Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
virginson937
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:40 pm

VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:30 pm

'Delta Air Lines and Virgin Atlantic will this winter transfer operations for direct flights from London Heathrow to Atlanta and Los Angeles.

From October 26, Delta will operate one of the two daily LHR to LAX services that are currently operated by Virgin.

This will be Delta's first nonstop flight between the two cities and its seventh direct service between London and the US.

On the same date, Virgin will begin operating one of Delta's three daily flights between LHR and Atlanta.

The two airlines will codeshare on each other's operated services. They unveiled their initial joint schedule, which began this summer, late last year'

Thoughts? I'm glad to see a 'metal swap' to integrate both brands in more cities served by the JV.

Will

(taken from http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...-to-transfer-transatlantic-flights
 
anstar
Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting virginson937 (Thread starter):
Thoughts? I'm glad to see a 'metal swap' to integrate both brands in more cities served by the JV.

The 2nd VS LAX flight is usually suspended in the winter, so given DL will be daily with the 767 for all of winter this is actually a capacity increase for the JV so thats got to be good news  
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3286
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:35 pm

Well beat me to it, the VS/DL experiment is starting to show that maybe DL has a better idea what to do with VS than SQ did.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3514
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:46 pm

So, does this again mean DL is going after UA like many claimed regarding the ORD-LHR??
 
cxb744
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:31 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:50 pm

Good news. Give me Delta economy over Virgin Economy any day. Seriously Virgin, card board boxes on carts to serve out of ... tacky. Only downside, B767 ... slow beast.
What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
 
miaami
Posts: 945
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting cxb744 (Reply 4):
Good news. Give me Delta economy over Virgin Economy any day. Seriously Virgin, card board boxes on carts to serve out of ... tacky. Only downside, B767 ... slow beast.

Come on over and try the AA 777-300 LAX-LHR flight. Great airplane!
 
slinky09
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:03 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:57 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 1):
The 2nd VS LAX flight is usually suspended in the winter, so given DL will be daily with the 767 for all of winter this is actually a capacity increase for the JV so thats got to be good news

Erm no it isn't. It may be cancelled on a few odd days but the VS23/24 is a popular flight and at least for this flier the removal of it (or rather replacement with a DL763 as a much worse option) is not a good move.

I see this instead as a sop to Delta's fliers who get to sample VS on the ATL route. Part of the power of DL's stake in VS. Good for SkyMiles holders, bad for VS regular fliers.

[Edited 2014-05-21 08:58:08]
 
LAXSTEW
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:48 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 3:58 pm

This is fantastic news. We've been drooling for ANY Europe over here.... STOKED.
 
anstar
Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:02 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 6):
Erm no it isn't. It may be cancelled on a few odd days but the VS23/24 is a popular flight and at least for this flier the removal of it (or rather replacement with a DL763 as a much worse option) is not a good move.

This past winter on most days over winter (Excluding the busier mid DEC - mid JAN times) wither the VS7 or the VS23 was cancelled leaving only 1 flight per day for a lot of winter.

For Winter 13/14
London Heathrow – Los Angeles Service reduced from 2 to 1 daily during following:
18NOV13 – 11DEC13 VS023/024 Cancelled
19JAN14 – 19FEB14 VS007/008 Cancelled
20FEB14 – 09MAR14 VS023/024 Cancelled

So that is a fair chunk of the winter with only a once a day LAX flight. In previous years they cancelled a few flights here and there form both, but last winter they made a decision to either operate the 7 or the 23 and bulk cancel for a month either service as shown int he above (From airlineroute).

So with that info, it is actually a capacity increase as DL will operate the 767 daily for the entire winter period - whereas for the last winter VS cancelled in effect the 2nd LAX flight for 2.5 months of the winter.

I presume further VS USA growth will be MSP/DTW and DL may increase the frequency by starting SFO/MIA - 2 routes that could do with some more VS capacity.

[Edited 2014-05-21 09:08:02]
 
travelin man
Posts: 3240
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:10 pm

A 767 going up against:

2x BA A380s
1x AA 77W
1x UA 772
1x VS B744
1x NZ 77W

I'm sure it's a capacity realignment issue for DL/VS, but that DL flight would be at the bottom of the list for me (maybe next to UA)... However I understand that for the most part people will choose whatever is cheapest.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:12 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 5):
Come on over and try the AA 777-300 LAX-LHR flight. Great airplane!

With 10-abreast Y? Thanks but no thanks.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14835
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:15 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 9):
I'm sure it's a capacity realignment issue for DL/VS, but that DL flight would be at the bottom of the list for me (maybe next to UA)... However I understand that for the most part people will choose whatever is cheapest.

There's no F on the DL 763, obviously, but the hard product in both classes is equal to if not better than AA and UA. YMMV, of course. It is admittedly the smallest airplane on the route.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:21 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 5):
Come on over and try the AA 777-300 LAX-LHR flight. Great airplane!

yup, dying to try the 10-abreast Y seat for the same price

and after 12 hours in that seat, i'll arrive dead

[Edited 2014-05-21 09:41:49]
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26466
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
but the hard product in both classes is equal to if not better than AA and UA.

You haven't flown the hard products if you really think it's equal to AA's J on the 77W.

It's a very weak hard product, but made weak by the limitations of the 763 size more than anything else. AA's 763s use the same weak seat.
a.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7213
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 9):
A 767 going up against:

2x BA A380s
1x AA 77W
1x UA 772
1x VS B744
1x NZ 77W

I'm sure it's a capacity realignment issue for DL/VS, but that DL flight would be at the bottom of the list for me

I'm not sure I understand that; the 2-3-2 seating of the 767 is very comfortable and DL's soft and hard product to LHR is very competitive. The service is also scheduled in coordination with the VS flight, so they don't really compete directly.
 
klkla
Posts: 852
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:32 pm

This move is simply about maximizing both airline's individual FF base within the JV.

For instance a DL Elite cannot upgrade on LAX-LHR as it is now and may not fly DL/VS for that reason. Now they can.

There are probably perks that VS elites cannot get flying DL metal from LHR-ATL. Now they can.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3240
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
I'm not sure I understand that; the 2-3-2 seating of the 767 is very comfortable and DL's soft and hard product to LHR is very competitive.

Different strokes I guess. I don't find DL's hard or soft product to be competitive, especially with the foreign carriers. The 2-3-2 seating is OK, but the 767 is slower than the other aircraft.

My last DL 767 experience ATL-LAX was absolutely miserable -- 4 hour tech delay after the airplane had supposedly been "fixed" the previous day -- ultimately we had to wait for a different 767 to come in. The 767s are getting old, and while I'm sure DL's maintenance is good, old planes break down and I'll take my chances on a newer A380 or 77W.

I understand that from a business perspective it's the right move. From my passenger perspective, "no thanks" when you look at the other options on this route.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14835
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
You haven't flown the hard products if you really think it's equal to AA's J on the 77W.

I don't travel alone that much longhaul. I think if I did, I'd appreciate the privacy on AA a lot more. Comfort-wise, I don't find them much different.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 8):
London Heathrow – Los Angeles Service reduced from 2 to 1 daily during following:
18NOV13 – 11DEC13 VS023/024 Cancelled
19JAN14 – 19FEB14 VS007/008 Cancelled
20FEB14 – 09MAR14 VS023/024 Cancelled


Cancelling flights to and from LHR like this for part of the Winter timetable is a common ploy used by both LHR based airlines, BA and VS. The EU regulations specify that slots not used on at least 80 per cent of occasions in any given season will be confiscated and redistributed. So during periods of low demand both airlines will cancel one of their daily flights on a multi-flight route. With careful monitoring they will shuffle the pack to maintain an 80 per cent plus operational level for each slot. Hence the cancellation of a different VS LHR LAX rotation over different periods of the timetable.

Other airlines have found other ways of preserving LHR slots. In the Winter Season of 2006-07 the then British Mediterranean Airways operating as a BA franchisee caused a bit of a stir when a section of the British media discovered that they were positioning a 320 LHR-CWL every day before repositioning it back to LHR on the following day. This went on across the whole of the Winter season. The first such rotation occurred on 1/2 November '06. The last was on 23/24 March '07.

A couple of years earlier QF wet leased a BAe146 from the now defunct Flightline to operate between LHR and MAN as a "feeder" to its LHR services even though its then partner in the JSA, BA, had plenty of flights on this route. It was suggested here on a-net that on occasion the number of passengers on these QF 146 flights reached as many as 22 although 5 was a more common load. This was another slot sitting exercise.

So, returning to the VS LHR / LAX service the actual number of winter season flights flown between LHR and LAX is more likely effectively determined by the EU and not by VS itself.
 
B747forever
Posts: 13861
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting klkla (Reply 15):
This move is simply about maximizing both airline's individual FF base within the JV.

