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Arcrftlvr
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Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 4:04 pm

Apparently as an AA 738 was pulling into gate 46B last night, the jet blast that occurred dislodged some barricades that delineate the tug path across the alley and blew one of them into the engine cowling of the DL 772 parked at gate 57. The flight was preparing for departure to SYD and was subsequently canceled. Ooops.

These barricades have been there for a long time and nothing like this has happened before...a little too much thrust when the 738 pulled into the gate, perhaps?
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 4:11 pm

Thank god i wasn't working i heard it was a mess i hate loading and offloading the same full plane thanks AA!!

[Edited 2014-05-30 09:25:06]
 
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777Jet
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 4:21 pm

Don't know what to say about this one but it sounds like a headache at the least...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
Arcrftlvr
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 7:15 pm

Could DL have ferried a 772 from ATL and just delay the flight? Is that even feasible?
 
jporterfi
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting Arcrftlvr (Reply 7):
Could DL have ferried a 772 from ATL and just delay the flight? Is that even feasible?

Assuming DL had a spare 77L at ATL, I don't see why this wouldn't be feasible.
PPC (ASEL) | Aircraft Flown: PA28, C172, DA20
 
777STL
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 4):

Assuming DL had a spare 77L at ATL, I don't see why this wouldn't be feasible.

Especially when you consider this will actually cause two cancelled flights because there's no other aircraft on the SYD end to operate the return. Although I can't imagine boarding a plane at 4 or 5AM LAX time to be fun.
PHX based
 
DualQual
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 9:12 pm

Even if they had a spare in ATL it's still a 5 hour flight plus time to gin up a crew to ferry it. Once it arrives in LAX, the original LAX-SYD crew won't have crew day to operate and LAX is not a 777 pilot base so no reserves. It's a lengthy delay either way.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
captainstefan
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 9:21 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 6):
ven if they had a spare in ATL it's still a 5 hour flight plus time to gin up a crew to ferry it. Once it arrives in LAX, the original LAX-SYD crew won't have crew day to operate and LAX is not a 777 pilot base so no reserves. It's a lengthy delay either way.

We (DL) only have 10 77Ls, so spares are not usually sitting here in ATL like 763s. I do notice that we usually have one or two on remote pads or at the TOC - but I don't know if they're undergoing maintenance or if they're just being parked waiting for their next run.
Long Live the Tulip!
 
aa777lvr
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Fri May 30, 2014 9:22 pm

I'm curious - does DL have any legal recourse to recoup losses (either from LAWA or AA)? I know this is a legal question, but curious what happens in this type of circumstance?

Maybe AA could just hand over the leases on those 4 recently acquired UA gates and call it "even"  

-AA777LVR
 
deltalaw
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sat May 31, 2014 12:10 am

Quoting aa777lvr (Reply 8):
I'm curious - does DL have any legal recourse to recoup losses (either from LAWA or AA)? I know this is a legal question, but curious what happens in this type of circumstance?

I believe the answer is yes…will depend on who was actually at fault to see who pays and I doubt it would get the point of being a suit or anything, but this is exactly what insurance is for.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sat May 31, 2014 4:31 am

Quoting aa777lvr (Reply 8):
does DL have any legal recourse to recoup losses

Of course. Most likely AA and LAWA have people on staff who examine claims much as an insurance adjuster would do, and figure out a range of dollars that would be "fair" compensation to DL. I'm sure that they are self-insured below a certain threshhold, and there are doubtless standard formulas by which compensation would be negotiated among the parties. It's not worth a lawsuit to work something like this out.

If it's more-expensive, AA notifies its insurance carrier of the incident, as does DL, and a settlement is negotiated by and among them. If DL's carrier pays DL, it "subrogates" (i.e. stands in DL's shoes) and makes a claim with AA's carrier. If it's an insurable amount of money, AA's insurance carrier will send an insurance adjuster to investigate the situation and document the damage, as likely will DL's carrier. There are companies like GAB (General Adjustment Bureau) who are on retainer to insurance companies: they are trusted and they have adjusters in every major city who have expertise in specific industries and who can be dispatched virtually immediately to investigate a claim if the company doesn't have one of its own people available.

I had a case a few years ago where a fire occurred in the generator installation on the roof of a major, 60-story Manhattan skyscraper. Big fire, fed by the generators' diesel fuel. Lots of damage to building systems on the roof, and just replacing the generators was expensive as hell, as a rigger had to be hired who could safely lower the broken stuff 60 stories down the side of the building without damaging it further and then lift several multi-ton generators and huge cooling towers up to the roof. Quite a feat, and the few people who can pull that kind of stuff off make lots of money doing it.

The building owner's insurance carrier sent over an adjuster from GAB who was knowledgeable in fire damage to skyscrapers; the guy actually arrived on the scene before the fire department had left the building. I'm sure there's someone who can be at LAX with minutes if there's any kind of aircraft-damage-related claim.
 
wallybird
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sat May 31, 2014 5:40 am

Back in the early 70's, an AA 707-323, at LAX, was turning into Gate 45 or 46 (east side of satellite 4) and powered-up to get into the gate. Directly across from this area, a WA720-B was preparing for departure at Gate 50 - the flight-deck crew were going thru their checklist when the wake from the 707 got under the horizontal stabilizer of the WA720-B shoving the yoke back against the Captain's hand resulting in a broken thumb. I can't recall the outcome of this incident except for having to call-out a reserve Captain.
 
kraz911
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sat May 31, 2014 7:41 am

If the barricades were provided/installed by the airport I would suspect they would have a group in the mix. A cancelled flight on both ends probably full on both legs, the catering probably needing to be tossed,hotel rooms for all, and a a/c thta needs investication with the pictures and needing all else for the investigation to get started and the loss of revenue while the mechanics to their Thing, DL should be happy with the fat check they will receive,,,  
 
NickLAX
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sat May 31, 2014 4:05 pm

I'm wondering now if most of T4/T5 gates nears landside/parralel to adjacent terminals will be tug in.

For sure TBIT OLD south concourse was tug in to not affect the T4 AA gates with heavies taxiing in under power.
 
platinumfoota
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sat May 31, 2014 6:24 pm

Ramp Karma from the Delta jet blast that blew a ULD off the service road and into a United aircraft that was taxiing, causing damage to the fuselage and canceling the flight. It's only fair   
Never forget United 93
 
strfyr51
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sat May 31, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting aa777lvr (Reply 8):
I'm curious - does DL have any legal recourse to recoup losses (either from LAWA or AA)? I know this is a legal question, but curious what happens in this type of circumstance?


I 'd bet the answer is not from American but possibly from LAWA. If the posts were permenantly mounted. There is no real ground limit for breakaway power to get an airplane moving ..
 
lilxlakerbo1
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:03 am

RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:04 am

Believe I passed by her earlier today driving on Sepulveda where you can see the Delta maintenance hangars. Reg. was N708DN. Link to photo I took is attached. She was getting work done on her left engine.

http://imgur.com/fGtxVWW

[Edited 2014-05-31 20:15:16]
 
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Horstroad
Posts: 504
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:32 am

Quoting lilxlakerbo1 (Reply 16):

http://imgur.com/fGtxVWW

are they replacing the reverser with a forklift?
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1699
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:48 am

Looks as though the forklift is bracing something with strapping.
 
SELMER40
Posts: 224
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:45 pm

Teaching this old dog a new trick
 
lilxlakerbo1
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:03 am

RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting SELMER40 (Reply 19):

Beat me to it! She's on approach into ATL at the current moment. Good to see her back in the air.   
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting lilxlakerbo1 (Reply 20):

Quoting SELMER40 (Reply 19):

Beat me to it! She's on approach into ATL at the current moment. Good to see her back in the air.

If this aircraft was flown to ATL, it probably had temporary repairs made to allow a ferry flight to ATL where permanent repairs could be made up to and including an engine change. The passengers were probably accommodated on other flights on Delta and other airlines.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
B757Forever
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 21):
If this aircraft was flown to ATL, it probably had temporary repairs made to allow a ferry flight to ATL where permanent repairs could be made up to and including an engine change. The passengers were probably accommodated on other flights on Delta and other airlines.

The damaged thrust reverser was replaced at LAX and the aircraft was returned to service. It was flown to ATL because that is the normal rotation for the LR.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 21):
ferry flight to ATL

Flight number of DL369 is a revenue sector, not a ferry...
 
aa777lvr
Posts: 198
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:41 am

Already on its way to Jo-burg.

AA777LVR
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5349
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:23 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 21):
If this aircraft was flown to ATL, it probably had temporary repairs made to allow a ferry flight to ATL where permanent repairs could be made up to and including an engine change. The passengers were probably accommodated on other flights on Delta and other airlines.

Why? The do engine changes in line stations all the time. LAX does plenty of them.

Of course in this case it was a T/R change, also something the AMTs/inspectors can do just fine out in LA.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8566
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:50 am

Quoting horstroad (Reply 17):
are they replacing the reverser with a forklift?

Well, not the way American did on the DC10 if that's what you're referencing. From the photo, it is apparent that they are using a sling. The forklift is simply the arm that's lifting the blocks and sling, which is fine.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:55 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 25):

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 21):
If this aircraft was flown to ATL, it probably had temporary repairs made to allow a ferry flight to ATL where permanent repairs could be made up to and including an engine change. The passengers were probably accommodated on other flights on Delta and other airlines.

Why? The do engine changes in line stations all the time. LAX does plenty of them.

Of course in this case it was a T/R change, also something the AMTs/inspectors can do just fine out in LA.

I am fully aware that engine changes can be accomplished at line stations. I do not know Delta's spare engine policy and where they have them allocated or if they have a pool part agreement in LAX. If they did not have the parts needed to make the aircraft airworthy for passenger service, I simply stated they made temporary repairs to allow a ferry flight to ATL. It is a way of getting an aircraft back into revenue service faster than waiting for parts. The other carrier would also most likely be liable for the cost of the ferry flight.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
Arcrftlvr
Topic Author
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:30 am

RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:25 pm

Quoting aa777lvr (Reply 8):
I'm curious - does DL have any legal recourse to recoup losses (either from LAWA or AA)? I know this is a legal question, but curious what happens in this type of circumstance?
Quoting kraz911 (Reply 12):
If the barricades were provided/installed by the airport I would suspect they would have a group in the mix. A cancelled flight on both ends probably full on both legs, the catering probably needing to be tossed,hotel rooms for all, and a a/c thta needs investication with the pictures and needing all else for the investigation to get started and the loss of revenue while the mechanics to their Thing, DL should be happy with the fat check they will receive,,,
Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 15):

I 'd bet the answer is not from American but possibly from LAWA. If the posts were permenantly mounted. There is no real ground limit for breakaway power to get an airplane moving ..

The barricades were installed by DL (either Ramp or GSE) and they failed to ballast them; they're the temporary plastic orange k-rails. I think this one falls on DL's lap. LAWA shouldn't have any responsibility in this one. Unless there's limits on how much thrust can be used to taxi into a gate, and assuming AA didn't violate that, it appears DL will have to foot the bill for this...
 
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exFWAOONW
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 pm

RE: Jet Blast Damages DL 772 Engine @ LAX

Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting kraz911 (Reply 12):
DL should be happy with the fat check they will receive

I doubt it. There is no calculating pax ill-will after a cancellation, your fault or not.

Quoting platinumfoota (Reply 14):
blew a ULD off the service road

who leaves a ULD on the road? (or did you mean off a cart on the road?)
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?

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