ANA787
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UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Fri May 23, 2014 10:11 pm

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...s_from_p.html#incart_more_business

Its been confirmed that these routes are gone from September 1, 2014. LAX is rumored to be axed as well.

SEA will no longer have star alliance feed from PDX.
 
rosskin92
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Fri May 23, 2014 10:57 pm

Has UA shrunk in PDX? I have seen pictures of them flying 757s and such in.
 
kwbl
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Fri May 23, 2014 11:10 pm

Its just amazing to me to see how United has been marginalized in the NW. They were dominant in PDX and SEA for so many years, and over the last 5-10 years have really lost that position. Without the local feed, which probably was not that substantial to begin with, I imagine PDX may lose a couple of the frequencies to the hubs. The LAX route is the most amazing one to me because of their large LAX presence - they've been serving this route for well over 50 (maybe 60) years and for most of that time, were the market leader. just shows their CRJs weren't gonna cut it. Very sad to see them march toward irrelevancy in the Pac NW.
 
UA444
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Fri May 23, 2014 11:13 pm

If Lax-pdx has been truly cut, they are absolutely pathetic. I can see cutting the oo e120 flights but not la-Portland.
 
Alias1024
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Fri May 23, 2014 11:20 pm

One of these is not like the other.

PDX - SEA/RDM/EUG are all pro rate markets. SkyWest takes the financial risk on these routes. LAX is flown under the CPA between OO and UA. Combined with other recent cuts, OO is really shrinking their west coast Brasilia pro rate flying.

I'd be shocked if PDX-LAX were cut.
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hiflyeras
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Fri May 23, 2014 11:24 pm

PDX-LAX is still showing 2x daily in September. Dropping that route (if the rumor is true) would be quite astounding and a total capitulation to AS and DL on the west coast. The time is right to strike if an airline is interested in making life miserable for UA. Would love to see AS up frequency SEA-IAH and start PDX-IAH asap.
 
Wingtips56
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Fri May 23, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
PDX-LAX is still showing 2x daily in September.

Check again next week; most often, the actual schedule change runs tend to occur after the fact of market change announcements.
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MAH4546
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 12:01 am

LAX-PDX ends September 19th. It should be removed from booking systems over the weekend.
a.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 12:21 am

This is not surprising at all. The flights must have been very profitable for skywest to have lasted this long, they really need to retire some brazilias. They have no replacements for that plane right now. Makes more sense to focus on hubs at this point with the brasilias. I wonder who can pick up these routes. I think too thin for a CRJ-200 sadly. AS/Horizon has no plane for these routes.
 
MAH4546
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 12:28 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 8):
I wonder who can pick up these routes. I think too thin for a CRJ-200 sadly. AS/Horizon has no plane for these routes.

The routes will still have non-stop service. AS flies them.
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capejet
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 12:34 am

I wonder if AS and UA will begin codesharing in the future. It seems like any easy way for UA to keep some service in select markets that it can not operate on its own any longer ( for example LAX-PDX).
 
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 12:40 am

UA leaving the PDX-LAX market, along with VX having already axed the route, is odd indeed.

There seems to be talk that AA will enter the market at some point and WN has already jumped into SAN-PDX and SAN-SEA so perhaps LAX-PDX seems inevitable as well.

So in a relatively short period of time, the competition for AS and DL in the market could indeed be very different.

bb
 
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting capejet (Reply 10):
I wonder if AS and UA will begin codesharing in the future. It seems like any easy way for UA to keep some service in select markets that it can not operate on its own any longer ( for example LAX-PDX).

I've wondered the same ever since AS and DL's relationship started getting adversarial. UA very much seemed to see AS as a nemesis in the NW, competing on many routes and bidding against each other for Horizon back in the 80s. I wonder if times are different now that US has largely retreated from the Pacific Northwest?
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 4:05 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 4):
PDX - SEA/RDM/EUG are all pro rate markets. SkyWest takes the financial risk on these routes. LAX is flown under the CPA between OO and UA. Combined with other recent cuts, OO is really shrinking their west coast Brasilia pro rate flying.

  

Everything to do with Skywest which takes the commercial risk on these flights.

I'd expect continued forthcoming changes as OO makes fleet adjustments.
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UALFAson
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 7):
LAX-PDX ends September 19th.

What a shocker! UA throws a junky regional jet (CRJ 200 sometimes, CR7 at best) on a long flight and is forced out of the market when consumers vote with their wallets and fly the competition instead.

It actually hurts to watch this once-great airline become a shell of its former self. I am saddened and embarrassed. And, despite my Premier status, have yet to fly them as a revenue passenger once this year because their product is so awful and I can't take their operational delays anymore.
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timpdx
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 4:34 am

Add me to the shocked list abandoning LAX-PDX. UA was once the 800lb gorilla of Pacific aviation not so long ago. Not that I would fly them with their inferior Tpac product, but still surprised to see a major route go. PDX-Eugene and such, well, that is NOT shocking at all .
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 5:18 am

PDXLAX has now officially been removed from the GDS.
a.
 
777ER
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 5:21 am

I wonder if UA would be happy to have the ATR42, Q200, Q300 or E135 as replacements for the E120s? All those aircraft operate already in the UA fleet, so getting more somewhere or from other markets shouldn't be a problem. E135 might not be a good replacement but there are spares parked up from AA
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 6:11 am

Quoting KWBL (Reply 2):
Very sad to see them march toward irrelevancy in the Pac NW.

I've lived in Seattle my entire 47 years. The last time I flew UA was SEA-SMF-LAX in like 1990. They've just been irrelevant many times, either by price, product, or schedule. Oh wellz.....

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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 6:29 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
E135 might not be a good replacement but there are spares parked up from AA

E135 would be terrible on these routes, financially. Good luck finding any used Q200/Q300's to run them, let alone a carrier to operate them. Commutair would be stretched so thin to operate any kind of west coast base. And to say that they could bring in an ATR42 is a joke. Cape Air runs those in Guam and they aren't coming stateside, ever. Heck, I'd be amazed to see a single new ATR42 sold in the US again, other than perhaps FedEx operations.

Quite frankly, there isn't anything in the 19-30 seat market these days. Is it because they aren't profitable with new aircraft? Or is the operating costs alone killing these markets? Sure, there is the DHC6-400, but it's much too slow for any real flying.

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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 6:56 am

I do not doubt this one bit. This has been a long time coming. UA no longer has the presence here in the NW. At one time UA dominated SEA & PDX, with non-stops to JFK, PDT, SLE, SLC, BOI, RNO, SMF, SAN & OAK to name a few. We used to have DC-8s & DC-10s flying the west coast, and D10s & 747s SEA-PDX-SEA.

In the thread about UA dropping SEA-NRT, I once again said that the EMB-120 days as UAX are limited, the end of summer makes perfect sense. I don't think anyone should be surprised. UA can move passengers to EUG or RDM via DEN or SFO. I doubt UA carries very many local fliers just from PDX.

As for PDX-LAX, (like VX) UA saw no value in running less than 2x daily on a route they are not going to win. UA smartly has bowed out of a battle and conceded to DL with no fight. I'd be nice if AA jumped on the route at some point soon.
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 8:07 am

PDX-LAX shows how the CRJ-200 & ERJ-135/145 are wrecking UA.

UA feels they can not compete with mainline aircraft, so they decide to fly an RJ. The RJ can carry all the high value traffic and UA just gives up on the low fare stuff that fills up all those mainline seats in coach.

But the high value traffic does not want to fly (for 2 hours+) in a tiny airplane with no First Class or even Economy+. They are high value and used to getting some perks.

So the High Value fliers that regularly fly this (or several now small RJ trips) chose a different way to go.

Now the RJ is just left flying the irregular business travelers. If they lower the fares to fill up the plane they get killed with the high cost of small RJ operations.

So now the route just gets cut.

If they could fly ERJ175s then customers would be happy. If they were all EXplus (ERJ175 or CRJ700) they probably could live with UA.

But an inferior product, typically with the current UA attitude, does not make a competitive product. A route UA has been flying forever (since 1969 - 5 mainline non-stop flights in 1972) bites the dust.
 
777ER
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 8:26 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 19):
to say that they could bring in an ATR42 is a joke. Cape Air runs those in Guam and they aren't coming stateside, ever. Heck, I'd be amazed to see a single new ATR42 sold in the US again, other than perhaps FedEx operations.

And your proof Cape Air will never come stateside is what? If United really wants to continue operating these routes then they will find a carrier and the required aircraft. Clearly UA doesn't see those routes as needing UA service. I only used those aircraft as an example based on what UA currently has operating for them. Heck if UA can find DH1's lying around then they would be a good replacement
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 10:24 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
And your proof Cape Air will never come stateside is what? If United really wants to continue operating these routes then they will find a carrier and the required aircraft. Clearly UA doesn't see those routes as needing UA service. I only used those aircraft as an example based on what UA currently has operating for them. Heck if UA can find DH1's lying around then they would be a good replacement

Honestly UA likely was happy with OO taking the risk on these flights, UAX lost it's domination in the Pacific Northwest decades ago. The PDX-SEA flights are few and far between considering the amount of AS flights, which are mostly connecting passengers onwards on AS or a mileage partner, UA dropped SEA-NRT/ANC flights, there is nothing to connect to any longer that can not be reached from PDX via other means on UA. We have the same cities to fly non-stop to including IAH, DEN, SFO, EWR, IAD, ORD.

UA does not have the loyalty of fliers up here, AS has driven UA off many of the routes they once were often the only carrier on at the time, inluding: RNO, SMF, BOI, PDT, SLE, EUG, MFR, SLC back in the 80s.

This makes SEA & PDX, just point to hub services, SEA-LAX being one exception. The cities UA is dropping from PDX can all be connected through SFO or DEN, I doubt there is much local NW fliers taking UA. Most would be on QX.

We fly frequently PDX-RDM to see my aging folks, we get a 25 minute flight, and we get the express TSA lane, From my place in the Pearl, we take the Streetcar to Lloyd center, then connect to MAX, even with check in and boarding with flight time, it still beats the 3.75 hour drive to get over there.

Plus going up over Mt Hood at 4000 feet pass levels, where snow is plentiful Nov-Apr. Instead of wrecking my all paid off BMW that I worked very hard for and on, I take a quick prop instead. Unfortunately the $49 fares we had been enjoying, will likely not be available with no competition.
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laca773
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 11:40 am

I'm not surprised. They haven't take the LAX-PDX market seriously since this went UAEx.
I see the same thing happening with LAX-SEA next. They do have a single mainline flight for the summer time, but the rest of the frequencies are flown with CRJ/CR7s. UAs product can't compete with AS, and DL.
 
777fan
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 12:50 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 21):

PDX-LAX shows how the CRJ-200 & ERJ-135/145 are wrecking UA.

UA feels they can not compete with mainline aircraft, so they decide to fly an RJ. The RJ can carry all the high value traffic and UA just gives up on the low fare stuff that fills up all those mainline seats in coach.

But the high value traffic does not want to fly (for 2 hours+) in a tiny airplane with no First Class or even Economy+. They are high value and used to getting some perks.

So the High Value fliers that regularly fly this (or several now small RJ trips) chose a different way to go.

Now the RJ is just left flying the irregular business travelers. If they lower the fares to fill up the plane they get killed with the high cost of small RJ operations.

So now the route just gets cut.

If they could fly ERJ175s then customers would be happy. If they were all EXplus (ERJ175 or CRJ700) they probably could live with UA.

But an inferior product, typically with the current UA attitude, does not make a competitive product. A route UA has been flying forever (since 1969 - 5 mainline non-stop flights in 1972) bites the dust.

Very well said. I've been flying UA since I can remember (35+ years) and have a "vintage" Mileage Plus number to boot (it begins with several zeroes and was issued in early 1983) but I'm to the point where I feel like I have zero equity, attachment or nostalgia for UA. I was optimistic about the CO merger in part because I thought it would infuse some much-needed customer service and enthusiasm; UA's BKK woes and morale issues are well documented. I also thought the merger might bring about the end - or at least diminish - some RJ flying and outsourcing but years into the reorganization, this doesn't appear to be happening fast enough, if at all.

UA apologists will point to the stock value and profit margins as reasons for pulling out of markets (valid points) but on the surface, UA appears to be conceding markets in a way that smacks of apathy, self-pity and self-loathing as if it's unable or unwilling to confront its competition or make bold moves designed shake up the market, if not its own workforce. How have we come to the point where UA is practically nonexistent in the Pacific Northwest and Southeast? Unreal.

777fan
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EricR
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 1:39 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):

PDX-LAX is still showing 2x daily in September. Dropping that route (if the rumor is true) would be quite astounding and a total capitulation to AS and DL on the west coast.
UA has made some cuts at LAX recently and this helps to explain how they are able to give up 4 gates in T6 to AA. The thread regarding the transfer of gates was removed yesterday, so I don't know if it was confidential information or removed because it was a rumor stated as fact.

[Edited 2014-05-24 06:45:50]
 
cschleic
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 1:42 pm

While UA doesn't have many connecting options in PDX from RDM or EUG, it's still a it to the smaller cities in terms of options and, certainly, fares. Hopefully routes from there to other hubs (SLC, LAX, etc.) will continue to grow so they have more options.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
There seems to be talk that AA will enter the market at some point and WN has already jumped into SAN-PDX and SAN-SEA so perhaps LAX-PDX seems inevitable as well.

I had missed these new WN routes. This is particularly interesting, and maybe just as important a development. For years and years, WN has flown from PDX and SEA to California, but only northern California.... SJC, OAK, SMF. Going further meant a connection, or selecting a one-stop (which I've often done). Jumping into southern California non-stop is a big deal, and the opportunity certainly is there.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 1:44 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 25):
and Southeast?

When was UA big in the Southeast?

Quoting ADent (Reply 21):
But an inferior product, typically with the current UA attitude, does not make a competitive product. A route UA has been flying forever (since 1969 - 5 mainline non-stop flights in 1972) bites the dust.

It's been all RJ and 2/day since at least 2008, so clearly it has struggled for a while. Plus VX barely lasted a year and DL is only back after a 4-5 year absence. I think it's safe to say if you're name is not AS, you're probably losing money in LAXPDX. That said, I don't know why you'd bother with a route for years with such a small, terrible schedule. Either get in with a decent pattern, or get out. Goes for a lot of UA domestic really...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
777fan
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 1:56 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
When was UA big in the Southeast?

Comparatively speaking, MIA through the early 1990s.

777fan
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MaverickM11
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 2:03 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 29):
Comparatively speaking, MIA through the early 1990s.

30deps/day? It was a bit like that LAXPDX schedule.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
rising
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 25):
UA apologists will point to the stock value and profit margins as reasons for pulling out of markets (valid points) but on the surface, UA appears to be conceding markets in a way that smacks of apathy, self-pity and self-loathing as if it's unable or unwilling to confront its competition or make bold moves designed shake up the market, if not its own workforce. How have we come to the point where UA is practically nonexistent in the Pacific Northwest and Southeast? Unreal.

I think your comment highlights a salient point about airline management and how it has changed- and how people on forums like this one typically respond.

Airlines for many decades were operated essentially as a hobby, with prestige routes, flying the biggest, fanciest planes, having the best amenities and perks, with the biggest network. The problem was, just as with everything in life, it came at a price. Now, thankfully, airlines are managed as a business.

The flip side of that though is sometimes decisions are made that make business sense, but frustrate a hobbyist or elite FF. One only needs to see the lively discussions here, and on other forums to see proof of that. I think it was Jeff Smisek who even said that he received literally 15,000 angry e-mails when the airline chose the globe livery. Airlines are a nostalgia industry and invoke a lot of emotion. But to move forward, they need to be a profitable industry, even at the price of exiting a market.
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 3:52 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
There seems to be talk that AA will enter the market at some point and WN has already jumped into SAN-PDX and SAN-SEA so perhaps LAX-PDX seems inevitable as well.

AS is supposedly in talks with AA to strengthen their relationship. AA already code-shares with AS on LAX-SEA so may not be interested in devoting resources to that route.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 12):
I've wondered the same ever since AS and DL's relationship started getting adversarial. UA very much seemed to see AS as a nemesis in the NW, competing on many routes and bidding against each other for Horizon back in the 80s. I wonder if times are different now that US has largely retreated from the Pacific Northwest?

I don't see AS and UA ever getting friendly...AS did the same thing to UA that DL is basically attempting vs. AS in SEA. When I was a kid, UA ruled SEA. It's kind of sad what they've become. If they drop SEA-LAX then I believe their only SEA markets will be DEN, SFO, IAH, ORD, IAD and EWR.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 4:17 pm

So, does this pretty much end all of the EMB-120 flights in and out of SEA as well as PDX?
 
777fan
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RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting rising (Reply 31):
But to move forward, they need to be a profitable industry, even at the price of exiting a market.

I get that - I own some SA)">UA stock but have more of a vested interest as a flier than anything else.

I can remember boarding an HNL-LAX flight circa 2004 or 2005 and wondering if the return flight would even be an option as FAs were threatening to strike whcih could have initiated CH7 proceedings. In any case, I'm guessing many lifelong SA)">UA FFs that were familiar with SA)">UA's lean and mean BKK periods also were optimistic about the SA)">CO merger as it promised to breathe new life into the combined carrier's management style, customer service, fleet and route map. Higher fares and fewer SA)">FF perks came as a surprise to nobody, myself included, but honestly, what do we have now? A mish-mash of fleet offerings with an overabundance of RJs and contract carriers? Check. Coverage gaps in the route map (partly due to US' SA departure)? Check. Subpar hubs (IAD - I'm glaring at you)? Check. Workforce burnout and frustration? Check.

I couldn't care less about the PDX-LAX market - my frustration is borne out of SA)">UA's direction (or lack thereof). Successful enterprises need to do one of two things: dominate their industry's market share (nearly impossible in US commercial aviation), or in the face of overwhelming competition, find one thing (service, price, product, etc.) and do it better than everyone else. I just don't see that happening with SA)">UA at the moment and perhaps more alarmingly, I don't sense much urgency to right the ship or at least acknowledge that in the public domain, they're often getting smoked by their competition.

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
lhpdx
Posts: 885
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 5:36 pm

Wow! PDX is losing a lot of flights later this year............  
 
User avatar
Tomassjc
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:38 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
When was UA big in the Southeast?


If we go waaay back, from the Capital merger until deregulation, we can talk about UA's fairly large ATL operation. Later, nonstops from LAX to MEM/HSV/BHM. Mainline service into places like TYS, TRI and CRW. "Sunnbird" flights from PIT/CLE/BUF/ROC into Florida. All taking advantage of the former Capital routes. Perhaps not in terms of frequency, but in terms of areaa, UA had the Southeast covered long before the MIA hub.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 6:18 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 32):
I don't see AS and UA ever getting friendly...AS did the same thing to UA that DL is basically attempting vs. AS in SEA. When I was a kid, UA ruled SEA. It's kind of sad what they've become. If they drop SEA-LAX then I believe their only SEA markets will be DEN, SFO, IAH, ORD, IAD and EWR.

Alaska quadrupled their flight schedule and added overlapping routes with one of their "closest" North American partners all in the course of a couple years? I don't think the UA/AS DL/AS thing is remotely similar. AS, over the course of about 30 years, built up a hub in SEA. DL, over the course of 2 years is quadrupling their presence in SEA. None the less, I agree, I don't think UA wants to partner with AS - there would be nothing in it for them.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting KWBL (Reply 2):
Its just amazing to me to see how United has been marginalized in the NW. They were dominant in PDX and SEA for so many years, and over the last 5-10 years have really lost that position. Without the local feed, which probably was not that substantial to begin with, I imagine PDX may lose a couple of the frequencies to the hubs. The LAX route is the most amazing one to me because of their large LAX presence - they've been serving this route for well over 50 (maybe 60) years and for most of that time, were the market leader. just shows their CRJs weren't gonna cut it. Very sad to see them march toward irrelevancy in the Pac NW.

They're Dropping EMB120's are you kidding? They should have been cut Years ago or upgraded to at Least the Same airplanes that Horizon is flying. You can't go in there with that "puddle jumper" against a Q400 and expect to prosper.
The passenger are going t o look at that thing, look over at the Q400 and say I'm going to fly that.
We're long past the Emb-120.., It was nice years ago but that and the Metroliner ??
Their time has past. That's almost a waste of pilots, Especially NOW When Regional Pilots are getting Scarce.
They're going to need those Crews to man their other Equipment.
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 7:21 pm

Yup, the route will be going.... Just wait for me. SEA-NRT was JUSt the start. if DOH-DXB was one route... Possible that GIG-GRU can be next, too.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 14):

What a shocker! UA throws a junky regional jet (CRJ 200 sometimes, CR7 at best) on a long flight and is forced out of the market when consumers vote with their wallets and fly the competition instead.

It actually hurts to watch this once-great airline become a shell of its former self. I am saddened and embarrassed. And, despite my Premier status, have yet to fly them as a revenue passenger once this year because their product is so awful and I can't take their operational delays anymore.

  

I flew this route back in January. Terrible departure times - leaving LAX at either 7am or 7pm. The 7am flight was absolutely brutal with short and tiny seats, no legroom at all, no E+, etc. I would not choose to fly this route on a CRJ again.

Quite a change from the days of the Shuttle operation and many 737s per day.

UA continues to whither and die on the west coast, outside of SFO. AA/DL continue to ramp up at LAX ... why can't UA get their act together and hold on to their market share?
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 39):
Yup, the route will be going.... Just wait for me. SEA-NRT was JUSt the start. if DOH-DXB was one route... Possible that GIG-GRU can be next, too.

Look at the news line !! The SEA NRT route was cut in favor of IAH-NRT where they feel it will be more Prosperous!!
The same equipment will be deployed to IAD- MAD and EWR-MUC. (the 777-222A)
NH will still fly into SEA from NET and NH is also going to fly NRT-BKK .
They're turning to * alliance more and more. Something I'll admit we were Loathe to in the past.
Even if it made good sense. At LEAST they posted why!
Something they didn't do until just Recently. I applaud them for it.
Now! Let's see if it works for the Bottom Line!!
 
threeifbyair
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 8:02 pm

Now DL will lose a little less money on SEA-PDX with those CR9s. There is no room for 3 carriers in that market, especially when you need pretty much 100% business customers or high-value connections to make money. All of the volume is on I-5, Amtrak, and Bolt Bus.

Although these cuts are fairly minor, the retreat of UA (and VX and WN before it) from SEA and PDX local markets has given AS a bit of a respite from the DL onslaught.

The West Coast is perhaps the most competitive airfare market in the domestic US right now with DL's incursions; it makes sense for OO/UA to retreat. At the same time, mid-con and trans-con flights ex-SEA are brutally expensive this summer; fares are approaching Thanksgiving price levels.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25762
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 8:39 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 32):
AS is supposedly in talks with AA to strengthen their relationship. AA already code-shares with AS on LAX-SEA so may not be interested in devoting resources to that route.

AA will likely announce entry to LAXSEA and LAXPDX later this year. It was originally going to start in June with four daily to each - CR7s to Portland and 738s to Seattle. This was made public to LAX officials. The merger and subsequent divestures of a pair of T3 gates plus gate construction put this on indefinite hold. AA has now solved its gate problem with its move to T6 lower gates later this year.

While AA and AS clearly enjoy their partnership, it's important to serve key domestic markets from LAX on its own metal.
a.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3132
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 8:40 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
And your proof Cape Air will never come stateside is what?

Because they have 2 ATR's. It would make zero sense to move a fleet of 2 planes stateside, when you already have a ton of planes in a similar seating capacity in the states.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
doug_or
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 38):
They're Dropping EMB120's are you kidding? They should have been cut Years ago or upgraded to at Least the Same airplanes that Horizon is flying. You can't go in there with that "puddle jumper" against a Q400 and expect to prosper.
The passenger are going t o look at that thing, look over at the Q400 and say I'm going to fly that.
We're long past the Emb-120.., It was nice years ago but that and the Metroliner ??
Their time has past.

On a 30 minute flight they're going to buy the cheaper ticket. These routes were cut because they have no hub to feed and a dwindling FF base to cater to.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4411
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 43):
it's important to serve key domestic markets from LAX on its own metal.

Why?
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3449
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 11:27 pm

On the surface the only one that surprises me is LAX-PDX, but I didn't realize how small UA was on that route. Just 116 daily seats in a saturated route pair that overflies a hub doesn't scream necessary. Better to use those assets elsewhere, in particular the CR7.
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sat May 24, 2014 11:37 pm

I remember doing PDX-SEA for the heck of it on a trip a few years back. First EMB-120 flight in quite a long time.
 
KD5MDK
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 am

RE: UA To Cut PDX-SEA/EUG/RDM (and LAX?)

Sun May 25, 2014 5:00 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 43):
it's important to serve key domestic markets from LAX on its own metal.

Why?

Upgrades, for the moment. Drives FF behavior compared to picking UA or AS as their primary airline.

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