  


Wouldnt actually be surprised if DL stays permanently on the LAX-LHR route, as it tries to build up its hub there. If demand warrants it they can upgauge it to a 777 during S15.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
airbazar
Posts: 10248
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:11 pm

Quoting virginson937 (Thread starter):
Thoughts? I'm glad to see a 'metal swap' to integrate both brands in more cities served by the JV.

I'm surprised that they wouldn't time the flight to offer connections from the SYD flight but that probably requires a whole different set of slots at LHR.

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 2):
Well beat me to it, the VS/DL experiment is starting to show that maybe DL has a better idea what to do with VS than SQ did.

SQ never had a JV with VS. They were mere investors.
 
TeamintheSky
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:18 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:17 pm

I am not aware of when DL moves completely to Terminal 3 at LHR, but I didn't think it would be by October...

If they haven't moved, I have to assume that the ATL flights will at least be moved to Terminal 3 by October.

Regards,

Team
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG, AA, JL, W6
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2228
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:24 pm

Definitely see this going to 767-400ER or 777 in the summer.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1897
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:31 pm

Didn't DL briefly fly LAX-LHR? I seem to recall them on the route, but it didn't last long. Maybe 5 years ago?

And while people loathe 3x4x3 on the AA/NZ 77W, it certainly has a better J product by far. So if I'm seated in Y, DL's 763 is roomier, but there's no international wifi. NZ's catering is by far the best in Y. You just can't compare. Pros and cons.
"The low fares airline."
 
N839MH
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:34 pm

And now starting November 4th, Delta will begin DFW-LAX with 4 flights a day with E175. It's about time Delta gets back into the West Coast from DFW....hopefully SEA will be announced next!
Solodude!
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4425
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:34 pm

What aircraft is vs using to ATL?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3514
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:36 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 23):

that was AF who was flying it.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1897
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:50 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 26):
that was AF who was flying it.

That's right! Now I remember. Thank you.

Quoting N839MH (Reply 24):
And now starting November 4th, Delta will begin DFW-LAX with 4 flights a day with E175. It's about time Delta gets back into the West Coast from DFW....hopefully SEA will be announced next!

Wow, DL really is out for blood! AA needs to get with the program. LAX-ATL/SEA/PDX are missing from their network on their own metal. However - with AA's lack of space at LAX, it could be a problem. Something has got to give.
"The low fares airline."
 
anstar
Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 25):
What aircraft is vs using to ATL?

A330-300
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7191
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
You haven't flown the hard products if you really think it's equal to AA's J on the 77W.

Haven't flown the AA version of their 77W seat, but have flown the US and DL version of it many times. To say the hard product on AA is significantly better than the 767 is an understatement. While I don't mind the 767 J seat, I love the reverse herringbone. Not even close.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 19):
Wouldnt actually be surprised if DL stays permanently on the LAX-LHR route, as it tries to build up its hub there. If demand warrants it they can upgauge it to a 777 during S15.
Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 22):
Definitely see this going to 767-400ER or 777 in the summer.

I doubt it. My guess is Delta will use a 35/36 seat 763 on this route. The 777 only has 37 seats up front. Not much of a difference. Plus, you don't see a ton of Delta 777s doing TATL - this summer is the first time in a long time that they have gone to London in addition to the DTW-AMS run now which works out quite well in between Asia flights from DTW rather than having that frame sit in DTW for a day.

The 767-400 simply doesn't have the range to do LAX-LHR with a decent payload. It can be payload optimized on something like MUC-ATL, and that's 700+ miles shorter than LHR-LAX. For this route, an A330-200 can do the job; a 767-400 cannot. (might need to go get my lawyer for saying the A332 is a better plane than the 764 even though only one can operate this route).

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 23):
Didn't DL briefly fly LAX-LHR?

AF operated the route with a 777 once Open Skies between the US and EU opened up. Didn't last long. It was part of the DL/AF JV.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 25):
What aircraft is vs using to ATL?

A330-300.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 27):

Wow, DL really is out for blood! AA needs to get with the program. LAX-ATL/SEA/PDX are missing from their network on their own metal. However - with AA's lack of space at LAX, it could be a problem. Something has got to give.

Not just DL .... LA to Dallas will be a nice little bloodbath

- DL starting DFW-LAX
- WN starting DAL-LAX
- VX moving to DAL-LAX
- NK is already DFW-LAX (but that's hardly a threat)
- UA (in the form of UAX) already on DFW-LAX, but then AA does LAX-IAH via AA Eagle so I don't blame UA for this

The only thing missing is jetblue doing DFW-LGB.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26466
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:08 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 27):
However - with AA's lack of space at LAX, it could be a problem. Something has got to give.

