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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 84):
Because of EWR slots, UA has to schedule flights or lose the slots. Non-widebody jets cause far less congestion than widebodies do because of the required increased ATC separation behind widebodies. Running the smaller planes (anything smaller than a 752) will allow the airport to handle the most amount of flights with the least amount of airspace. If they weren't flying to SFO, they'd be flying somewhere else.

AA is flying 13x daily on Airbuses with 70 fewer seats than the 739s UA flies from EWR to LAX or SFO. UA's EWR-LAX/SFO frequencies are not just about VX.
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commavia
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 8:14 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 99):
BOS-SFO-HKG or BOS-SFO-HND ?

  

BOS-SFO-Asia, as well as SFO-BOS-Europe, among other less common domestic connections at both ends.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 97):
B6 also has an extensive FLL-Caribbean network so that's *nearly* a wash (obviously not extensive as MIA)

If you said NK you'd actually be closer to being right. B6 serves just 9 Carribbean destinations from FLL

AUA
CUN (technically Mexico)
KIN
NAS
PAP
POS
PUJ
SJU
SDQ


Here's 9 destinations AA does from MIA and not served by B6 at FLL: CUR BGI ANU GND MHH PLS GGT POP FDF . There's plenty more.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 8:40 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 96):

Ok lets look at the facts which are AA has always been stronger than UA in BOS and has had more FF in the BOS area than UA. US has also been stronger than UA at BOS when US was a part of Star UA did not depend on US to handle traffic for them into BOS. Now even though both of these airlines were stronger alone in BOS neither of them are on the BOS-SFO route, because there is more to this route than just O&D traffic. While UA has a lot of O&D traffic on this route there is also a lot of passengers who make international connection on UA at SFO. AA/US does not offer international flights on their own metal out of SFO only code share and JV. (With AA now focusing on building and strengthening their own international flights to Asia I believe AA would probably rather route passengers to DFW, or LAX and if/when LAX becomes their Pacific Gateway then on to Asia) while UA already does this from SFO plus UA offers a lot of domestic connections as well at SFO.

Here is the other threat thing not mentioned in the discussion. After the merger, OW will obviously be stronger in BOS than Star Alliance, as I suspect a lot of the Asia passengers that UA may take were US frequent fliers, who are now going to be loyal to AA and OW. UA doesn't have the FF base in BOS of AA/US and even DL. Where this also affects UA would be the fact that not only can AA route passengers through its own hubs in the US (DFW and LAX noteably), JL also serves NRT from BOS, which is arguably better suited for Asian connections than SFO. JL is also part of OW.

AA serving SFO will eat into some of the O and D passengers that other carriers currently serve. US leaving star and joining OW as part of the AA merger, will contribute to this, but also give FF's incentive for other service to Asia. Between AA providing traffic over LAX, DFW, and ORD, along with JL serving NRT, plus you can argue about QR to DOH, I don't see how UA will be able to sustain 8X on the route especially with B6 and VX serving the route themselves, and catering exclusively to O and D on both ends for the most part. Then again, Doug Parker may choose not to even launch the service altogether, in which case all bets are off.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 100):
AA is flying 13x daily on Airbuses with 70 fewer seats than the 739s UA flies from EWR to LAX or SFO. UA's EWR-LAX/SFO frequencies are not just about VX.

I wasn't referring to the competition with VX or anyone else on EWR-SFO....my comment was addressing a previous poster's suggestion that if UA converted some of the 13 daily EWR-SFO flights to widebodies, they could reduce the number of flights into EWR and reduce congestion.

With the risk of losing unused slots, whether UA flies 13 dailies to SFO or 13 daily RJs to LGA, the EWR congestion will be the same. If some of the 13 flights were upgraded to widebodies, airspace congestion would increase.
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 104):
If some of the 13 flights were upgraded to widebodies, airspace congestion would increase.

Right, and the 739 has the best CASM in the UA. The 753 might be close, or even beat the 739, but those are better suited for the West Coast-Hawaii flights.
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jetblue1965
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 9:19 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 103):
I don't see how UA will be able to sustain 8X on the route especially with B6 and VX serving the route themselves, and catering exclusively to O and D on both ends for the most part.

