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pasu129
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Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 4:34 pm

Please delete if dup.

Where will the retrofitted AA 772 fly? When will be they start entering into service? And if there are any reviews already on the backward facing J seats?
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kaitak744
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 4:51 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Thread starter):
Where will the retrofitted AA 772 fly?

They will fly where the current 777-200ERs fly.

The -300ER will take over for the routes where the First Class was deemed necessary. (GRU, LHR, and HKG).
 
pasu129
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 4:55 pm

How many 77W in total for AA fleet?
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jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 1):
The -300ER will take over for the routes where the First Class was deemed necessary. (GRU, LHR, and HKG).

77W is used for HKG because it needs the range (technically 77E can do it but with major penalty)

Whether F is warranted on this particular route is debatable. The bulk of the paid F demand (JFK, LAX, etc) is already adequately served by CX.

just look at HKG-SYD : it will have zero nonstop flights with 3-class F once QF switches back to 744 this fall even though conventional wisdom would say that F is a guarantee success here
 
kaitak744
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 5:03 pm

13 77Ws plus 7 on order

3 more in 2014, 2 in 2015, and 2 in 2016.

Currently flown / announced routes on the 777-300ER:

LAX-LHR
3x JFK-LHR
DFW-LHR
JFK-GRU
DFW-GRU
DFW-HKG
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 5:09 pm

The reconfigured planes will begin on DFW-SCL in September 2014, and then eventually move to all 772 routes that do not become 77Ws.

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 4):
Currently flown / announced routes on the 777-300ER:

LAX-LHR
3x JFK-LHR
DFW-LHR
JFK-GRU
DFW-GRU
DFW-HKG

It is flown on MIA-LHR daily and begins MIA-GRU in November.
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AA767400
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 5:11 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
77W is used for HKG because it needs the range (technically 77E can do it but with major penalty)

Whether F is warranted on this particular route is debatable. The bulk of the paid F demand (JFK, LAX, etc) is already adequately served by CX.

Ok debbie AA downer. Whilst I agree somewhat - You have no facts whether DFW-HKG warrants F or not. The route has yet to start, so we shall see. I will agree that DFW-HKG, would have been better suited to start off as 787. Just to play it safe.

I'm sure you'll also have something negative to say about the retrofitted 772. Yet, not one has been retrofitted yet.

Apparently - the first retrofitted 772 will be out in August. We'll see if that holds true.
"The low fares airline."
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 5:32 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 6):
You have no facts whether DFW-HKG warrants F or not.

I said it's debatable. Which part of my post said there's no F demand ?

My point is that the biggest competition for paid F is not UA, but actually AA's own partner CX, esp since it's not a JV. Let's not pretend AA F is on the same level as CX F (which I have flown 3 times)

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 6):
I'm sure you'll also have something negative to say about the retrofitted 772. Yet, not one has been retrofitted yet.

We know it's gonna be 10-abreast, regardless of how much you want to spin that as a positive for the customer (unless you can prove that the savings will go back to the consumer [rather unlikely] instead of the airline's own bottom line [much more likely])
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 5:39 pm

When does the 4th JFK-LHR come back?

It is always claimed on a.net that is was stopped for the retrofits of the 777 and that it will be back soon...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 7):
We know it's gonna be 10-abreast, regardless of how much you want to spin that as a positive for the customer (unless you can prove that the savings will go back to the consumer [rather unlikely] instead of the airline's own bottom line [much more likely])

It's still just as a wide as a seat on a 737-800 or 757-200. 10-abreast in the 777 is now the norm. I'm not denying that 9-abreast isn't better - it certainly is - but 10-abreast isn't the disaster people love to claim, and like it or not all airlines will adapt it. UA already has adapted the 787 equivalent of 9 abreast.

Unlike other airlines, though, AA has 9-abreast in the front half of the coach cabin for elites and those who want to pay for more.
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jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
It's still just as a wide as a seat on a 737-800 or 757-200.

We're talking long haul flights here. Why are you comparing short-haul seating arrangements to this ?

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
10-abreast in the 777 is now the norm.

