Alexandro Le Roy, head of DGAC (Mexican Civil Aviation Authority) stated that authorities will be working during this year to allow unlimited entry of foreign airlines in international services to Mexico. They will be focusing in renegotiating bilateral treaties, especially the one with the US which allows only 3 carriers from each country in certain routes. He also mentioned that SCT (Ministry of Transport and Communications) will work to allow 5th freedoms flights to the country. He offered an example citing Air France being able to fly Madrid to Mexico.
These statments seem to have gone unnoticed in the media. Given their importance, I paste here the source published in Milenio http://www.milenio.com/negocios/Prom...ineas-extranjeras_0_294570583.html (only in Spanish).
This opens many possibilities for the long overdue services to Middle East and may be new services to Asia.
pZZ
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
I would guess B6 jumps in on JFK-MEX if open skies comes about.
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atcsundevil
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RE: Open Skies To Mexico
Weren't EK representatives just in MEX? I suppose the two couldn't be related... 
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
Surprised they're so anxious to open their country up to multiple carriers on every route. I doubt that AM, Y4 or 4O will survive such an onslaught.
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- QANTAS747-438
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RE: Open Skies To Mexico
Southwest will be salivating over this one at LAX.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 4): Southwest will be salivating over this one at LAX. |
NAFTA has been in effect for twenty years leading to immense growth in trade and travel, and Southwest has done squat in Mexico despite strengths in SoCal, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Texas, and Chicago. It's a strategic blunder of immense proportion - as if BA never bothered to fly TATL. That they are three years beyond the AirTran acquisition and still developing international connection-capable ticketing shows just how little they understand the plot.
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- QANTAS747-438
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RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 5): That they are three years beyond the AirTran acquisition |
Actually, the acquisition is right on schedule as laid out in 2010. It was always the plan to be completed at the end of 2014.
| Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 5): still developing international connection-capable ticketing shows just how little they understand the plot. |
I agree that WN is super slow in developing new technology, but saying that they don't understand "the plot" is incorrect. Now that WN has woken up to the international scene, they are in full force in developing new routes and opportunities. LAX for example is working on a remodel that includes access to customs for international flights. The new HOU terminal, FLL, etc... Southwest understands it.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 6): I agree that WN is super slow in developing new technology, but saying that they don't understand "the plot" is incorrect. Now that WN has woken up to the international scene, they are in full force in developing new routes and opportunities. LAX for example is working on a remodel that includes access to customs for international flights. The new HOU terminal, FLL, etc... Southwest understands it. |
As Much as we would like to think WN slept on the ball? They didn't have the Infrastructure to go into Mexico. It's not just go "Bombs away" to Mexico. The Mexican's are tough, and they Exercise their Authority . We have TODAY mechanics in Mexico that are United, And Continental because Mexico has not gotten around to recognizing the merger. They Regularly go on board and try and copy log books and inspect the airplanes amd if an airplane should break down there? It Can be a major headache dealing with the Mexican CAA. On the Good side?? Alll their Line Mechanics carry US FAA Certification and they're really pretty darn good. But calling to Mexico?? A PAIN in the Wazoo!!
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 3): I doubt that AM, Y4 or 4O will survive such an onslaught. |
It may add a few new carriers to Mexico. It would give some airlines that are a bit more premium the chance to expand into this new market. The Mexican public, including myself will pay for quality in an airline. WN expanding into Mexico will be horrible providing Soda and Peanuts into Mexican cities on long flights. Also the flight attendants whom speak English have a very hard time serving the non-english speakers on flights. One such example is the Alaska flight from LAX. Alaska's coach service with a Tamale from LAX-GDL isn't quality for me.
In my opinion when I have flown, the pilots trained in Mexico are able to handle flying through storms (thunder/lightning) than US pilots. This is from 15 years of experience flying. I have had better experiences flying on AM, MX, Y4. As a person I think fares will be cheaper, but I don't think it will threaten the businesses of established airlines. Jetblue, Spirit, Southwest are not quality airlines. In today's world the quality airlines are International not US airlines.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting OAKflyer (Reply 8): I have had better experiences flying on AM, MX, Y4. As a person I think fares will be cheaper, but I don't think it will threaten the businesses of established airlines. Jetblue, Spirit, Southwest are not quality airlines. In today's world the quality airlines are International not US airlines. |
Hoping your right...competition from WN could be formidable. Volaris's financial state seems a bit tenuous after reading their 1st quarter 2014 results that were full of excuses for their poor performance. If fares drop to/from the US then I think they'll be the first to go, especially if Mexico grants fifth freedom rights. That would be a huge boon to airlines such as AS or WN that could offer service via GLD, MEX, ect to places further south in Central/South America.
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- WA707atMSP
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- toxtethogrady
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RE: Open Skies To Mexico
The one airline that would have jumped on this back in the day, United (formerly Continental) has been doing some backsliding. I'm not sure how much of an incentive open skies is to them anymore.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 10): I think AA will jump faster than B6; AA has wanted to fly JFK-MEX since the late 1950s. I could also see AA adding LAX-MEX. |
No doubt - I could definitely see AA being interested in both of these markets in particular.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
I have grave doubts about any blanket liberalization as it goes against decades of Mexican government policy.
One of the hallmarks of Mexican economy has been protectionist policies for domestic industries and companies.
Any liberalization has come in slow stages to avoid flooding the market and hurting Mexican companies.
As recently as last year the Mexican government complained that the existing bilateral greatly favors the US side already with US carriers having a huge 84% market share in capacity between the nations.
EK does not need open-skies to serve MEX. Simply a bilateral between the two countries.
And there are routes WN could have started years ago from LAX if they had the desire. They dont need open-skies to apply for existing authorities.
Y4 is profitable - record profit in 2013 (MXN $265.3mil), and analyst expect something around breakeven in Q2 and profit for Q3, Q4 along with an annual profit .
They are hardly on the verge of tipping over, just going through a rapid growth phase with related cost all the while the market is still only luke warm.
One of the hallmarks of Mexican economy has been protectionist policies for domestic industries and companies.
Any liberalization has come in slow stages to avoid flooding the market and hurting Mexican companies.
As recently as last year the Mexican government complained that the existing bilateral greatly favors the US side already with US carriers having a huge 84% market share in capacity between the nations.
| Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 2): Weren't EK representatives just in MEX? I suppose the two couldn't be related... |
EK does not need open-skies to serve MEX. Simply a bilateral between the two countries.
| Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 4): Southwest will be salivating over this one at LAX. |
And there are routes WN could have started years ago from LAX if they had the desire. They dont need open-skies to apply for existing authorities.
| Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 9): Volaris's financial state seems a bit tenuous after reading their 1st quarter 2014 results that were full of excuses for their poor performance. If fares drop to/from the US then I think they'll be the first to go |
Y4 is profitable - record profit in 2013 (MXN $265.3mil), and analyst expect something around breakeven in Q2 and profit for Q3, Q4 along with an annual profit .
They are hardly on the verge of tipping over, just going through a rapid growth phase with related cost all the while the market is still only luke warm.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 11): The one airline that would have jumped on this back in the day, United (formerly Continental) has been doing some backsliding. I'm not sure how much of an incentive open skies is to them anymore. |
Jeez!! We've been in Mexico for what 20 years now?? And before the merger Continental was heavy into Mexico. We fly to all the popular destinations What ELSE is there for United to do We haven't done already??
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): Y4 is profitable - record profit in 2013 (MXN $265.3mil), and analyst expect something around breakeven in Q2 and profit for Q3, Q4 along with an annual profit . They are hardly on the verge of tipping over, just going through a rapid growth phase with related cost all the while the market is still only luke warm. |
Thanks for the info...I wondered why things sounded gloomy when it seemed they have a great business model. I've heard flying into Toluca/TLC instead of MEX is the way to go!
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15): I've heard flying into Toluca/TLC instead of MEX is the way to go! |
Depends where you are go!--ing. If you are going to the Santa Fe part of the city it´s great. Other than that, specially if you are going to Reforma or anything Southern than that it´s a pain.
I wonder if anyone has read the article. I have. And yes, I understand that there is no translation in English, but even in Spanish, it is frankly a very confusing article, full of contradictions and rather difficult to draw conclusions from.
What I could only draw from it, with any certainty, is that the Mexican Government might be in a way, possibly, thinking about maybe implementing open skies from the US to certain very particular Mexican cities.
That´s it.
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atcsundevil
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RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): EK does not need open-skies to serve MEX. Simply a bilateral between the two countries. |
I was referring to this:
| Quoting pzurita1 (Thread starter): He also mentioned that SCT (Ministry of Transport and Communications) will work to allow 5th freedoms flights to the country. |
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- dlflynhayn
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RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting OAKflyer (Reply 8): ne such example is the Alaska flight from LAX. Alaska's coach service with a Tamale from LAX-GDL isn't quality for me. |
One of the reasons why i don't fly AS no more..I'll even prefer flying Volaris to GDL now since DL can't make up there mine of what there doing on the LAX-GDL route..Also hopefully with this DL can bring back LAX-MEX!!
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): One of the hallmarks of Mexican economy has been protectionist policies for domestic industries and companies. Any liberalization has come in slow stages to avoid flooding the market and hurting Mexican companies. |
Well, opening up the energy sector should be a very clear sign that things are finally changing. The change started shortly after 1988 but it was always too slow, too gradual and in many instances frozen by deadlock in Congress. If the energy sector is being liberalized, I would not be surprised to see aviation follow.
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): EK does not need open-skies to serve MEX. Simply a bilateral between the two countries. |
Which already exists.
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): As recently as last year the Mexican government complained that the existing bilateral greatly favors the US side already with US carriers having a huge 84% market share in capacity between the nations. |
Well, the liberatlization of the US-Mexico bilateral would benefit both sides, but U.S. carriers probably have more to win, simply because there are more carriers in the U.S. than in Mexico, and more fliers in the U.S. than in Mexico.
| Quoting AR385 (Reply 16): Depends where you are go!--ing. If you are going to the Santa Fe part of the city it´s great. Other than that, specially if you are going to Reforma or anything Southern than that it´s a pain. |
Even then, I dunno. A taxi from Santa Fe to TLC is still more expensive than a taxi to MEX. And if it is not rush hour, there is very little difference in the duration of the commute. Without a rapid transit system that is modern and affordable, TLC just does not come up to the expectations that everyone had. TLC is not a true alternative for Mexico City inhabitants, not even for the people who live in the wealthy western neighborhoods and suburbs.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
I hope something opens up.
When I fly to Upstate New York, I still find, by far, the cheapest and fastest alternative is to drive from my home here in Southern Sonora (Alamos) all the way to Tucson AZ, park my car at Tucson Intl and fly from there....
Reverse it for the return home. (that's an 11 hr car ride... driving through cities, military checkpoint, border crossing each way...)
Hermosillo with close to 1 million inhabitants, Obregon with close to 400k just have nothing.
Navojoa/Guaymas.... absolutely nothing. Years ago I flew GYM (Guaymas) to ALB (Albany NY) for $1100usd walk up fare.. (emergency trip).
That's not even an option anymore. No Intl flights into GYM.
How nice a WN flight into Hermosillo would be... Or at least an affordable Mexican Carrier out of HMO (Hermosillo) to some place that I can catch a timely EastCoast Bound flight to..
I read the article... I understood even less of it than AR385.
But change would be nice.
[Edited 2014-05-08 17:17:20]
When I fly to Upstate New York, I still find, by far, the cheapest and fastest alternative is to drive from my home here in Southern Sonora (Alamos) all the way to Tucson AZ, park my car at Tucson Intl and fly from there....
Reverse it for the return home. (that's an 11 hr car ride... driving through cities, military checkpoint, border crossing each way...)
Hermosillo with close to 1 million inhabitants, Obregon with close to 400k just have nothing.
Navojoa/Guaymas.... absolutely nothing. Years ago I flew GYM (Guaymas) to ALB (Albany NY) for $1100usd walk up fare.. (emergency trip).
That's not even an option anymore. No Intl flights into GYM.
How nice a WN flight into Hermosillo would be... Or at least an affordable Mexican Carrier out of HMO (Hermosillo) to some place that I can catch a timely EastCoast Bound flight to..
I read the article... I understood even less of it than AR385.
But change would be nice.
[Edited 2014-05-08 17:17:20]
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
Hehe, KL coming back to GUA with a stop in MEX like in the old days.
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
One barrier to Open Skies to Mexico is if you live anywhere close to the borders, you can often just catch the flight on the US side at great savings.
The Long Haul Buses are really efficient throughout Mexico (No Goats / Chickens on Buses Jokes).
Most of the lines have much newer and nicer buses than what the US counterparts do (Trailways).
For folks hours away from the California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas Borders.... The bus is a good alternative.
The seats are far more comfortable than coach seats on a plane.
I could literally bus it from my home to Las Vegas for under $200usd round trip. (not that I would want to .. but I could).
Bus companies like Albatross, Tufesa and TAP are class acts.
Open Skies would really have to lower prices before we'd see more connectivity options (at least in my neck of the woods).
Peter
The Long Haul Buses are really efficient throughout Mexico (No Goats / Chickens on Buses Jokes).
Most of the lines have much newer and nicer buses than what the US counterparts do (Trailways).
For folks hours away from the California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas Borders.... The bus is a good alternative.
The seats are far more comfortable than coach seats on a plane.
I could literally bus it from my home to Las Vegas for under $200usd round trip. (not that I would want to .. but I could).
Bus companies like Albatross, Tufesa and TAP are class acts.
Open Skies would really have to lower prices before we'd see more connectivity options (at least in my neck of the woods).
Peter
RE: Open Skies To Mexico
| Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 20): How nice a WN flight into Hermosillo would be... Or at least an affordable Mexican Carrier out of HMO (Hermosillo) to some place that I can catch a timely EastCoast Bound flight to.. |
WN could start HMO tomorrow. They dont need open-skies for that.
Matter of fact virtually any route could be flown from HMO today. Open-skies would not change this.
Lack of service to/from HMO is more an issue with how airlines might view the HMO market, not lack of liberal air-service agreements or traffic rights.
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