Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
AA94
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 11):
I rest my case. I never spun anything. I however knew you would bring something up. 10 across is the new norm. It's not comfortable. It's tight. It sucks. But guess what? It's the new normal. I never said it was peaches and cream. If said passenger wants 9 across, then they'll opt for whatever carrier has it. At the end of the day, it's about the numbers. People vote with their wallets. And it's proven that money talks, and the rest, well, you know.

  

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 20):
I really don't see how a CASM advantage to an airline is beneficial to me at all as a consumer. The last time I flew 10-abreast on AF only because they're quoting $650 while everyone else is quoting $1200. For that amount of savings, I'll put up with the pain. I view this as - no gain ? then no pain.

It's not beneficial to you. AA, like all other airlines, is a business, not a charity. The duty of the company is to return value to its shareholders through profitability. Like it or not, that's the bottom line. Until consumers boycott or somehow become a serious detriment to that goal, airlines will continue to adopt 10-abreast and enact other measures to increase their profitability.

Arguing that narrower seat should equal less cash out of your pocket shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the very goal of 10-abreast: to provide that slight CASM advantage.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 40):
I don't believe those figures are validated, verified, or even official. There are threads on FT talking about the inconsistencies they spot on seatguru.com.

Asiana's own website does not provide seat width data. However, all evidence online points to the seat width being 17".
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting AA94 (Reply 50):

Sorry you got it all backwards

Posters were arguing 10x is GOOD for consumers eventually, but I'm not convinced unless I see actual savings, which rarely happens. If you care about an airline's casm to the detrement of your own comfort, then I applaud your altruistic behavior.

And regarding the Asiana thing, you can believe any number on the internet you want. I'd love to read your trip report that swears 9x and 10x are absolutely identical in passenger comfort, because god willing, seatguru is as accurate as britannica
 
incitatus
Posts: 3395
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 4:02 am

Quoting AA94 (Reply 50):
Arguing that narrower seat should equal less cash out of your pocket shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the very goal of 10-abreast: to provide that slight CASM advantage.

It may not mean directly lower prices. But eventually the lower cost to produce drives adjustments in capacity which have an influence in prices, leading yes, to lower prices.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
crAAzy
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 7:17 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 52):

It may not mean directly lower prices. But eventually the lower cost to produce drives adjustments in capacity which have an influence in prices, leading yes, to lower prices.

Ha ha ha.

While a nice concept do you really think any airline today is going to lower it's prices more than necessary for the benefit of the consumer?
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2447
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 2:36 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 24):
You honesty claim 8-abreast on 330 is equivalent to 10-abreast on 77W ? Go do some actual flying instead of relying on junk facts on the internet.

Taken in context of the a). size of the aircraft and b). duration of the flight, yes, I do. The width of the seat still provides the same level of comfort whether you're on a CRJ-200 or a 77W. You're spending 99.9% of the flight seated in that exact spot. How is that any different?

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 24):
Seatguru is as reliable a source as wikipedia or Skytrax.

That's your personal opinion. I've yet to hear anyone categorize seatguru in the same bracket as the other two websites.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 40):
There are threads on FT talking about the inconsistencies they spot on seatguru.com.

So you're saying that speculative threads on FT written by people who generally know very little about the airline industry is a veritable means to claim that seatguru is inherently flawed?  
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 47):
Because they're so illogical it doesn't pass a smell test

Nor does changing a user name every 6 weeks, but I'll leave it at that.
 
AA94
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 4:15 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 55):
So you're saying that speculative threads on FT written by people who generally know very little about the airline industry is a veritable means to claim that seatguru is inherently flawed?  

  

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 51):
And regarding the Asiana thing, you can believe any number on the internet you want. I'd love to read your trip report that swears 9x and 10x are absolutely identical in passenger comfort, because god willing, seatguru is as accurate as britannica

I never suggested that 9-abreast and 10-abreast were the same thing anywhere, so kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 52):
It may not mean directly lower prices. But eventually the lower cost to produce drives adjustments in capacity which have an influence in prices, leading yes, to lower prices.

That seems like the textbook answer, but my opinion is that rarely does this happen in practice.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 5:33 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 14):
This transition of one daily flight is temporary until we retrofit our fleet of 777-200s with fully lie-flat seats

Sounds like some future JFK-LHR flights may no longer feature 1st Class.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 5:40 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 62):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 14):This transition of one daily flight is temporary until we retrofit our fleet of 777-200s with fully lie-flat seats
Sounds like some future JFK-LHR flights may no longer feature 1st Class.

That is not currently in the cards.
a.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1897
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 5:46 pm

Back to the topic at hand.

It's been said by inside sources, that the first reconfigured 772 will be in August. Whilst all have been painted in the new livery.

First routes have yet to be announced. I would think that it's a free for all, since each frame rotates systemwide. There really hasn't been a review of the seat, since it has yet to be placed on the line.

Highlights in my opinion are - international wifi (As 77W), an improved J product, advanced AVOD, and a large Main Cabin Extra section. This, as MAH4546 has stated - is fantastic news, as it offers the forward Y section to be 9 abreast, and the aft Y section 10 abreast. Whereas AA could have just placed 4 rows of MCE, and added 10 abreast thereafter.

On a side note - there has yet to be an additional 763 retrofit. The one frame is secluded to JFK-ZRH rotations, and has yet to see any other city. I find it unusual that there hasn't been another frame since.
"The low fares airline."
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 64):
On a side note - there has yet to be an additional 763 retrofit. The one frame is secluded to JFK-ZRH rotations, and has yet to see any other city. I find it unusual that there hasn't been another frame since.

A second frame starts JFKMXP soon. I think July 2nd.
a.
 
AA94
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 6:25 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 64):
On a side note - there has yet to be an additional 763 retrofit. The one frame is secluded to JFK-ZRH rotations, and has yet to see any other city. I find it unusual that there hasn't been another frame since.

Agree, this does seem odd. Is anyone familiar with how much slack AA has in the 763 fleet? I suppose that if they're maxed out over the summer, perhaps additional retrofits won't be completed until fall, but then I find it unusual that AA would begin retrofits immediately before the high season.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 64):
Highlights in my opinion are - international wifi (As 77W), an improved J product, advanced AVOD, and a large Main Cabin Extra section. This, as MAH4546 has stated - is fantastic news, as it offers the forward Y section to be 9 abreast, and the aft Y section 10 abreast. Whereas AA could have just placed 4 rows of MCE, and added 10 abreast thereafter.

  
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 9:19 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 62):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 63):That is not currently in the cards.
Can you elaborate?

There are no current plans to use 2-class aircraft on JFKLHR.
a.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6266
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Sat May 24, 2014 3:00 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 14):

It's coming back. Why does that fact upset you so much?

Seriously man, I have no idea what you are talking about. I love JFK...and if any airline adds service I am happy.

I have seen lots of a.net speculation on AA taking back the 4th JFK-LHR flight from AA...most of it from you.

I hope it does come back. But I am not alone in doubting that.

Frankly, I think it would show some commitment from AA to JFK...which is on shaky ground at this point in my opinion. That commitment would make a lot of us JFK fans happy.

Despite the press release from AA from whenever, there is no return date yet...and you personally said it would be back in summer. Then fall. Yet, when is it?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Sat May 24, 2014 4:00 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 64):
Despite the press release from AA from whenever, there is no return date yet...and you personally said it would be back in summer. Then fall. Yet, when is it?

It was never summer, always fall.

It will come back as fast as the 777s refurbs go.
a.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Sat May 24, 2014 12:57 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 61):
There are no current plans to use 2-class aircraft on JFKLHR

BA just ran a 1st Class promotion. 1 way F upgrade for full fare round trip J purchase. Maybe F on every single JFK-LHR flight is just too much inventory? Then there's the added Y capacity of American's 777-300. I can't help but wonder whether the reconfigured 772 may not better match demand on the route, at least on some of the flights and during certain times of the year.
 
delta2ual
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:18 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Sat May 24, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 18):
Delta and United will very quickly change their 777s to 10-abreast

If it brings in extra revenue and puts them at a disadvantage to their competitors, they will probably follow suit. DL doesn't have near the 777's that UA and AA have so they might not change it so quickly. This is precisely why if the changes to DL's FF program brings in extra money, don't think for a minute others won't match it. We're kind of at a wait-and-see point right now, but I wouldn't put anything past Doug Parker. He is a shrewd businessman and once the merger is competed and all the union contracts are aligned, I'm sure they will cut somewhere and raise money elsewhere to compete. It's just common business sense, although some don't want to hear it (I'm just saying this in general; I'm not directing it at any one in particular). I'm fascinated by the business side of airlines.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
oc2dc
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:38 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 2:50 am

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 15):
What about Frankfurt? They started the 772 again because there was a F Demand and the 763 did not have a First Class. Will FRA see the 77W as well or are they installing some 772 with First Class?

I would think the 77W would be a great candidate for FRA. It needs the premium capacity and could certainly use some seats in the back. . . My family and I have flown the route many times since it went back to the 777. Each time the flight has been full in the front and usually pretty packed in the back.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 58):
On a side note - there has yet to be an additional 763 retrofit. The one frame is secluded to JFK-ZRH rotations, and has yet to see any other city. I find it unusual that there hasn't been another frame since.

Just flew in Y on JFK-ZRH. I was devastated to see that not even a seat was repaired. Absolutely nothing was done to the Y cabin. I flew J on the way back and was underwhelmed by the new product. There is essentially nothing to look forward to in these retrofits. No need to worry about more coming out..... Just get rid of the bloody 767!
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 6:03 am

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 66):
I would think the 77W would be a great candidate for FRA

Very much doubt it. There just isn't much 1st Class demand for DFW-FRA, and with US doing PHL/CLT-FRA, the 77W is too much Y inventory for a market AA struggled to hold on to. If there is 1 place in Europe, other than LHR, I could see American offering 1st Class, it is JFK/MIA-CDG.

[Edited 2014-05-25 23:23:05]
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 7:11 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 67):

JFK-CDG is the first route slated for new 2-class 787 ... doesn't sound like much of a confidence vote for eventual 77W upgauge

That route is solidly in skyteam's hands
 
caribair
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:21 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 12:56 pm

The new interior In J for the 767-300 is very nice and it is a big improvement from the actual J seats.
New AA 767-300 interior in J
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4501
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 1:47 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 54):
The width of the seat still provides the same level of comfort whether you're on a CRJ-200 or a 77W. You're spending 99.9% of the flight seated in that exact spot. How is that any different?

Two words:

Psychology

Claustrophobia

You need to take both into account.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 58):
First routes have yet to be announced. I would think that it's a free for all, since each frame rotates systemwide.

Which will make it interesting if it ends up on MIA-LAX-MIA as the seats are sold as F / J / Y - so what will happen to those who purchased F when a plane shows up with no F class?!

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 58):
Highlights in my opinion are - international wifi

Will the international WiFi be turned on for those flights that operate domestically (i.e. MIA-LAX-MIA)?

Quoting caribair (Reply 69):
The new interior In J for the 767-300 is very nice and it is a big improvement from the actual J seats.

Thanks for posting the picture. It does look nicer than the old J class in the 763.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 68):
That route is solidly in skyteam's hands

American & Oneworld do very well competing with Skyteam in the New York area to Ile-de-France market, especially in the premium segment. I pulled up flights for 18 November 2014, a typical off season date when airlines are relying on business travelers, ST offers 6 flights that day, OW 4.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 68):
doesn't sound like much of a confidence vote for eventual 77W upgauge

Debuting the premium heavy 788 on JFK-CDG in January 2015, a time of the year when TATL flights are half empty, is very much a vote of confidence by American in the premium segment in this market and the possibility of an eventual up-gauge.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6278
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 4:43 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 67):
Very much doubt it. There just isn't much 1st Class demand for DFW-FRA, and with US doing PHL/CLT-FRA, the 77W is too much Y inventory for a market AA struggled to hold on to. If there is 1 place in Europe, other than LHR, I could see American offering 1st Class, it is JFK/MIA-CDG.

There isn't much 1st class demand on MIA-CDG either. Even AF had been using the very large 744 with a lower premium capacity and a higher Y capacity until recently. MIA-CDG is a massive market and the J demand is there, but not so much the F demand.

There is from JFK-CDG, but AF pretty much has it all in their hands.

If anything, DFW-Europe and MIA-Europe should be rid of the 763 (except for MIA-MXP). They should be replaced with newly configured 777 and 330's from the US fleet.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 71):

Skyteam has up to A380, and a few flights with F

Oneworld I count 1x 763/788 and 3x 752 from AA and EC, currently with no F seats in this market

Star has the worst offering on EWR-CDG so I won't even list them
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3510
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Mon May 26, 2014 11:50 pm

This thread has drifted off topic and will be locked to further posts.

All posts made after the lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Regards,
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos