Cubsrule
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 2:32 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 49):
The whole situation would be rediculous if the airport or city or whoever cannot at least find a way for DL to maintain their existing service all due to this completely arbitrary limitation on gates.

I agree, but then again I think the airport should not be capped at all (or should, like MDW, be gate capped at runway capacity), so I'm the wrong guy to talk to.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):
Why would they drop YYC-SLC? It's a good connecting hub for many destinations popular with Canadians, including LAS/PHX/TUS/PSP/LAX/SAN etc.

Yeah this is the my thoughts exactly. SLC is in a perfect location for some very popular locations for YYC people. Who wants to fly thru MSP to head to LAS, PSP, PHX etc. There is no way Delta can make money flying people that far out of the way. I am not too worried, this route has been around along time
 
ckfred
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 3:07 pm

It will be interesting to see how AA responds on LAX-DFW. When DL had its DFW hub, more often than not, DL didn't fly to ORD. And when it did, it was only 2 or 3 flights a day. When AA retired a number of DC-10s in the early 90s, it did some shuffling of the schedule. The result was the shuttle schedule on ORD-DFW with anywhere from 17 to 21 round trips.

By the same token, AA has also been willing to keep pace with DL on DFW-ATL, both the time when DFW was a DL hub and after the hub was closed.

Granted, DL entered the LGA-ORD route, now with 10 Embrear 175s, and it's managed to stay on the route. Notice that AA has responded by shifting its LGA-ORD flying from MD-80s to 738s. I can think of longer routes out of ORD where it would make more sense, especially from a fuel consumption standpoint, to switch over to the 738 ahead of ORD-LGA.

Might AA add extra flights on LAX-DFW? Might it try to rotate 738s or A321s with AVOD into the LAX-DFW schedule?
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 3:11 pm

Is it just me or I am starting to see signs of some ardent AS in SEA defenders start to mellow on DL in SEA  
Quoting EricR (Reply 4):
As expected. DL continues its successful expansion at LAX by connecting the dots to yet another large business market.

Dl had made no secret that LAX ail know be a core target of expansion. They even have dedicated sales team in the SoCal area now.

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 16):
It seems that DL is taking an, "Well if we can't buy 'em, let's crush 'em" strategy

When I said this a few months ago, I was harshly rebuked. Hope you got your hard hat on. I think i said "pummel them into a merger or submission"

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 17):
3,729 seats. Saturation??

You think?

Quoting mayor (Reply 38):
Except there is no evidence that they've even considered buying AS.

I am 100% sure that this subject has come up at Dl board level, as it has at ever other major US carrier. That is the BOD's job.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 3:17 pm

I am thinking LAX-ORD/ SEA-ORD will be coming relatively soon.

'902
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 3:37 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 43):
Quoting dbo861 (Reply 37):
Any chance Delta will offer free beer as well..just to keep up with AS?

Any chance that AS' Q400s will get window shades (!), extra legroom seats, an F cabin, overhead bins that accept roll-aboards, wifi, and jet engines to 'keep up' with Delta E75s?

Big deal. They are short flights. I'll take my free beer anytime over the other stuff. The Qs are plenty fine for short flights.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 55):
Big deal. They are short flights. I'll take my free beer anytime over the other stuff. The Qs are plenty fine for short flights.

Agree 100%. Honestly I don't think the Q's are a bad ride at all for these short hops.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 53):
I am 100% sure that this subject has come up at Dl board level,

Can you pick some lottery numbers for me?  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 4:10 pm

Would've been nice to split those four flights up 2x each E75 to LAX-DFW/LAX-DEN then another hole in the network would be covered oh well as a Bronco fan i hate going thru SLC to get to DEN...
 
bobnwa
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 53):
Dl had made no secret that LAX ail know be a core target of expansion. They even have dedicated sales team in the SoCal area now.

Delta has always had a dedicated sales team in the Los Angeles area as do the other major airlines
 
steex
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 58):
Would've been nice to split those four flights up 2x each E75 to LAX-DFW/LAX-DEN then another hole in the network would be covered

They're better off covering one hole in the network reasonably well than to cover two of them poorly. Given the level competition, 2x daily wouldn't even be worth entering either of those routes.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 46):
DL started MIA-LAX and MIA-LGA/JFK with no responce from AA.

AA went to practically a shuttle schedule this past winter with 14 daily MIALGA departures, and has increased MIAJFK by three daily flights since Delta entered.

ATLLAX is absolutely in the cards, but AA's priority regarding mainline at LAX right now is trying to squeeze all US departures into T4.
a.
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 5:23 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 33):
And as for the in-flight experience I'll take a CRJ-700 any day over a cramped Q400.

I don't get this comment. DL CRJ-700s and AS Q400s have the same seat pitch. The CRJ cabin is a whole 2 inches wider than the Q400 - that's negligible. Sure, the seats don't recline on the Q400, but do you really need that on a one-hour flight? I've flown on the Q400 quite a bit and don't feel any less comfortable than on a CRJ. I'll take the free beer on Alaska, myself.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):
Why would they drop YYC-SLC? It's a good connecting hub for many destinations popular with Canadians, including LAS/PHX/TUS/PSP/LAX/SAN etc.

your answer isn't doom and gloom enough.

Even though Delta has said SEA will have little to no effect on SLC and that SLC will even grow a little over the coming years some members here just refuse to believe it. Also logical traffic flows and such mean nothing.

Quoting miaami (Reply 46):
I would have thought AA would have started ATL-DCA and remained on ATL-LGA, but even those routes are not happening.

that I will agree on.

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 58):
Would've been nice to split those four flights up 2x each E75 to LAX-DFW/LAX-DEN then another hole in the network would be covered oh well as a Bronco fan i hate going thru SLC to get to DEN...

or just hurry up and add 4x daily to DEN also.  
Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 62):
I'll take the free beer on Alaska, myself.

I would too if it wasn't a prop. I really wish Delta would do the free beer but I just don't see that one happening.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 43):
Any chance that AS' Q400s will get window shades (!), extra legroom seats, an F cabin, overhead bins that accept roll-aboards, wifi, and jet engines to 'keep up' with Delta E75s?

Uh, it's Spokane, not Paris. You can drive there in a little over four hours. I think the Q is fine. To LAX? Not so much.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 51):
SLC is in a perfect location for some very popular locations for YYC people. Who wants to fly thru MSP to head to LAS, PSP, PHX etc.

Except that many of these destinations are now doable (or will be) over SEA. YYC-SLC/SEA-LAS/PSP/PHX/SFO/LAX/etc . And I'd imagine that DL would love to fill those SEA flights. That's not to say that SLC will suffer - I don't know and don't care - but certainly the "west" is going to be available as a connection over SEA for many city-pairs as well.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 54):
I am thinking LAX-ORD/ SEA-ORD will be coming relatively soon.

Yeppers. For SEA-Chicago, that'd be AA, AS, DL, UA, WN - pretty well covered.  
Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 62):
Sure, the seats don't recline on the Q400, but do you really need that on a one-hour flight?

Personally, I can't stand reclining seats on short haul flights. I'm not a recliner, but I'm always behind the person that has it back in full recline pretty much the entire trip. The few times I've reclined in the past, it's basically to give myself a little breathing room.

Never having flown the Q, the only thing that bugs me about QX is the lack of running water IINM in the bathroom. Aside form that, who cares? It's usually a short flight and by the time you're in cruise you're already a good chunk of the way there.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 64):
For SEA-Chicago, that'd be AA, AS, DL, UA, WN - pretty well covered.

I think it would be the same for LAX-ORD.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 64):
Personally, I can't stand reclining seats on short haul flights. I'm not a recliner, but I'm always behind the person that has it back in full recline pretty much the entire trip

agreed. I hate recline in Y. The seats are just to tight now days for me to do it, just because I know its a pain in the butt for the person behind me.
 
deregul8n
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 6:18 pm

UA LAX-DFW is on CR7 with a box snack in first no wifi plastic cups. DLs e175 has a mainline first class product glasswear and they also have wifi.
 
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canadianpylon
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 41):
SLCYYC is 20 PDEW and SLCYEG is 8 PDEW.

That doesn't even fill a CRJ-200 flying SLC-YYC-YEG-SLC.

Where do you get these numbers from? It is very interesting for other markets.
Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 65):
The seats are just to tight now days for me to do it, just because I know its a pain in the butt for the person behind me

Wow - you have a gentle side.   Well, I appreciate the attitude about your fellow passengers. I wish more people were as considerate onboard.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 6:43 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 47):
Note that with the recent schedule change, DL has removed the new DAL flying. The only thing that remains is the 6x 717 ATL-DAL.

Finally accepting the reality that was clearly obvious a couple of weeks ago.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 48):
. . . for which they still don't have a gate, though I expect a UA sublease is in the works.

Agree - that does appear likely. I just don't see United getting too excited about DAL, so a sublease of one of the two gates to Delta seems logical.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 52):
It will be interesting to see how AA responds on LAX-DFW.
Quoting ckfred (Reply 52):
Might AA add extra flights on LAX-DFW? Might it try to rotate 738s or A321s with AVOD into the LAX-DFW schedule?

Not sure how much "response" is really warranted here, let alone even possible. From a schedule perspective, it's hard to imagine AA adding much more - as was already said, AA is already at essentially an hourly shuttle today as it is, and given the time zone limitations eastbound, it's more than hourly at some times out of LAX - in the mornings there's literally a DFW flight every 30 minutes. I suppose AA can upgauge more flights to larger jets, but then I question whether it's even necessary. In the scheme of things this addition is pretty tiny, and AA's undisputed dominance of this route is really not under threat. I actually agree with others that this may well have a bigger impact on United than AA, considering that Delta actually now replicates many of the same connecting traffic flows over LAX that United does, albeit will be flying this route with a far better airplane.

Quoting deregul8n (Reply 66):
UA LAX-DFW is on CR7 with a box snack in first no wifi plastic cups. DLs e175 has a mainline first class product glasswear and they also have wifi.

This is really the trend. It does appear Delta's growth at LAX this time around is different than the last few aborted attempts over the years - Delta is clearly serious, and is clearly out to become a big LAX player. AA's recent (and continuing) growth leads me to believe that AA has no interest in relinquishing its market leadership (albeit by a small margin), but United for years has seemed more than content to simply let AA and Delta take more and more of the market. In market after market these days, Delta is now flying bigger and/or nicer jets than United, and in many of the smaller regional markets that AA wasn't even flying just a few years ago, it is now handily beating United in terms of frequency and capacity. Looking recently at some LAX routes - like SJC, RNO, TUS - I could not believe how big the disparity now is between AA, which was effectively a new entrant in 2011, and United, which has flown some of these routes for literally decades and had multiple daily 737s in these markets 10-15 years ago. The LAX air travel market has been unbelievably dynamic in the last few years.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 69):
Agree - that does appear likely. I just don't see United getting too excited about DAL, so a sublease of one of the two gates to Delta seems logical.

I think the use of those gates will now be high enough that UA doesn't have to worry about losing them, but I nevertheless wonder whether we will see a bit more expansion by Delta. IAH-DAL isn't that big or important a route to UA; most passengers can more easily reach the Metroplex connecting to DFW over some other hub, and the local market, while it's there, isn't that large. I could see the two gates winding up with more like 12-14 DL flights and 4-6 UA flights if DL is interested in more growth. I don't see why UA would oppose making more money from DL for gates about which it likely doesn't care much other than for blocking VX and, to a lesser degree, WN from additional expansion.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 7:06 pm

Has anybody considered that success at LAX for DL isn't going to be nearly as difficult this go around simply because DL has become so much larger? Basically, the competition has been cut in half. Their success at LAX isn't going to be as difficult in the sense that they really only have to consider AA, WN and UA now vs. AA, UA, CO, US, FL, WN and NW. Of course there are still the handful of smaller carriers like AS, B6, VX and NK, but the largest airlines have created a situation where they are so large that they can pretty much muscle their way into any market they please. The airline landscape in our country has become a lot more mundane for airline geeks.
 
