CALMSP
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UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Fri May 23, 2014 9:29 pm

Finally made public today. The DXB-DOH tag ends August 30. Honestly surprised it lasted this long. However, I did think UA would put the 788 in the market before closing all together.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Fri May 23, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Thread starter):
Finally made public today. The DXB-DOH tag ends August 30. Honestly surprised it lasted this long. However, I did think UA would put the 788 in the market before closing all together.

Honestly the flights almost 3 hours at least extra on the trip to IAD, and the trip to DXB is actually backtracking on that logic.
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c680
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Fri May 23, 2014 10:20 pm

Add the fact that Qatar runs their own non-stop IAD-DOH and the UA flight doesn't make much sense.
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atcsundevil
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Fri May 23, 2014 10:46 pm

It's hard competing with a nonstop, but I imagine the route was totally supported by US government traffic, similar to the KWI-BAH flight. The difference there is that those flying BAH-US can do so more conveniently on UA, in addition to capturing the government traffic. Although, I'm surprised the BAH flight is still around while DOH is going away, because when I've flown IAD-BAH, its had pretty light loads. I think IAD-KWI-BAH is a good 788 candidate over cancellation provided it supports more of the government traffic than apparently DOH managed.
 
UA444
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Fri May 23, 2014 11:11 pm

Wasn't this tag a way to generate revenue with the 777 which would just sit idle at DXB?
 
goldenstate
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Fri May 23, 2014 11:24 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 4):
Wasn't this tag a way to generate revenue with the 777 which would just sit idle at DXB?

Pointless exercise if it is not margin accretive.
 
catiii
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting CALMSP (Thread starter):

I think it will come back at some point on the 788.

Quoting c680 (Reply 2):

Does any US carrier have its code on the QR service? If not I don't believe it can be sold for government travel under the GSA Fly America provisions.
 
hohd
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 4:21 am

UA removed the codeshare when they discontinued the frequent flyer relationship with QR.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 4:44 am

Also look for IAD-DXB to be retimed back to late evening departure again from IAD to allow for better/later in day connections from across the US at IAD.

Quoting catiii (Reply 6):
I think it will come back at some point on the 788.

I doubt it.

Quoting catiii (Reply 6):
Does any US carrier have its code on the QR service? If not I don't believe it can be sold for government travel under the GSA Fly America provisions.

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Qatara340
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 8:15 am

Add to the facts that UA did not even spend one penny marking their flights here. NOBODY knows that UA flies to Qatar.
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klwright69
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 9:05 am

I saw the UA 777 in DOH a few weeks ago. I went to the gate and saw it boarding, only a few people there.

It is a bit of a strange flight. It is backtracking from DXB. Lots of competition to DOH with nonstops from the USA.

The difference with BAH is that there are no nonstops to the USA. And the flight does not backtrack from KWI.

US military presence in BAH and access to eastern Saudi Arabia seem to be enough to do the trick. BAH seems to be working out. There is easy access to BAH with the bridge from Saudi Arabia.
 
airway1
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 9:29 am

United doesn't spend on advertising here at all. I have flown the flight to Bahrain. It's cheaper and a better flight the gulf or jazeera but again most don't know about it.
 
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RWA380
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 10:29 am

Quoting c680 (Reply 2):

Add the fact that Qatar runs their own non-stop IAD-DOH and the UA flight doesn't make much sense

UA is too spread out, trying to make Africa, Asia, S America, Australia, Europe and North America all work at the same time. UA needs to focus on making what is currently working even better, then expanding as they master the craft.
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klwright69
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):

Quoting c680 (Reply 2):

Add the fact that Qatar runs their own non-stop IAD-DOH and the UA flight doesn't make much sense

UA is too spread out, trying to make Africa, Asia, S America, Australia, Europe and North America all work at the same time. UA needs to focus on making what is currently working even better, then expanding as they master the craft.

You are making a sweeping statement. They are closing DOH. A tiny station with no nonstop service to the USA. You mention Africa and Australia as if it's somehow related. Maybe UA should stop flying to LOS and SYD even though they're profitable, in order to not be so spread out? Why stop there? They should drop all these continents you mention to be more concentrated, since they can't handle it according to you.
 
flyboy_se
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 1:17 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 13):
They are closing DOH. A tiny station with no nonstop service to the USA

Only if you dont count nonstops from DOH to JFK, ORD, IAH, IAD, PHL and soon DFW and MIA  
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Qatara340
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 1:48 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 13):
They are closing DOH. A tiny station with no nonstop service to the USA

TINY is when 23 million passengers fly through it every year??
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
jasoncrh
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 2:39 pm

vast majority of those travelers are merely transit travelers on QR. UA would have no access to those passengers, for the most part. and even then, the actual local market to/ from DOH is tiny. not huge enough to support the UA flight. oh well. moving on.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 15):
TINY is when 23 million passengers fly through it every year??
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 2:43 pm

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 14):

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 13):
They are closing DOH. A tiny station with no nonstop service to the USA

Only if you dont count nonstops from DOH to JFK, ORD, IAH, IAD, PHL and soon DFW and MIA  

Umm, he's referring to the fact the DOH flight on UA isn't non-stop to the USA.
 
jayunited
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 3:28 pm

This doesn't surprise me at all, this tag on was started because UA had a contract with the government and according to what UA posted on Flying Together; QR now has that contract thru their codeshare with AA to provided nonstop service to DOH and the codeshare covers the requirement for a US flagged carrier. It has been pointed out many many times here on A.netters that a nonstop flight beats a connection everyday. Even the government wants nonstop flights when one airline can't or won't provide that nonstop the government turned to an airline that does provide the service QR thru a codeshare with AA.

It is amazing UA admits on Flying Together that there is growing demand for service to DOH from the US and it is obvious from QR's expansion that they are responding to the demand for travel to DOH. But what i found strange is UA admits there is growth in this market but yet they decided not to start their own nonstop flight from IAD and I have to wonder why? Especially if starting a nonstop would have meant thatUA would have kept the government contract. UA admits that the IAd-DXB flights continually meets expectation and is profitable and we all know EK is on the IAD-DXB route as well so why not start IAD-DOH and take on QR especially if you have a government contract backing you up? It really strange that UA decided to walk away instead of giving the nonstop a shot.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 3:39 pm

For UA to simply stop the route rather than try to non-stop speaks to a lack of a/c suited to the route. The 772ER is likely too big and/or not efficient enough. The 767 doesn't have the legs and there are not enough 788/789s. Might it also be possible that AA won the government contract outright? I'm not familar with the process but its possible that even with a n/s, UA might not have won the renewal of the contract.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 6:13 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Thread starter):
The DXB-DOH tag ends August 30. Honestly surprised it lasted this long
Quoting c680 (Reply 2):
Add the fact that Qatar runs their own non-stop IAD-DOH and the UA flight doesn't make much sense.

The tag only marginally made any sense. Once the non-stop was launched, there went the non-government traffic.

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 5):
Pointless exercise if it is not margin accretive.
Quoting jayunited (Reply 18):
But what i found strange is UA admits there is growth in this market but yet they decided not to start their own nonstop flight from IAD and I have to wonder why?

Long term I expect a 788 non-stop.

For I agree wholeheartedly with:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 19):
For UA to simply stop the route rather than try to non-stop speaks to a lack of a/c suited to the route. The 772ER is likely too big and/or not efficient enough. The 767 doesn't have the legs and there are not enough 788/789s.

I think it is a lack of 788/789s. This is a perfect route to start such service.

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strfyr51
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 7:08 pm

at this point we have 10 788's We can't fly Everywhere everybody want's or thinks we should go with 10 airplanes in that Class.
it also falls to logistics. If an airplane breaks in DOH it might be 10 Hours before the nearest Maint. Crew from
London can get there. And to have ExPats there is cost prohibitive.
if you've ever had to deal with Local mechanics in DOH from a Phone in Chicago?
You might realize what I'm talking about. We've investigated al LOT of scenarios.
But placing non-diplomat Mechanics in DOH or any other ME country right now??
I recommend this. If you think that's such a good idea? Then You Do it !!
I've worked all over the world But I WON'T be going to the ME anytime soon. Not in the present climate.
This "infidel" will be staying Right here in the Good Old USA..
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 7:41 pm

strfyr51 - Your slights against people of certain creeds aside, it sounds like UA doesn't have enough a/c. I don't buy the maintenance thing. QR ofc is based in DOH and has a large 787 fleet. With a bit of diplomacy and reciprocity of maintenance for QR a/c in UA cities in the states, it could happen.
 
mozart
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 9:07 pm

strfyr51, you are of course entitled to your simplistic view of other parts of the world (too much FOX?).