This sounds awfully lot like the doom-and-gloom predicted for LH's MUC-CLT service :

ABC-XYZ flight of DD airline will fail to sustain current service because it's entirely livelihood depends on US FF base, which is experiencing mass exodus to oneworld

on another note, JL's NRT-BOS is also poorly timed for connections eastbound because it leaves NRT too early, so very few cities can connect to it (e.g. if you're leaving HKG, you need to take the CX 1am red-eye, land at NRT at 6am, then wait 5hrs for the connection .... I'd much prefer doing HKG-CX-ORD-AA-BOS at a sane hour any day of the week)
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Tue May 20, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 105):
Right, and the 739 has the best CASM in the UA. The 753 might be close, or even beat the 739

The 752/753 are in a different (higher) weight class than any 737 model and separation behind them is increased as well.

The 739/A321 are the best aircraft to maximize passenger capacity and airspace efficiency. It's one of the positive results of UA swapping out their old 752s for the 739s in addition to the fuel saving.

To optimize the EWR delay situation, UA could replace the domestic 757s with a 738/9 and move the 757s down the road to IAD where airport/airspace congestion is a non-issue. Small reduction in total seats but huge impact in airport capacity.

[Edited 2014-05-20 14:53:23]
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jetbluefan1
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 102):
AUA
CUN (technically Mexico)
KIN
NAS
PAP
POS
PUJ
SJU
SDQ

Don't forget MBJ! (Just launched earlier this month.) And B6 doesn't fly FLL-AUA (but they do serve AUA from MCO).

And while we're at it, B6 routinely routes passengers over FLL who are going to LIM, BOG, MDE, and SJO.

Granted, it's not nearly as extensive as AA's MIA-Caribbean/Latin America flying, but B6's BOS-FLL flights certainly compete with a large proportion of AA's BOS-MIA flights.

[Edited 2014-05-20 17:53:12]
 
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compensateme
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 11):
I was expecting MSP-RST to disappear with the CR2 drawdown. The writing is on the wall now. DL may pull out of RST entirely. 1x to DTW has little chance of surviving. It's been done before and didn't work.

Basically DL is ceding RST to AA.

At DTW, DL's been aggressively re-deploying capacity from smaller, commuting stations into its other hubs; MSP's benefited tremendously from this, receiving additional capacity into places like FNT and 150-seat mainline service into places like ALB. Until the early 2000s, small, commuting service was the heart & soul of large hubs. But that's no longer the case as airlines now seek to better flow capacity, hopefully with increased local traffic. NW itself employed the same strategy -- DL's just doing it on a grander scale.

I'm not surprised it's happening at MSP, I'm just surprised at how long it took to do so. Yes, NW unsuccessfully attempted DTW-RST/DLH/etc. -- but these were capacity increases within its network. In contrast, when NW added MSP-BUF/ALB/PVD/etc., it removed capacity from DTW.

RST will remain an integral piece to DL's network, but traffic will be flowed differently than previously.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 69):

Per A.net, AA is going to grow in ORD, CLT, MIA, DFW, LAX, and BOS.

Incredible!


Yes, the merger was all about adding capacity and bringing lower fares to consumers!!!

Per A.net, every single flight prints money - nothing's unprofitable.* It's all about the cargo. PIT, CVG, STL -all printed. It's just one giant conspiracy.

*Unless it's at DTW. I hear DTW-GRU is losing money hand over fist, but the Obama Administration forces DL to operate it in exchange for the bailout it gave to GM.

(for those who didn't know so... this was sarcasm).
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 106):

This sounds awfully lot like the doom-and-gloom predicted for LH's MUC-CLT service :

ABC-XYZ flight of DD airline will fail to sustain current service because it's entirely livelihood depends on US FF base, which is experiencing mass exodus to oneworld

Apples to Oranges. In one case you are talking about a city where most of the feed was alliance partners and has no where near the O and D as most gateway cities, and a route that may have to rely on a contact to succeed. The better flight to compare MUC-CLT to would be the AA RDU-LHR flight.

I have never suggested that UA is going to suspend BOS-SFO. They would be stupid to. What I suggested was that with USAirways leaving Star, given the lack of FF flyers in BOS among other places, that I question whether this market can sustain 8X daily on UA. I personally feel some of the AC used on this route would be better off being used in ORD or IAH where more mainline service is desperately needed. Given the presence of VX and B6 on the route as well, most of the traffic is going to come from the SFO end. I don't know which end generates more of the O and D on this city pair.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 106):
on another note, JL's NRT-BOS is also poorly timed for connections eastbound because it leaves NRT too early, so very few cities can connect to it (e.g. if you're leaving HKG, you need to take the CX 1am red-eye, land at NRT at 6am, then wait 5hrs for the connection .... I'd much prefer doing HKG-CX-ORD-AA-BOS at a sane hour any day of the week)

Two things. OW can route the asian connections just about anywhere from BOS. Given the US presence in OneWorld now, and the size of the FF bases in BOS, I think OW is going to get more Asian business from BOS than Star. I suggested NRT, but they dont have to go over NRT. I do find it strange though that a flight that would leave at 11AM would be ill timed for connections, but I also admit that the interasian market is not my area of expertise.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 110):

All airlines have mastered the best NRT scissor hub is 3-6pm for both directions ... even KE copied the same time slots at ICN

just calculate the time it takes for places to reach NRT (SIN-NRT is 6+hrs plus time zone) then you'll realize 11am is very O&D timed
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 5:17 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):

It's easy to see how the morning MSP flight goes away with the drawdown of 50-seaters; just upgauge DTW. I'm not convinced that 3 daily flights (2 to DTW, 1 to ATL) ultimately would not work. Certainly, a market like FNT has successfully transitioned away from dependence on the hub in whose shadow it sits.

When you step back and see the big picture, you realize the new schedule is pretty ridiculous. Not only is DL actually adding capacity, but it's doing so while splitting up the connecting flows. That makes absolutely no sense. Demand doesn't just follow supply. It's fun to make some dummy bookings. Connections are now very limited, particularly to anything outside the Eastern Time Zone, and the overall flight selection is meager compared to AA. The only advantage to the new schedule is that some smaller markets in the east now see one-stop service if the times match. But that's like asking for a miracle to happen. The new flights don't even connect well with international flights. It's a recipe for failure as it stands. Mayo isn't a savior.

The chance of DTW-RST surviving is slim to none. None of the similar Midwest markets like FSD, SUX, DLH, or FAR currently has DTW service. It's a change that look like a future "we tried, but it didn't work". I'd say ATL-RST itself might work out, but they won't keep a station for one flight. The FNT metro area is over double the size of RST and can pull from the north end of the DTW metro. It's not a good comparison.

[Edited 2014-05-20 22:19:45]
 
Cubsrule
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 12:27 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 112):
The FNT metro area is over double the size of RST and can pull from the north end of the DTW metro. It's not a good comparison.

Of course, RST is a whole lot more affluent (it hovers around the bottom of the top 10 in per-capita GDP depending on the year).

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 112):
Not only is DL actually adding capacity, but it's doing so while splitting up the connecting flows. That makes absolutely no sense.

There are some passengers for which ATL and DTW are better hubs, no?
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commavia
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 12:40 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 110):
Apples to Oranges. In one case you are talking about a city where most of the feed was alliance partners and has no where near the O and D as most gateway cities, and a route that may have to rely on a contact to succeed. The better flight to compare MUC-CLT to would be the AA RDU-LHR flight.

Not to mention - of course - that we still don't actually know how MUC-CLT will end up.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 111):
All airlines have mastered the best NRT scissor hub is 3-6pm for both directions

Well if by "all airlines," you mean Pan Am/United and Northwest/Delta, then yes. But when it comes to Japan's carriers - JAL and ANA - they have always had longhaul hubs at NRT that were far more diffused and far less concentrated just in the afternoon-evening window traditionally utilized by the U.S. 5th freedom carriers. JAL and ANA have for years operated just about all of their eastbound NRT-U.S. departures outside the West Coast in the 1100-1300 window, not just for O&D but also to handle morning connections coming in from domestic Japan (NGO, FUK, ITM, CTS, etc.), northeast Asia (ICN) and redeyes from "deeper" in Asia (SIN, KUL, BKK, etc.). Westbound, JAL and ANA are more concentrated in the afternoon/evening like the U.S. carriers.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 111):
even KE copied the same time slots at ICN

Sort of. Korean does operate many flights between ICN and the U.S., and with 2-way connections to/from Asia, in the afternoon/evening, but if you look at Korean's schedule, they, too, schedule just about all of their non-West Coast ICN-U.S. departures (ATL, DFW, IAH, ORD, IAD, etc.) in the same morning window (in some cases as early as around 0900) as JAL/ANA from NRT.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 12:43 pm

The issue with a market like RST and even more so TOL is its proximity to a large hub. FNT is similar but has some other dynamics at play too from a competitive standpoint. The market is highly price sensititve, in the sense that passengers will compare RST versus MSP and have a high disposition to drive to the market with the better fares. The exception are those that will pay more for the convenience of RST, do not have ground transporation options to get to MSP, or in the case of RST visiting Mayo clinic.

The current situation is that even if they want to fly into RST, by the time you add in the connecting and flight time for MSP-RST segment it really amounts in minimal time savings.

For many years markets like RST, TOL, and FNT were a loophole where some more competitive fares could be found and/or used by FF junkies to add on segment/mileage runs. (I was guilty of this one year where I needed a few extra segments to make Platinum). NW tolerated it, but DL has a different approach.

Here are example mid-week routndtrip fares in late June to LAX:

AA RST-ORD-LAX: $573 - $633
DL MSP-LAX: $448 - $688
DL RST-MSP-LAX: $752 - $878

DL's pricing strategy is generally to let the other airlines offer the lower fares and fill-up there flights on lower prices, and then capture the last minute higher fares. For the prices that DL is currently asking for RST-MSP-LAX, a lot of people are going to just drive to MSP for the nonstop and also save $120-$300+
 
Cubsrule
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 1:02 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 115):
The current situation is that even if they want to fly into RST, by the time you add in the connecting and flight time for MSP-RST segment it really amounts in minimal time savings.

True, presuming that the city from which you are coming has decently frequent service to MSP. But for a lot of markets--even some fairly large ones--that's not true, whereas it's true at DTW or ATL. So, if the single late afternoon departure on FLL-MSP isn't convenient for you, the choice isn't really what you are presenting but rather FLL-ATL-MSP-RST versus FLL-ATL-MSP in the current schedule, but in the new schedule it might well be FLL-ATL/DTW-RST versus FLL-ATL/DTW-MSP. That's a different question.

Of course, this isn't true for places like LAX, but DL doesn't need to be all things to all passengers in a place like RST (and to the west coast, AA requires backtracking too).
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N757ST
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 108):

No aua-fll route. Watch for the fll- Carib stuff to get much much larger in the next few years. Fll will become a quasi connecting hub.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 112):
The chance of DTW-RST surviving is slim to none.

The CEO of Mayo Clinic said their biggest obstacle to progress is RST. It's reasonable to think that DL may be responding to Mayo prodding (and maybe some cash) in fiddling with the RST schedules.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 2:28 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 114):

Well if by "all airlines," you mean Pan Am/United and Northwest/Delta, then yes. But when it comes to Japan's carriers - JAL and ANA - they have always had longhaul hubs at NRT that were far more diffused and far less concentrated just in the afternoon-evening window traditionally utilized by the U.S. 5th freedom carriers. JAL and ANA have for years operated just about all of their eastbound NRT-U.S. departures outside the West Coast in the 1100-1300 window, not just for O&D but also to handle morning connections coming in from domestic Japan (NGO, FUK, ITM, CTS, etc.), northeast Asia (ICN) and redeyes from "deeper" in Asia (SIN, KUL, BKK, etc.). Westbound, JAL and ANA are more concentrated in the afternoon/evening like the U.S. carriers.

Previously, yes, but since Japan has been a stagnating market they're finally realizing they need better connections. NH has launched a second daily for both JFK and ORD, both timed for the afternoon bank.

Those "deep asia" redeyes are especially painful in economy. You'll land at NRT at 6-7am, then wait till 11am before the connection leaves. In October i'll be doing a SIN-ICN-JFK with first leg red-eye but luckily only 2:15 transit at Incheon so it's not too bad.
 
jayunited
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 2:39 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 103):
Here is the other threat thing not mentioned in the discussion. After the merger, OW will obviously be stronger in BOS than Star Alliance, as I suspect a lot of the Asia passengers that UA may take were US frequent fliers, who are now going to be loyal to AA and OW. UA doesn't have the FF base in BOS of AA/US and even DL. Where this also affects UA would be the fact that not only can AA route passengers through its own hubs in the US (DFW and LAX noteably), JL also serves NRT from BOS, which is arguably better suited for Asian connections than SFO. JL is also part of OW.

What does OW and Start have to do with this? Even when US was a part of Star more than 90% of UA's traffic into BOS was terminating traffic there were very few connections to other domestic flights or international flights on other airlines. For UA BOS was and still is an almost exclusive O&D station with very few connections to other airlines. Which is way US's departure has had very little effect on UA in the BOS market however we have seen UA making adjustments in the PHL, CLT and PHX markets because UA did depend on US a lot for service in those markets.

As far as Asia UA is still expanding in Asia and UA's Asia flights have not seen a negative impact by US's departure reason being (and this has been discussed on A.netters many many times) most US customers did not fly UA to Asia. So this notion that now AA is in a better position to offer connections to Asia than UA is simply not true although I will agree that JL's BOS-NRT nonstop beats a connecting flight any day the facts once again are all 3 legacies are starting to offer more nonstop to points throughout Asia because customer want to bypass NRT instead of connecting at NRT. There is more to Asia than NRT and UA's SFO hub is still the best Pacific Gateway in terms of location and number of nonstop flights offered by a U.S. carrier on their own metal.

Regardless of how you try to frame your point of view the facts do not support it. UA is still the top airline at SFO and UA still a decent amount of traffic at BOS although not as strong as AA/US. And while the new AA will probably start flying this route their entrance into this market poses no significant threat to UA because while you want to just focus on BOS and AA/US only on the opposite end of that spectrum is SFO and UA. BOS is a focus city at best for AA while SFO is a hub for UA and on top of that it is one of UA's most profitable hubs. I have already agreed that AA and US are both stronger in BOS than UA and have been for many years but despite your attempt to paint UA as the weak airline in BOS the facts are UA is still the only airline on this route out of the three airlines mention (AA, US UA).
 
steex
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 2:51 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 120):
What does OW and Start have to do with this?

The idea is not that US was providing connections at BOS, but rather that part of that O&D UA has been capturing at BOS has been US frequent flyers who chose to fly UA on routes like BOS-SFO because it allowed them to utilize Star Alliance benefits and earn US miles. The theory is that the US/AA merger means those US flyers are now in OW instead of Star, and would now look to utilize OW partners instead of a Star members.
 
EricR
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 3:18 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 121):
The idea is not that US was providing connections at BOS, but rather that part of that O&D UA has been capturing at BOS has been US frequent flyers who chose to fly UA on routes like BOS-SFO because it allowed them to utilize Star Alliance benefits and earn US miles

  

The largest number of frequent fliers in a non-hub station for US is BOS. This was mentioned on one of their earnings calls.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 122):

The largest number of frequent fliers in a non-hub station for US is BOS. This was mentioned on one of their earnings calls.

I'm not surprised by this. When i flew BOS-PHL and the plane was late it literally seemed like everyone had connections, like everyone on board no joke. I do think B6 is slowly doing a great job grabbing up the FFs as they add more business destinations. Somewhere like ATL is very important for them to add.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Wed May 21, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 121):
The idea is not that US was providing connections at BOS, but rather that part of that O&D UA has been capturing at BOS has been US frequent flyers who chose to fly UA on routes like BOS-SFO because it allowed them to utilize Star Alliance benefits and earn US miles. The theory is that the US/AA merger means those US flyers are now in OW instead of Star, and would now look to utilize OW partners instead of a Star members.

I always wondered if there were more UA Mileage Plan members in BOS since the program is better i.e one way redemptions better online availability etc. Obviously this changes when Dividend Miles hopefully becomes AAdvantage with current AA benefits.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Thu May 22, 2014 2:45 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 112):
When you step back and see the big picture, you realize the new schedule is pretty ridiculous. Not only is DL actually adding capacity, but it's doing so while splitting up the connecting flows. That makes absolutely no sense. Demand doesn't just follow supply. It's fun to make some dummy bookings. Connections are now very limited, particularly to anything outside the Eastern Time Zone, and the overall flight selection is meager compared to AA. The only advantage to the new schedule is that some smaller markets in the east now see one-stop service if the times match. But that's like asking for a miracle to happen. The new flights don't even connect well with international flights. It's a recipe for failure as it stands. Mayo isn't a savior.

The chance of DTW-RST surviving is slim to none. None of the similar Midwest markets like FSD, SUX, DLH, or FAR currently has DTW service. It's a change that look like a future "we tried, but it didn't work". I'd say ATL-RST itself might work out, but they won't keep a station for one flight. The FNT metro area is over double the size of RST and can pull from the north end of the DTW metro. It's not a good comparison.

FNT's a good comparison in the sense that the majority of the local marker will consider flying out of whichever airport offers the lowest airfare. Obviously that's not a good thing since, in order for MSP-RST to remain attractive to DL, the route would have to gain a significant revenue premium over that of MSP (e.g. enough of a difference to cover the cost of the MSP/RST segment + a profit). Like I said, it's no different than what DL did at DTW to places like FNT and TOL. And yes, the Mayo Clinic will be a savior for DL at RST.

And DTW has had service to DLH for quite awhile; service to FSD resumes this fall. DL's aggressively better flowed traffic from DTW, it shouldn't surprise you it'll do the same from MSP, especially as 50-seat jets are replaced with 76ers.
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RWA380
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Thu May 22, 2014 6:59 am

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 63):
Glad to see YYC is finally getting another daily flights to SEA. These flights are super popular, especially with people connecting to Hawaii flights. I can't count the number of times my parents were on these flights and they were bumping people because they were always oversold

Or you can now fly DL YYC-SEA

Quoting commavia (Reply 114):
Korean does operate many flights between ICN and the U.S.

Is it safe to say that KE flies to more North American destination than any other Asian carrier?

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 118):
The CEO of Mayo Clinic said their biggest obstacle to progress is RST. It's reasonable to think that DL may be responding to Mayo prodding (and maybe some cash) in fiddling with the RST schedules.

Maybe a MSP-RST flight? I know those sick enough ar4rive by air ambulances.
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Mon May 26, 2014 3:02 am

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 28):
Thanks Enilria for this highlight of my Monday...

 
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 54):

Thanks as always enilria for compiling and posting...

 
 
MSPNWA
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RE: OAG Changes 5/23/2014: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA/US

Mon May 26, 2014 4:16 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 113):
There are some passengers for which ATL and DTW are better hubs, no?

For certain, but the question is who. The customer who wants to fly RST-CHS or RST-PVD at a certain time of day? Sure. But will all those obscure small markets be better to chase than all those that want to fly to the 100+ destinations MSP serves? Not a chance. Demand will be shifting to AA at RST and all airlines at MSP.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 125):
And yes, the Mayo Clinic will be a savior for DL at RST.

Even the most important trips to Mayo require a viable option to actually get there. DL will be reducing many of those options. Mayo wasn't the savior from seeing DL shrink and shrink, and it won't save it now from the 50-seater drawdown.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 125):

And DTW has had service to DLH for quite awhile

They used to, but they hadn't recently. It appears to return at 6x weekly this summer.

[Edited 2014-05-25 21:18:59]

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