EricR
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 71):
Has anybody considered that success at LAX for DL isn't going to be nearly as difficult this go around simply because DL has become so much larger?
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 71):
ut the largest airlines have created a situation where they are so large that they can pretty much muscle their way into any market they please.

Completely agree. In addition, this is also the reason why DL's entrance into SEA should also yield positive results in the long run. However, the government has attempted to neutralize this impact somewhat by awarding gates/slots to smaller carriers in airports such as DCA, DAL, LGA, etc.
 
Travelmanager
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 8):
I doubt DL is going to get much if any local traffic on SEA-GEG considering the substantial AS presence in the market. And if the route is more about feed for the transpac network out of SEA, the only thing I wonder is what the demand is between GEG and Asia? Probably not that much.

Several Universities: Washington State, Gonzaga, Eastern. Schwitzer Labs in Pullman and the Metro Spokane area. Those will also partially feed the DL expansion down the West Coast and help those feeder flights

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 16):
Will AS' fierce brand loyalty among Pacific Northwesterners be enough to withstand the DL onslaught?

Seattle is a very international city. Alaska's program is great for domestic US trips but I would much rather be a Diamond on Delta flying internationally on KLM/Air France than a MVP Gold 75K flying on BA for example. Alaska is a great airline, but those who travel internationally frequently will find the 8 Delta long haul destinations served non-stop from Seattle very tempting.
 
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deltacto
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 47):
Note that with the recent schedule change, DL has removed the new DAL flying. The only thing that remains is the 6x 717 ATL-DAL.

You are right!

Delta's desktop timetable now shows nothing but DAL-ATL on the 717 - 6 times a day.
No more LAX, DTW, LGA, or MSP

Checking delta.com - the flights still show up in the schedules display and the booking engine

I wonder if they will put out a press release?  
 
rwsea
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting travelmanager (Reply 73):
Seattle is a very international city. Alaska's program is great for domestic US trips but I would much rather be a Diamond on Delta flying internationally on KLM/Air France than a MVP Gold 75K flying on BA for example. Alaska is a great airline, but those who travel internationally frequently will find the 8 Delta long haul destinations served non-stop from Seattle very tempting.

Except that Delta's frequent flyer program is practically worthless, while AS has the best one in the US.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Thu May 22, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 51):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):
Why would they drop YYC-SLC? It's a good connecting hub for many destinations popular with Canadians, including LAS/PHX/TUS/PSP/LAX/SAN etc.

Yeah this is the my thoughts exactly. SLC is in a perfect location for some very popular locations for YYC people. Who wants to fly thru MSP to head to LAS, PSP, PHX etc. There is no way Delta can make money flying people that far out of the way. I am not too worried, this route has been around along time

In the mid-1990s DL had 4 daily 757s YYC-SLC.
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting deregul8n (Reply 66):
UA LAX-DFW is on CR7 with a box snack in first no wifi plastic cups. DLs e175 has a mainline first class product glasswear and they also have wifi.

UA has the superior FF program.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 17):

AA about 17/18x daily from DFW
DL Connection 4x daily from DFW
UA Express 3x daily from DFW
NK 1x daily from DFW

VX 3x daily from DAL
WN 3x daily from DAL

I expect UA might move LAX to DAL. With DL dropping their plans for DAL it's apparent the only deal DL might have negotiated with UA was to share a gate so they could continue to operate DAL-ATL.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 12:15 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 77):
Quoting deregul8n (Reply 66):UA LAX-DFW is on CR7 with a box snack in first no wifi plastic cups. DLs e175 has a mainline first class product glasswear and they also have wifi.
UA has the superior FF program.

That's true but it's pretty pathetic UA doesn't serve meals in first on regional jets, especially given they tend to use them on longer segments than AA/DL, who both serve meals on RJs. AA managers to serves a full meal on LGA-DTW on a CRJ-700.
a.
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 1:30 am

Quoting travelmanager (Reply 73):
Several Universities: Washington State, Gonzaga, Eastern. Schwitzer Labs in Pullman and the Metro Spokane area. Those will also partially feed the DL expansion down the West Coast and help those feeder flights

Nearly all business travel for both WSU and Schweitzer Engineering is done directly from Pullman/Moscow Regional, not Spokane.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 59):
Delta has always had a dedicated sales team in the Los Angeles area as do the other major airlines

Not true, that "person" was laid off when DL quit LAX experiment Part 1. LAX was being covered by sales personnel from Tx and NY in the following years. a few months ago a dedicated LAX based sales team was hired with special emphasis on ethnic markets (Persian, Salvadoran etc)
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
n7371f
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 2:32 am

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 62):
I don't get this comment. DL CRJ-700s and AS Q400s have the same seat pitch.

That is not correct. When AS added another row to the port side of the Q, pitch went to 30 inches in numerous rows. But hey, each their own. I'll gladly fly the CR7 and at a minimum get 34 inches pitch if not likely an upgrade. A swig of lukewarm dark beer just doesn't wow me.

I admire AS loyalists - they're loyal regardless of what others see as noticeable shortcomings. No wi-fi to me is unacceptable for an airline that flies out of several high tech bases. But whatever...the market will speak.

[Edited 2014-05-22 20:26:53]
 
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Acey
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 41):
That doesn't even fill a CRJ-200 flying SLC-YYC-YEG-SLC.

Yet the route remains. SLC remains a viable connection point, it seems.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 2:48 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 76):
In the mid-1990s DL had 4 daily 757s YYC-SLC.

And if I recall, correctly, there were two 757s a day, YEG-SLC. I used to make out the cargo manifests for the Canadian flights at cargo in SLC......we also did the General Declarations.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
kiramakora
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 3:23 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL5729 SEA-YYC 1130 1355 E75 CP
DL5741 SEA-YYC 1940 2205 E75 CP

DL5729 YYC-SEA 0725 0800 E75 CP*
DL5755 YYC-SEA 1155 1230 E75 CP

Are the WestJet planners sleeping? They should be doing this route.
 
laca773
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 52):
Might AA add extra flights on LAX-DFW? Might it try to rotate 738s or A321s with AVOD into the LAX-DFW schedule?

This is ridiculous. AA has how many flights on the busiest days of the week? 18? AVOD? How many 738s have them now? AA has done a great job putting their act together. I don't see them upgauging any of those flights, with the number of frequencies, it's probably not needed. I can't even imagine AA adding any further mainline flights until they combine operations with the US merger. They are bursting at the seams now. (Does anyone know how often a mainline flight has to use the westside remote jetways? )

Quoting commavia (Reply 69):
This is really the trend. It does appear Delta's growth at LAX this time around is different than the last few aborted attempts over the years - Delta is clearly serious, and is clearly out to become a big LAX player. AA's recent (and continuing) growth leads me to believe that AA has no interest in relinquishing its market leadership (albeit by a small margin), but United for years has seemed more than content to simply let AA and Delta take more and more of the market. In market after market these days, Delta is now flying bigger and/or nicer jets than United, and in many of the smaller regional markets that AA wasn't even flying just a few years ago, it is now handily beating United in terms of frequency and capacity. Looking recently at some LAX routes - like SJC, RNO, TUS - I could not believe how big the disparity now is between AA, which was effectively a new entrant in 2011, and United, which has flown some of these routes for literally decades and had multiple daily 737s in these markets 10-15 years ago. The LAX air travel market has been unbelievably dynamic in the last few years.

I appreciate your thoughts and observations, commavia. Makes a lot of sense, and at the same time is not offensive. I've learned a lot from you.
I think we'll see UA discontinue some of these UAEx flights since DL, and AA have added, increased, and improved the service in many of these markets where they compete with UA. UA is lost, and both AA, and DL are trying their best to put out a decent product people will appreciate, and return for, not just the corporate accounts, but those who fly a lot on their own time and dollar.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4994
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 5:22 am

Is CP really California Pacific?
 
Prost
Posts: 2454
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 6:17 am

CP= Compass Airlines
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5525
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 7:37 am

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 16):
Will AS' fierce brand loyalty among Pacific Northwesterners be enough to withstand the DL onslaught?

YES, and onslaught is really not the word, with the limited gate space DL will be able to obtain in SEA, due to the huge AS presence, DL will never be able to provide an onslaught to dethrone Queen AS. True DL is providing some much wanted connections to foreign ports from SEa, and they have put in place a domestic structure to support that, DL will not win the hearts of the loyal AS flyer. Although they may be the easiest way to get to HKG.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 22):
I would not be the least bit surprised if DL dropped YYC-SLC

I'd be hugely surprised, DL has made a good living using SLC as a great connecting point across the mountain states and provinces.

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 26):
Don't really care for AS and finally an easier way to get to YYC from SEA area instead of going through YVR!

Wow, you hate AS so much that you'd rather fly via YVR to get to YYC? I guess you are one of the rare few that hate AS.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 29):
Oh no SEA-GEG... everyone is going to lose their minds lol. It's the arbitrary act of war we've been hearing about for a while

This is just one or two persons line in the sand ... The line has been drawn so many times in these kind of threads by different members whose threshold was different.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 33):
What's so much better about GEG on AS?

Points in one of the best frequent flyer programs in the industry. Free beer and Wine, and the great AS spirit, something that can not be matched on a large scale.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 33):
And as for the in-flight experience I'll take a CRJ-700 any day over a cramped Q400

Same seats and fuselage, or close to it. No discernable difference, except the jets vs props, and on a flight that short there would be less tha a 5 minute difference in elapsed time.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 33):
I had written about this several times before -- that I'd know DL is serious about serious without AS if GEG was ad

The other lines in the sand that I can remember hearing in these past threads was, SEA-ANC, SEA-JNU, SEA-PDX was mine, the list will just continue. AS knew this was coming a while back and they have already increased their SEA-GEG presence, as they did with SEA-BOI, which wouldn't surprise me to be announced.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 44):
The question should be ,what is the demand between Asia and GEG since the majority of passengers on US to Asia flights originated in Asia

Well GEG-Asia, GEG-Europe, GEG-ANC, GEG-LAX-SYD to name a few others that DL will likely want to capture.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 55):
Big deal. They are short flights. I'll take my free beer anytime over the other stuff. The Qs are plenty fine for short flights.

There isn't a big deal, the seats and fuselage are very similar, the jets are the only difference, and a F cabin for a 50 minute flight. I like the Q400 with the double door boarding, the great AS staff, and the free NW wine and beer, plus I get my points in the best frequent flyer program for us Northwesterners.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 71):

Has anybody considered that success at LAX for DL isn't going to be nearly as difficult this go around simply because DL has become so much larger?

Yes, I liken it to that one kid on a playground that is bigger than everyone else, and when he wants to play ball, he pushes himself into the game and takes what he wants.

Yes based on size, DL can just throw aircraft and add routes wherever they want to, it doesn't mean that people are so stupid that they can't see how DL got to where they are in SEA. DL will do fine in SEA along side AS, but they will NEVER have the brand loyalty that AS does here in the Northwest. People may fly them when AS can't get them there, but they won't accept them as part of the fabric of our community like we do with AS, IMO.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 75):
Except that Delta's frequent flyer program is practically worthless, while AS has the best one in the US.


        

Quoting n7371f (Reply 81):
I admire AS loyalists - they're loyal regardless of what others see as noticeable shortcomings. No wi-fi to me is unacceptable for an airline that flies out of several high tech bases. But whatever...the market will speak

Thanks, what you see as short comings, others do not care about such trivial issues for a flight under 1 hour. Same seats, fuselage. If one can not live with out internet for an hour and do otherr business on their computer, then they should fly DL. For the other 95% of us, getting points in a great frequent flyer program and double door boarding is better, oh yeah, fresh local brews and local wines for free helps make 50 minute fly by.  
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3493
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RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 7:44 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 81):

Lol I very HIGHLY doubt wifi for a flight under an hour is going to sway a single person. Get real. That really grasping at straws
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 12:39 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 81):
That is not correct. When AS added another row to the port side of the Q, pitch went to 30 inches in numerous rows. But hey, each their own. I'll gladly fly the CR7 and at a minimum get 34 inches pitch if not likely an upgrade.

If you have time to sit around for hours and wait for one of the DL flights when AS is hourly (and in some cases more frequent), I say good for you. Most business passengers don't.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 3:24 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 89):
Lol I very HIGHLY doubt wifi for a flight under an hour is going to sway a single person. Get real. That really grasping at straws

Especially when you consider the extremely low usage rates of the onboard WiFi anyway.
 
YYCSpotter
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:03 pm

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 4:27 pm

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 62):
CRJ cabin is a whole 2 inches wider than the Q400

I seem to recall that a CRJ/Q400 pilot at Jazz told me that it was the opposite.
 
TUSAA
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:20 am

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 85):
I think we'll see UA discontinue some of these UAEx flights

Exactly....AA is working on a deal to take over 4 UA gates in T-6 at LAX.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25751
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 93):
Exactly....AA is working on a deal to take over 4 UA gates in T-6 at LAX.

That would be awesome. Let's hope it would coincide with the T4-T5 tunnel reopening.

UA just doesn't seem too interested in LAX lately, MEL addition aside.

It is ending LAXPIT and LAXPDX this fall, and I'm sure other cuts will follow.
a.
 
B6WNQX
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Fri May 23, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 92):
I seem to recall that a CRJ/Q400 pilot at Jazz told me that it was the opposite

I thought I would pull the specs on each of the aircraft:

Dimension...........................Q400.....CRJ200.....CRJ700.....CRJ900
Exterior Dimension..............8' 10".....8' 10".........8' 10".........8' 10"
Interior Centerline................8' 5".......8' 3"...........8' 5"...........8' 5"
Floor Width..........................6' 8".......7' 2"...........7' 1"...........7' 1"

So it is the width at the floor that is the most different. I did not pull the data for the Interior Height as since the fuselage is the same diameter I bet the height is the only thing affecting the interior width.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4994
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Sun May 25, 2014 3:06 am

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 93):
Exactly....AA is working on a deal to take over 4 UA gates in T-6 at LAX.

Really? Why would AA want to split their LAX terminal ops like that???

DL's entry into the SEA-GEG market just fills in some of the void left by WN. It won't be that much of a factor on AS loads.

Economy is good here in Seattle right now, with a quick increase in population. But we'll see what happens when we enter the backside of this Economic cycle.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Sun May 25, 2014 5:07 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 96):

DL's entry into the SEA-GEG market just fills in some of the void left by WN. It won't be that much of a factor on AS loads.

The difference being, of course, that the AS flight would have fed/been fed by DL over SEA while WN was feeding WN. Now AS loses some of those people back to DL.

The bigger picture is that these continual additions just make DL appear to be more of a one-carrier solution to more and more people. I say "appear" because most of these flights haven't begun yet and we don't know if they will last or for how long. Nonetheless, there will be scores of passengers who will find switching over to DL a convenient and rewarding decision.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
deltal1011man
Topic Author
Posts: 5332
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Sun May 25, 2014 1:53 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 68):
I wish more people were as considerate onboard.

me too. When someone reclines back into me I just want to pull a Stewie.... http://video.adultswim.com/family-guy/oh-no-a-baby.html
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

RE: Delta Starting SEA-YYC/GEG LAX-DFW

Sun May 25, 2014 2:09 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 97):

True, until they try to use their pesos (apologies to Mexico). 40K r/t each when I searched yesterday to have my parents visit OKC - fine - let's try one way since I don't have 80K skypesos sitting around - oh it's 40K for a one-way too! Ridiculous. So glad I switched to AA - until their recent stealth devaluation of course.

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