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ojas
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Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 8:40 am

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...es-earned-11b-fiscal-year-23634481
http://www.thenational.ae/business/a...fit-up-43-to-dh3-3-billion-in-2013

Emirates announces a profit of USD1.1bn, revenue for the period rose 13 percent to $23.9 billion.

The following year will be interesting though with the runway closure impacting revenues.

[Edited 2014-05-08 01:42:47]
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AirIndia
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 8:48 am

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
The following year will be interesting though with the runway closure impacting revenues.

anticipated loss is only 275mn US$ in revenues.... (1% of total).
 
flythere
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 8:51 am

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
Emirates announces a profit of USD1.1bn, revenue for the period rose 13 percent to $23.9 billion.

That's quite a substantial profit margin for an airline in this era~
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 9:16 am

Amazing result as much of the industry hemorrhages cash  
 
maxter
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 9:36 am

Great news, but cue the inevitable moaning about how EK can only do that because they get free fuel, free airport use, free parking, free lawn mowing, free laundry etc. etc. Did I forget a free something else???
maxter
 
mwhcvt
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 10:00 am

Quoting maxter (Reply 4):

Free planes  as we all know Airbus give them the A380 
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 11:41 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 11:50 am

Amazing performance. Traffic growth of 13%.   

I still don't understand why they need all those planes.      
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 12:54 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
Amazing performance. Traffic growth of 13%.   

I still don't understand why they need all those planes.      

To make more $$$$$$

It's amazing, not only EK but Dubai Airport, both of them are going very fast towards the first spot in pax numbers.

In the first month of the year DXB became the 3rd busiest airport in the world with 6, 4 million pax, most of them EK, And I'm pretty sure that soon it will be up there in cargo as well.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
Fuel costs in 2013 were down by 4%.

It could be very interesting to compare with other big airlines, to see if that's the global price or good contract for EK. I heard from a friend that now they introduce single engine taxi to save fuel, but that can't make 4%.

Quoting maxter (Reply 4):
Great news, but cue the inevitable moaning about how EK can only do that because they get free fuel, free airport use, free parking, free lawn mowing, free laundry etc. etc. Did I forget a free something else???

Free labour....
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 1:29 pm

They probably get a nice break on fuel prices, but then most customers in the Gulf States get that kind of break.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 2:10 pm

I would really like to know how much revenue/profit is generated by cargo and EK's premium cabin.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
Amazing result as much of the industry hemorrhages cash

Are they? US carriers are doing fairly well. The industry as a whole has been doing well in general and will continue strengthen this year.
 
mutu
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 10):

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
Amazing result as much of the industry hemorrhages cash

Are they? US carriers are doing fairly well. The industry as a whole has been doing well in general and will continue strengthen this year.

Agree, there are plenty of major carriers doing as well or nearly as well, certainly in absolute profit terms.

But there are still some basket cases out there and some only just turning the corner with aggressive restructuring.
 
wingman
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 6:46 pm

I'd love to see a 10 year chart combining key performance indicators such as revenue, profit, passengers, carried, destinations, fleet size by seats and aircraft etc etc between EK and the major flag carriers that compete against them most directly (LH, BA, AF/KLM, QF, SIA, SAA?, others?).

I admit I was one of the naysayers back in the paleolithic era of A.net, but damed if I haven't eaten my own hat 10 times over. Truly a remarkable story.
 
boysteve
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 6:57 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 12):

I'd love to see a 10 year chart combining key performance indicators such as revenue, profit, passengers, carried, destinations, fleet size by seats and aircraft etc etc between EK and the major flag carriers

Well there is a good table showing the EK data from 1997 onwards (if you believe it) at;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_(airline)

Although it needs updating with the latest data.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 9):

They probably get a nice break on fuel prices, but then most customers in the Gulf States get that kind of break.

They pay exactly the same price for fuel at Dubai as every other airline serving the airport. There's no subsidy via fuel, in fact fuel is often a higher proportion of EK's cost than for many other airlines (partly due to their lower labour costs).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):

Fuel costs in 2013 were down by 4%.

How can that be, they don't pay for fuel     
 
mutu
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Thu May 08, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 12):
I'd love to see a 10 year chart combining key performance indicators such as revenue, profit, passengers, carried, destinations, fleet size by seats and aircraft etc etc between EK and the major flag carriers that compete against them most directly (LH, BA, AF/KLM, QF, SIA, SAA?, others?).

Well as a taster BA numbers for the 12 months to 31 December 2013:

Revenue $19.36bn
operating profit $1.2bn
 
b747400erf
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 2:22 am

Favorable leasing rates, low fuel costs at their hub compared to the rest of the world, government built and expanded hubs, cheap labor with no pesky contracts and labor unions, that all certainly helps.

[Edited 2014-05-08 19:25:42]
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 3:37 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 17):

Favorable leasing rates, low fuel costs at their hub compared to the rest of the world, government built and expanded hubs, cheap labor with no pesky contracts and labor unions, that all certainly helps.

Yeah that alone is bigger than people think. I agree they are not getting as many breaks as people might think, but the govt backing, lending, and labor/tax does add up to a lot.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 4:03 am

If you buy tickets on EK, fly EK and manage to see the fare premium they got in some routes, then it is easy to believe they produce a nice result.

They have a winning model, created by other airlines in fact. As they decided for example to leave secondary markets, as they decided to focus on what they believe to be high yield, they just open a great opportunity that gulf carriers, and in special EK, manage to bet and create a great business model.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 4:33 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 8):
It could be very interesting to compare with other big airlines,

Platts keeps track of jet fuel prices (you need to register to view) and they reported that SQ saw their fuel costs fall by 3.3% during 2013-2014.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
chiad
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 5:07 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 17):
Favorable leasing rates, low fuel costs at their hub compared to the rest of the world, government built and expanded hubs, cheap labor with no pesky contracts and labor unions, that all certainly helps.

I see many A-net members post this.
Is it true? Do we know this for sure or is it just someones opinion that others like to repeat?
I have never seen any numbers or evidence to prove this, but I understand that they can be hard to produce.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 5:31 am

compare the average income with US and European carriers and don't forget to add the 50% social costs share the employer has to pay on top of the gross pay.

Then., no unions, no strikes. LH lost € 70 Mio (US$ 98 Million) on strikes alone in the first 4 months, 14 Million of which could not be influenced by the Company.

Then., I find the margin not so impressive, especially not under the conditions they have at their base. LH targets an operating margin of 8%.

It is a full time Job to analyse such figures and the analysts keep the results locked up. But just the re-financing model for the A380 is supposed to net them US$ 1 1/2 Million per aircraft when Export credits and the sale and lease back under the German KG (shareholder mmodel) scheme, BTW, sort of crowd funding Long before this term became popular
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 6:14 am

Quoting chiad (Reply 21):
Do we know this for sure or is it just someones opinion that others like to repeat?

Well they are certainly claims that are repeated but there has yet to be published any real evidence. It is all supposition. Yet if it were true, surely by now some hard evidence would have emerged.

Given the repeated claims that Dubai is a dreadful place to work, one would have expected at least one former disgruntled employee to have spilled the beans with real evidence. Surely the security at EK can not be such that employees are strip searched before leaving work each day. If so, it is much tighter than security at NSA and the CIA, which are sieves in comparison.

The other aspect. If the EU, US, Australia and others suspected that EK was receiving favourable terms that breached bilateral agreements regarding equal treatment of carriers, would they not have acted by now?

Who was it that said, if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes an accepted truth?
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
sierra3tango
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 7:46 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 23):

Quite right

I'm no fan of EK having flown them tooo many times to remember and am not a great fan of it as an airline
but there are these never ending (jealous) accusations of foul play which don't hold water

A few years back the Govt of Dubai was bust and was dependent on Govt owned companies (principally EK)
to prop it up. The local electricity & water company was even stripped of all available cash to prop up the
(then) tottering edifice. Abu Dhabi helped out, but that came at a cost (ie Khalifa Tower, RTA etc). The last
armed conflict between the 2 Emirates was only 60 years ago, they are friends now but they have looong
memories.

Financially the patient might be out of intensive care but its still in the recovery room.

Fuel subsidy is a big joke. There is little refining capacity in UAE outside Abu Dhabi which the Govt of Dubai
don't want to rely on (even if it had the capacity). Most of the Jet A1 consumed in the Northern Emirates (ie
excluding AUH) is imported. Remember running a project on a quay wall at the Petroleum Berths in Jebel
Ali. We had 56 hours to complete the work and the tanker discharging (Jet A1 from BAPCO in Bahrain) was
2 hours late off the berth. Went onboard to complain to the master with zero results but saw the original
manifest addressed to ENOC and Air BP. (BTW have seen Air BP pumps on EK aircraft in DXB). So are
we to be led to believe the Gov't of Dubai is somehow backhanding subsidies to BAPCO in Bahrain and
Air BP are in on the deal, oh and this fact hasn't got out! Yeah well.....

Cheap labour, its the same for all of the ME3 and other airlines in the Middle East. EK provide better than
the UAE labour market rules minima and if it is so bad why do people come from all over the world to work
in EK / Dubai Airport / DNATA. Maybe EK doesn't have the social security costs like the Western airlines
but it does have to pay for medical insurance for its staff, it has to reserve in its accounts for Gratuity or
Leaving Indemnity under UAE Employment Laws (as do all ME airlines) and most expensively it has to
pay for accommodation for all its expatriate staff which make up the majority of personnel

As for quality of life, I've lived in the region for over 25 years, its a different life here (Asia is) not all good
or bad.

As stated I no fan of EK as an airline, but some of the rubbish being bandied about doesn't hold water

[Edited 2014-05-09 00:52:00]
 
tommy1808
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 8:29 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 24):
As stated I no fan of EK as an airline, but some of the rubbish being bandied about doesn't hold water

While EK might be a decent employer, it will be hard to deny that they benefit from the employer friendly environment whenever they need stuff done by others, like construction work. -> http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...he-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
sierra3tango
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 9:58 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 25):
While EK might be a decent employer, it will be hard to deny that they benefit from the employer friendly environment whenever they need stuff done by others, like construction work. -> http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/....html

Hmm your link is dated April 2009 and written during the dark days when bankruptcy loomed

Many of the sub texts relate to living in Dubai, totally unrelated to EK, not that I totally disagree with all of them

But the one sub text that could be related to EK's success is the supposed use of slave labour / the labour camp
scenario to build infrastructure at a knock down rate.

In my work in offshore marine I sometimes come across construction labour camps / issues on Projects and
what the journalist reports is only to a degree correct (then) but somewhat dramatized.

Can pick many holes in it, for example the
1) Labour Law requires a mid day working break from mid June to mid September (not applicable offshore) from
about 12.30 to 15.30 during the mid day heat and it is enforced; temperatures can (very occasionally) get up to
55C, but work stops at 50C
2) Wages / salary on time - there is a Govt system which ensures that all workers get paid on time (it'd take too long
to detail here)
3) Employers must pay for a healthcare insurance
4) the complications of complying with say Phillipine Gov't regulations to recruit expat workers which totally conflict
with UAE Labour Laws makes honouring pre arrival contracts to the letter almost impossible
5) I could go on and on

The point is that like any article there is some truth in these labour issues but somewhat dramatized, the
situation is better now than then - its not perfect but its (in many cases) better than those existing in their
home countries, otherwise why would they come? They want work which they cannot get (at any reasonable
pay rate) at home.

The very same argument of cheap labour to build cheap infrastructure could be used in many southern Asian
countries and so benefit that country's airlines with an unfair advantage. Point is it doesn't seem to happen, yes
you may get a new terminal at BOM or something like that but in general it doesn't happen

To those who might say they are all prisoners who can't leave, I would ask the question who fills up all the
planes (in Y) going all over the Indian sub continent from DXB, its not all connecting PAX; its workers going
on annual leave from DXB, seen it thousands of times with my own eyes
 
tommy1808
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 10:19 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 26):
4) the complications of complying with say Phillipine Gov't regulations to recruit expat workers which totally conflict
with UAE Labour Laws makes honouring pre arrival contracts to the letter almost impossible

A contract is a contract is a contract. If those laws conflict, they shouldn´t make them, if they make them, they have to keep them. How they do is hardly the problem of the hired workers. Clearly this a a problem of the UAE/UAE companies alone and at best an insolence. That is just like the pirates of the old days saying that Shanghaiing crew was just a result of conflicting labor laws between Tortuga and the United Kingdom....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 10:56 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):

They pay exactly the same price for fuel at Dubai as every other airline serving the airport. There's no subsidy via fuel, in fact fuel is often a higher proportion of EK's cost than for many other airlines (partly due to their lower labour costs).

Not realky, it's true that they dont get subsidy, but each airline usualky negotiate the pruce of the fuel base in the uplift forecast, usually every 3 months, for example I'm sure that BA get a better price than EK for fuel in LHR Beacause the volume they purchase it's immensely higher tham EK.

For many airlibes fuel cost can be up to 60-70% of the operational cost of certain flight. That's why aviation is so sensitive to fuel prices and hence the fuel surchargers for tickets.

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 20):
Platts keeps track of jet fuel prices (you need to register to view) and they reported that SQ saw their fuel costs fall by 3.3% during 2013-2014.

This is an important fact to prove that EK is just working at more or less the same conditions fuel-wise.

Quoting mutu (Reply 16):
Favorable leasing rates, low fuel costs at their hub compared to the rest of the world, government built and expanded hubs, cheap labor with no pesky contracts and labor unions, that all certainly helps.

Who paid for LHR T-5 or MAD T-4?? I do agree that they have some help but not everything is true regarding what people says.
Actually I'm sure that EK would be much happier if DWC'd be the mega hub they're planning, 6 runways, huge spaces, custom design terminals, lounges.... but right now theyre at DXB with only 1 runway operative.
Look at TK and the new mega airport they are building at Istambul, local govertments do help, not only in UAE.
 
PanHAM
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 11:11 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 28):
for example I'm sure that BA get a better price than EK for fuel in LHR Beacause the volume they purchase it's immensely higher tham EK.

That is true for any hub of a Major carrier and equalizes things. profits are made in purchasing, some Airlines did use hedging to Keep their costs down.



Quoting migair54 (Reply 28):
Who paid for LHR T-5 or MAD T-4??

Ultimately the passengers. Terminals are infrastructure that is paid by use. In modern days aviation (and railroading) terminals are Shopping centres. Fraport makes 50% of ist turnover in retail and renting and that figure is not much different in London or Madrid or Dubai.

The difference in Dubai is, that everything is owned by the ruling Family, from the Country down to the handling agents.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 27):
A contract is a contract is a contract

In countries ruled by the law, a low paid worker can go to court and has the same rights as the billionaire. In feudal countries the low paid workers and the maids have no rights at all
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
sierra3tango
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 11:14 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 27):

Yes but whose law is it written under? and where is it enforceable? Try enforcing a contract in another
jurisdiction which does not comply with the law of the host country, not possible - its the same the world over.
Had it many times in (non labour) contractual disputes unrelated to the Middle East

Its for the Governments of the respective countries to sort it out between themselves they have all Embassies
in the UAE and can if they wish support their own nationals; the trouble is that they mostly don't, or least not
to the necessary extent. The expatriate's Government want the income generated repatriated and the host
Government want the labour. Its not as if The Embassies of the relevant expatriates don't know what going
on, they probably know better than the UAE Government, the press or you or I. They could act via their
Government's at home, but do they? What does that tell you?

The India Ambassador to Bahrain once told me he had more of his nationals in country than the King of
Bahrain and he had not enough staff to deal with them all. Expect its the same in the UAE

Governments have conflicting aims, in the example given the Philippine Government doesn't want its nationals
going to Iraq (DXB is a jump off point) so much so that I have seen Philippine Passports which are valid
worldwide EXCLUDING Iraq. One of my personnel regularly gets pulled over by Philippine Immigration on
departure from Manila (even with a valid UAE work permit) as suspected of going to Iraq

By saying the 2 countries laws conflict doesn't necessarily mean that the 'on arrival' terms & conditions have to
be any less favourable, just comply with the local Labour Law. Yes there have been / probably still are some
that don't do the right thing but if it was rampant then the supply of labour would dry up, it doesn't

[Edited 2014-05-09 04:16:37]
 
MaverickM11
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 23):
The other aspect. If the EU, US, Australia and others suspected that EK was receiving favourable terms that breached bilateral agreements regarding equal treatment of carriers, would they not have acted by now?

Many are trying to get things changed; DL is leading that charge. Boeing, on the other hand, likes things just the way they are, and there you have the reason why nothing has been done yet.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 28):

This is an important fact to prove that EK is just working at more or less the same conditions fuel-wise.

   Fuel is not the arbiter of EK's success. It is the UAE's govt total support--and ownership--of everything aviation, and foreign government's total 'punishment'/incompetence toward aviation, whether it's India, Iran, the UK, etc.. EK, and the other ME3, are essentially running airline 'arbitrage' between countries that don't allow their own airlines to succeed. There's really nothing any US or EU major can take from the ME3 and apply to their own businesses to improve them.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
sierra3tango
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:59 pm

RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 31):

Fuel is not the arbiter of EK's success. It is the UAE's govt total support--and ownership--of everything aviation, and foreign government's total 'punishment'/incompetence toward aviation, whether it's India, Iran, the UK, etc.. EK, and the other ME3, are essentially running airline 'arbitrage' between countries that don't allow their own airlines to succeed. There's really nothing any US or EU major can take from the ME3 and apply to their own businesses to improve them.

Totally correct BUT with the exception that its not the UAE Gov't its the Government of Dubai, The Government of Abu Dhabi is supporting EY -
where will that end? GF have already been there and look where they are now.
 
tommy1808
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 6:41 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 30):

Yes but whose law is it written under? and where is it enforceable? Try enforcing a contract in another
jurisdiction which does not comply with the law of the host country, not possible - its the same the world over.
Had it many times in (non labour) contractual disputes unrelated to the Middle East

You are talking to the wrong guy, as i do have a contract under the law of another country myself. And it is perfectly enforceable. You only can not undercut the minimal standards of the jurisdiction you are in, but you are perfectly free to go beyond those. If you can quote regulations under Philipine or UAE law that do not allow to go beyond minma, please quote. That is the same all over the world, at least in nations governed by law.

A German employer pulling such a stunt more than once or twice will find himself fined and imprisoned rather quickly. Additional to paying for damages. If you do that in an organized way, and if you do that all the time in the HR of a a company, you certainly are, you are looking at up to 10 years in prison. So, that is the civilized world, how about the UAE?

So much for your "convenient theories daily" today.

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 30):
Its not as if The Embassies of the relevant expatriates don't know what going on, they probably know better than the UAE Government, the press or you or I. They could act via their
Government's at home, but do they? What does that tell you?

I know that concept is new to the middle east, but people in civilized nations are free, even free to make mistakes. Even free to fall victim to Shanghaiing. So it only tells me that the Economy is run by smart criminals with government backing.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18418
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 8:51 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 32):
GF have already been there and look where they are now.

Well the management team is all at the other ME3 
I don't take responsibility at all
 
mdavies06
Posts: 547
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:28 pm

RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Fri May 09, 2014 9:58 pm

Why are people outside the UAE repeated questioning their labour practices? That's because it is inhumane. 50C is a very hot temperature and working outdoor all day under this temperature and under long arduous hours is a bit too much isn't it.

Anyway, many people are jealous of the UAE and its govn't backed companies because it can support so many projects in many different fields. I am sure one would agree that without oil and its favourable location (and now I am referring to the country as a whole), EK would not have succeeded the way it has because basic infrastructure in the scale that is needed would not have existed or could not be created at such low cost. Good management alone does not ensure success. I am personally neutral on this issue but would just want to point out a few points here for discussion sake. EK is fortunate in that the UAE business environment is favourable. Airlines in other parts of the world are not so lucky.
 
AyostoLeon
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Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm

RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sat May 10, 2014 12:48 am

Why do people who criticise practices in other countries still invest in and manage building contracts that utilise those practices? Simple, it keeps the shareholders happy. Ask any director of a European company building infrastructue in the GCC states why they don't improve conditions for their employees and the answer will be "We are complying with the law".

Yet the law does not prevent European owned businesses paying better wages or ensuring safe working conditions. But doing that would mean they would have to accept a smaller profit margin. Companies like Siemens, Hochtief and others love investing in the GCC because they don't have to worry about the cumbersome regulations of the EU or Australia, resulting in much greater profit. The newspapers and internet forums may be full of criticism, yet business knows on which side its bread is buttered.

So European companies will continue to compete for the "unlimited" dirham, benefitting from "subsidies" to aviation and other projects. The only business people complaining are those who haven't figured out a way to get their own snouts in the trough.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sat May 10, 2014 1:39 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 24):
BTW have seen Air BP pumps on EK aircraft in DXB

Isn't that a gimmick, BP and Shell are just brand names, owned by a Dubai franchise. There are lot of BP and Shell franchised Gas Stations through out the world, doesn't mean BP/Shell control the prices. Somehow having an international brand name supposed to give legitimacy.

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 26):
Wages / salary on time - there is a Govt system which ensures that all workers get paid on time (it'd take too long
to detail here)

That is normal in most of the countries, even troubled airlines end up paying employees thru legal system. On the other hand non-ME3 employers don't have access to employee's bank accounts to wipe out balances.

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 26):
Employers must pay for a healthcare insurance

Yet another gimmick. Are you suggesting western Airlines employees don't have medical coverage. It is actually one of the major expense, because they cannot discriminate by age. BTW, pregnancy is also one of the major expense covered by employer's insurance. 20-25 year old contract employees don't have many medical issues and pregnancy is discourages. I don't about EK, but His Excellency AAB officially told contract employees are supposed to work, not get pregnant and there are not enough ground jobs to accommodate pregnant women.

Accommodation is provided to keep employees under constant surveillance. No favor there.

In general you are conveniently comparing each aspect with world's worst case scenario to make your case.

Try to compare all aspects of EK/UAE with "any one airline in any one country" you will see rest of the world's workforce is better off. Of course every one may try ME3 option for couple of years in their life.
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Planesmart
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 4:03 am

What short memories we have.

Back in the previous millenium, in a land far, far away, when Emirates started, they had few friends in the aviation world, with service providors charging premiums, or requiring accounts to operate in credit, travel agents deducting higher commissions, travel insurers quoting higher premiums, etc.

And in 2014, we have airports, Governments, service providors and financiers pleading for Emirates business. We have finance syndicates consistently over-subscribed. We have the best managers and advisers lining up for jobs. We have banks offering the finest margins. We have contract positions over-subscribed by a factor of 1000 or more.....

Of course, when fuel prices fall, Emirates will get the biggest reduction, just as when they increase, they get the smallest increase.

Legacy carriers squandered their monopoly positions, relying on Government protection, the loyalty of customers who received poor or indifferent service at premium prices, and preferential aircraft supplies and funding.

Virtually every airline in the World has enjoyed favours, the legacies more then most. Even Chapter 11 and the like is a favour of a kind.

In another thread. the word sentimental came up. Lets champion success.

Ryanair, Easyjet and Emirates have created an aviation industry paradigm shift. Celebrate.

Gives the others something to aim for, not to mimic, but to be better, smarter, more focussed. more direct.....
 
PanHAM
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 5:38 am

Quoting planesmart (Reply 38):
Legacy carriers squandered their monopoly positions, relying on Government protection

Passenger Tax, CO2 tax, really nice government protection These European carriers enjoy.

EK is not government protected? Get real, EK belongs to the owner of the Country who is the government. European carriers have to earn the taxes their employees pay while the ruler can, per decret, set citizens and expats tax free, meaning the carrier itself has to earn less Money to pay the employees.

The tax break for the employees is de facto a tax break for the carrier. Now, who is "government protected" and who's not.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 5:58 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 23):
Who was it that said, if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes an accepted truth?

Goebbels.

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 24):
A few years back the Govt of Dubai was bust and was dependent on Govt owned companies (principally EK)
to prop it up. The local electricity & water company was even stripped of all available cash to prop up the
(then) tottering edifice. Abu Dhabi helped out, but that came at a cost (ie Khalifa Tower, RTA etc). The last
armed conflict between the 2 Emirates was only 60 years ago, they are friends now but they have looong
memories.

Financially the patient might be out of intensive care but its still in the recovery room.

Agreed. There cannot be a subsidy. Dubai must grow to survive for if they ever become #2 in the region, they will be at a permanently lower standard of living. Since the economy of Dubai is dependent on EK growth, they will be supported.

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 24):
if it is so bad why do people come from all over the world to work
in EK / Dubai Airport / DNATA.

That should be remembered. The opportunities in Dubai are better for many than their home opportunities.

The tax breakes for employees help... but that is lost revenue for Dubai. It is a balancing act.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 28):
I'm sure that BA get a better price than EK for fuel in LHR Beacause the volume they purchase it's immensely higher tham EK.

Economy of scale is nothing to worry about, it is a business fact. Due to their HUGE 777 fleet, I'm certain the maintenance and other costs are less due to scale. (125 777s per Wikipedia). They also share economy of scale on the A380 and to a lesser extent the A332.

EK also manages their fleet extremely well. e.g., residual value guarantees on the A345s are allowing that fleet to fade out. The leases on the A343s have allowed that sub-fleet to shrink to 4 (soon to fade away to memory). These will most likely join the 86 other A340s that have been pulled from service.

Lightsaber
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sierra3tango
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):

Well said sir, at last some common sense
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 38):
Ryanair, Easyjet and Emirates have created an aviation industry paradigm shift. Celebrate.

That's a bit of an overstatement. EK is simply a well run hub and spoke carrier in a sea of incompetent carriers in the region. I think the ME3 have done more for, say, the Indian airline industry, than anyone in India, just be injecting a good dose of competition and forcing big decisions.
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Planesmart
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
That's a bit of an overstatement. EK is simply a well run hub and spoke carrier in a sea of incompetent carriers in the region. I think the ME3 have done more for, say, the Indian airline industry, than anyone in India, just be injecting a good dose of competition and forcing big decisions.

Commonsense isn't so common these days. Neither are well run, profitable airlines. If EK is simply well run, why aren't a lot more airlines simply well run? How many simply well run airlines are there in the USA and Europe?
 
ElPistolero
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 43):
How many simply well run airlines are there in the USA and Europe?

Are you suggesting that there are no well-run airlines in the USA and Europe?

Of the top of my head, BA, LH, DL, LX etc all strike me as very well-run airlines, albeit with at least two of them not doing as well as they could because of daft government regulations and NIMBYism throttling their main hubs (LHR and FRA). And then theres your Easyjets and Southwests and whatnots.
 
737tdi
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Sun May 11, 2014 11:19 pm

It is easy to make a profit when you have no expenditures! This is the most ridiculous statements ever made. Profit??? They don't care about profit or cost. They are a government airline and always have been. The numbers don't include cost of maintenance, fuel., labor. Nothing, it is easy to post a record profit when you have no expense. Good freaking grief. Suck it up guys and gals. This is the way to run an airline.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Mon May 12, 2014 12:26 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
I think the ME3 have done more for, say, the Indian airline industry, than anyone in India, just be injecting a good dose of competition and forcing big decisions.

Unfortunately, the GoI hasn't heard the message that they need to stop handicapping the home team. EK has forced reform at Indian airlines, but the 'investment' by EY and reorganization at 9W shows how much further the 'big decisions' need to go. AI still hasn't reformed their maintenance division. IT was exciting to follow, but look how its failure effected the leasing industry and thus other Indian airlines.

What EK did is pick the low hanging fruit at such a fast pace they they we able to grow incredibly quick from 2003 to 2008.

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 44):
albeit with at least two of them not doing as well as they could because of daft government regulations and NIMBYism throttling their main hubs (LHR and FRA).

Agreed both are being horridly throttled at their hubs. As global standards in fragmentation and frequency keep increasing, they need to keep pace for premium hubbing passengers.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 45):
They don't care about profit or cost.

Huh? Read their annual report. EK is a numbers run corporation that constantly 'tweaks' their product and costs to balance between growth and profit. EK subsidizes Dubai, *not* the other way around. Have you looked into EK's leasing and maintenance practices on how they contain costs? They must be doing something right as they are a highly desired customer for the leasing companies...

Lightsaber
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MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Mon May 12, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting planesmart (Reply 43):
If EK is simply well run, why aren't a lot more airlines simply well run?

Good question--ask AZ, IR, KU, AI, PK, TG, SV, IY, MS, SD...and dozens of others.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Mon May 12, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
IR,

That's a pretty unique case, and to be fair they are VERY well run considering the limitations placed on them. They must have some wizards working in their maintenance department!

KU and GF, in particular, are interesting cases. MQ should also [historically] have performed much better than they have.
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Emirates Posts Profit Yet Again, Up By 43%

Mon May 12, 2014 3:55 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 45):

I take it that you have actually read the Annual Report for 2013-2014. If so, you will have seen the following figures.

AED millions (The exchange rate of the Dirham to the US Dollar is fixed at 3.67.)
Jet Fuel30,685
Employee Costs10,230
Aircraft Operating Leases6,548
Depreciation & Amortisation6,421
Sales and Marketing5,421
Handling4.648
Inflight Catering3,529
Overflying2,386
Maintenace2,146
Office Accommodation & IT costs1,878
Landing & Parking1,568
Cost of sale of Goods1,190
Corporate Overheads1,725
Total Operating Costs78,376


As you say, they have no expenses...
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