AA actually has a lot of space to expand RJ ops. It was planning to launch LAXSEA and LAXPDX this summer, but lack of mainline gate capacity put that on hold.

Delta is actually just about out of space too and now has to park RJs near the maintenance hangers and bus passengers.

UA is the only one with plenty of space these days.
a.
 
User avatar
n901wa
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:38 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:08 pm

Awesome news. I will be on one of those Delta flights before the end of the year.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:10 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 16):
old planes break down and I'll take my chances on a newer A380 or 77W.

New planes break down, too............the 787 seems to have had a few problems after they started service as well as the A380.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):

Quoting travelin man (Reply 9):
A 767 going up against:

2x BA A380s
1x AA 77W
1x UA 772
1x VS B744
1x NZ 77W

I'm sure it's a capacity realignment issue for DL/VS, but that DL flight would be at the bottom of the list for me

I'm not sure I understand that; the 2-3-2 seating of the 767 is very comfortable and DL's soft and hard product to LHR is very competitive. The service is also scheduled in coordination with the VS flight, so they don't really compete directly.

I agree!

I have flown NRT-SFO in Y + J on the 767 and I can promise everyone here I much prefer 2-3-2 in Y and 1-2-1 in J. The "average" passenger would agree, if seat maps were placed side-by-side-by-side (AA versus UA versus DL), the DL Seat Map would win hands down. We don't need facts or sources to back this up; it's just plain common sense who to choose for Y and in most cases in J.

I cannot comment on VS comfort, however.

Bon Voyage,

AirAfreak  
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
User avatar
n901wa
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:38 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:20 pm

Just wondering, how did you know the 767 with the delay was broken after it was fixed the day before? and what was the issue? Just asking not trying to start a war.
Its just in ATL with so many 767s I would have think they would have swapped acft. The last time my acft went AOS on my ATL to LAX flt they swapped a 767-300 for a 767-400 and never took a delay. Just wondering, Thanks
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8979
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:22 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 23):
So if I'm seated in Y, DL's 763 is roomier, but there's no international wifi.

DL is adding wifi to the long-haul widebody fleet. There are 744s flying about with Gogo satellite wifi. Some of the international 763s have, in the interim, a variation of the Gogo air-to-ground service that will provide several hours of service LAX-LHR.
 
surfdog75
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:29 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 30):
- DL starting DFW-LAX

Really? DFW-LAX. Did I miss that announcement? Used to be 3X daily.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1897
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 36):
Some of the international 763s have, in the interim, a variation of the Gogo air-to-ground service that will provide several hours of service LAX-LHR

You said it - some. I know DL is implementing it on certain wide bodies. However - the 763 does not offer the same satellite based wifi that AA has on their 77W.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 31):
AA actually has a lot of space to expand RJ ops. It was planning to launch LAXSEA and LAXPDX this summer, but lack of mainline gate capacity put that on hold

Then the wise thing to do, would be to at least start LAX-PDX/SEA on the CR9 since they have the RJ gate space. AS can't do it all for AA. UA has been doing long RJ flights for years, so obviously it works.

You know, as well as I do, that AA needs those missing links. Hopefully it will come into fruition.
"The low fares airline."
 
Travelmanager
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:05 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 7:00 pm

This seems like a waste. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep VS on the LAX route and DL on the ATL route? Or is DL going to handle ground ops for VS in ATL? Does DL handle the sales rep duties for VS in the new market? You would think it would be easier to allow elites to upgrade on VS and DL flights regardless of operating carrier by using miles or Global upgrades instead of operating the airlines to new cities
 
laca773
Posts: 2081
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 7:02 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 9):

2x BA A380s
1x AA 77W
1x UA 772
1x VS B744
1x NZ 77W

I'm sure it's a capacity realignment issue for DL/VS, but that DL flight would be at the bottom of the list for me (maybe next to UA)... However I understand that for the most part people will choose whatever is cheapest.

It most like is a capacity adjustment since the most smallest a/c VS operates is the A333. They haven't brought the A333 into LAX or SFO as of yet. Flying the 76W will allow DL-VS to adjust capacity demand accordingly during the slower Fall,
Winter seasons. I think this is a positive thing they are doing with their joint venture.

In the Fall/Winter, BA will operate a 77W on one of those two flights 2-3x per week when the demand is less.
I don't see UA keeping their 77Es on LAX-LHR much longer. I see this route going 788 sometime in the near future.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):
Cancelling flights to and from LHR like this for part of the Winter timetable is a common ploy used by both LHR based airlines, BA and VS. The EU regulations specify that slots not used on at least 80 per cent of occasions in any given season will be confiscated and redistributed. So during periods of low demand both airlines will cancel one of their daily flights on a multi-flight route. With careful monitoring they will shuffle the pack to maintain an 80 per cent plus operational level for each slot. Hence the cancellation of a different VS LHR LAX rotation over different periods of the timetable.