But what I don't understand is the argument about maintenance logistics. If a 787 breaks down in DOH, it's 10 hours for the next MX from London to come there. Understood. But when a 777 breaks down in DOH, isn't it also 10 hours from London? Or do you have MX in places closer to DOH? Or do you collaborate with QR, who have many 777s and a full maintenance in DOH? But then they also have 787s, so I am not sure what is behind your reasoning. Thanks for clarifying.
 
COPolynesianPub
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sat May 24, 2014 10:21 pm

I wonder if the final decision to cut the tag from DXB had anything to do with operating costs/landing fees at the new DOH?
 
jasoncrh
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sun May 25, 2014 1:19 pm

If there were money to be made on the route and UA thought DOH was the best use of its aircraft (guaranteeing it the best return on its assets), then UA would find a way to make all of the logistics work. The fact that they are not tells me that UA has determined it can do better more profitable things with its aircraft than either fly a nonstop to DOH or fly a tag from DXB.

as far as your concerns about safety in the ME, i'm american and am living and working in the ME right now, and besides the heat, there's no problem here right now. I'm not in one of the countries where there is a problem (syria, Iran, Yemen,etc), but in many of the countries as an american or other westerner you would have absolutely no personal safety issues whatsoever. Move past stereotypes and learn what's really going on before you say things that just aren't accurate.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 21):

at this point we have 10 788's We can't fly Everywhere everybody want's or thinks we should go with 10 airplanes in that Class.
it also falls to logistics. If an airplane breaks in DOH it might be 10 Hours before the nearest Maint. Crew from
London can get there. And to have ExPats there is cost prohibitive.
if you've ever had to deal with Local mechanics in DOH from a Phone in Chicago?
You might realize what I'm talking about. We've investigated al LOT of scenarios.
But placing non-diplomat Mechanics in DOH or any other ME country right now??
I recommend this. If you think that's such a good idea? Then You Do it !!
I've worked all over the world But I WON'T be going to the ME anytime soon. Not in the present climate.
This "infidel" will be staying Right here in the Good Old USA..
 
iluv747400
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sun May 25, 2014 1:19 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 3):
I imagine the route was totally supported by US government traffic

I think people are significantly over-emphasizing the amount of government traffic that UA was capturing. AA, not UA, has the GSA contract for government employees traveling between Washington and DOH. UA does have the contracts from a number of other U.S. cities, but they only totaled about 10,200 passengers in FY 2013, meaning just 28 passengers per day - definitely not enough to say that U.S. government traffic supported the route.

U.S. government contractors, on the other hand, might also be supporting the flight (they just have to abide by "Fly America"), but they could just as easily be taking QR via it's codeshare with AA.
 
EricR
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sun May 25, 2014 1:42 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 10):

US military presence in BAH and access to eastern Saudi Arabia seem to be enough to do the trick. BAH seems to be working out. There is easy access to BAH with the bridge from Saudi Arabia.

I am skeptical about both BAH and KWI. Both destinations are on the small side. I don't think government traffic on these routes are anything close to what they once used to be. In addition, unlike DOH for QR, there is no connectivity on the BAH nor KWI side for UA.
 
iluv747400
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sun May 25, 2014 4:41 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 27):
I am skeptical about both BAH and KWI. Both destinations are on the small side. I don't think government traffic on these routes are anything close to what they once used to be.

BAH houses a large U.S. naval base. In FY 2013, there were 20,829 U.S. government employees traveling on GSA contract fares to BAH. That's about 57 per day. The largest numbers came from ORF, SAN, WAS, and TPA (in that order). UA has the contracts for all but WAS (which is held by AA).

KWI, which still has a large U.S. military presence, is a bit smaller and had only 16,897 U.S. government employees traveling (46 per day), but that's not counting everyone continuing on to BAH! WAS-KWI is by far the largest city pair and UA has the contract for it along with almost all of the others. Nonetheless, I am sure this is significantly reduced from the time when the U.S. still had a military presence in Iraq.
 
EricR
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Sun May 25, 2014 4:45 pm

Quoting iluv747400 (Reply 28):

Nonetheless, I am sure this is significantly reduced from the time when the U.S. still had a military presence in Iraq.

Yes, and this is my point. Looming defense budget cuts and reduced U.S. Military presence in the area due to the winding down of the Iraq war will impact the demand if it has not already done so.
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Mon May 26, 2014 4:15 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 29):
Yes, and this is my point. Looming defense budget cuts and reduced U.S. Military presence in the area due to the winding down of the Iraq war will impact the demand if it has not already done so

I'm pretty sure the US just doubled the size of Naval Support Activity Bahrain, and spent more than a half a billion dollars in the process. Its strategic importance and the ongoing Naval presence in the region (including the Horn of Africa) likely safeguards it from major DoD cuts. With the very recent investments made to the base, I think it's probaby here to stay for some time.
 
catiii
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Mon May 26, 2014 5:14 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 29):

Understand the point, but it isn't true. Aside from the recent massive expansion at Al-Udeid, we just made public a major joint operations center there as well (see here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/12/wo...litary-center-in-qatar.html?_r=0). Combine that with the recently (March) Fifth Fleet announcement of a $580 million base expansion in Bahrain, and the cuts just aren't there.
 
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RWA380
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Mon May 26, 2014 8:03 am

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 13):
You are making a sweeping statement. They are closing DOH. A tiny station with no nonstop service to the USA. You mention Africa and Australia as if it's somehow related. Maybe UA should stop flying to LOS and SYD even though they're profitable, in order to not be so spread out? Why stop there? They should drop all these continents you mention to be more concentrated, since they can't handle it according to you.

My "sweeping statement" (your words, not mine) were based on poor economic performance by UA globally. UA has tried to tackle some pretty long routes based on Government travel, considering the US presence in the middle east is winding down, just like the carriers that made good money transporting troops are now collapsing, UA is loosing the passengers that it built the route around. The fact QR/AA has the contract to DOH now, just proves UA is weaker than ever.

UAs problems are far greater than DOH and you know that, UA would be wise to be good or great, to a few destinations, than mediocre to many.

UA has a smaller % of the market share to SYD, as SYD is no longer the cash cow it used to be, with VA, DL, QF/AA & UA all flying to LAX.

So yes, performance in the Middle East or anywhere UA flies is most definitely related, especially when it's time for the earnings call. UA has been continuing to show each quarter "they can't handle it" against DL and now a leaner AA.  
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jayunited
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Mon May 26, 2014 2:24 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32):
The fact QR/AA has the contract to DOH now, just proves UA is weaker than ever.

How does it prove that UA is weaker than ever? From what was posted on flying together UA decided to walk away from the contract because at this time they were not willing to provide nonstop service from IAD to DOH. While at the same time admitting on flying together that demand for travel to DOH from the US continues to grow. When I first read it I found it strange that UA would make such an admission but after reading some opinions on this thread I understand why UA decided against a nonstop at this time and it comes down to this point which is UA does not have the right sized aircraft available which would be a 788. A route like this would probably require 2 frames and UA only has 10 so far. And since the government wanted a nonstop the only carrier providing that service was QR, hence the contract is now with QR thru a codeshare with AA.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32):
UA has a smaller % of the market share to SYD, as SYD is no longer the cash cow it used to be, with VA, DL, QF/AA & UA all flying to LAX.

SYD may not be the cash cow it once was but UA is still making money on the route especially now that UA is using the 772er and lets not forget that in a few months UA is launching LAX-MEL. So if UA was loosing so much money flying to Australia why expand to now offer nonstop service to MEL? The facts are AA does not service Australia with their own metal they depend on QF and DL only has one flight while UA has 2 soon to be 3 flights to Australia. Also facts are this UA is not afraid to cut international routes that are not performing financially (EWR-IST, EWR-EZE, SEA-NRT, NRT-BKK, NRT-HKG) just to name a few.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32):
So yes, performance in the Middle East or anywhere UA flies is most definitely related, especially when it's time for the earnings call. UA has been continuing to show each quarter "they can't handle it" against DL and now a leaner AA.

UA's problems are not with the international divisions in fact if you looked at the Q1 results you would see that UA performance was right in line with both AA and DL internationally. UA's problem is with the domestic division and that is where both AA and especially DL kicked UA butt. Internationally UA can handle it and is handling it against DL and the leaner AA however domestically it a total different story UA has to get its domestic house in order because both AA and DL are showing UA that you can make money on your domestic operations.
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Mon May 26, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 29):
Looming defense budget cuts and reduced U.S. Military presence in the area due to the winding down of the Iraq war will impact the demand if it has not already done so.

Also the end of U.S. military activities in Afghanistan scheduled for later this year.
 
b747400erf
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Mon May 26, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 29):
Looming defense budget cuts

What cuts? Congress is almost done passing a similar budget to last year. The wars are winding down but the budgets are staying high.
 
catiii
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RE: UA To Close DOH (tag From DXB)

Tue May 27, 2014 5:22 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):

As I mentioned in a previous post, the US military just made over $1 billion in investments in two military installations in Doha. There are no cutbacks in Qatar.

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