also, could ISP support a wide body?

The KC-10 often does touch and goes, but heres a few pics from the C-17 vist not too long ago..

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/737-8H4/new/98382D93-3994-44BA-8F02-3B7088339D36_zpsc06tvwpn.jpg

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/737-8H4/new/B5794BCC-BD8C-45CC-8E5B-F94E4781F604_zpssm7t6021.jpg

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/737-8H4/new/20F87C08-E3F3-4F75-B802-499112AB5C46_zpszzdjjjnd.jpg
 
FrmrKSEngr
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 5:22 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 154):
Just curious, what is BDL's catchment?

I travel to Central CT (Wallingford) and look at BDL, PVD, HPN & SWF. Generally fares have run Lowest to Highest HPN, PVD, SWF, BDL. 2 of my last three trips were through HPN on FL, and the last trip on AA to BDL. Getting to HPN for an early morning departure would be tough, but getting through Hartford is no picnic either.
 
LONGisland89
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 6:21 am

Quoting mark787 (Reply 162):
Last I checked ISP runways were less than 7,000ft in length

Runway 6/24 is actually 7,006 ft. long, however, it's still short. A 757 is about the only thing that could do it without payload penalties.
 
Beardown91737
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 8:02 am

Quoting mark787 (Reply 133):
It's an unfortunate fact that the city is where the jobs pay the money that you need to live on Long Island. That said, if your destination places you within 10 to 30 mins from ISP, hands down, a flight on WN regardless of connections will make more sense than flying into LGA or JFK. Traffic can be just as bad in Nassau county as it is on the Van Wyck. I just don't see ISP being able to support more carriers as long as WN remains the majority tenant, and I don't think that the market holds too much in the way of business travellers to lure in more carriers.

Business travelers depart from where they live. If that is in central LI, then ISP works for them.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 1:31 pm

Quoting mark787 (Reply 162):
I think he meant Ryanair in Ireland. I remember talk about them looking into LCC transatlantic flights a la Laker Airways.

Gotcha! I remember that too; the use of transcon instead of transatlantic threw me off!
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 7:22 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 168):
the use of transcon instead of transatlantic threw me off!

My bad!

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 161):
Can you find the link to that? Or tell me where/when he said it so I could try and search for myself? It seems like it would interesting.

Sure:

Quoting Herb Kelleher,http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-12-10/business/1998344127_1_flights-to-islip-southwest-airlines-announced-bwi:

"Our success is not premised on carrying any New York City traffic -- we'll do just fine with Long Island travelers," said Southwest President and Chairman Herb Kelleher.

Quoting Herb Kelleher,http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9803E1DA133EF93BA15752C1A9629C8B63:

''It's been sensational,'' he said. ''The growth has been tremendous. There are two and a half million people on Long Island. This is a great opportunity for us.''
Quoting Herb Kelleher,http://southwest.investorroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1496:

"People who live or work on Long Island can look forward to an exceptional travel value in Southwest Airlines. MacArthur Airport is an ultra-convenient facility for travel to or from Long Island and is the perfect fit with Southwest’s current route network," said Herb Kelleher, Southwest’s chairman, president, and CEO.
Quoting Herb Kelleher,http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/121098/bus_1e1south.html:

If the airline rates the Islip flights a success, the carrier may add more non-stop cities, possibly including Jacksonville, Kelleher added.

They later added JAX.

Just to name a few....  I found all of what he said about MacArthur pretty promising. Of course this was when NYC airports were crazy and B6 was just getting their first planes, but all the same....


And SXDFC, I never heard about this, what was this?
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/t...ees-picket-at-li-airport-1.5233475
 
BOACCunard
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 158):
It does when your CEO talks openly about his interest in the airport.

Perhaps. But if the routes were making enough money I don't see why WN would have discontinued them... And if they weren't, I can't imagine he'd have kept them.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 158):
It scaled back to its' worry of losing big.

I would think it knew how much money it was making, or losing, and presumably made the decision based on that.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 158):
It put its' planes in places they could get higher yields.

Is there a (for-profit) airline in the world that wouldn't do that, given the chance?

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 158):
I think today, you have a chance for routes they left like MDW and LAS to be more profitable than ever now.

Based on what? Intuition?

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 158):
I meant in terms of types of air service.

They serve totally different purposes. MDT stands on its own as the main airport in a relatively small metropolitan area. ISP is a secondary airport of an extremely large one. Flights from MDT mainly link it to the legacy carriers' hubs in the East and Midwest, presumably carrying a substantial amount of connecting traffic. This kind of service would be largely superfluous at ISP as most people would rather drive to JFK or LGA for a nonstop flight, rather than fly from ISP and connect at a hub.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 159):
Does anyone know what happened with RyanAir and their $10 ticket transcon from places they liked like BDL, SWF, and especially ISP?

What happened is it didn't.   Ryanair floats these kind of "long shot" plans all the time. Nothing ever comes of most of them.

A major European LCC is now operating transatlantic flights, though: Norwegian. And its NYC-area airport is... JFK.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 159):
Also, could ISP support a wide body?

I don't think so. Not just the runways, the terminal is not set up for that either.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 169):
I found all of what he said about MacArthur pretty promising.

Well, most of that is from 1998. The industry was dramatically different in 1998, and WN was a very different airline then as well.

The one article from 2004 is somewhat more relevant to today, but even then, things have changed a lot in the last 10 years.
Getting There is Half the Fun!
 
prosa
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sat May 17, 2014 11:59 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 170):
Ryanair floats these kind of "long shot" plans all the time. Nothing ever comes of most of them.

They're the airline that proposed putting pay toilets on its aircraft  
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 170):
I don't think so. Not just the runways, the terminal is not set up for that either.

Well, they could just pull a "McGowen" and have the town-I mean airline-pay for new facilities and charge them no rent.  
Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 170):

Based on what? Intuition?

A little bit, but I just learned where the O&D database is, and I'm going ballistic looking over every one from every quarter. I don't think I quite get it though. Are all the passenger stats per day/ one way? Last quarter (according to Q4 Table 6), ISP-LAS had 35 passengers O&D. But I don't really know if that's right because it also says ISP-IND got 19 passengers, and ISP-PHL 2 passengers (unless I'm missing something, or US Express doesn't report).... ISP-LAX Area had around 18 or 19 passengers, and ISP-PHX didn't show (???) but PHX-ISP was around 40. Also very interesting ISP-RDU at 70 pax and RDU-ISP doesn't show... Explain anyone that knows the "Domestic Airfare Report"? And also in LAS-ISP had 372 pax daily in 2nd quarter 2007 (if this source proves valid).

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 170):
Well, most of that is from 1998. The industry was dramatically different in 1998, and WN was a very different airline then as well.

The one article from 2004 is somewhat more relevant to today, but even then, things have changed a lot in the last 10 years.

But how does that change the idea that ISP was pulled back when Herb left. Would Herb have done it too? I don't really know. He pulled ISP-PVD, and I don't know how well that did, but from what I heard mostly connecting PVD-FLL traffic. He would do what what necessary, but I think IMHO Herb would've left one, at least one ISP-MDW. It allows those who may connect west from BWI another way back. Also, about the time they pulled the ISP-MDW plug, it was at about 80% loads.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 170):
Is there a (for-profit) airline in the world that wouldn't do that, given the chance?

I get that, but it has been about 3 or 4 years since last either MDW or LAS was tried and both hubs have strengthened significantly (and PHX would be a nice try in a perfect world). Since it's easier to make connections at those airports now, it'll bring some more customers to want to connect too. The thing is, WN would need to price competitively to get its' ISP customers back as well as block the leak to to JFK/LGA, and WN is probably not into being competitive because in most places, ISP has a comfortable price range for flights. It would need to probably match its' price at LGA. WN = uninterested
 
ADXMatt
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 2:29 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 11):
NK could definitely pull ISP off and, frankly, I feel that we will see Spirit at ISP sooner or later as their fleet continues to grow. I can see 1x daily to each: FLL, ORD, RSW, TPA. Maybe 3x weekly to DFW as well. I doubt we would see ISP-LAS, though I can dream I guess  
Quoting PROSA (Reply 19):
NK service at ISP actually would be a re-start. Several years ago they began service with a few daily flights to FLL, but pulled out completely after just a short time. As I recall, bad timing was the main issue, the service having started just as the recession hit and air travel slumped.

With better economic conditions today, revived service just might work.

NK was actually pretty big in ISP for awhile. They flew to the regular Florida cities with the MD80's.

NK moved all their flights to LGA the same day WN started service on the same routes.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 169):
And SXDFC, I never heard about this, what was this?

This was in protest of WN contracting work out to the newer stations, I was not apart of that.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 170):
I don't think so. Not just the runways, the terminal is not set up for that either.

As I mentioned earlier, the KC-10 does touch and goes from time to time on 06/24, and about 3 years ago Dynamic Airways chartered a 767-200 into ISP, and worked out just fine (They used one of the FBOs on the other side of rwy 24. Also if you see in the pictures above the C-17 was able to fly in and out of ISP just fine, heck they even used the much smaller runway 33L from what I was told the day they arrived. To answer the question, yes a widebody can land there, and I'd venture off to say that the 763/764 is about as big of a plane that can fit into ISP.
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 3:57 am

BREAKING NEWS, SERVICE UPDATE:

PenAir Ends Service to Islip. July 11th, 2014. Couldn't even make it a year.

Very bad news for promising service. Looks like those two new carriers they lured in don't really want Islip.

Something big is going to happen MacArthur soon, whether it privatization, new leadership, or something is coming down the pipe. I don't know 100% if Penair is ending service, but they haven't loaded it into the site, and it says on wikipedia. But it may be a "scare".

[Edited 2014-05-17 21:02:43]
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 4:48 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 175):
I don't know 100% if Penair is ending service,

They're ending service, and its no surprise considering their loads..

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 175):
Something big is going to happen MacArthur soon, whether it privatization, new leadership, or something is coming down the pipe.

Doubt it, but who knows..
 
KirkSeattle
Posts: 346
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 4:58 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 175):
BREAKING NEWS, SERVICE UPDATE:

PenAir Ends Service to Islip. July 11th, 2014
Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 175):
I don't know 100% if Penair is ending service, but they haven't loaded it into the site, and it says on wikipedia. But it may be a "scare".

We all know wikipedia doesn't offer breaking news. However, an attempt to book flights early August and beyond on penair.com show no flights available. Their website and FaceBook page offer no information, but I'll go by the inability to book flights to say farewell.

I would use ISP from Seattle if Delta had a connection as I go back to Long Island 2x a year or so. I used to do it all the time, in the days of CVG and ATL. US Air is an option, but I haven't been a fan of the airline for a long time. At one time I was Gold. Their service out of SEA is limited. Maybe things will change with the new AA.

ISP is a great little airport. It's clean, easy to access, friendly and I've always enjoyed flying in or out albeit not very frequently. My family on Long Island does use the airport though. But like many other people, it's the shuttle down to Florida. What's missing for ISP, as others have said, is some connections from the legacy's to business destinations. Its odd to me that at least ORD and ATL aren't viable. At one time they were.

My sister has business in DFW and, like everyone else on Long Island, is flying out of LGA. Not because she wants to, because she has to. Long Island is a suburb, and people drive everywhere, except the city. Unfortunately, although public transport is available to the NY metro airports, Long Islanders don't do use it unless it's a trip into Manhattan.

Hope for the best for ISP!

Cheers,
KirkSeattle
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 12:28 pm

I wouldn't judge ISP too harshly on Penair.

I'm an airline pilot based in NYC and I don't even know who the heck they are. A housewife from Selden is going to know who they are either.
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 569
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Sun May 18, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 170):
Also, could ISP support a wide body?

I don't think so. Not just the runways, the terminal is not set up for that either.

ISP's main runway, 6-24 is about 4 feet longer than both of LGA's runways. LGA has handled up to an L-1011/767-400, so based on runway length, yes ISP could handle a wide body. Could their current terminal facilities handle it? No. The other question is whether or not the airfield can support the weight of a widebody on a regular basis.

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 173):
NK was actually pretty big in ISP for awhile. They flew to the regular Florida cities with the MD80's.

NK moved all their flights to LGA the same day WN started service on the same routes.

I remember NK's ISP days. They had DTW (that was their hub at the time) and Florida. When WN started at ISP the only nonstop Florida service available was ISP-TPA. Everything else was to a "focus city" of WN's (BWI, MDW, BNA). Spirit left for the first time in 2001.

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 177):
What's missing for ISP, as others have said, is some connections from the legacy's to business destinations. Its odd to me that at least ORD and ATL aren't viable. At one time they were.

Agreed. I'm hoping to see DL come back at some point with ATL and DTW. I think ORD will happen once AA and US completely consolidate.

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 177):
Unfortunately, although public transport is available to the NY metro airports, Long Islanders don't do use it unless it's a trip into Manhattan

Just used LIRR/AirTrain to catch a flight out of JFK actually. Great option!
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Mon May 19, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 178):
I wouldn't judge ISP too harshly on Penair.

True, but even though Penair does little in terms of passenger volume, it is a connection to a city (BOS) that is an important connection. Penair never wanted to compete with everyone flying from LGA/JFK, so they priced high and got low loads.

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 177):
Its odd to me that at least ORD and ATL aren't viable. At one time they were.

Exactly, the Chicago area at one time (2Q in 2007) they were transferring 287 passengers daily to MDW. Atlanta may be more challenging, but judging by Delta's success pretty much everywhere, I can't see why ISP would be a loss to them. They serve HOU and IAH, along with the majors and SWF, HPN. Oddly no ACY, but ISP would make more sense. Las Vegas at that same time had 1000 pax daily to Orlando, and about 600 to Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, as well as some 371 pax daily to Las Vegas: http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/fil...rfare%20Report%202nd%20Quarter.pdf

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 179):
The other question is whether or not the airfield can support the weight of a widebody on a regular basis.

Do they use "better concrete" on runways with daily wide body traffic?



Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 179):
I think ORD will happen once AA and US completely consolidate.

Possible, quite possible to maybe see a EMB-175 on the route first. US Airways did a great job the new jetway. Was just at the airport today for an interview with the commissioner. I'll try to later add a transcript of the interview for my school newspaper. Extension of runways, International....
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Mon May 19, 2014 10:45 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 179):
Could their current terminal facilities handle it? No.

Pretty sure the jetways we use at the WN concourse could extend to the height of a 767.. Good question is weather

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 180):
Was just at the airport today for an interview with the commissioner.

Are you working for a newspaper of some sorts?

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 180):
that is an important connection.

How is BOS an important connection? American Eagle, and I believe CO Express tried it years ago and it didn't work for them...
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Mon May 19, 2014 10:57 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 181):
Are you working for a newspaper of some sorts?

My school newspaper. Nothing to really brag about, but he was really nice when I met him at the restaurant opening party, and said to call him. I suggested an article on the airport to my paper, and the rest is history.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 181):
How is BOS an important connection?

NYC gets loads of business (mainly) and leisure travel to BOS, and a city with 7 million people is a great connection to have. I'm not surprised KS ended it though, they couldn't advertise (enough), and lower the prices to compete, then what is there to expect. Am. Eagle and CO tried it, but in a completely different time. It shows very little about a route's ability today. MDT goes 2x daily on a Dash, so what's one time on a Dash from a larger market? Just a question, what A/C can US Airways handle at their new gate; CRJs, Dash 8s, and how about any mainline....
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Mon May 19, 2014 11:13 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 182):
NYC gets loads of business (mainly) and leisure travel to BOS

Thats NYC, NYC market is completely different from ISP, ISP is all leisure traffic and LIers going to Florida for the most part... BWI works because of its connections and for college kids for the most part going to school in Maryland/ Virginia area.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 182):
It shows very little about a route's ability today.

BOS didn't work in 2004, and doesn't work today.. If everyone wanted to go to BOS, then those flights would be leaving full, and for the most part they obviously weren't..

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 182):
Just a question, what A/C can US Airways handle at their new gate; CRJs, Dash 8s, and how about any mainline....

I've yet to see them use the gate, from what I understand they could park the CRJs there.. I've heard rumor that after the merger they're going to be handling some of the larger RJs, but we will see what happens.. I've yet to know or understand the fate of Piedmont or Air Wisconsin..
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 183):
I've yet to see them use the gate, from what I understand they could park the CRJs there.. I've heard rumor that after the merger they're going to be handling some of the larger RJs, but we will see what happens.. I've yet to know or understand the fate of Piedmont or Air Wisconsin..

I have yet to see anything handled with the new jetway. My father flew to CHS via DCA two weeks ago and his flight (3746, leaving in the evening) didn't use the jetway. Both DCA flights (during the week, at least) are on the ground at the same time as or near the same time as a PHL flight, so the jetway wouldn't be used for either of them. That leads me to believe they installed it with the intention of, like you said, using larger aircraft, or preparing to use it with CRJs on the PHL runs after the DCA flights end.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 183):
I've heard rumor that after the merger they're going to be handling some of the larger RJs, but we will see what happens.. I've yet to know or understand the fate of Piedmont or Air Wisconsin..

It'd be great to see some of the new 175s. I think AA may want to switch over from the current CRJs at DCA. I wonder if the aprons the CRJs at DCA use can support a 175... I'd like to see Air Wisconsin and Peidmont remain separate, but I have a funny feeling it's going to be sucked in the "Envoy". I wonder how the new AA livery looks on a Dash, probably really sleek.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 183):
NYC market is completely different from ISP, ISP is all leisure traffic and LIers going to Florida for the most part...

But 2x at 20 seats a day to a major city? This isn't Chattanooga Tennessee, Long Island (as bad as the economy is) has strong businesses and a market that has roots to Boston (colleges, family). There is a lot to be said about a ISP-BOS route.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 183):
If everyone wanted to go to BOS, then those flights would be leaving full,

Not true at all. Fares were the problem. Those were fares that on average were exceeding LGA and JFK. Plus, Penair did not market to business. If they worked towards contracts with even 50% of the businesses needing that route for the catchment zone, then it would a very different story.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 184):
or preparing to use it with CRJs on the PHL runs after the DCA flights end.



That's a good idea, but kinda confusing to me. US Express never uses jetways, so the fact they built one, may be hinting that something more is to come...

BTW, runways are being restriped, and Rwy15R-33L is most like expanding to 6,____ft for safety when there are strong crosswinds.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 5:28 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 185):
It'd be great to see some of the new 175s. I think AA may want to switch over from the current CRJs at DCA. I wonder if the aprons the CRJs at DCA use can support a 175... I'd like to see Air Wisconsin and Peidmont remain separate, but I have a funny feeling it's going to be sucked in the "Envoy". I wonder how the new AA livery looks on a Dash, probably really sleek.

I agree, and I am looking forward to seeing what the new livery will look like on a Dash 8. Its too bad they're not getting any Q400s..

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 185):
But 2x at 20 seats a day to a major city? This isn't Chattanooga Tennessee, Long Island (as bad as the economy is) has strong businesses and a market that has roots to Boston (colleges, family). There is a lot to be said about a ISP-BOS route.

The route clearly doesn't work, PERIOD! Its a different story out of JFK where there is more business type travel, however out here on the island you can take the ferry to CT and then drive up to BOS.. Its safe to say that for the foreseeable future there will be nobody else flying that route out of ISP.
 
runningonempty
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 1:07 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 186):
The route clearly doesn't work, PERIOD!

Let us agree to disagree. 'Any' route can work if it is well enough executed, it was poorly executed by KS.

Maybe ISP-CLT may be in the future.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 1:28 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 186):
out here on the island you can take the ferry to CT and then drive up to BOS.

The ferries are pleasant in nice weather, but they don't save a great deal of time and are quite expensive for autos.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 187):
Maybe ISP-CLT may be in the future.

See now that is something we agree with! Although I am pretty sure that would be on US metal..
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 11:17 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 6:25 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 189):
Although I am pretty sure that would be on US metal..

As in Mainline?

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 181):
Pretty sure the jetways we use at the WN concourse could extend to the height of a 767

Not sure if you can fit a 767 at a gate mostly designed for 737s. May not be enough space. If a 767 is at A2, A1 and A3 may not be usable while it's there.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 183):
Thats NYC, NYC market is completely different from ISP,

They overlap in some areas.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 180):
Do they use "better concrete" on runways with daily wide body traffic?

ISP uses asphalt. I know that airfields have weight-bearing capacity limits too.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 185):
US Express never uses jetways, so the fact they built one, may be hinting that something more is to come...

So the B concourse has a second jetway now?
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
Posts: 272
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 190):
They overlap in some areas.

   They really do. Parts of eastern Nassau and Western Suffolk are "NYC Market". There are a lot of businesses in Brookhaven, Islip, Farmingdale, etc. that work a lot in NYC including on skyscrapers (and WTC more specifically), but there is NYC Market on Long Island. We can bury Boston for a while, but Charlotte offers great connecting opportunities, and a place a lot of people want to go. RDU only makes sense as well...

Quoting prosa (Reply 188):
don't save a great deal of time and are quite expensive for autos.

Exactly. There can be a market for it if the price is right.

Sad to see,but the news media caught up to it (^^^Above was written before I heard this news^^^)

http://libn.com/2014/05/20/penair-departing-macarthur/

I'll take out some good points:

“They also had to understand they can’t cancel flights, and that’s really what it was,” Schaefer said. “It just didn’t work. Their planes have 33 seats that they had to fill, and we were getting around 16 passengers to a flight, so it was tough to get businessmen to be consistent.”

The Alaska-based airline, which runs service between Boston and various smaller airports around the Northeast, has scheduled its last Long Island-Boston flights for July 11, although Melissa Roberts, PenAir’s vice president of marketing and sales, said that would not necessarily be the final day for the twice-daily flights that currently serve as Long Island’s only nonstop routes to Boston. PenAir is shooting to end service sometime between July and August, Roberts noted.

“There will be news about somebody else picking up the Boston flight,” Schaefer said. “We’ll know by the end of next week. It was someone who’d inquired about it last year. We just have to confirm.”
   I smell Capeair.... (Or long shot with US)

Newsday had an article too, but it was less informative....


So, ISP-BOS lives on (we think)!

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 190):
So the B concourse has a second jetway now?

Yeah, I saw it yesterday and took a double take because Allegiant was there and I couldn't see its' jetway, but yeah.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Tue May 20, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 191):
“There will be news about somebody else picking up the Boston flight,” Schaefer said. “We’ll know by the end of next week. It was someone who’d inquired about it last year. We just have to confirm.”
   I smell Capeair.... (Or long shot with US)

Newsday had an article too, but it was less informative....


So, ISP-BOS lives on (we think)!

I think Cape Air could make it work with their new Islanders (if not the Cessnas)
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Wed May 21, 2014 2:30 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 191):
Yeah, I saw it yesterday and took a double take because Allegiant was there and I couldn't see its' jetway, but yeah.

CLT is coming, why else would they have added a jetway? They clearly need it for a larger aircraft (E170 or bigger). CRJs and Dash 8s don't need it.

Also, now that Allegiant is suspending service we have another jetway available or use. Come on Delta!
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
THEFLLFLYER
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Wed May 21, 2014 3:00 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 187):
Maybe ISP-CLT may be in the future.

Or MIA   
 
SXDFC
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Wed May 21, 2014 6:27 am

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 190):
As in Mainline?

Most likely US Airways Express/ Envoy metal.. I cant remember the last time I saw US mainline at ISP..

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 190):
Not sure if you can fit a 767 at a gate mostly designed for 737s. May not be enough space. If a 767 is at A2, A1 and A3 may not be usable while it's there.

The jetways can raise up to the height of a 767, but I agree with you about parking it there.. The only time I've ever seena 767 ( 767-200 ) was parked at the FBO located on the other side of the airport..

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 190):
They overlap in some areas.

Yeah Florida, and perhaps the Carolinas.. Whatever other markets there are, people connect to them via BWI on WN..

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 190):
So the B concourse has a second jetway now?

Has had it for awhile now, at least since November 2013..

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 191):
I smell Capeair.... (Or long shot with US)

Now that would be interesting to see.. However very few have heard of Capeair.. If they can make it work, than kudos to them..

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 193):
CLT is coming, why else would they have added a jetway?

They could also use it for the CRJs, however I've yet to see that happen.. Whatever it maybe, I hope it works out for the best for them..

Quoting THEFLLFLYER (Reply 194):
Or MIA

Can already fly there via FLL on WN.
 
runningonempty
Topic Author
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Wed May 21, 2014 1:15 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 195):
However very few have heard of Capeair..

True, but they have a lot less seat to fill. Maybe 2 or 3 times at 9 pax, so thats one frequency Penair was running. They will most likely offer "premium" costs, not really helping the "average" traveller to get to Boston, but they may be alright. I don't know how comfortable passengers (LIers) will feel on a cessna...



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 195):
Can already fly there via FLL on WN.


Yeah, I can't imagine them ever competing with WN.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 195):
however I've yet to see that happen..

Interesting. Then again, did US pay for it, or did the airport?

Couldn't if the town built it let mainline aircraft use the jetway, and then US use the two gates in the saucer? I'd love to see the saucer reopen.
 
prosa
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Wed May 21, 2014 2:34 pm

I'm surprised there isn't more of a market for ISP-BOS. Boston is the sort of destination that attracts many people, and because it has very good mass transit you don't always need a car and therefore flying is a decent option. Another thing is that unless it's a weekend you are unlikely to avoid the misery of rush hour traffic when driving from Long Island to Boston. Leave anytime before about 10 am and you'll run into miserable traffic on the Long Island Expressway as you make your way to the Throgs Neck Bridge and its obscene tolls. Leave in the afternoon and you should make it across the bridge without too much drama, but then you'll get nailed on I-95 in Westchester County and Connecticut.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 569
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RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Thu May 22, 2014 4:59 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 195):
Yeah Florida, and perhaps the Carolinas.. Whatever other markets there are, people connect to them via BWI on WN..

No, you misunderstood. I meant the catchment areas. JFK/LGA and ISP overlap on Long Island. There are areas that are in ISP's range that are also in JFK/LGA's range.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 195):
Whatever other markets there are, people connect to them via BWI on WN..

There are very many areas that WN does not serve at all which would require a legacy to provide direct access. WN does not fly to the following Florida cities:
Sarasota, Melbourne, Gainesville, Daytona Beach (leave MCO out of it; US requires a double connection; also large enough for DL Mainline service), Miami (yes, they have FLL, but there are some areas where MIA is easier), Tallahassee, and soon Key West.

Savannah and Myrtle Beach also come to mind.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 195):
They could also use it for the CRJs, however I've yet to see that happen.. Whatever it maybe, I hope it works out for the best for them..

It's a pretty logical guess that it is in place to accommodate larger aircraft.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 195):
The jetways can raise up to the height of a 767, but I agree with you about parking it there.. The only time I've ever seena 767 ( 767-200 ) was parked at the FBO located on the other side of the airport..

Of course they can, but we agree, it's the parking space that's the issue. The gate space is not designed for widebodies.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3919
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Islip MacArthur (KISP)- What's The Future?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 198):

As somebody who flies ISP-MYR quite a bit, I can attest to that.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.

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