seatback
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DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 12:10 am

Looks like a bit of tit for tat in Seattle. Delta comes out first promoting their service to ski destinations and the other great things they're doing there.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...seattle-popular-ski-164200535.html

AS comes out with their own:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska...-seattle-departures-190000455.html

AS' seem a bit reactionary with their quote from their Communications guy. Typically only done when you can't quickly get to your senior most leadership to provide a quote.

Interesting to watch, and read.
 
EricR
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 12:25 am

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):

AS' seem a bit reactionary with their quote from their Communications guy. Typically only done when you can't quickly get to your senior most leadership to provide a quote.

This sounds to me like it went all the way to leadership to quote. You have to remember that the quality of the leadership team at DL is far superior to the leadership team at AS. This may explain why it may appear that the AS press release was only reviewed at a junior level.
 
avi8
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 12:57 am

I would disagree with your statement saying that DL management is superior than AS management. I thing management at both airlines is probably the best among US carriers. Comparing DL to AS is not a fair comparison in my opinion. 27 daily to PDX?? That is insane! 280 departures is admiral. Now my only concern is, will this be profitable?
avi8

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goldenstate
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
You have to remember that the quality of the leadership team at DL is far superior to the leadership team at AS.

I think that's a pretty unfair comment to make, especially on the basis of a largely meaningless press release. AS is an extraordinarily well managed company with a long track record of success in the marketplace and among investors. DL's leadership team knows better than to underestimate or disrespect them.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
You have to remember that the quality of the leadership team at DL is far superior to the leadership team at AS.

Is this the lowest point that these threads have hit yet?  

True armchair QB'ing at its finest I tell ya
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Prost
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:06 am

Delta quote: "As part of our expanding network, Seattle customers will now have direct jet service to popular ski and beach destinations while enjoying Delta's investments in the airport as well as onboard every flight," said Mike Medeiros, Delta's vice president – Seattle. "With every addition, our goal is not only to offer more choices but also to provide a unique experience that only a global carrier can deliver."

Alaska quote: "With convenient nonstop service to 79 destinations from Seattle, our customers can fly to 80 percent of the places they want to go and this increases to 99 percent when combining Alaska's flights and those of our partner airlines."

Make of it what you will, as a Seattle DL employee I just go to work and do the best job I can do. I'm sure my Alaska brethren are doing the same. I will never consider Alaska as a 'frenemy' especially considering the exemplary service I've always received when flying on them. Competition means the flying public wins, and we as employees need to bring our 'A-Game' each and every day.
 
sxf24
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:13 am

Joe Sprague reports to the CEO. Doesn't get more senior than that.

Besides, quotes from leadership in press releases are always written by communications so you can stick whose ever name you want in a press release.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:25 am

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
AS' seem a bit reactionary with their quote from their Communications guy. Typically only done when you can't quickly get to your senior most leadership to provide a quote.

What? AS guy outranks the DL guy by a mile or more. And the news release is about as low on the importance meter as you can get.
 
smoot4208
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:39 am

DL also applied today for LAX-ZIH/ZLO; SEA-PVR This is on top of their application a few weeks ago for LAX-MZT. They are going after AS at LAX now too.

[Edited 2014-05-27 18:45:21]
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 3):
I think that's a pretty unfair comment to make, especially on the basis of a largely meaningless press release. AS is an extraordinarily well managed company with a long track record of success in the marketplace and among investors. DL's leadership team knows better than to underestimate or disrespect them.

Agreed. AS management is exemplary. Both airlines should be proud of their leadership.
 
N628AU
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:53 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):

That remark ranks up there with one of the dumbest things I have ever read on an airline message board.

Alaska Air stock hit an all time high today I believe. At the end of the day that is the true hallmark of the executive suite for any company.
 
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777Jet
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:57 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 9):
Both airlines should be proud of their leadership.

Correct, especially with compared against the like at UA  
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 8):
DL also applied today for LAX-ZIH/ZLO; SEA-PVR This is on top of their application a few weeks ago for LAX-MZT. They are going after AS at LAX now too.

Do you know when the Start of service is for on LAX/ZIH?
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EricR
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:34 am

Quoting N628AU (Reply 10):

That remark ranks up there with one of the dumbest things I have ever read on an airline message board.

Alaska Air stock hit an all time high today I believe. At the end of the day that is the true hallmark of the executive suite for any company.

Relax. I said DL's leadership team is superior to AS's leadership team. I did not say AS had a bad leadership team, though somehow you incorrectly came to this conclusion. One of the two are going to have the superior leadership team, and in my opinion it is DL.

Regarding stock price, DL also hit an all time high today and has performed better over the past year than AS. So if this is the true hallmark as you stated above, then you should be agreeing with me. Unfortunately you made this comment without knowing how well DL's stock price has performed relative to AS.

[Edited 2014-05-27 19:43:10]
 
opethfan
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 13):
I said DL's leadership team is superior to AS's leadership team.
Quoting EricR (Reply 13):
in my opinion it is DL.

That's a mighty large backpedal within the same post. Remember than a claim needs evidence to be taken seriously, while opinions have more leverage. It's not the best idea to post strong assertions without anything backing it up.
 
EricR
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:44 am

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 14):

That's a mighty large backpedal within the same post. Remember than a claim needs evidence to be taken seriously, while opinions have more leverage. It's not the best idea to post strong assertions without anything backing it up.

See my previous post regarding stock price as backup. Backpedal? I think not.

[Edited 2014-05-27 19:45:36]
 
opethfan
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:50 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):

You made that edit only after I had made my post ([Edited 2014-05-27 19:43:10] vs Reply 14, posted Tue May 27 2014 19:42:46 your local time)

And yes, evidence regarding financial performance is exactly what was needed to back up your claim. Thank you for providing it. But it is still a backpedal to go from "X *is* better than Y" to "*in my opinion*, X is better than Y"
 
goldenstate
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 13):
Regarding stock price, DL also hit an all time high today and has performed better over the past year than AS. So if this is the true hallmark as you stated above, then you should be agreeing with me. Unfortunately you made this comment without knowing how well DL's stock price has performed relative to AS.

I don't understand why you need to label one "better" than the other. DL started from a lower baseline. AS has been consistently driving 10% ROIC since well before that was socially acceptable in the airline industry. DL has taken that to the next level, but DL has an enormous, diverse network. It's no coincidence that Alaska perennially occupies the #1 JD Power ranking that DL aspires to take for itself. Alaska is a serious, established player and not to be underestimated.

[Edited 2014-05-27 19:59:23]
 
EricR
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:02 am

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 16):

You made that edit only after I had made my post ([Edited 2014-05-27 19:43:10] vs Reply 14, posted Tue May 27 2014 19:42:46 your local time)

Absolutely I did, but I can guarantee you it took me longer than 36 seconds (the time difference between my edit and your post) to modify my post. In other words, I began to add the stock price in to my post before you posted yours. There is no way I could have picked up your post the second you hit the post button, read your post, and responded all within 36 seconds.

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 16):

But it is still a backpedal to go from "X *is* better than Y" to "*in my opinion*, X is better than Y"

Explain how this is a backpedal? Whenever anyone says X company has a better management team than Y company, it is based on an opinion. There is no black or white answer to that question.

Now, if you want someone to explain "why" they believe X company has better management than Y company, then that is a different story. I believe this is what you are intending to say.

[Edited 2014-05-27 20:06:02]
 
usflyguy
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
You have to remember that the quality of the leadership team at DL is far superior to the leadership team at AS.

Yes, because DL's executives are bringing in record bonuses while their employees are still at pre-bankruptcy wages makes them far superior, right? How was AS's bankruptcy? What did their executives do to their employees when they went through Ch.11? Oh, that's right, they haven't filed for bankruptcy.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
smoot4208
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 12):
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 8):
DL also applied today for LAX-ZIH/ZLO; SEA-PVR This is on top of their application a few weeks ago for LAX-MZT. They are going after AS at LAX now too.

Do you know when the Start of service is for on LAX/ZIH?

December 20th for both ZIH and ZLO, ZIH will be daily through Jan 14th then goes Saturday only. ZLO will be 3x weekly through Jan 14th and then go Saturday only.
 
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 13):
Regarding stock price, DL also hit an all time high today and has performed better over the past year than AS. So if this is the true hallmark as you stated above, then you should be agreeing with me. Unfortunately you made this comment without knowing how well DL's stock price has performed relative to AS.

Viewing short-term stock performance as the One True Performance Measure is a big part of what's wrong with our business environment. It's a factor, but it hardly justifies the conclusion that DL's leadership team is "superior" unless you are a speculator.
 
EricR
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:29 am

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 17):

DL started from a lower baseline.

First of all, I do not buy into that logic whatsoever. The reason is because DL had much greater risk than AS. DL had to perform a flawless integration of two large airlines, successfully integrate two separate labor groups, overhaul its network (including closing two hubs and reallocating resources), update its onboard product, increase its share of corporate customers and increase its appeal to business passengers, overhaul its Asian network and create a new TPAC gateway in SEA, etc. ,etc.

What has AS done over this same period? Not much because up until recently, they have had a virtual monopoly in the Pacific Northwest and along select west coast routes. It is easy to obtain a high ROIC when you have very limited or no competition.

As for those JD Power awards - big deal. Once those awards start to help AS generate more revenue or reduce costs, then let me know. In the meantime, those awards are just gathering dust on shelf. I have never heard one person say that I am going to fly AS because they have won the JD Power award.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):

Yes, because DL's executives are bringing in record bonuses while their employees are still at pre-bankruptcy wages makes them far superior, right? How was AS's bankruptcy? What did their executives do to their employees when they went through Ch.11? Oh, that's right, they haven't filed for bankruptcy.

This just reinforces the idea that when you have a virtual monopoly on routes, you are insulated from external factors that affect those who have to compete to survive. AS no longer will have this luxury.

[Edited 2014-05-27 20:45:51]
 
usflyguy
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 4:48 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 22):
This just reinforces the idea that when you have a virtual monopoly on routes, you are insulated from external factors that affect those who have to compete to survive. AS no longer will have this luxury.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the leadership of DL filing for Ch. 11 and f'ing over the employees and vendors and their employees while AS didn't, but AS has always had about 50% market share in SEA compared to what DL enjoys in SLC, MSP, DTW, and ATL which are all well about 70%... I'd say that DL is the one with the luxury of having virtual monopolies and being insulated from external factors yet they are the ones that went through Ch. 11.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
EricR
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 5:20 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 23):

but AS has always had about 50% market share in SEA compared to what DL enjoys in SLC, MSP, DTW, and ATL which are all well about 70%... I'd say that DL is the one with the luxury of having virtual monopolies and being insulated from external factors yet they are the ones that went through Ch. 11.

Well, first of all, MSP and DTW were not hubs for DL when they filed BK. Nevertheless, the hubs that were part of DL when they declared BK relied much more heavily on connecting traffic than O&D. Therefore, while DL may have had an enormous market share in a place like CVG, the vast majority of the routes and seats out of CVG existed due to connecting traffic. The connecting traffic is where DL faced heavy competition.
 
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 5:26 am

deleted due to duplication

[Edited 2014-05-27 22:30:56]
 
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 5:28 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 5):
Make of it what you will, as a Seattle DL employee I just go to work and do the best job I can do. I'm sure my Alaska brethren are doing the same. I will never consider Alaska as a 'frenemy' especially considering the exemplary service I've always received when flying on them. Competition means the flying public wins, and we as employees need to bring our 'A-Game' each and every day.

This
 
dashman
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 7:04 am

Considering Delta has a far superior managment team AS should probably close the doors right ow as they will never be able to compete with Delta. We all know Delta is a far superior airline.
 
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RWA380
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 9:38 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 4):
Is this the lowest point that these threads have hit yet?

Pretty close, it gets worse usually. These threads are fine until one person starts throwing poisened comments around, but that usually takes 20-30 posts, this was the lead reply, and a very poor one, which has already derailed this thread.

Quoting EricR (Reply 13):
Relax. I said DL's leadership team is superior to AS's leadership team. I did not say AS had a bad leadership team, though somehow you incorrectly came to this conclusion. One of the two are going to have the superior leadership team, and in my opinion it is DL.

It has been pointed out, by several respected members, that you may have better made your point had your posting not been so insulting to AS and their leadership.

The AS leadership has taken a small carrier from Alaska to what it is today, a very healthy and robust carrier with money in the bank, and a fleet of very new shiney airplanes that keep coming, With record profits while defending their main hub, starting new services, upgrading aircraft with new IFE and power ports, having a generous and popular mileage program, and industry recognition for on time performance, IMO, AS leadership is doing an amazing job.

As this is only your opinion, a IMO or a IMHO would have helped your point out. I should have suggested the post to be deleted as your initial comments are nothing but flamebait, but too many people already replied to it.

Given the volitility of this AS & DL subject, you could have been far more careful choosing your words. IMO, you are either trying to stir the pot, or being ignorant to the innumerous & venomous posts that occur regarding this subject when one side starts insulting the other side.

The fact is you have no idea if one airlines leadership is better than the other, you just have an armchair opinion, except opinions are like [email protected]@[email protected], everyone has one. What ever your real intent, IMO, not a great way of starting out a thread with a pointed comment like did little but incite an arguement unreleated to the OPs thread.

It would be nice if you'd show some respect to the hard work AS has done getting to where they are with excellent leadership, AS has far more to work for, so yes they will always try harder, and work faster to get a job done, if that comes off as a bit unpolished, it means AS doesn't care as much as you do about the subtext.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):
Yes, because DL's executives are bringing in record bonuses while their employees are still at pre-bankruptcy wages makes them far superior, right? How was AS's bankruptcy? What did their executives do to their employees when they went through Ch.11? Oh, that's right, they haven't filed for bankruptcy.

I guess that must have been just blind luck, 30 years ago the only lower 48 route AS had was SEA-PDX, now they fly all over the country from the NW mostly, but organic growth is far superior to might by size.    
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N839MH
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 11:51 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):
Yes, because DL's executives are bringing in record bonuses while their employees are still at pre-bankruptcy wages makes them far superior, right? How was AS's bankruptcy? What did their executives do to their employees when they went through Ch.11? Oh, that's right, they haven't filed for bankruptcy.

Really? Do you live under a dillusional rock? Where did you come up with this false statement that? Since Delta's BK, Delta employees have shared in its largest and consistent profit sharing in company history. Scaled employees at the the topped out rate are now the highest pay scale in company history. Topped out scale employees now earn up to max of 5 weeks of vacation...down from a high of 7 weeks which was offered way before BK and reduced to 6 weeks prior to BK.

Delta employees who have some longevity are doing very good since BK thanks to its Executives. As for AS executives and what they did for their employees....they stayed the course but didn't seize the opportunity to "take the company" to a bolder and higher level. They stayed the course...status quo compared to what Delta has had to do and even now AA is doing.

Just because AS executives know they can swim well, I truly believe they missed the boat of opportunity to excel. Too bad for them, we shal see!
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 12:37 pm

DL & AS threads need to be treated the same way as A vs. B.....just stand clear.
 
aa777lvr
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:00 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):
Yes, because DL's executives are bringing in record bonuses while their employees are still at pre-bankruptcy wages makes them far superior, right? How was AS's bankruptcy? What did their executives do to their employees when they went through Ch.11? Oh, that's right, they haven't filed for bankruptcy.

In the interest of fairness in this sparring on A-net, AS did outsource their fleet service (ramp) a number of years back to Menzies. We know what happens when we cast stones in glass houses.

http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4152281.html

AA777LVR
 
questions
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:06 pm

Quoting dashman (Reply 27):
Considering Delta has a far superior managment team AS should probably close the doors right ow as they will never be able to compete with Delta. We all know Delta is a far superior airline.

Wow! I don't think very many people on here thought about that -- AS simply closing the doors. Most people thought that DL or AA would acquire AS. But AS simply closing the doors would be an interesting play.
 
TeamintheSky
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:10 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):

DL & AS threads need to be treated the same way as A vs. B.....just stand clear.

It was exhausting when every thread was about the imminent merger of DL & AS, which the vast majority of posters thought was obnoxious. Who knew that the proliferation of DL versus AS threads would be even more exhausting...

A life lesson on Airliners, don't complain about what you have because the alternative could always be worse.

Both companies are well run, and I suspect both companies will have good results from their Seattle operations. The real winner is the Pacific Northwest with more options at a better price than ever before.

Regards,

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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 1:42 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 22):
As for those JD Power awards - big deal. Once those awards start to help AS generate more revenue or reduce costs, then let me know. In the meantime, those awards are just gathering dust on shelf. I have never heard one person say that I am going to fly AS because they have won the JD Power award.

If that award didn't matter Delta wouldn't be putting in a big push to get it.
 
PEK777
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:00 pm

It seems I am late to the party. However, I brought enough popcorn to go around.
IT should be noted Delta has the upper hand in this battle. Alaska has massive oil reserves (ANWR), but only Detla has the resources to refine the oil into a viable product for the market. Delta has shown superior management in this regard.
Carry on, please....   
 
lhpdx
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:17 pm

OMG! Where are all of these planes coming from?(Alaska)
 
citationjet
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 6):
Besides, quotes from leadership in press releases are always written by communications so you can stick whose ever name you want in a press release.

   That is a true statement. I know that for a fact.
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:32 pm

http://www.smartertravel.com/airfare...lake-city-flights.html?id=18597190

I am thinking this has to be a typo right? I am thinking they meant DTW-SEA bonus aka targeting delta?
 
flybyguy
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 2:44 pm

This war between DL and AS may push AS to OW. That's the only way AS will be able to compete with DL's global hub at SEA. DL's strategy thus far is to pluck their elites from AS metal, court business travelers from Microsoft, Boeing, Amazon, etc. with convenient international nonstops out of SEA and offer all this at competitively low fares (even in Business class). Delta offers the cheapest flights to Europe and Asia out of SEA in all service classes.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:10 pm

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 39):
DL's strategy thus far is to pluck their elites from AS metal, court business travelers from Microsoft, Boeing, Amazon, etc. with convenient international nonstops out of SEA and offer all this at competitively low fares (even in Business class). Delta offers the cheapest flights to Europe and Asia out of SEA in all service classes.

AS's lack of international network never seemed to be much of a problem before. They are still partners so anyone currently in AS's FF program still can reap benefits on DL, abeit limited benefits.

Cheap flights to Europe and Asia don't make money especially when they are also loading up flights with lower-yielding connecting passengers. Lets not pretend like there's not equal (arguably superior) competition in these Asian routes.

There's a long way to go in this fight. A large portion of DL's flights haven't even started. Lets not pretend like DL has been raging success in SEA because it is the first inning of a 9 inning game.
 
Cessna172RG
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:14 pm

If I have a choice between flying Delta and Alaska on the same route, it's Delta every time. Several reasons behind this, but the most notable one is that I do not agree with the AS anti-nicotine "user" policy that they have in place when it comes to hiring workers. Until Alaska stops that unfair discrimination, I'm a loyal ex-Northwest/Delta flyer, even if it costs a few bucks more. Call it a grudge, call it a resentment, but it's based on experience during the hiring process.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
MIflyer12
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:22 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 40):
There's a long way to go in this fight. A large portion of DL's flights haven't even started. Lets not pretend like DL has been raging success in SEA because it is the first inning of a 9 inning game.

You may think it's a nine inning game, but investment bankers play by mercy/slaughter rules: a rule designed to avoid humiliating losses and to prevent unduly extending games whose outcome is no longer in doubt.
 
aa777lvr
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 40):
AS's lack of international network never seemed to be much of a problem before.

Turn back the clock and substitute "AS" with "PA" and "international" with "domestic". Airlines are a global business and times change.

AA777LVR
 
BigGSFO
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):
DL & AS threads need to be treated the same way as A vs. B.....just stand clear.

*sits back with the popcorn*

Pacific Rim 2: Kaiju vs. Jaeger in Seattle.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 32):
Wow! I don't think very many people on here thought about that -- AS simply closing the doors. Most people thought that DL or AA would acquire AS. But AS simply closing the doors would be an interesting play.

I believe you've missed the obvious sarcasm in that reply.....unless your reply was, also.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 28):
I guess that must have been just blind luck, 30 years ago the only lower 48 route AS had was SEA-PDX, now they fly all over the country from the NW mostly, but organic growth is far superior to might by size.

If we're talking about humble beginnings, think about this. When I hired on in '71, DL wasn't much more than a regional carrier (old definition). With the exception of a few routes, domestically, and a couple of international (MBJ, CCS) everything was east of the Mississippi (DFW, MCI, LAX,SFO, etc. excepted). When I worked at ORD, NW and EA were our biggest competitors to the southeast (at least out of ORD) and they were MUCH larger, especially EA. We were always the underdog. Probably the only place on the system where we weren't the underdog was ATL. All I'm saying is that if we're going to talk about "humble" beginnings, AS isn't the only one. You know as well as I do that DL wasn't always as large as they are today. Matter of fact, DL always occupied the #3 spot until the merger with NW. And only then did they have the #1 spot and only briefly.
That's only 5 years out of the last 85.


I have the utmost respect for AS and their employees. They've done exceedingly well and for that reason, I'll never buy the "poor little AS, they're being picked on" argument. They are not the only one that has been an underdog over the years. Of course, you know how I feel about DL. That will never change. It is what it is.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 42):
You may think it's a nine inning game, but investment bankers play by mercy/slaughter rules: a rule designed to avoid humiliating losses and to prevent unduly extending games whose outcome is no longer in doubt.

Even still. The game has barely started as a good portion of DL's additions flights don't start till fall. Also many forget that they are still partners so AS still capitalizes off their network synergies.

Quoting aa777lvr (Reply 43):
Turn back the clock and substitute "AS" with "PA" and "international" with "domestic". Airlines are a global business and times change.

It is possible to be profitable to have a domestic network without a Trans-Atlantic/Pacific network. Just ask Southwest, Jetblue, and Spirit. It is quite a bit more difficult to have a profitable and successful international network without domestic feed because the scope of international travel is much more limited and equally if not more competitive. But again my point stands time will tell what AS does because this is really just the very beginning. Just as you say times change.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 5:07 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 46):
Quoting aa777lvr (Reply 43):
Turn back the clock and substitute "AS" with "PA" and "international" with "domestic". Airlines are a global business and times change.

It is possible to be profitable to have a domestic network without a Trans-Atlantic/Pacific network. Just ask Southwest, Jetblue, and Spirit. It is quite a bit more difficult to have a profitable and successful international network without domestic feed because the scope of international travel is much more limited and equally if not more competitive. But again my point stands time will tell what AS does because this is really just the very beginning. Just as you say times change.

I don't think there has been a huge spike in international premium business travel? I bet you something like 90+% of us airline of elites travel in the US/Canada for business and maybe once a few years will travel internationally. I think business travel is alot more US/Canada based for most US companies than most people on here think. Southwest has done excellent in the last few years gobbling up business travelers.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 8):
DL also applied today for LAX-ZIH/ZLO; SEA-PVR This is on top of their application a few weeks ago for LAX-MZT. They are going after AS at LAX now too.

At what point does this become an illegal predatory attack?
 
cschleic
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RE: DL & AS: The Battle Of The Press Releases

Wed May 28, 2014 7:18 pm

Interesting how a thread about continued SEA expansion turned into a debate about management. They both have done very well in their current environments, and both are very successful. But they're still apples and oranges companies in terms of market, scale, etc.

Maybe back to the competition discussion.

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