Not in the US or TPAC. Maybe a norm for airlines but as a consumer why should I sit in a narrower seat if the price isn't cheaper ?

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
UA already has adapted the 787 equivalent of 9 abreast.

9-abreast on 787 is a weeeeee bit wider than 10-abreast on 777 (by fractions of an inch), but that's a technicality. i admit i'm splitting hairs here.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):

Unlike other airlines, though, AA has 9-abreast in the front half of the coach cabin for elites and those who want to pay for more.

Huh? DL has EC and UA has E+ with roughly the same amount of legroom.

The only part unique about AA's offering is that oneworld alliance partner status is recognized for MCE, but that's a double edged sword because more MCE seats for partners may mean fewer seats for their own elites.
 
AA767400
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:10 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 7):
My point is that the biggest competition for paid F is not UA, but actually AA's own partner CX, esp since it's not a JV. Let's not pretend AA F is on the same level as CX F (which I have flown 3 times)

But CX doesn't fly DFW-HKG, nor does UA. What's your point? And who said AA's F is better than CX? We're discussing whether the route warrants F or not. Not how does it compare to other airlines. Hence why I feel you always have to state something negative, when there's no need to the specific topic.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 7):
We know it's gonna be 10-abreast, regardless of how much you want to spin that as a positive for the customer (unless you can prove that the savings will go back to the consumer [rather unlikely] instead of the airline's own bottom line [much more likely])

I rest my case. I never spun anything. I however knew you would bring something up. 10 across is the new norm. It's not comfortable. It's tight. It sucks. But guess what? It's the new normal. I never said it was peaches and cream. If said passenger wants 9 across, then they'll opt for whatever carrier has it. At the end of the day, it's about the numbers. People vote with their wallets. And it's proven that money talks, and the rest, well, you know.

This retrofit will be a plus in my opinion. Why? Because it will place AA at a competitive advantage against other carriers.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
It is always claimed on a.net that is was stopped for the retrofits of the 777 and that it will be back soon...

I don't think it's coming back to be honest. BA has flooded the market with serious amount of seats. Who knows.
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jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 11):
But CX doesn't fly DFW-HKG, nor does UA. What's your point? And who said AA's F is better than CX? We're discussing whether the route warrants F or not. Not how does it compare to other airlines. Hence why I feel you always have to state something negative, when there's no need to the specific topic.

Based on PDEW figures thrown around, something like 65-80% of this flight will be connections. That's where UA and CX will actually matter. If you re-read what I've said, actually I was discussing whether AA's specific flight warrant F, not whether the route warrant F. Same thing with ORD-NRT - the route definitely warrants F, but if the F traffic isn't flowing to UA or AA's flight, then it doesn't warrant it.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 11):
10 across is the new norm. It's not comfortable. It's tight. It sucks. But guess what? It's the new normal.
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 11):
This retrofit will be a plus in my opinion. Why? Because it will place AA at a competitive advantage against other carriers.

It puts AA the airline at an advantage, but I don't see how you as a passenger would love any of it. Have you ever flown 10-abreast on a 777 yourself ? I have on JFK-CDG and it was absolutely miserable and that's only 7 hrs. Can't imagine what 16hrs of that would feel like.

Lower comfort ? definitely
Lower prices ? no guarantee
Higher revenue for AA ? most probably
Any of that extra revenue directly going to your wallet? Not really unless you're a shareholder.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 11):
People vote with their wallets. And it's proven that money talks, and the rest, well, you know.

So you'll vote with your wallet for 10-abreast even if competitor prices are the same ?
 
commavia
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Thread starter):
Where will the retrofitted AA 772 fly?

Probably just about everywhere the present 777s fly, plus probably some existing AA 767 markets and at least a few USAirways routes (PHL-LHR and CLT-LHR come to mind immediately).

There is going to be a great deal of churn and change in AA's longhaul fleet in the next few years as lots of new 787s, 777s, A330s and A350s arrive and 767s exit. Personally, I expect that some existing 777 routes (mainly Asia) will eventually go to the 787 to take advantage of that aircraft's better economics over those longer stage lengths. I can also see 787s and A330s/A350s replacing lots of the existing 767 flying, plus, again, also some shifting of present 777 and 767 routes. I also think we're going to see an increasing amount of seasonal "shift," with even more 777s to Europe in the summer, and to South America in the winter (swapping with smaller 787s and/or A330s off-season).

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 11):
Because it will place AA at a competitive advantage against other carriers.

  

And that's what really matters to AA (and all the other airlines, and other profit-seeking publicly-traded corporations) - the bottom line, and delivering returns to shareholders. Going to 10-abreast is going to substantially improve the economics of those 777s (as well replacing the present F/J layout with the dramatically improved J configuration).

Personally, assuming there isn't a perceptible customer backlash (in terms of book-away and/or lost seat and/or revenue share), I suspect it's only a matter of time before Delta and United follow suit.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 12):
So you'll vote with your wallet for 10-abreast even if competitor prices are the same ?

Again - I'm not sure customers are going to have much choice for much longer. It seems - at least as of now - clear that 10-abreast is, however uncomfortable, the new standard. The airlines that switch to it are going to have an economic advantage over those that don't, and for that reason alone I suspect it will ultimately be adopted pretty much industry-wide - at least in the U.S.
 
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 10):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
Unlike other airlines, though, AA has 9-abreast in the front half of the coach cabin for elites and those who want to pay for more.
Huh? DL has EC and UA has E+ with roughly the same amount of legroom.

No, I'm referring to how AA configured it's cabin to others that went with 10-abreast. AA is the only one, IIRC, to also offer a 9-abreast cabin.

Similarly, it's 787s are rumored to have 8-abreast in the MCE section, as opposed to UA which keeps it 9 abreast with extra legroom.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 10):
Not in the US or TPAC. Maybe a norm for airlines but as a consumer why should I sit in a narrower seat if the price isn't cheaper ?

99.999999999% of consumers don't care/notice, which is why airlines are doing it. Even ANA is switching to 10 abreast.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
When does the 4th JFK-LHR come back?

It is always claimed on a.net that is was stopped for the retrofits of the 777 and that it will be back soon...

"Claimed" by A.net? American Airlines itself said it is coming back.

"As always, we must remain agile in our operations so we can succeed in an ever-changing market. Our 2014 operating plan requires some strategic adjustments, including an agreement to temporarily transition one daily New York/JFK-London/Heathrow flight to British Airways so we can consistently offer a fully lie-flat product in all of the premium cabins, meeting the demands of our customers and putting us in a position to better compete with the recently approved joint venture between Delta and Virgin Atlantic. This transition of one daily flight is temporary until we retrofit our fleet of 777-200s with fully lie-flat seats – an upgrade sure to please our people and customers alike."

It's coming back. Why does that fact upset you so much?

And I wouldn't be surprised if, as more 772 retrofits/77Ws arrive, AA takes over another BA frequency or two so BA can use those frames to expand to Asia as it is planning with the bmi slots.

[Edited 2014-05-22 11:35:53]
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Delta777Jet
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:36 pm

What about Frankfurt? They started the 772 again because there was a F Demand and the 763 did not have a First Class. Will FRA see the 77W as well or are they installing some 772 with First Class?
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MAH4546
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 15):
What about Frankfurt? They started the 772 again because there was a F Demand and the 763 did not have a First Class. Will FRA see the 77W as well or are they installing some 772 with First Class?

Nobody knows yet.

The 772s will all lose F.

The 788s will not have F, but I hear the 789s might have an F cabin.
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jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
Again - I'm not sure customers are going to have much choice for much longer. It seems - at least as of now - clear that 10-abreast is, however uncomfortable, the new standard. The airlines that switch to it are going to have an economic advantage over those that don't, and for that reason alone I suspect it will ultimately be adopted pretty much industry-wide - at least in the U.S.

Supposedly, the 777-8/9 will have a slightly widened cabin internal, so 10-abreast is a little more tolerable

Customers will still have a choice of 9-abreast 777 foreign operators as well as those flying 330s, 350s, 380s etc. DL will still have their 767s and 330s for at least another 10 years so that's plenty of choices. UA will have some 350-1000s coming online.

A smart shopper will clearly have choices. The kayaker, however, will be duped.
 
commavia
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 17):
A smart shopper will clearly have choices. The kayaker, however, will be duped.

That's your prediction. AA clearly has a different prediction. Only time will tell who is right.

If AA can derive a minimal (even just 1%) CASM advantage as a result of 10-abreast, and Delta and United fail to extract any meaningful revenue advantage over AA (i.e., get away with charging a higher base fare for an extra inch of seat-width), then all else being equal, AA wins. But of course that won't happen for long, because if that happens, Delta and United will very quickly change their 777s to 10-abreast, too - they won't allow their largest competitor to derive that type of financial advantage over them.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 6:57 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 7):
We know it's gonna be 10-abreast, regardless of how much you want to spin that as a positive for the customer (unless you can prove that the savings will go back to the consumer [rather unlikely] instead of the airline's own bottom line [much more likely])

FYI Mogando, the AA 77W seat width is 17"

That is approximately the same as:

Air New Zealand 77W in Y (17.1)
Asiana 744 and 772 in Y (17.2 and 17)
China Airlines 744 and A330 in Y (17)
China Eastern 346 in Y (17.2)
China Southern 772, 787, 330 and 388 in y (17.2)
Delta 744 and 757 intra-Asia (17.2)
Emirates 77L and 77W (17)
Hainan 787 (17)
PAL A330 and A340 (17)
Qantas A330 and 767 (17)
THAI 744 (17)
United 744 (17)

Who all fly TPAC (I threw EK in there just for kicks)
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 18):
That's your prediction. AA clearly has a different prediction. Only time will tell who is right.

If AA can derive a minimal (even just 1%) CASM advantage as a result of 10-abreast, and Delta and United fail to extract any meaningful revenue advantage over AA (i.e., get away with charging a higher base fare for an extra inch of seat-width), then all else being equal, AA wins. But of course that won't happen for long, because if that happens, Delta and United will very quickly change their 777s to 10-abreast, too - they won't allow their largest competitor to derive that type of financial advantage over them.

Choices aren't limited to AA/DL/UA. If the AA-JL JV forces prices to align, I'll take the JL one any day of the week if possible, even if DL/UA goes 10-abreast.

I really don't see how a CASM advantage to an airline is beneficial to me at all as a consumer. The last time I flew 10-abreast on AF only because they're quoting $650 while everyone else is quoting $1200. For that amount of savings, I'll put up with the pain. I view this as - no gain ? then no pain.

And if airlines claim that consumers are purely price conscious and don't care about comfort in Y at all, why not go all the way and do 29" legroom as well ? That would be a real CASM king that puts charter airlines to shame.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
Going to 10-abreast is going to substantially improve the economics of those 777s (as well replacing the present F/J layout with the dramatically improved J configuration).

  

Air Canada recently announced that the extra legroom product on their 77Ws on select transoceanic routes helped grow yields and revenues in Q1 by 7% and 0.7%, respectively, and that the market had responded favorably to them. AC also said that the unit cost scale achieved by sending higher density 77Ws on routes like YVRHKG were favorable.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 17):
DL will still have their 767s and 330s for at least another 10 years so that's plenty of choices. UA will have some 350-1000s coming online.

There will be more attributes that contribute to the outcome of the consumers' decision other than mere seat width of the aircraft. In situations where you're dealing with a Y passenger anyways, it will also matter less than a premium customer.

A good case study a year from now will be evaluating the performances of Air Canada from Western Canada to Asia (over YVR) vs. Delta from the Pacific Northwest/Canada to Asia over SEA. You have one operator sending 767s and A330s across the pond to PEK, PVG, ICN, HKG and TYO while the other sends 77Ws and 767s.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 20):
I really don't see how a CASM advantage to an airline is beneficial to me at all as a consumer.

Because it allows airlines to better compete and enter new markets - you as a consumer gain more choices in terms of routes, with leads to more capacity and healthier competition and keeps prices in check.

And, by the way, 10 abreast on a 777 is just about as wide as a regular 747 configuration. So you're avoiding the 747s, too, right?
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YouGeeElWhy
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 20):
Choices aren't limited to AA/DL/UA. If the AA-JL JV forces prices to align, I'll take the JL one any day of the week if possible, even if DL/UA goes 10-abreast.

I really don't see how a CASM advantage to an airline is beneficial to me at all as a consumer. The last time I flew 10-abreast on AF only because they're quoting $650 while everyone else is quoting $1200. For that amount of savings, I'll put up with the pain. I view this as - no gain ? then no pain.

And if airlines claim that consumers are purely price conscious and don't care about comfort in Y at all, why not go all the way and do 29" legroom as well ? That would be a real CASM king that puts charter airlines to shame.

OP asked about where the retrofitted 772s fly. Why are you flooding this thread with talk of DL vs UA vs AA, JL, 10 abreast, AF, 29" legroom, AF, CX F, $650, etc etc etc?

There are times where I wish this forum had more heavy handed mods to keep these useless comments out of every thread.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 22):
And, by the way, 10 abreast on a 777 is just about as wide as a regular 747 configuration. So you're avoiding the 747s, too, right?

They're absolutely not the same in terms of passenger comfort. Those who have flown both configs can clearly tell, unlike some online stats that claim they're identical.

The 777 cabin is narrower than the 747. How can possible fit the same 10 seats in both unless you shrink the aisles to absolutely unusable widths ?

Quoting irishayes (Reply 19):
Air New Zealand 77W in Y (17.1)
Asiana 744 and 772 in Y (17.2 and 17)
China Airlines 744 and A330 in Y (17)
China Eastern 346 in Y (17.2)
China Southern 772, 787, 330 and 388 in y (17.2)
Delta 744 and 757 intra-Asia (17.2)
Emirates 77L and 77W (17)
Hainan 787 (17)
PAL A330 and A340 (17)
Qantas A330 and 767 (17)
THAI 744 (17)
United 744 (17)

What kind of meaningless stats are these? seatguru.com ? You honesty claim 8-abreast on 330 is equivalent to 10-abreast on 77W ? Go do some actual flying instead of relying on junk facts on the internet. Seatguru is as reliable a source as wikipedia or Skytrax.
 
SCL767
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 5):
The reconfigured planes will begin on DFW-SCL in September 2014, and then eventually move to all 772 routes that do not become 77Ws.

AA initially planned on deploying the reconfigured 772 on the DFW-SCL route 3x weekly starting next month. The GDS now shows the 763 operating the route year-round. The non-stop/direct flights between the U.S. and Chile are heavily booked for the next few months and IMO more capacity needs to be added for the upcoming high season. Perhaps we'll have to wait till November for the reconfigured 772 to be deployed on the DFW-SCL route. Too bad UA can't compete in the Chilean market.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 19):
FYI Mogando, the AA 77W seat width is 17"

Good one  .
 
AA767400
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 12):
Have you ever flown 10-abreast on a 777 yourself ? I have on JFK-CDG and it was absolutely miserable and that's only 7 hrs. Can't imagine what 16hrs of that would feel like.

Yes. EK JFK-DXB, NZ LAX-LHR, AA JFK-LHR. All in Y. And I'm 6'3. I know what it feels like.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 12):
Higher revenue for AA ? most probably

Glad you agree.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 12):
So you'll vote with your wallet for 10-abreast even if competitor prices are the same ?

IF there's a competitor that doesn't have 10 abreast on the same route, then I MIGHT opt for that. Factors include alliance, miles, status. But that's a knowledgeable traveler. Otherwise, see below :

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 14):
99.999999999% of consumers don't care/notice, which is why airlines are doing it. Even ANA is switching to 10 abreast.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 20):

The last time I flew 10-abreast on AF only because they're quoting $650 while everyone else is quoting $1200. For that amount of savings, I'll put up with the pain. I view this as - no gain ? then no pain.

And there you have it. You voted with your wallet. You put up with the pain, to save money. Just like the majority of the traveling public. Who gains? The company. It is, what it is.
"The low fares airline."
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 19):
That is approximately the same as:

Air New Zealand 77W in Y (17.1)
Asiana 744 and 772 in Y (17.2 and 17)
China Airlines 744 and A330 in Y (17)
China Eastern 346 in Y (17.2)
China Southern 772, 787, 330 and 388 in y (17.2)
Delta 744 and 757 intra-Asia (17.2)
Emirates 77L and 77W (17)
Hainan 787 (17)
PAL A330 and A340 (17)
Qantas A330 and 767 (17)
THAI 744 (17)
United 744 (17)

Who all fly TPAC (I threw EK in there just for kicks)

This list is HUGELY flawed.

TG doesn't fly 744 TPAC, neither does PAL with their 330 or CZ with their 330s or CI with 330s. QF no longer crosses the Pacific to the US lower48 with their 330s ever since AKL-LAX cancelled

OZ 772 is 9-abreast but you claim it's the same 17" as AA, so according to you, you can gain a free seat without shrinking anything. And according to you, NZ 10-abreast at 17.1" is actually WIDER than OZ 9-abreast at 17.0". Asiana must have REALLY wide aisles geeez.

I rest my case when the "facts" presented aren't even remotely close to reality.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:51 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 12):
Based on PDEW figures thrown around, something like 65-80% of this flight will be connections

Thats true, but thats about the same as ORD-HKG given the capacity. UA and CX fly ORD-HKG 17x a week which means those flights need about 75% connections.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 7:55 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 17):
A smart shopper will clearly have choices. The kayaker, however, will be duped.

The "smart shopper" is likely already an elite or a high value customer that already has access to MCE(or premium classes) making it a moot point. Ma and Pa Kettle on their once in a lifetime trip to London aren't going to care.
PHX based
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Thread starter):
And if there are any reviews already on the backward facing J seats?

I didn't realize AA's retrofitted 777-200s would feature backward facing J seats. The seat map on Seatguru doesn't indicate backwards facing seats.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 26):
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 20):

The last time I flew 10-abreast on AF only because they're quoting $650 while everyone else is quoting $1200. For that amount of savings, I'll put up with the pain. I view this as - no gain ? then no pain.

And there you have it. You voted with your wallet. You put up with the pain, to save money. Just like the majority of the traveling public. Who gains? The company. It is, what it is.

If savings are huge, then it might be worth it. But whether AF actually "gained" or not is unclear because they sold me a 8.9cpm ticket before you subtract out all the taxes and fees, so that's probably close to 7.6cpm into their pocket.

650 x 10 x 80% LF = $5200
1200 x 9 x 60% LF = $6480

My anecdotal scenario was *obviously* not a typical one, but you can see that the other airlines can earn more total revenue even with a much lower load factor.

For what it's worth, my routing was AF JFK-CDG-MUC vs. LH JFK-MUC nonstop
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2489
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 8:16 pm

Quoting 777stl (Reply 29):
Ma and Pa Kettle on their once in a lifetime trip to London aren't going to care.

Yet, ironically, they are they ones who complain the most..
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 8:16 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 27):
TG doesn't fly 744 TPAC, neither does PAL with their 330 or CZ with their 330s or CI with 330s. QF no longer crosses the Pacific to the US lower48 with their 330s ever since AKL-LAX cancelled

Many of these planes to go trans-Pacific to Hawai'i.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 27):
OZ 772 is 9-abreast but you claim it's the same 17" as AA, so according to you, you can gain a free seat without shrinking anything. And according to you, NZ 10-abreast at 17.1" is actually WIDER than OZ 9-abreast at 17.0". Asiana must have REALLY wide aisles geeez.

Actually, some of Asiana 777s (the ones with the new First Suites) do indeed have 17" width in coach.
a.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 30):
I didn't realize AA's retrofitted 777-200s would feature backward facing J seats. The seat map on Seatguru doesn't indicate backwards facing seats.

Indeed. It's their way of increasing shoulder width and total per seat personal space over the standard Cirrus design.

It's a very innovative design indeed.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1772
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 30):
I didn't realize AA's retrofitted 777-200s would feature backward facing J seats. The seat map on Seatguru doesn't indicate backwards facing seats.

I'm also wondering the same thing. Don't remember hearing about backward J either.
 
wn676
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 35):
I'm also wondering the same thing. Don't remember hearing about backward J either.

On the AA site regarding the retrofit they do mention the rear-facing J seats:

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing-777-200-retrofit.jsp

You can the back of the other seat over the partition:

http://www.aa.com/content/images/abo...ricans-new-business-class-seat.jpg
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
Actually, some of Asiana 777s (the ones with the new First Suites) do indeed have 17" width in coach.

link please.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 9:44 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 37):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33): Actually, some of Asiana 777s (the ones with the new First Suites) do indeed have 17" width in coach.
link please.
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Asiana/Asiana_Boeing_777-200_ER_E.php
a.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 9:48 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 22):
And, by the way, 10 abreast on a 777 is just about as wide as a regular 747 configuration. So you're avoiding the 747s, too, right?

I believe the 747 cabin is roughly 7" wider. That makes a noticeable difference. I've never had a problem with 10-abreast 747s which have been the norm for 40 years.

If a 10-abeast 777 was considered "about as wide" as the 747, all 777s would have been 10-abreast since the type went into service almost 20 years ago.

[Edited 2014-05-22 14:53:40]
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 38):

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Asiana/Asiana_Boeing_777-200_ER_E.php

I don't believe those figures are validated, verified, or even official. There are threads on FT talking about the inconsistencies they spot on seatguru.com.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Thu May 22, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 40):
I don't believe those figures are validated, verified, or even official. There are threads on FT talking about the inconsistencies they spot on seatguru.com.

Agree. I largely ignore seatguru data. It's based on what the carriers provide and there's no consistent measurement system, e.g. does seat width include the armrests or is it measured between armrests, does it include the gap between the seats? I've also noticed many errors.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 32):

Yet, ironically, they are they ones who complain the most..

They're not complaining when they're paying $50 less at the POS on Expedia.
PHX based
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 1:03 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):

It's great to see someone with logic and reason in this forum. Welcome to my respected users list.
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4501
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 2:12 am

Quoting pasu129 (Thread starter):
Where will the retrofitted AA 772 fly?

One thing that I'm not sure of is whether they'll keep the 772 flying on MIA-LAX-MIA. I certainly hope they do, as I go out of my way to book that flight every time I have to visit LA.

Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 23):
There are times where I wish this forum had more heavy handed mods to keep these useless comments out of every thread.

I'm surprised they haven't acted yet - they're usually pretty good at keeping the topics on track..

JetBlue1965 here's a suggestion: Why don't you create a new topic where you can debate all this seat width stuff? You are actually allowed to create your own topics you know.  
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9213
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RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 2:21 am

Anybody care to speculate how the ex-US 332/333s might be utilized on current 772 routes or vice versa?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 2:33 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 44):
One thing that I'm not sure of is whether they'll keep the 772 flying on MIA-LAX-MIA. I certainly hope they do, as I go out of my way to book that flight every time I have to visit LA.

It's likely not going anywhere.

Firstly, it's how LAX-PVG gets it 777.

Secondly, AA has a cargo contract to approximately 22,000 pounds of live lobster daily to Miami, and that's it needs the 772s belly to get it there. So as long as that contract lives, so does the 777 on this route.

There will always be widebodies between the two cities as long as there is cargo.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 40):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 38):
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Asiana/Asiana_Boeing_777-200_ER_E.php
I don't believe those figures are validated, verified, or even official. There are threads on FT talking about the inconsistencies they spot on seatguru.com.

Then feel free to prove it wrong by finding data that contradicts. I find it to be very reliable.

[Edited 2014-05-22 19:35:37]
a.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 2:48 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 46):

Because they're so illogical it doesn't pass a smell test

According to seatguru, NZ 10 abreast has wider seats than OZ 9-abreast

How can you trust a site at all when 1+1 doesn't even equal 2?

Their seat maps, on the other hand, are of higher quality. I give them credit for that.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26510
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 2:50 am

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 47):
How can you trust a site at all when 1+1 doesn't even equal 2?

Aisles can be wider, simple as that.
a.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Where Will The Retrofitted AA 772 Fly?

Fri May 23, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 48):

The cabin is 231in wide

17x9 is only 153. That leaves 39" width for each aisle. Does that sound right at all ?

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