  

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 30):
- DL starting DFW-LAX
- WN starting DAL-LAX
- VX moving to DAL-LAX
- NK is already DFW-LAX (but that's hardly a threat)
- UA (in the form of UAX) already on DFW-LAX, but then AA does LAX-IAH via AA Eagle so I don't blame UA for this

How much longer will UAEx stay in this market? I wouldn't think much longer with the product they offer.


I hope VS's J product becomes more consistent. You always hear, it's a hit, or a miss. The catering isn't consistent either across the board. Perhaps DL catering can help them out with some of the slop they serve, and improve it.
Perhaps DL can influnce VS to improve the amenity kit they offer in J. DL's is by far, much nicer. In the end, I see them helping each other out in different ways.

[Edited 2014-05-21 12:03:23]
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 7:08 pm

Quoting travelmanager (Reply 39):
Wouldn't it make more sense to keep VS on the LAX route and DL on the ATL route? Or is DL going to handle ground ops for VS in ATL?

Possibly, DL is handling ground ops in ATL and LAX.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
globalflyer
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:15 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 7:16 pm

This is absolutely FANTASTIC news for ATL! Finally some new blood to the airport! Very exciting!

http://travelskills.com/2014/05/21/virgin-atlantic-fly-atlanta/
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 33):

New planes break down, too............the 787 seems to have had a few problems after they started service as well as the A380.

The 787 teething problems are mostly over.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 40):
How much longer will UAEx stay in this market? I wouldn't think much longer with the product they offer.

I don't think UA's in the market to be competitive. It's more like they NEED to provide coverage to satisfy clients/contracts. The fact that CR7 is used (not CR2/E145) shows that F is required here, even just as elite upgrade benefit.

But this is definitely a good candidate for 4x E175 ops, spread throughout the day (not 1x at dawn and 2x at dusk).
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 7:17 pm

Quoting klkla (Reply 15):
This move is simply about maximizing both airline's individual FF base within the JV.

For instance a DL Elite cannot upgrade on LAX-LHR as it is now and may not fly DL/VS for that reason. Now they can.

There are probably perks that VS elites cannot get flying DL metal from LHR-ATL. Now they can.

A plane just for the "upgraders"?

While I doubt that, I find it interesting that if true for the sake of argument Delta is effectively segregating the "upgraders" to the inferior 767.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 31):
Delta is actually just about out of space too and now has to park RJs near the maintenance hangers and bus passengers.

Are they back to doing that? More compliance issues for LAWA.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 43):
The 787 teething problems are mostly over.

The point was that NEW aircraft have problems, too, as opposed to the implication that older a/c break more often.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
BNAOWB
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:01 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 8:02 pm

The addition of VS will increase the number of non-U.S. passenger airlines at ATL to 7 (assuming that AM has stopped serving ATL again?): AC, AF, BA, KE, KL, LH, and VS.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 45):
The point was that NEW aircraft have problems, too, as opposed to the implication that older a/c break more often.

Usually only upon launch (the 787 being a rare failure). A brand new 787 today won't really have problems anymore.

My NRT-SJC in 787 was one of the best trans-pacific rides I ever had in business class. Can't imagine any good ole' 747/777 replicating that. I slept even better than when I was on CX's reverse herringbone.
 
NW747-400
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 8:14 pm

Quoting cxb744 (Reply 4):
Only downside, B767 ... slow beast.

Except that all aircraft on the North Atlantic tracks have to fly the same exact speed for spacing.

No one flies their aircraft exceptionally fast these days anyway because it costs too much. Almost everyone flies around at M.78, with the NAT tracks being slightly higher at M.80 to increase traffic flow over the routes.

So, the speed argument has no bearing on this route. I'd prefer a 767 anyway because of the 2 - 3 - 2 layout in Y. So much more comfortable than 3 - 4 - 3.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

RE: VS To Start Flights To ATL, Delta To Start LAX

Wed May 21, 2014 8:21 pm

Interesting as in the past DL took the 767-300ER off this route since it frequently went beyond 12 hours which created a 3 vs 4 man cockpit crew issue. Maybe they are just going to bump it up to.83, but I doubt it. Or, maybe they have added the 4th pilot along with a adequate crew rest area. Again, I doubt it.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos