Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
delta88
Topic Author
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:35 pm

An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 2:19 am

Could an MD-80 or slightly larger sized aircraft with rear engines be successful in todays economy and airline fleet? Seeing as some airlines still fly DC-9s, many still fly the MD-80s and Delta loves the 717 and MD-90, could someone make an aircraft like the MD-80 and make it commercially viable, say extend the range to say 3000 NM or in the range area? New Engines, Avionics, Building Materials? Would it be possible? I remember reading somewhere that Boeing was looking into a re engined MD-80 back in the very early 2000s but i cant find a link to it. And No I do not mean an MD-80/90 replacement, I mean an entirely new airplane.
B712,B738,B739,B752,B762ER,B763ER,B772ER,MD82,MD83,MD88,MD90,A320,CRJ9,CRJ2,EMJ145,ERJ175
 
zanl188
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 2:25 am

Requirement to operate into minimally equipped fields drove the t-tailed, rear engined, low wing design of the DC-9. That requirement for mainline aircraft no longer exists, in the west anyway.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
User avatar
MD80
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:29 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):
...many still fly the MD-80s

There are not many MD-80-operators left compared to the number of operators ten year ago or so.

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):
I remember reading somewhere that Boeing was looking into a re engined MD-80 back in the very early 2000s

There were reports about a possible upgrade with BR715s but this idea was dropped.

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):
Could an MD-80 or slightly larger sized aircraft with rear engines be successful in todays economy and airline fleet?

I have my doubts. The operational and economical advantages of conventionally-configured aircraft are bigger than the advantages of a T-tailed aircraft with rear engines.
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
UA444
Posts: 3023
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:20 am

The ideal 737 replacement would be one that covers the DC-9, 737, and 757 missions with one basic type of plane with different variants to combat those 3 planes.

I think a plane that does what the DC-9 and 731-735 was designed to, SHORT haul flights, would definitely work today. Flying a 737-900/ER from ORD-DTW is a huge waste of a plane.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7576
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:33 am

I hope, for what ever reason, that Boeing realizes that spotters get bored with the same planes over and over again and make the 737/757 replacement a T-tail. I know it most likely will be the regular configuration.

A guy can dream, can't I?  
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2166
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:40 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
I hope, for what ever reason, that Boeing realizes that spotters get bored with the same planes over and over again and make the 737/757 replacement a T-tail. I know it most likely will be the regular configuration.

A guy can dream, can't I?  

Well, in that case, let's go for a V-tail, like a Beech Bonanza.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 3):
The ideal 737 replacement would be one that covers the DC-9, 737, and 757 missions with one basic type of plane with different variants to combat those 3 planes.

I would all but put money on Boeing's NSA program to be on the larger side of the narrowbody spectrum, covering the 738, 739, 752, and maybe even 753. Sales of the -6 and -7 are pretty low and depending on BBD's success, the CSeries and E2s will be the ones to fill that section of the market.
 
User avatar
MD80
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:29 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:44 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):

I hope, for what ever reason, that Boeing realizes that spotters get bored with the same planes over and over again and make the 737/757 replacement a T-tail. I know it most likely will be the regular configuration.

I fear that manufacturers are not interested to please spotters.   
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 25771
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 4:04 am

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):
Seeing as some airlines still fly DC-9s, many still fly the MD-80s and Delta loves the 717 and MD-90, could someone make an aircraft like the MD-80 and make it commercially viable, say extend the range to say 3000 NM or in the range area?

I'm not at all sure the trends favor such an a/c. AA just made the largest narrowbody order ever so it could move on from from its DC-9 ancestors. DL is clinging to them just because it got a smoking good deal on everyone else's MD-90s and 717 castoffs. There's no evidence at all that DL would pay list price for new frames in the configurations you suggest.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
bloviator
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:32 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 4:07 am

Quoting MD80 (Reply 7):
I fear that manufacturers are not interested to please spotters.

Disagree. How else to explain the 747-8I?  

I kid....
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2098
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 4:36 am

Quoting MD80 (Reply 7):
I fear that manufacturers are not interested to please spotters.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!!! Its the airline livery designers of the 2010 era that are not interested to please spotters..  http://www.aero.de/content/pics/p_696.jpg

Would be interested to see if the Airbus concepts in the above link would make an appearance..
 
bloviator
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:32 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 5:00 am

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):

Could an MD-80 or slightly larger sized aircraft with rear engines be successful in todays economy and airline fleet? Seeing as some airlines still fly DC-9s, many still fly the MD-80s and Delta loves the 717 and MD-90, could someone make an aircraft like the MD-80 and make it commercially viable, say extend the range to say 3000 NM or in the range area? New Engines, Avionics, Building Materials? Would it be possible? I remember reading somewhere that Boeing was looking into a re engined MD-80 back in the very early 2000s but i cant find a link to it. And No I do not mean an MD-80/90 replacement, I mean an entirely new airplane.

Would you take MD-80ish in the loosest sense of the word "ish?"

NASA and MIT are developing technology to fly us at Mach .7 in 20 years. Behold, the Double Bubble: http://www.nasa.gov/content/the-double-bubble-d8-0/#.U4VrMxaFHKc

It's not a looker, per se, but it is a T-tail with rear-mounted engines. So check and check.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10176
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 6:05 am

I think the basic configuration of tail mounted engines could be back if open-rotor becomes reality. But even the 2025 generation of turbofans will have so large fans that hanging them under the wings might become a challenge. I think it is likely that the next standard body aircraft designs could go in that direction. The clean wing is quite attractive and you can do some nice things with the tail design to reduce noise made by the plane.
 
aklrno
Posts: 1595
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 7:03 am

Smaller aircraft could continue to use tail mounted engines because the fan diameter is not a huge problem and the distance from engine to wing is short, minimizing the extra fuselage structure needed to support the engine.

As things scale up, the fan diameter requires the engine be mounted way out from the fuselage, and the design loses the efficiency of having the heaviest part of the aircraft being carried where the lift is generated. I wonder if you could even build a large CFRP fuselage with tail mounted engines. It would need a lot of reinforcement to carry the engine weight to the wings.

More RJ sized tail mounted engines seem reasonable, but 737 or A320 size seems unlikely.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 8:14 am

Quoting MD80 (Reply 2):
The operational and economical advantages of conventionally-configured aircraft are bigger than the advantages of a T-tailed aircraft with rear engines.

Aren't todays high-bypass fans too large to be tail mounted efficiently?
 
User avatar
Vasu
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:34 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 8:42 am

Comac ARJ21...
That's a new one!
 
User avatar
MD80
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:29 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 10:49 am

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 14):
Aren't todays high-bypass fans too large to be tail mounted efficiently?

Honestly I don´t know. The heaviest engines mounted at the rear on a twin-engined civil-jetliner are on MD-90s AFAIK.

Quoting bloviator (Reply 9):
Disagree. How else to explain the 747-8I?  

I kid....

It was not possible to make the 747 ugly - this is the reason that the 747-8i looks magnificient. 
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 10):
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

I stick to my opinion that manufacturers are not interested to please us:D. I was spoiled as a teen-boy too! I looked at MD-80s in the 1990s of American, Delta, Austrian, Alitalia, Swissair, Iberia, Finnair, Korean Air, Aero Lloyd, JAS and many others and thought: Oh, McDonnell Douglas designed these aircraft for me to make me happy and the airline used their liveries to make me even more happy!   

Quoting seahawk (Reply 12):
The clean wing is quite attractive and you can do some nice things with the tail design to reduce noise made by the plane.

There are some articles from the 1990s and they described that the position of the IAE V2500s on the MD-90 resulted in even lower noise compared to the A320-family due to the location of the engines.
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
gordonsmall
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2001 1:52 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 11:19 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 5):
Well, in that case, let's go for a V-tail, like a Beech Bonanza.

Now you're talking. The Beech V35 is one of my all time favourite airplanes both to look at and fly, pure class.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
steman
Posts: 1670
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 11:29 am

Quoting MD80 (Reply 16):
I stick to my opinion that manufacturers are not interested to please us:D. I was spoiled as a teen-boy too! I looked at MD-80s in the 1990s of American, Delta, Austrian, Alitalia, Swissair, Iberia, Finnair, Korean Air, Aero Lloyd, JAS and many others and thought: Oh, McDonnell Douglas designed these aircraft for me to make me happy and the airline used their liveries to make me even more happy!

Funny,
growing up in Rome I was so bored of seeing an endless line of AZ´s MD-80s flying over my home on their approach path to FCO. The odd A300 was like fresh air.
I was under the approach path of flights coming from the South and the East, so no 737s from European Airlines were visible but almost only DC9s and MD-80s.
When A320s/A321s started to appear in the AZ fleet, they looked so new and modern.
Now they all look the same, 737s, A320s, Embraers.....all so boring. And when I see a picture of an MD-80 I think "Man, that plane was such a looker!"
 
lancelot07
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:22 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting MD80 (Reply 16):
I stick to my opinion that manufacturers are not interested to please us:D. I was spoiled as a teen-boy too! I looked at MD-80s in the 1990s of American, Delta, Austrian, Alitalia, Swissair, Iberia, Finnair, Korean Air, Aero Lloyd, JAS and many others and thought: Oh, McDonnell Douglas designed these aircraft for me to make me happy and the airline used their liveries to make me even more happy!  

Manufacturers and airlines want to make the passengers happy, actually they NEED to !
It's just that there are too few of us and too many of THEM (those that do not care about planes)
 
SJCMSP
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:29 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 12:07 pm

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 1):
Requirement to operate into minimally equipped fields drove the t-tailed, rear engined, low wing design of the DC-9. That requirement for mainline aircraft no longer exists, in the west anyway.

I have memories as a kid standing on the observation deck at SJC and watching the AirCal DC-9s come in and seeing the stairs come out of a compartment just below 1L. I suppose this feature along with the power back-up further reduced the equipment necessary at an airfield to support a DC-9.
 
User avatar
BN727227Ultra
Posts: 714
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:15 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 12:07 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 5):
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
I hope, for what ever reason, that Boeing realizes that spotters get bored with the same planes over and over again and make the 737/757 replacement a T-tail. I know it most likely will be the regular configuration.

A guy can dream, can't I?

Well, in that case, let's go for a V-tail, like a Beech Bonanza.

Bring back the Connie!
 
User avatar
downtown273
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:00 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 12:12 pm

CRJ-900? I'd consider it quite popular and successful.
 
epten
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:12 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 12:17 pm

Well, the Chinese are certainly planning to do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_ARJ21
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10176
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 12:35 pm

Quoting aklrno (Reply 13):
More RJ sized tail mounted engines seem reasonable, but 737 or A320 size seems unlikely.

That depends on the fan diameter. The 2025 engine generation could be so large that putting them under the wing would require a very long and heavy landing gear while making the loading on the ground difficult with the fuselage too high up from the ground. Then we might see different solutions. (Engine mounted like on the MD series, maybe directly above the fuselage or even above the wing.) For a propfan all those solutions are also interesting from a noise control point of view. And the weight penalty might be offset by a clean wing and also a lighter wingbox.
 
EnviableOne
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:23 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 1:16 pm

the much rumoured, but still yet to be realised NG Fokkers have tail mounted PW GTFs
A wise man speaks because has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something - Plato
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):
An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Oh I dream of an MD-90NG all the time! Improved MD-90-50 with improved performance, winglet devices and - dare I say it - a new windshield design similar to the Comac ARJ21.

Now that's what I'm talkin' about.   
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
jfk777
Posts: 7463
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 1:55 pm

The Dc-9 /MD-80 had its day, the narrow cabin and 5 abreast seating makes feel like a flying hot dog with wings. The sad thing is McDonnell Douglas didn't build a fresh narrow body design to compete with the then new A320. If they had built that and a long range twin they would still be in business.
 
NAS679A3W
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:45 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 2:01 pm

The current price of oil is???

Not with JT8D-217s it won't. The MD-80 was a flop. It has its niche, but you would think with V-2500s the performance would be comparable to an A320.
Fly low, fly fast, turn left.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting EnviableOne (Reply 25):
he much rumoured, but still yet to be realised NG Fokkers have tail mounted PW GTFs

Reffok is a subsidy-fraud-vehicle, nothing material will ever come from them. The plane is vaporware.
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4502
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:05 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
The Dc-9 /MD-80 had its day, the narrow cabin and 5 abreast seating makes feel like a flying hot dog with wings.

Well, the "much touted on A.net" ERJ-170/75/90/95 has an even narrower cabin.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 14):
Aren't today's high-bypass fans too large to be tail mounted efficiently?

Surely not as long as the aircraft is no bigger than a 739 or so. The real killer is that weight & balance is simpler and more flexible for the airlines if the engines are under the wings.

Quoting NAS679A3W (Reply 28):
The MD-80 was a flop.

Oh good grief. A program that sold 1191 aircraft flopped?!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21735
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 3:51 pm

Engines on the tail allow for the wing and cargo hold to be lower to the ground improving economics at fields with marginal support equipment. Tail engines also are naturally FOD resistant. Landing gear is shorter (lighter and less volume in bays to store gear in flight).

Downsides to tail engines:
1. Wake of airframe distorts inlet, in particular in a turn. This impacts cruise fuel burn (slightly)
2. Weight of structure to move thrust from engines to the primary drag (wings) increases plane weight
3. Engines outboard of landing gear reduce ring root stress upon rough landing or hitting a pot hole. (Reduce wing/wingbox weight if wing mounted)
4. Weight of fuel system to move fuel to engines. (much more fuel than APU requires separate plumbing anyway).
5. Volume lost in tail due to engine subsystems and structure

Today the downsides outweigh the benefits of tail mounted engines above about 70 seats (exact number of seats debatable).

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):
Could an MD-80 or slightly larger sized aircraft with rear engines be successful in todays economy and airline fleet?

  

Lightsaber
5 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
User avatar
MD80
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:29 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 5:18 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
...the narrow cabin and 5 abreast seating makes feel like a flying hot dog with wings.

The 5-abreast seating was one of major advantages and in most cases offered more space per passenger than comparable aircraft with 6-abreast. Several US- and European MD-80-operators made independent surveys and the winner was the MD-80. One European operator made an independent survey at the end of the 1990s and the result was probably not the one envisaged: The winners were (in descending order) the MD-90, MD-80, Saab 2000 (operated by a subsidiary), followed by their new Boeing 737NG/A321s. Hm! I believe that the airline (or the management) expected a different result: Shiny new and highly popular Boeing 737NGs with 6-abreast in Economy and 5-abreast in Business should have been the choice of the passengers..

IMO at least European MD-80-operators used their MD-80s as an advantage to provide a higher comfort compared to 6-abreast. At least two former European charter-operators with MD-80s officially mentioned the advantages in clear words: Aero Lloyd and Airtours International.

The fact that 6-abreast became standard in narrowbody-airliners has nothing do to with popularity by passengers (they are not asked when they enter a 737 or A320) but the best solution for a design to fit a good number of passengers into a tube as short as possible.

For example, the length of the MD-80-cabin is only 2.49 feet (0.76 cm) longer than the cabin of a 737-800 but the 737-800 fits a maximum of 189 while the MD-80 has a maximum seating of 172 and the rest of the fuselage is the tail section with "empty room" and structure. So the 6-abreast allows a higher number of passengers within a specific range of cabin length but no better individual comfort for passengers. The MD-80-cabin also has an airy feeling due to the classic and clean lines of the design and rather big windows.
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:46 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 5:34 pm

The Convair 880 and 990 should have been big hits with passengers then. For 5 plus years, they were the only jets operated in the USA that didn't crowd you in, six across, as Jim Dooley used to most proudly claim in the NE "Come on Down" commercials.
 
penguins
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:52 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting NAS679A3W (Reply 28):
The MD-80 was a flop

I certainly wouldn't call a plane with 1,100+ produced a flop, would you?
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 7:37 pm

I think a jet with twin GE90s on the back would be quite interesting

  
 
LH707330
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting EnviableOne (Reply 25):
the much rumoured, but still yet to be realised NG Fokkers have tail mounted PW GTFs

A GTF would be much heavier than the Tays and thus mess up W/B.

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 29):
Reffok is a subsidy-fraud-vehicle, nothing material will ever come from them. The plane is vaporware.

