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Luxair
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Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:45 am

This video is just insane! A Piper on final approach to Helgoland (small island in Germany) almost crushed a man on the beach than hit the fence and touched down before the runway! Just watch yourself!
The Plane is a Private owned Piper PA-28 Archer registered D-EIGL.

Here is the link from Bild.de

http://www.bild.de/news/inland/notla...g-auf-helgoland-36213256.bild.html

[Edited 2014-06-01 04:49:48]
 
SWALUV
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:57 am

That guy on the beach can count his lucky stars he wasn't a couple feet closer to the runway.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:07 pm

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 1):
That guy on the beach can count his lucky stars he wasn't a couple feet closer to the runway.

Or a bit fatter!   

Seriously, that was dangerously low.  Wow!
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Luxair
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:12 pm

It seems that the guy was first sitting but lucky for him he plounged forward avoiding the plane hitting his head! Gosh, he must have felt the airflow!
 
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lollomz
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:27 pm

WOW !!! This is a LOW approach..... what lucky man......
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ua900
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:37 pm

Well the video says Piper took out part of the fence and that the plane is currently under repair at ESS, damage must have been mostly cosmetic. Puts SXM to shame though. Lucky he didn't touch the sand.
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:24 pm

Quoting Luxair (Reply 3):
It seems that the guy was first sitting but lucky for him he plounged forward avoiding the plane hitting his head!

I'm not sure he was sitting, but he did seem like his head was raised and looking in the direction of the plane (perhaps cause he heard it coming). But he didn't seem to make any movement as if he were in any danger, other than put his head down, which I'm assuming was to stop from getting any sand in his face from propwash.

Quoting UA900 (Reply 5):
Lucky he didn't touch the sand.

I'd argue that he DID touch the sand. You can see the sand pop up as he touches down. It could be from propwash, but the timing doesn't seem to work for that.
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readytotaxi
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:13 pm

Had he sat up to investigate the incoming sound he would have got a haircut.
Very lucky chap.
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:18 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
Seriously, that was dangerously low.  

Indeed it was. No doubt there will be an investigation from the authorities into how the approach could end up that low.
 
Luxair
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:46 pm

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 6):

You're probably right that he wasn't sitting but I've watched it again and it looks like if he smashed his torso and head down as you can see in the very last 0.10 sec of the movie!

Indeed, I agree with you, he touched down in the sand a few feet ahead of the runway no doubt.
 
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:17 pm

I suppose you could say D-EIGL has landed  

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gocaps16
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:22 pm

When I saw the video on facebook, it only had 12 views on it. Thanks guys for increasing the views for the guy.  
 
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:27 pm

And that's why Germans normally dig holes on beaches.  
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting UA900 (Reply 5):
Lucky he didn't touch the sand.

Pretty sure he did.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 10):
I suppose you could say D-EIGL has landed  

Haha, good one... although there wasn't much tranquility in this scene!
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alberchico
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:55 pm

If this isn't grounds for revoking a pilots licence then I don't know what is. If he can't properly judge his altitude on a bright clear day then what happens at night during a black hole approach ?
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sturmovik
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 10):

I suppose you could say D-EIGL has landed

  

Perhaps a former carrier pilot who mistook the fence for the wire? 
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gordonsmall
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:03 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 14):
If this isn't grounds for revoking a pilots licence then I don't know what is. If he can't properly judge his altitude on a bright clear day then what happens at night during a black hole approach ?

Give yourself a shake boy! Firstly, nobody with any sense is going to be doing a black hole approach, at night, in a Piper single. Secondly, there are dozens of situations that could have caused the approach to be flown lower than expected.

There is not a single person, with the exception of the pilot, who knows why the approach was flown like that. Idle speculation and demands that the pilot be stripped of his licence reflect more on your attitude than the pilots.
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larshjort
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:07 pm

That was a bit too low. The runway was extended 20% in 2006, from 400 to 480 meters

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 10):
I suppose you could say D-EIGL has landed

        
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vfw614
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:34 pm

This guy on the beach was asking for disaster. Surely nobody should stay on the extended centerline that close to the airfield perimeter.
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:24 pm

There's a pilot and/or instructor who should have his license yanked for not initiating a go-around about 5 to 10 seconds earlier.
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 16):
There is not a single person, with the exception of the pilot, who knows why the approach was flown like that.

Rubbish. That wasn't an approach. That was a gargantuan screw-up. I can't believe that any sane person would find any possible justification for the pilot's actions in the video.
 
flyingthe757
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 16):

Were you watching the same video everyone else was? Weather looked fine, no clouds in the sky, there should be absolutely no reason why he was so low, so low he hits the fence and lands on sand. He could have killed that sunbather!
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 21):
Were you watching the same video everyone else was? Weather looked fine, no clouds in the sky, there should be absolutely no reason why he was so low, so low he hits the fence and lands on sand. He could have killed that sunbather!

I've never read so much rubbish in my life. Have you any concept of the phenomenon of windshear? Thats just one explanation which cannot be accounted for on that video. Most of the posts on this thread are just idle speculation by people who have no facts on the situation, no knowledge of the subject in general and a total inability to detract from sensationalist nonsense.
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flyingthe757
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 22):

Windshear??? I just re watched the video again and see the plane coming in, in a straight line, and can't off hand see the control surfaces, or indeed the aircraft struggling at all.
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 23):
Windshear??? I just re watched the video again and see the plane coming in, in a straight line, and can't off hand see the control surfaces, or indeed the aircraft struggling at all.

Which only proves that you don't know anything about windshear. Windshear can be very subtle , a small change in wind direction or strength can cause a small but rapid increase in sinkrate which if you are late on in the approach by the time you have arrested the descent would leave you low on the approach. You would barely see it from the outside, it's barely noticeable from the inside, which is how so many pilots get caught out by it. Don't make the mistake of assuming that windshear is how it is portrayed on over-dramatised TV shows.

I'm not saying that was the cause of the incident here, I have no evidence to support that, but I also have zero evidence to support that it was pilot error and neither does anyone else. Do the sensible thing and wait for the report, which will state the facts as known, and then lambast the pilot to your hearts content if its warranted.
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flyingthe757
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:35 pm

No one else post anything until the report comes out,

Speculation is not allowed
 
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:39 pm

There is a sign in the sand there, wonder if it says something like "don't sunbathe here!" or "very low flying traffic KEEP CLEAR"
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gordonsmall
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting timpdx (Reply 26):
There is a sign in the sand there, wonder if it says something like "don't sunbathe here!" or "very low flying traffic KEEP CLEAR"

Perhaps people on the, er, larger side should be NOTAM'd as a temporary obstacle.   
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atcsundevil
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:25 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 27):
Perhaps people on the, er, larger side should be NOTAM'd as a temporary obstacle.

At least on days when this guy is flying. They should NOTAM the damn beach while they're at it!
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:58 pm

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 25):
No one else post anything until the report comes out,

Speculation is not allowed


CASE CLOSED.
 
aviatorcraig
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:06 am

Give the guy a break, he probably only holds a student PPL, but when he has worked through to his ATPL he can apply to Asiana to fly their B777s   
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smokeybandit
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:26 am

So...was this a planned stunt?


Outside of the fool of a pilot, what fool would be sunbathing right in line of landing aircraft?
 
cschleic
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:42 am

Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 31):
So...was this a planned stunt?


Outside of the fool of a pilot, what fool would be sunbathing right in line of landing aircraft?

Sort of have to wonder. There's a large group of people off to the right of the plane.
 
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Vio
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:18 am

This whole thing is idiotic from many angles.

1. WTF is that pilot doing? He's way low, very little power and he completely smoked that pole fence, touched down on the sand prior to runway.

2. Why was that guy sunbathing 10 feet away from the end of the runway?


Dumb dumb dumb...

It's morons like these that give responsible private pilots bad names.
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SuseJ772
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting alberchico (Reply 14):
If this isn't grounds for revoking a pilots licence then I don't know what is. If he can't properly judge his altitude on a bright clear day then what happens at night during a black hole approach ?
Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 19):

There's a pilot and/or instructor who should have his license yanked for not initiating a go-around about 5 to 10 seconds earlier.

I am with gordonsmall on this one - we know nothing about it. For all we know the engine had a fuel problem or another power issue of some sort. I guess Sully should have his license revoked for landing in a river. Or the pilots of the BA 777 have their license revoked for landing short of the runway at LHR? Maybe this was an amazing landing. Maybe it wasn't. But making a judgement call that his license should be revoked simply from this video is prejudicious.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 18):
This guy on the beach was asking for disaster. Surely nobody should stay on the extended centerline that close to the airfield perimeter.

That's what I was wondering too. I'd love to be at this beach, but I am not sunbathing on centerline with my eyes closed.

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 25):
No one else post anything until the report comes out,

Speculation is not allowed

That isn't what anyone was saying. Speculation is fine. Saying the pilot's license should be yanked with out the facts is different than speculation, it's accusation.

[Edited 2014-06-01 18:50:41]
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CO777DAL
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:45 am

Captian Wi Tu Lo strikes again! On a serious note this guy needs a thorough checkride after a landing like that. There is no excuse for a landing like that on a day with good weather.
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YoungMans
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:55 am

It seems insane to have a fence that close to the end of a runway.

The bloke, too, probably didn't know what he was doing sunbathing that close to the edge.

Can't have been a very strong wire, either ....
 
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sturmovik
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:45 am

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 36):
Can't have been a very strong wire, either ....

That may actually have been a good thing. It could've ended very badly for the pilot and the plane otherwise..
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txlbased
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:54 am

Quoting vio (Reply 33):

my first thoughts also!

- the approach was way too low!
- he hit the parameter fence!
- he touches down before the runway!

- and what on earth is that guy doing there on the beach?? in the future they should move the perimeter fence a few feet closer to the shore....

ok, the runway in EDXH is only 1310ft long, thats really really short, but THAT approach was an absolut NO GO!
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whisperjet
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:08 am

This picture gives a good impression of the RWY 33 approach area. It's strange that the guy chose this spot for sunbathing but in contrast to some of the other ends of the runways in Helgoland there is no traffic light indicating approaching planes which might have made believe the area was save enough.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stefan Sonnenberg

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Luxair
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:06 am

Some more info from Bild. They interviewed the pilot who is a 52 year old engineer, holding a PPL and the guy admitted to having completely screwed-up the approach! He said further that he stop talking now to the press as some official investigations will start soon!
 
chris7217
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:07 am

I wonder why the local authorities do not increase the "airport" perimeter and completely close the particular beach area to prevent accidents.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:15 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
Quoting SWALUV (Reply 1):
That guy on the beach can count his lucky stars he wasn't a couple feet closer to the runway.

Or a bit fatter!

Seriously, that was dangerously low. Wow!

If he breathed in there may have been an accident  
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whisperjet
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:30 am

Quoting Chris7217 (Reply 41):

I wonder why the local authorities do not increase the "airport" perimeter and completely close the particular beach area to prevent accidents.

Absolutely impossible. Just have a look at the airport on google maps. The island is highly depending on tourism and closing down this particular part of the beach would basically mean a huge drawback for tourists.

Also the island is built on a dune and since Helgoland is an off-shore island it is not really possible to increase the area of the airport.

Therefore the only consequences could be some (higher) requirements for the pilots who fly to this airport or a complete closure for general aviation purposes.
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alberchico
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:24 am

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 16):
Give yourself a shake boy! Firstly, nobody with any sense is going to be doing a black hole approach, at night, in a Piper single. Secondly, there are dozens of situations that could have caused the approach to be flown lower than expected.
Quoting Luxair (Reply 40):
Some more info from Bild. They interviewed the pilot who is a 52 year old engineer, holding a PPL and the guy admitted to having completely screwed-up the approach! He said further that he stop talking now to the press as some official investigations will start soon!

Told you so. This was an obvious case of pilot error....
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gordonsmall
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:13 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 45):
Told you so. This was an obvious case of pilot error....

With the greatest of respect, I think you're displaying a level of hubris that will surely be your downfall. There is no confirmed reports of the pilot admitting anything, just an alleged claim in a notoriously dodgy newspaper with a history of making things up.

I'll still wait for the official report, you know the one written by experienced professionals as opposed to childish "I told you so ...." justice by 21-25 year old kids on the internet.  
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LH707330
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:22 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 46):
With the greatest of respect, I think you're displaying a level of hubris that will surely be your downfall. There is no confirmed reports of the pilot admitting anything, just an alleged claim in a notoriously dodgy newspaper with a history of making things up.

Agreed here. Even respectable newspapers get things wrong with these sorts of things, it's always good to wait for the BFU to come out with their report.

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 46):
justice by 21-25 year old kids on the internet.

Is this necessary? jetblueguy22 and a handful of other respected contributors are in this age bucket as well, please don't be ageist.
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:32 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 47):
Is this necessary? jetblueguy22 and a handful of other respected contributors are in this age bucket as well, please don't be ageist.

Sadly, I think it is. If a 20-odd year old kid makes wild accusations on the internet, and then tries to justify them with statements along the lines of "I told you so!" then I'm afraid that person has shown he is not mature enough to be taken seriously by people who know better. That doesn't mean everyone in that age bracket should be ignored, just the ones who demonstrate arrogance and a lack of respect by making unfounded accusations on the basis of amatuer video footage on the internet. There are plenty of older people who's opinion has no value either, there are no shortage of retired and self-professed 'Skygods' who make sweeping statements of fact with nothing to back them up, I can't stand them either.

IMHO the people worth listening to are the ones who can see both sides of a coin, and are willing to accept that in the abscence of any hard evidence they are statistically just as likely to be wrong as anyone else, and will qualify any statements they make with that in mind.
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Tobias2702
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:29 am

Another amateur video of this approach has been published, again by www.bild.de. You can see that the guy on the beach plunges down to avoid being hit by the plane. I couldn't find a direct link, to watch it you need to scroll down on their homepage until you reach the "Top Videos" section.

As a side note, pay attention because this website is possibly not entirely safe to use at work, at least from some countries' point of view regarding public decency.
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bjorn14
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RE: Insane Low Approach On Helgoland Germany

Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:44 am

I read in another paper, the pilot admitting "it was not his finest hour" He even went and apologized to the sunbather.
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