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Gonzalo
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Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 3:21 am

Less than one month before the initial day of the next Fifa World Cup in Brazil, the fears of a chaotic state of affairs in several of the major airports of the country are increasing.
Several airports in some of the cities assigned to the World Cup are not finished and there are growing fears of some of this airports not being ready to coup with the human avalanche associated with the World Cup.
The Chilean TV networks are warning the people who have travel plans to expect several hours of delays, long lines in the customs and the chance of not being able to arrive on time to the different stadiums.
The Government of Chile launched a website to help with some useful advices and information about how to deal with the problems expected in Brazil.
As a preview, according to brazilian network OGlobo, today a heavy rain caused the temporary closure of the major airports in Sao Paulo, causing a disruption in the already congested and crowded terminals, and that was without the massive affluence of people expected for the World Cup.

Would be nice if some of our Brazilian members can give us their first hand feeling about this, and what kind of problems could the Brazilian air system face with the higher number of people flying next month.

Rgds.
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777Jet
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 3:48 am

It would be more of a surprise IMO if there was not chaos in at least some airports, especially if there are delays for whatever reasons...
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C010T3
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 3:56 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
heavy rain

Plus hail!

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Would be nice if some of our Brazilian members can give us their first hand feeling about this, and what kind of problems could the Brazilian air system face with the higher number of people flying next month.

I don't have many concerns actually. Many terminals are unfinished, but I believe it will only impact passengers' comfort, not the ability to go from A to B within schedule.
One problem that might arise is airport closure due to morning fog. It's something common in São Paulo and in the South. It's less frequent, but also possible in Rio de Janeiro and Belo Horizonte.
 
rg787
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 4:56 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 2):
I don't have many concerns actually. Many terminals are unfinished, but I believe it will only impact passengers' comfort, not the ability to go from A to B within schedule.

Agreed. There was no construction of runways in airports for the world cup, so I think the capacity in this matter is ok. About lines for customs etc, well, if there weren't lines it wasn't Brazil. It is probably going to get crowded sometimes but everything is going to be ok, IMHO.
 
VC10er
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 11:40 am

When is the new GRU terminal planned to be operational? And I can't find images of the real thing, only sleek CAD renderings.

Although I live part time in Rio, I am staying in NYC during the WC. In any situation - all of Brazil will be chaos - not just the airports! Viva Brazil  
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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prchan
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 2:04 pm

It has been open for a week now. You can find some pictures on this link: http://exame.abril.com.br/brasil/not...terminal-do-aeroporto-de-guarulhos

LH, LX and TP are the initial operators of it.
 
winGl3t
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 2:19 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):
When is the new GRU terminal planned to be operational?

It is operating since last Sunday, May 11th, handling Lufthansa's, Swiss' and TAP's flights.
 
shankly
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 2:32 pm

I do seem to remember the same prophets of doom before SA in 2010 and the London Olympics....but in the end it all worked because most of the locals disappeared off the infrastructure for a while.
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varigb707
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 6:49 pm

When I do go to Brazil, I always choose dates that do not coincide with any major holidays, so I won't have to be stressed out upon arrival.
My lucky is i can fly MIA/BSB or ATL/BSB. I totally dislike going through GRU or GIG.
Anyway, good luck and expect the unexpected, when traveling to Brazil.
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
varigb707
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting shankly (Reply 7):
.but in the end it all worked because most of the locals disappeared off the infrastructure for a while.

By that yo mean the poor. FIFA wanted to to the same in BRazil., but met some resistance from the government, after all those "locals" are the majority or voters who'll probably re-elect this current party, provided Brazil wins the Cup.
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
airbazar
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 7:07 pm

All of this seems like an over reaction. As in previous events, WC and Olympics, there is no significant increase of passengers. So if Brazilian airports were able to cope with passengers last Summer, there's no reason why they can't do it this Summer.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 9:16 pm

Honestly, if you ever do decide to travel to one of these major world sporting events (FIFA, Olympics, etc.) and you are surprised to find chaos, then you need to have your head examined.
-Doc Lightning-

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lucaspithan
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Mon May 19, 2014 11:50 pm

I don't think this chaos will happen. Yes, the brazilian airports are not five stars airports but it has improved a lot in the last five years (not enough as we would like). The only big problem I can see is the fog in the southern capitals like Curitiba and Porto Alegre. If you are travelling to those cities choose a late flight.

Others events like carnival in Rio brings more people to GIG than the World Cup will. The T3 in GRU is also operating and I think the bad news about the country are going to the same way as happened in South Africa and in the London riots episode.

Yes, there will be problems. Yes, the same of all big events.

[Edited 2014-05-19 16:51:09]

[Edited 2014-05-19 16:51:31]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 2:01 am

Was there any runway increase at GRU to go with the new GRU terminal?

Is GRU allowing in A380s yet? Last I read the declared the runway too narrow (despite other airports doing fine with 150' wide runways and the A380...).

Warning, too many adverts on the links I found:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...ights-at-so-paulo-airport/5576871/

Quoting prchan (Reply 5):

It has been open for a week now. You can find some pictures on this link:

Talk about just in time! Seriously, that didn't look like a terminal ready to operate. It looked like a terminal that was almost ready for 'dry run trials.' Most large building fail their dry run. e.g., escalators, elevators, lighting, and plumbing often need 'tweaks' to run properly. It is a lovely building, but about 3 months behind the schedule it needed to be opened on.  
Quoting airbazar (Reply 10):
All of this seems like an over reaction. As in previous events, WC and Olympics, there is no significant increase of passengers.

Because the locals chose to 'stay home' and a rise in infrastructure usually accompanies the even (e.g., this new GRU terminal).

Quoting shankly (Reply 7):

I do seem to remember the same prophets of doom before SA in 2010 and the London Olympics..

I remember more the Greek Olympics that worked due to international pressure to accelerate construction. Brazil seems to have resisted that international pressure.

The London Olympics the press was warning it would be another budget Olympics. I didn't hear prophecies of doom in the press I was reading.

The proof will be in how they pull it off. I wish them luck.


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par13del
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 2:18 am

My question, how are the road links to nearby countries, yes there is a lot of focus on international arrivals including from other countries in the region, but I would think with such a major event, a number may also be driving into and around the country to attend some of the events, and yes I know the distances are not close, just wondering on the road infrastructure.
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Rafabozzolla
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 3:01 am

The airports are bad, yeah. But not chaotic. The real problems IMHO are the transport links from airports to downtown and, crucially, from downtown to stadiums.

But then again, an early winter break for schools has been declared so it should be fine(ish)...
 
SCL767
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 3:44 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):

LATAM will add more than 300 international flights into Brasil for the World Cup. TAM has also modified 31% of its domestic operations from 10 June to 15 July 2014; thus creating more than 750 new flights within Brasil for the World Cup: LAN and TAM Announce New Flights in Preparation for the World’s Greatest Soccer Tournament

LATAM will implement a series of initiatives in order to ensure that the company is operating efficiently during the World Club and also to provide pax with a less hectic travel experience: TAM Airlines anuncia conjunto de acciones especiales para el evento mundial de fútbol
 
airbazar
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 10:51 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):

Because the locals chose to 'stay home' and a rise in infrastructure usually accompanies the even (e.g., this new GRU terminal).

The main reason why events like the World Cup and Olympics don't generate a huge spike in travelers is because all other tourists not interested in the event stay home. The other reason is because one of the biggest limiting factors is hotel beds, not airplane seats. In Brazil, this problem is even worse than in other countries due to safety concerns outside of the major brand hotels. Brazil has a huge shortage of hotel beds that meet the quality and safety standards of most foreign visitors. In a WC however, we do have some day charters for single games but those tend to operate outside typical scheduled flights, often arriving in the middle of the day and departing late at night after the game.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 2:36 pm

Quoting varigb707 (Reply 9):
By that yo mean the poor

No not really - it was school holiday time here in London so many who didn't want to be around for the Olympics took their holidays and left town for a week or two relieving pressure on public transport.

Also commentators observed that non-Olympic in bound airline traffic dropped as well as people tried to avoid the 'rush' expected to be associated with the games - and I expect similar though processes might be linked to travelling to Brazil during the world cup - though am not sure with Brazil being south of the equator whether this would normally be a busy time of year for in bound tourists.
 
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Gonzalo
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 15):
The real problems IMHO are the transport links from airports to downtown and, crucially, from downtown to stadiums.

Agreed, and let's see how bad or big are the announced demonstrations against the World Cup. There are threats from certain groups that will take the streets under control and block the logistics of the event in all the possible ways, and that for sure will include cutting major highways ala Argentinian "piqueteros". In my very personal opinion, this WC will be much more enjoyable watching my big HD screen, compared to a long trip to a hot, humid, and crowded chaos in Brazil.

Rgds.
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incitatus
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 5:10 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):
When is the new GRU terminal planned to be operational? And I can't find images of the real thing, only sleek CAD renderings.

I used terminal 3 last week. The outside of the terminal is so boring, but inside it looks beautiful. By far the best-looking airport terminal in Latin America. I have yet to see pictures on the web that do justice to how nice the place is. They should pluck T1 and T2 off the ground and move them to Ribeirao Preto! Finally SP has a real airport.
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ZecoulsFAB
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 10:44 pm

Brazil is going through a period of severe turbulence. This year we’ll run presidential elections and after 12 years of Labor Party ruling the country Brazil is in economic and moral ruin. The Brazilian people, who were internationally recognized for his joy and hospitality, are now bitter and disillusioned.
Regarding the World Cup, even with 7 years of anticipation, none of the promised works for stadiums, airports, and especially those of urban mobility, are ready as promised. And the costs outweighed by far the whole amount of money that was spent in the last three World Cups for Soccer added together! A detail, it is all public money!
In the airports case, much has been made, but much remains to be done. Visitors will find some terminals under construction or partially blocked. But I believe it will not impact the passenger’s transit. We must remember FIFA’s president who said to not come to Brazil hoping to find the German standard of efficiency.
I think private jets will face difficulties to find space to park. To the final game in Rio de Janeiro even Brazilian Air Force bases are planned to give in their space!
There will be school vacations and holydays in the cities that will hold games. So the traffic is supposed to not be jammed, but public transportation is not efficient.
The main fear is the threat of strikes in many critical sectors of society and especially those related to the World Cup. Airline and airport staffs, police and security forces, customs, bus drivers and other professional categories have promised strikes during the event. We also have risks of riots and protests of all kinds everywhere. If this really happens (I hope not) it will be real chaos.
This is my first post on airliners.net. Wish I had better words, but unfortunately, the whole country is living under gray expectations this time.
 
koruman
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Tue May 20, 2014 10:58 pm

I went to the 2010 edition in South Africa.

The early stages actually went pretty well. But it all went wrong at the semi-final stage, when the pilots of FIFA bigwigs refused to park their aircraft where they were directed to, with the consequence that operations were suspended and passengers flying in on matchday who had tickets worth anything from $200 to $900 could not land.

It doesn't really matter what condition the airport is in, if VIPs behave that way the airports can't function.
 
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andrefranca
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Wed May 21, 2014 1:05 am

Quoting ZecoulsFAB (Reply 21):

Applause! !! I make of your words mine.
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
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Gonzalo
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Wed May 21, 2014 3:36 am

Quoting ZecoulsFAB (Reply 21):
This is my first post on airliners.net. Wish I had better words, but unfortunately, the whole country is living under gray expectations this time.

Welcome to the A.net community !! And many thanks for your first hand impression about the current situation in Brazil.
I was in Brazil for the last time in the 90's, so probably many many things have changed dramatically, I really hope the beautiful country and its marvelous people find the way to better times in a peaceful manner.

Best Regards.

G.
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jfidler
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Wed May 21, 2014 4:06 am

I will be visiting during the WC and I'm intentionally transferring at BSB instead of GRU or GIG. My theory is that since BSB sees a lot less flight traffic, then there are fewer chances of issues arising. I could be wrong of course -- I guess I'll find out next month.
 
TYCOON
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Wed May 21, 2014 8:53 am

I am not sure if the chaos is arising from Brazilian airports (actually in my view just GRU) or TAM. TAM's operations are pure chaos, that is for sure... when compared to either Azul or Gol.
A few weeks ago, I flew all three carriers (Gol and TAM in/out of GRU). Flying with Gol was easy (although the terminals were very crowded), on time and not one hiccup. I also enjoyed their new B737-800s with additional legroom and updated interiors.
TAM on the other hand: WOW!! I flew from Vitoria to GRU (about 1h20 min flight). Upon arriving at GRU, it took us literally about the same time (over one hour!) to taxi from the runway to a remote parking stand. I've never seen anything like it... and the pilot never once got on the intercom to inform the passengers what was causing the delay. Arriving at the remote stand, we then had to wait for personnel, including the stairway, to be brought to the aircraft, to board a bus to the terminal.
They announced which belt luggage was to be delivered at on the aircraft before leaving which was confirmed by the screens in baggage claim. But nothing.... arriving after our flights were ones from Brasilia, Curitiba, Galeao and Porto Alegre all of which were receiving their luggage while we waited for ours... I went up to the TAM baggage desk to confirm the belt and they confirmed that it was indeed the one on the screen. I politely pointed out that all other flights arriving after ours were receiving their luggage. They just shrugged their shoulders. I walked over to look at the other luggage belts, and low and behold, on one belt two over from the Vitoria belt, there is my luggage !!! It took over two hours from landing to exit the airport - and this on a domestic flight!!!
Complete chaos, YES! GRU - I don't think so given no problem with Gol flights... Chaos at TAM? Definitely.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Wed May 21, 2014 9:12 am

Quoting ZecoulsFAB (Reply 21):
Regarding the World Cup, even with 7 years of anticipation, none of the promised works for stadiums, airports, and especially those of urban mobility, are ready as promised. And the costs outweighed by far the whole amount of money that was spent in the last three World Cups for Soccer added together!

Big sports infrastructure spending is a lot like cathedrals of centuries past. Build it and you will attain salvation/jobs/growth/recognition/eternal life! The reality, however, is that everyone except the owners, gets totally screwed, every single time, and has nothing to show for it except for a decrepit white elephant and huge debts.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
aaexp
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Wed May 21, 2014 5:53 pm

The good news is that Brazil is the country of the future.....the bad news is that it will always be..........
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Thu May 22, 2014 3:10 pm

Quoting ZecoulsFAB (Reply 21):
Brazil is going through a period of severe turbulence. This year we’ll run presidential elections and after 12 years of Labor Party ruling the country Brazil is in economic and moral ruin. The Brazilian people, who were internationally recognized for his joy and hospitality, are now bitter and disillusioned.

Part of the issue is that Brazil is crossing through economic thresholds that generally create chaos. This is due to the poor having a little more certainty and leisure time which allows them to see how bad their situation really is.

Some is the decline in GNP per capita which is *never* a good feeling. Normally such perturbations create unrest that result in a more fair system. Hopefully that is the case for Brazil.

It is a question of if the corruption can be addressed. If so, Brazil has a bright future.

Quoting ZecoulsFAB (Reply 21):
This is my first post on airliners.net.

Welcome! A most excellent and informative first post.

Lightsaber
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TYCOON
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Thu May 22, 2014 4:30 pm

As I've said a number of times to friends/colleagues etc, the Brazilian situation fits perfectly in the theory of the revolution of rising expectations. Revolutions (or social upheaval as in this case) rarely happen on an empty stomach... It is when people see an improvement in their situation (in Brazil, rising middle class, relatively low unemployment, increased ease of access to credit, etc...) that allow people the "leisure" to demand more.
I am confident in Brazil's future... they will pull through ok.
Now, if they could just bring their infrastructure up to date!!!
China is in my view more of a concern....
 
richierich
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Thu May 22, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting ZecoulsFAB (Reply 21):
This is my first post on airliners.net. Wish I had better words, but unfortunately, the whole country is living under gray expectations this time.

A WC victory would lift people's spirits, at least temporarily!

When a country takes on an international event as large as the World Cup or the Olympics - of which Brazil has both, of course - there are bound to be problems. For all of the money and improvements these events help spur, they also put the country in the international spotlight. The airports are one of the most visible areas for these improvements, and the supposed benefits should be felt for decades.

I think the most frequent comparison I see between Brazil/Rio's WC/Olympics is that of the Athens games in 2004. Lots of delays on construction, venues not fully completed on time, doubt about the ability of the host to pull it off. And surely there were problems...but to the average viewer, the games went off quite smoothly considering the issues that were highlighted ahead of time. By far the biggest disruption was to the local population who had to deal with the immense inconveniences associated with the construction (especially in the months leading to the games) and the massive influx of people during the event itself. Ditto Sochi this past February. Of course, there is always the omnipresent threat of political demonstrations and terrorism too, although everybody hopes neither of these will be a problem, of course.

Maybe I am being overly optimistic, but I think Brazil's showcase of football will be a success despite the challenges. In the long run, I hope Brazil's massive infrastructure upgrades pay off (even if some are not in time for either event) and the Brazilian people can reflect proudly on their unique time as hosts of the two biggest sporting events barely two years apart!
None shall pass!!!!
 
incitatus
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RE: Growing Fears Of Chaos At Brazilian Airports

Fri May 23, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting richierich (Reply 31):
I think the most frequent comparison I see between Brazil/Rio's WC/Olympics is that of the Athens games in 2004.

I think Athens had superior preparation. The World Cup in Brazil is like the Commonwealth Games in India in 2010. Really not ready.
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