This too...
 
ghifty
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:12 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 9:06 pm

Quoting NAS679A3W (Reply 28):
but you would think with V-2500s the performance would be comparable to an A320.

I believe it's commonly agreed on this forum that the MD-90s old wings play a big part in it's performance.. or lack thereof. The 737NG would probably not sell as well if it had 737-100 wings.  
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
User avatar
cageyjames
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:08 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 9:27 pm

Quoting penguins (Reply 35):
Quoting NAS679A3W (Reply 28):
The MD-80 was a flop

I certainly wouldn't call a plane with 1,100+ produced a flop, would you?

I was thinking the same thing. I avoid the MD-80s the best I can these days but a flop they were not.
 
User avatar
rmoore7734
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 9:31 pm

Instead of t-tail let's make it over the wing like HondaJet.com
 
tmoney
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:05 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting NAS679A3W (Reply 28):
The MD-80 was a flop

Choose your next words carefully, Persian ...

From MD80 to MD11 to F/A18 Mcdonald Douglas has the most awesome designs! I still seek out FL 717 whenever I get a chance to travel. Too bad they folded.
Yokes > Side-sticks
Mingarladon heros. RGN.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 10:35 pm

Quoting MD80 (Reply 16):
Quoting AviationAware (Reply 14):
Aren't todays high-bypass fans too large to be tail mounted efficiently?

Honestly I don´t know. The heaviest engines mounted at the rear on a twin-engined civil-jetliner are on MD-90s AFAIK.

That's primarily why the MD-90 is a few feet longer than the MD-80, to offset the heavier V2500 engines.
 
User avatar
MD80
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:29 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
That's primarily why the MD-90 is a few feet longer than the MD-80, to offset the heavier V2500 engines.


  

Quoting tmoney (Reply 41):
Mcdonald Douglas


   

Nice that you like McDonnell Douglas  
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
harleydriver
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:09 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 10:52 pm

I believe the future of aviation will be rear mounted engines in the 2030+ timeframe. The future of propulsion will be the open rotor when all the technologies required to keep the fans attached are figured out as there is no way to contain a separated blade. The engines could be mounted on top of the wing like the Honda Jet and it will just resemble a turboprop to a passenger but I believe they will be mounted on the aft fuselage. I feel the next major change to wide bodies will be a lifting body fuselage with engines mounted above the aft body. So, I feel wing mounted engines mounted below the wing will be a thing of the past and we will have a post asking if there will ever be an aircraft with wing mounted engines.  
Department of Redundancy Department
 
Alnicocunife
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:32 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Wed May 28, 2014 10:57 pm

No "T" aft mounted engines up to GE90 size. Maybe they could add a "T" in the tail?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blended_wing_body
 
LH707330
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Thu May 29, 2014 12:08 am

Quoting tmoney (Reply 41):
Choose your next words carefully, Persian ...

Is this a 300 reference, or inflammatory?

Quoting harleydriver (Reply 44):
The engines could be mounted on top of the wing like the Honda Jet and it will just resemble a turboprop to a passenger but I believe they will be mounted on the aft fuselage.

The problem with the Hondajet configuration is you lose the bending and flutter relief that the underslung engines give, while also complicating access. I think that's a non-starter. The aft-fuselage open-rotor could work, but I think the GTF will prevail. Although it would be cool to see A and B split tacks in the next generation, with one going mid-range twin-GTF and the other going short-haul OR, I don't see it happening.
 
UA444
Posts: 3023
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Thu May 29, 2014 1:33 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
The sad thing is McDonnell Douglas didn't build a fresh narrow body design to compete with the then new A320.

Neither did Boeing....
 
newhaven
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:26 pm

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Thu May 29, 2014 1:34 am

If they stretch that horrible CRJ abomination one more time, itll pretty much be an MD80
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7576
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: An MD-80 Type Airplane: Is It Possible Today?

Thu May 29, 2014 1:44 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 47):
Neither did Boeing....

In response to the A320, Boeing made the 737NG, which has sold more than the A320 family.

In response to the NEO, Boeing was about to commit to a new design, a twin isled 2-2-2 config. They even tossed around the idea of open fans. But Airbus developed the NEO instead and, IMO, they were pressured by AA to do the MAX with their mega order.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos