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na
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:22 am

Heavens forbid. Smoking in a narrow tube with no way out - how could that ever have been allowed in the past?
I remember headaches and stinky clothes. And yellowish plastic coverings in the plane.

Quoting eielef (Thread starter):
I would flew that airline, without even checking whats the extra price for a smoker sit. I prefer smoker than business or first.

Sorry, but then you are a drug addict.

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
Why so? It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.

A smoking ban against a drug that disturbs the majority is not discrimination.

Quoting FedExFlyerPHL (Reply 23):

Smoking should never be allowed anywhere except in the smokers own residence or vehicle. No one should be subjected to having to breath that crap. I too would never fly an airplane again if they allowed smoking on it.

Fully agreed. Smoking is a bad habit carried over from the past, an act of self destruction, nonsense, a waste of money, and overall a health hazard to the public. Its a bit like reckless speeding in traffic, only with far, far more deaths.
The smoking ban is one of the best things governments have done in my life time.
Btw, smoking in the smokers residence or car, imho that should also be punishable if the smoker has kids. A person who poisons his kids is not a responsible person.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:28 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
Why so? It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.

That's one of the worst popular arguments we see nowadays, "it could" is such a loose term and "discrimination" is often a good thing. I discriminate against thieves by not hiring one etc.

Now pubs and clubs are non smoking, I am much more sensitive to smoke. A single smoker walking past with that trail in their wake is enough to make me gag. I shudder at the lunacy of non smoking sections in buses of all things back in the day.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:34 am

Tell you what ace. Spend a decade or more hooked to O2 tanks just to live like both my parents and then lets discuss this idea of enabling smokers.

You want to smoke, I'm fine with that as long as it in no way impacts me. Paying more for a ticket just so a minority population addicted to a dangerous drug can do so in my presence is kinda the opposite of "in no way impacts me".

It would be like PAYING meth heads to hang out at the local burger joint so I can savor the experience of the bad times they are "enjoying" since they haven't scored recently.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:57 am

Quoting eielef (Thread starter):
Why don't they start, with the latest technologies, using planes where there is a smokers cabin, and that doesn't disturb the other passengers?

Because there is no technology that is selective enough to not disturb any other passenger, especially in the premium cabins where profits are made. To paraphrase my answer to a Cathay Pacific survey on smoking onboard after a flight in their first class cabin (many years ago of course), what's the difference between row 1 non-smoking and row 2 smoking? Any airline that allows smoking again is bound to lose a lot more premium customers than it will gain.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:05 am

Anyone remembering SMINTAIR? Stands for SMokers INTernational AIR.

Some Clown from DUS wanted to establish an Airline flying DUS-NRT with a 744 for smokers only. He got a bit more than his famous 15 minutes.

It is amazing how the media picked that stupid idea up and gave him a Chance to tell his BS on TV Radio and newsprint.

Besides that his idea would not have worked for reaqsons already stated here, he could never have operated that large aircraft fully loaded from DUS, not speaking that he would have had no feed on both Ends.

But he was a heavy smoker, wonder what happened to him, probably kicking daisys.
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mandala499
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:20 am

As a smoker (and used to be a heavy one), I gotta say, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

Quoting eielef (Thread starter):
Why don't they start, with the latest technologies, using planes where there is a smokers cabin, and that doesn't disturb the other passengers?

Sorry, not gonna work. How about a cubicle...
Let's say, pay $2 a minute for a smoking cubicle in some part of the plane...
Would you pay? That's just for the space of the cubicle in terms of seat space.
Now, if the airline wants to charge $20 a minute, would you still pay?

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
Why so? It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.
I'd like to know if there is a chance of having some legal bases on this quote...

Is it really discrimination? Blame the inconsiderate smokers who in the past smoke in front of people who did not want to get exposure to secondary smoke... If you want to blame someone for discrimination, blame them!

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):
If you are a pilot, of course! You can do what you want up the front...

No you can't. Many airlines specifically prohibit smoking in the cockpit for maintenance cost reasons. The tar in the smoke sticks to bearings, joints etc, and causes friction to circulation fans, and also solidify the lubrication... you end up with... all of a sudden, smoke coming out of the ventilation.... the cost of the diversion... not small! 
Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 13):
On the flip side, I would avoid an airline like the plague if they allowed smoking on board and I can assure you I'm not alone.

Am a smoker, and I too, would avoid that airline like a plague!

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 14):
Secondly, cleaning costs have gone down dramatically since smoking was prohibited, and I'm not so sure smokers would be willing enough to pay a high enough premium for the increased cost of modifying aircraft and cleaning etc.

Not only cleaning costs, but also reliability of certain components, have improved since. The savings, is what we enjoy today.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 14):
If you really can't stand going on a long-haul flight without smoking, split the flight into two flights and have a smoking break somewhere in between.

That's what I would do... but then, I just go by with no great difficulty...

Quoting eielef (Reply 16):
Are flight crews trained on knowing when they should stop giving a passenger alcohol? When it will become too dangerous? It could even risk the safety on the plane, as for instance pretending (while being drunk) that he has a weapon or he has a bomb.

In many countries they are by law required to stop serving to passengers intoxicated by alcohol.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 19):
I would fight any campaign to allow it in aircraft again.

Ironically, as a smoker, I would too!
Smoking is a luxury, it's not basic fundamental human right... to not be exposed to carcinogens, is.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):
Addiction.

If the "addiction" goes to the level that prompted this topic to be raised, it's not addiction... it's selfishness.

Quoting eielef (Reply 27):
Lets move to something smaller. Why aren't smoker lounges in all airports? Why do you ban them too? Don't we have any right?

You follow the laws of the land you're in. If that country doesn't allow smoker lounges, then tough luck!
If a non-smoker goes into a country where smoking is allowed anywhere, then he/she also has to put up with it.
It goes both ways.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 28):
The city of Melbourne in Australia is planning to go one step further and ban smoking, period, including on public streets and sidewalks (they plan to put up dedicated smoking shelters that smokers can duck into and close the door so that nobody else breathes in the smoke). That is the way the world is moving, not the other way around.

I disagree to going up this far, but again, if they've enacted this law, then if I go Melbourne, I have to abide by it instead of screaming it's discrimination against me. I can go outside the city limits and smoke even if the smoke enters Melbourne city territory :p But, that's a technicality issue.
---
I do wish fellow smokers are more considerate to non-smokers... a little courtesy to non-smokers would have prevented a lot of these so called "measures against smoking and smokers"...

At least I feel fortunate to be able to spend a few days without or with very few cigarettes nowadays... Coz smokers with bad attitude will make that a no-choice for me sometime in the future.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:28 am

Fifty years after the extreme danger of smoking became public knowledge and there are still people fool enough to smoke.   

But no, even with the large number of still foolish people around it would not be economically sound.
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:31 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 55):
I disagree to going up this far

For the record, so do I.

Given that Australia already has laws about being a certain distance (I think it is 5m) from a building entrance, I don't really see what this adds. As you aren't allowed to stand in a doorwell so that everyone walking in or out goes through smoke, the only real impact is for people walking down the street, which should only be a fleeting moment.
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JBH
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:41 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.

By that logic, a sexual addict (normally an addiction not by choice) should be able to have sex on board...

I am sorry, but I believe the problem here is not the airline but you. You have an addiction, that in my opinion you should do something about. Why does the airline and all other passengers on board have to go out of their why to help you with your addiction?

BTW, smoking in the bathrooms? Serious disrespect to other users (kids go in there too).
 
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RWA380
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:44 am

Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 4):

I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would want it back on aircraft.

When smoking was allowed on commercial flights, the smoking section was in the back of the respective cabin. Although respectful smokers sat back there, many more sat in non-smoking and would get up and stand in the aisle or in the aft galley to have a smoke every hour or so, there was always aisle traffic issues, trying to push service carts down the aisles, and forget about seeing the movie up on the big screen with everyone standing around chatting.

The worst was right after meal service, when the trays were picked up, at that moment half the plane all migrated to the back of the plane, impeding the flight attendants. I remember lots of flights to and from Hawaii when I was a teenager, where I would "go to the bathroom" and have a quickie smoke, before sitting back with my folks for a few more hours.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
there are health consequences for you and those around you

Which is why this will never be allowed again. You are free to kill yourself by smoking cigarettes, but when you expect others around you to be exposed to that second hand poison, then that makes it is not your decision.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):
If you are a pilot, of course! You can do what you want up the front

What can pilots smoke up front? (evil grin)

Quoting eielef (Reply 9):
I was surprised how you consider a smoker a real second class citizen.

It is amazing isn't it? We American do enjoy chastising our cigarette smoking citizens, in fact at this time and point in America, it is more socially acceptable to smoke marijuana than cigarettes. Cigars and Pipes excluded.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 12):
That leads to the second issue - your 'smoker cabin' would likely have a premium added to the ticket costs of 25 to 50 % and even then the airline would be very unlikely to break even of the aircraft modification costs

How about one bathroom, about mid-cabin that you sit in for 10 minutes max, have your smoke then it is the next persons turn, the carrier can charge a buck a minute. The room will have airtight doors, a wicked fast air circulation system, and air neuturelizer.

No one here has stated the obvious, that will end ythis thread now, The reality is, no one is not allowed to take a lighter or matches on a plane through TSA, so no one could light a cigarette anyway.

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 13):
I would avoid an airline like the plague if they allowed smoking on board and I can assure you I'm not alone

I think most people would. As was stated above, people who smoke and travel are now used to flying nicotene free, and there is no way planes are currently circulating air like they did back in the 70s when we were smoking on board.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 31):
Anyone remember the Muse Air smokers kit? It was a small box with some mint candies in it and a few brochures about how to quit smoking from the American Cancer Society.

No, never heard of them, but it sounds like a great gimick, and I'd love to have one for my collection.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 42):

There's an easy solution to the 'problem': Become a millionaire or, even better, a billionaire and buy your own aircraft, then set your own rules.

This I am 100% on board with, you have the best idea here. Although no cigarettes on my G650, but smoking is definately allowed.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 43):
Those e-cigarettes are worse than normal ones. When I commute on the train, there is a guy smoking one at the train station and it stinks way more than any normal cigarette.

There are so many flavors and scents available now, and many of them smell like cat piss & skunk ass combined.

Quoting chiad (Reply 46):
I anticipate that smoking will be banned in every country in the developed world within 25 years

No it won't, Americans are legalizing smoking marijuana now in two states, expect seveal more soon. Cigarettes have become the scurge of humanity, but our culture is embracing marijuana, and cigars have a large following after a decade of continued growth with the refined cigar events that transpire wordwide. And certainly not in Japan or China.
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:52 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 59):
The reality is, no one is not allowed to take a lighter or matches on a plane through TSA

You can take a standard cigarette lighter through TSA. It's only the zippo lighters that they don't allow.
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RWA380
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:09 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 60):
You can take a standard cigarette lighter through TSA

But not the compressed gas to refill it.
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EIDL
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:16 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 27):
Don't we have any right?

In this case, no. Unless you actually want a never cleaned, airlocked pit with no external ventilation of any description because that's about the only thing that could contain smoke in a sufficient manner to get around workplace smoking rules.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:21 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 59):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):
If you are a pilot, of course! You can do what you want up the front

An old pilot who flew DC-3s in his heyday once told me that they would regularly smoke in the cockpit with the window slightly open during flight . Ah the joys of un pressurized airplanes!

But coming back to the discussion, it is very correct that smoking is now banned in all airplanes. I hate nothing more than the smell of stale tobacco    . And there is the damage caused due to passive smoking even in non-smokers.

I believe that some airlines in remote Africa and the CIS republics still turn a blind eye to smoking? Is it true?
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autothrust
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:23 am

Quoting FedExFlyerPHL (Reply 23):
Smoking should never be allowed anywhere except in the smokers own residence or vehicle. No one should be subjected to having to breath that crap. I too would never fly an airplane again if they allowed smoking on it.

Spot on! I get sick from second hand smoke alone and the malodour sets on the clothing and stinks for days until you wash them.

Forbid smoking everywhere except privat rooms.
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JimJupiter
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:29 am

Quoting FedExFlyerPHL (Reply 23):
Smoking should never be allowed anywhere except in the smokers own residence or vehicle. No one should be subjected to having to breath that crap.

I think people should be only allowed to start their car engine inside their own garage. No one should have to breathe in that crap. While in public - ride a bike.
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mandala499
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:35 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 63):
An old pilot who flew DC-3s in his heyday once told me that they would regularly smoke in the cockpit with the window slightly open during flight . Ah the joys of un pressurized airplanes!

I used to do that on the C402B...   
Those were the days!
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aviationaware
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:38 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 27):
Why do you ban them too? Don't we have any right?

Those who say I'm killing myself, its my choice.

It is a widely accepted practice that an individuals rights end at the point where exercising them would constrain other people in their rights. By smoking, you deprave other people of their right for health and clean air, hence you are forbidden to do it.
You may smoke at your own place as much as you want and destroy yourself, but as soon as other people have to breathe that stench, it's their business as well and that's where your limit is.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:41 am

The health issues are one significant thing, but by far the bigger factor in ensuring smoking is never permitted on planes again is the safety concern.

Here we are in a little aluminium tube, surrounded by highly flammable material. That's why don't we allow folks to start and maintain little fires.   
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seahawk
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:42 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 59):
There are so many flavors and scents available now, and many of them smell like cat piss & skunk ass combined.

One day he had "strawberry or something" disgusting fails to describe it and you still could smell it 10+ meters away.
 
eielef
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:55 am

Interesting points of view of all you. I've liked that idea of having sort of a toilet for smokers only. I wouldn't care on paying for it. I posted on O'Leary twitter, who always enjoy new ideas!

The smoking ban in our country is quite new. In public offices its completely banned, although no one cares, as there is no sanction if you smoke. Worst would be someone asking you, politely or not, to stop smoking.
In private places, as for instance my office, the state has almost no jurisdiction on it. So, if the owner of the building or the boss decides it will be a smoker building, it will. In my office we most smoke, and all my firm is a smokers place. All employees and visitors are allowed to smoke.

Those ideas of Marihuana smoking (i've seen that also in Netherlands, Belgium and Uruguay) I don't believe is smart. First it comes marihuana, and soon will come cocaine or worse things. I wouldn't like to live in a country were you can smoke weed and even buy it in a shop, as cigarettes.

All marihuana, alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. But the first two can make you lost the control of your acts. Cigarettes won't. Thats why it shouldn't be considered a drug.

Last but not least, passive smoking is bad, so is CO2 polluted cities, as most in the mother world. Even think on MEX or DAL. They even smell bad. Well, CO2 kills directly 230,000 people a year. Why don't we ban heavy machines, engines, and all other CO2 producers?

And how did the number of lungs cancer INCREASED in the last 25 years, after all this efforts on banning smoking, laws, green life and charging stupid money for cigarettes (even more than 10U$S for a 20 cigs package).
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:58 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 45):
Then again, I've seen Cinnabon "restaurants" in almost every major US airport I've been to, and there has always been plenty of people in line. If that's not making an active choice to die, what is?

No one is arguing the fact that there are many ways to actively kill oneself, but the point that some are missing is that smoking not only actively kills the smoker, but anyone in the vicinity of that smoker. No offense to smokers (many of whom are good friends of mine), but I think it is an extremely selfish habit. I choose to be a healthy person, but I am forced to inhale second hand smoke when walking down the street on a daily basis. I eagerly look forward to the day that smoking is eradicated (smokers should look forward to that day as well for their own well being).
 
txlbased
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:03 pm

NO, never let people smoke on planes again! there are thousand reasons not to let them smoke, and no single one to let them. addicted or not, we would also never allow someone to consume drugs on board, no? smoke of cigarettes etc is highly dangerous to the active smokers and all people around them.

i remember the times where passengers (and crew) where allowed to smoke on board, and i am so happy that these times are over!
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eielef
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:13 pm

Last time I smoked on a plane was in April 2004, on two Air Berlin flights, DTM-PMI-MAD... GERMANY rules!
 
ChinaClipper40
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:18 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Those ideas of Marihuana smoking (i've seen that also in Netherlands, Belgium and Uruguay) I don't believe is smart. First it comes marihuana, and soon will come cocaine or worse things. I wouldn't like to live in a country were you can smoke weed and even buy it in a shop, as cigarettes.

Addiction is a disease. A disease that causes more medical morbidity and mortality than the next three diseases (diabetes, cancer, heart disease) combined. Nicotine is the most addictive substance known to medical science. Much more addictive than cocaine, heroin, or alcohol. Do yourself (and your friends and loved ones) a favor - get yourself into a quality addiction treatment program and stay in it until you have kicked the habit.

As for a return of smoking in passenger airliners, forget it. It isn't going to happen. For all the reasons posted, and many more.
 
lpdal
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:19 pm

I'm not quite old enough to be from the time when smoking was allowed on flights, but I do find it interesting that such a practice was ever permitted--for instance, in Argo, you can see Tony Mendez light up a smoke in what appears to be the farthest aft Y cabin of the SR 741 (742?) then proceed to put it out in the cup holder indent of the tray table--which doesn't seem very good for the aircraft! Also, smoke leaves behind a visible residue that may vary in color spectrum to brown all the way up to black--hence why many hotels here and abroad have strict warnings about cleaning fees should a guest decide to have a smoke in their room/suite.

Personally, I detest smoking--it has no posiitive gain, the people who do smoke smell terrible and are often oblivious to the damage their habit is causing for not only the people around them, but also the enviroment which has to clean up the CO2 released.
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:32 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 9):
Why don't you consider that way those people who drink alcohol?

What's it to me if you have a beer or two? It's your liver that gets wasted. When smoking, both your lungs and mine get affected.

Quoting eielef (Reply 9):
You even allow them board on a plane, and you even offer (for free or not) lots of drinks with alcohol. Why do you offer wine and not cigarettes, which are even cheaper...

Who's you? I can pretty much guarantee that US airlines don't allow intoxicated passengers aboard.

Quoting eielef (Reply 16):
I'd really like to see some studies if that really affects you and how much. In the article I posted before it said that for a flight attendant in the smoker sector, flying 40 hours a week, 24 years, it would affect in the same way than it would have affect her smoking herself one full cigarette.

Second hand smoke. Look it up.

Quoting eielef (Reply 16):
A passenger starts drinking. I've seen this in Russia, where I've lived, and drinking vodka (or other beverages with over 35% of alcohol) is very popular. The cabin crew always tells to the passengers that free drinks will be provided, but that it's prohibited for them to open their duty free bottles. Nevertheless, most open them, as in a long trip, like MOW-NYC.

That Russia has lax rules doesn't mean every country has them. You can bet that if a FA or an agent has suspicions about a drunk passenger, they'll be denied boarding, even if it's the last flight of the day.

Quoting Doona (Reply 45):
Then again, I've seen Cinnabon "restaurants" in almost every major US airport I've been to, and there has always been plenty of people in line. If that's not making an active choice to die, what is?

Has their choice to stuff themselves with Cinnabons affected you directly? Do you get diabetes from watching them eat?

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 59):
Quoting eielef (Reply 9):
I was surprised how you consider a smoker a real second class citizen.

It is amazing isn't it? We American do enjoy chastising our cigarette smoking citizens, in fact at this time and point in America, it is more socially acceptable to smoke marijuana than cigarettes. Cigars and Pipes excluded.

Here's the thing: what health concerns exist from smoking marihuana? Of course, we still have the same issue: second hand smoke. The fact that I can smoke my pot now doesn't mean I'm entitled to more privileges. I'd still have to abide by the same rules and if smoking is prohibited somewhere, then that's it.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Last but not least, passive smoking is bad, so is CO2 polluted cities, as most in the mother world. Even think on MEX or DAL. They even smell bad. Well, CO2 kills directly 230,000 people a year. Why don't we ban heavy machines, engines, and all other CO2 producers?

Well, recently there was news of an ambitious plan to cut back CO2 emissions...anyone care to open a thread on how that is a good/bad idea?

eielef, you seem to be justifying your desire to smoke by bring examples of other things. You first mentioned how people wish to kill themselves by being obese...but they being obese isn't affecting you in anyway. They'll get diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. and your body will still function just fine.

You brought CO2 levels. Do you use a bike? Walk? A zero emissions car? Then unfortunately, that is an unnecessary evil that we've accepted as the norm. Government regulations slowly try to roll back emission levels to avoid situations of smog and unhealthy air but, as usual, politics get in the way, so this is pretty much the status quo, we're all equally exposed to CO2 levels. Don't make my exposure worse by having to breathe in the gunk you smoke.
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tockeyhockey
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:38 pm

one of the main groups you'd have to deal with is the flight attendants:

http://www.famri.org/core/

they have won huge lawsuits over cancer caused by second hand smoke. no airline is going to risk those lawsuits again.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:50 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 73):
Last time I smoked on a plane was in April 2004, on two Air Berlin flights, DTM-PMI-MAD... GERMANY rules!

Luckily this has been banned by German rules today.
 
mandala499
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:50 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
I've liked that idea of having sort of a toilet for smokers only. I wouldn't care on paying for it.

My question: Would you pay for it if it was $2 a minute or $5 a minute or $10 a minute for the previlege of using the smokers' toilet onboard?
If you wouldn't care on paying for it, and that if there are many people who wouldn't care how much they have to pay for it, then the business case would be there and someone would try it.
Now, with those prices, would you?

And, the increase in cabin cleaning costs, and cabin overhaul, as well as maintenance costs thanks to tar deposits... would you complain if it means a rise in ticket costs?

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
In my office we most smoke, and all my firm is a smokers place. All employees and visitors are allowed to smoke.

That was what we said when that ban initially came where we are. Once enforcements started happening... the numbers of smoker offices went down drastically. Then smoker rooms were allowed, and you know what, people ended up having to decide what's more important for them... their work, or their cigarette... it wasn't long before they realize they need to work to get money to buy the cigarettes...
And this is in a country where a pack of 16 is only $1 to $1.5

No smoking in airplanes is also not an issue. There was a survey done a few years ago about whether they want smoking in airplanes to be allowed again... majority answered: No.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
First it comes marihuana, and soon will come cocaine or worse things. I wouldn't like to live in a country were you can smoke weed and even buy it in a shop, as cigarettes.

First comes cigarettes, then marijuana, then....
Statistics here show that smokers have a higher likelihood of using other stuff...

The major blow to smokers here was, not by legislation, but by market economics, when the health insurers decided to provide less benefits for smokers.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
And how did the number of lungs cancer INCREASED in the last 25 years, after all this efforts on banning smoking, laws, green life and charging stupid money for cigarettes (even more than 10U$S for a 20 cigs package).

Well, maybe the number of smokers increased. Over where I am, the number of smoking related diseases increased with the number of smokers. Numbers of people dead due to cancer, also followed the same trend... thanks to a larger number of smokers.
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aviationaware
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:51 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 73):
Last time I smoked on a plane was in April 2004, on two Air Berlin flights, DTM-PMI-MAD... GERMANY rules!

We have since introduced a ban on smoking in all public transportation (since 2007) as well as basically all public indoor spaces with few exceptions (since 2009).
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:52 pm

Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 4):
I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would want it back on aircraft...
Quoting iahcsr (Reply 21):
Also consider what smoking does to the aircraft itself. The nicotine gets into everything in the cabin and air circulation system. If you ever see pics of DC10s from the smoking days look at the outflow vent on the lower left forward fuselage. The brown streak behind it is nicotine from cigarette smoke
Quoting StTim (Reply 49):
I was told it was easier to spot some maintenance issues around the fuselage (such as rivets that were not properly tight) in the smoking days as there would be a trail of brown nicotine from them.

Oh, when smoking was allowed, we found pressurization leaks immediately, the big ones around door seals especially. No need to pressurize the aircraft to find the leak, just follow the brown streaks. Finding door leaks reported by the Flight Attendants were the best, the streak would pinpoint exactly where the leak was coming from. There has been a whole generation of Technicians that never found a leak from the brown streak it left behind. I am not a smoker, so I do like the smoke free environment onboard along with the reduced fire hazard. Trying to remember working on those old smoking airplanes, IIRC there were areas that a brown tinted residue was stuck on everything. Nowadays, it is a grey dust that sticks everywhere, dead human cells that cling everywhere. The benefits of no smoking onboard outweigh the risks of smoking, it will never come back.
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alfa164
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:30 pm

Quoting eielef (Thread starter):
But in my country, at least 35% of people smokes

35% of the people in your country need to get their heads examined...

Smoking is a filthy, unhealthy addiction, that not only kills the smoker but presents a danger to anyone around him/her. As people in more developed (i.e., educated) countries stop smoking, tobacco companies are desperately trying to peddle their wares to more undeveloped areas. Such are the tactics of big businesses that have no concern for the menace their product create. You should know better.
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lpdal
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:54 pm

Also, wouldn't the EICAS in any current production airliner have to be re-engineered in order to distinguish cigarette smoke from a fire? How does that work?
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max999
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:04 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
Why so? It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.
I'd like to know if there is a chance of having some legal bases on this quote...

When you smoke, you're taking a health risk. People take risks all the time - like not wearing a seatbelt in a car. This is perfectly fine because you only hurt yourself if something goes wrong.

However, second hand smoke hurts everyone around you. I did not consent to taking that health risk, but you're forcing me to partake in it.

This is why smoking should not be allowed in any public place.

[Edited 2014-06-04 07:11:04]
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citationjet
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:07 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 27):
Those who say I'm killing myself, its my choice. Those who eat fat are also killing themselves too, or those who use oil, salt, sugar, etc.etc.etc. And, think wise: how many people die in this two groups? 1st. Those who smoke and die after lungs cancer, or 2nd. Those who have fat or salt in their diet, and die from fat a heart failure?

Let them kill themselves - the key word is "themselves". By smoking you are affecting people WITHOUT their choice. Those who eat fat, use oil, salt, sugar, etc are not impacting those people who are around them when they are consuming it. Smoking affects more than just the person smoking, it impacts those innocent people next to them. If I am sitting next to a person eating fast food, I am not going to get fat.....
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citationjet
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:11 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 68):
Here we are in a little aluminium tube, surrounded by highly flammable material. That's why don't we allow folks to start and maintain little fires.

  

I am amazed that years ago passengers were allowed to stand in the aisle directly over a wing fuel tank filled with Jet-A and light a cigarette with an open flame at 35,000 ft over the middle of the ocean.
Even if we would allow cigarettes, how would you ever light them, since matches and lighters have been banned from being taken on board?
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DexSwart
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:14 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 28):
The city of Melbourne in Australia is planning to go one step further and ban smoking, period, including on public streets and sidewalks (they plan to put up dedicated smoking shelters that smokers can duck into and close the door so that nobody else breathes in the smoke).

Which is why I'm a proud Melbournian. Or Melburnian, depending on your fancy.

Tasmania was playing around with the idea of banning sales to anyone born after the year 2000, stop an entire generation from lighting up.

On to the topic at hand.

Smoking is archaic. It's 2014. People know the risks. Those who decide to continue smoking, must do so at their own risks. No one else's. Brunei even has a blanket ban on tobacco products I think that's perfect.

Now, moving on to an unrelated point.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Those ideas of Marihuana smoking (i've seen that also in Netherlands, Belgium and Uruguay) I don't believe is smart. First it comes marihuana, and soon will come cocaine or worse things. I wouldn't like to live in a country were you can smoke weed and even buy it in a shop, as cigarettes.

Anything can be a gateway to anything else. Be careful teaching your kids to use a knife. It'll become a machete in no time.

Also, crimes have actually gone DOWN in Denver since marijuana was legalised. (And earned Colorado a heck of a lot of money in tax revenue.)

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
All marihuana, alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. But the first two can make you lost the control of your acts. Cigarettes won't. Thats why it shouldn't be considered a drug.

A drug can be anything that has an effect on your body. Ie, a drug. Nicotine has a stimulant and addictive effect on your body. It is a drug.

As an aside, have you ever tried marjuana? The worst act I've ever seen committed amongst some of my peers is probably falling off a chair eating Doritos. Also, there is no recorded case of a death directly linked to marijuana.

We learn most of this stuff in Year 9 health class nowadays.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
imant
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:32 pm

I hope smoking will be banned from closed areas such as aircraft cabins... It is a filthy and disgusting habit, people can do it at home, but please do not poison others around...

With alternative options everybody has the most suitable choice to "survive" also the longest flights...

As an ex cabin crew I know that people will always sneak into the lavatories and smoke there and I can only hope that the highly flammable toilet flushing liquid will never catch on fire when someone throws the cigarets into the toilets. Also the bin is a usual place to throw the cigarettes which is always full of paper towels...

Smoking should always keep forbinnen in confined space especially planes.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:44 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 12):
This tells you that your have a serious drug addiction - that is killing you.

I am addicted to alcohol, but I can go several days without it. If you can't go 19 hours without smoking you are an addict. I was a heavy smoker at one time, but I haven't touched one in 15 years.

Quoting eielef (Reply 27):
Don't we have any right?

No.... I can't drink at work, show up to work after drinking, drive drunk, or drink out on the street. I have the freedom to drink at home and at places that serve alcohol. Those are the limitations when it comes to drinking. I shouldn't be allowed to drink wherever I want. There are limitations on where you can smoke, so deal with it.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 37):
If you want to smoke gooutside. there's room on the wings.

There was a Benson & Hedges magazine advertisement that had people doing that on it.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 87):
Also, there is no recorded case of a death directly linked to marijuana.

I have always found that very hard to believe. I never have actually seen a source of that information that was mainstream. Everybody I ever knew that sold pot used that as a "sales promotion". Lately there have been people saying marijuana cures cancer and diabetes. I guess the people I know who smoked pot and died of those diseases didn't smoke enough.



Quoting DexSwart (Reply 87):
Those who decide to continue smoking

If smoking cigarettes for pleasure is wrong than why is it ok to smoke marijuana for pleasure? lighting stuff on fire and inhaling smoke is NOT good for you.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 87):
Also, crimes have actually gone DOWN in Denver since marijuana was legalised

I've seen this statistic and it's bogus. Of course marijuana related crime would go down. In reality crime has gone WAY up, because it is still against Federal law.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 87):
As an aside, have you ever tried marjuana? The worst act I've ever seen committed amongst some of my peers is probably falling off a chair eating Doritos.

Yes, I have used before, but it turned a bunch of friends into worthless losers who's entire reason for living was to smoke more weed. Some of those guys are 40 years old now and have accomplished nothing with their lives. I have successful friends who smoke marijuana too, but they aren't heavy smokers.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
tonyban
Posts: 263
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:45 pm

I am a 35 year long smoker. But I know enough that this a viewed as a nasty and unhealthy habit by non-smokers.
I never smoke around non-smokers and never have had the urge to smoke on a plane. In fact the only place I still smoke inside is at a casino.

The rights of non-smokers should always prevail. Just my opinion.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:54 pm

It is not possible, or at least not economically feasible, to entirely seal off a cabin section while not disturbing the non-smokers. As soon as you open the door, the smell of smoke will penetrate the non-smoking cabin.

I remember when smoking was allowed in trains. Sometimes you had to walk through to smoking area to reach the non-smoking cabin. Bleh, it smelled bad, ashes on the ground, a dirty cabin!

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
Why so? It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.

Smoking is a choice.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
YOU have chosen to become addicted, and there are health consequences for you and those around you. Conversely, there are no health risks associated with not smoking.

  

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 7):
If you chose to smoke, that is your business. If you smoke around others, your business becomes their business no matter if they like smoking or not.

  

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 13):
I would avoid an airline like the plague if they allowed smoking on board and I can assure you I'm not alone.

  

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 14):
If you really can't stand going on a long-haul flight without smoking, split the flight into two flights and have a smoking break somewhere in between.

  

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 52):
You want to smoke, I'm fine with that as long as it in no way impacts me.

  

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 53):
Because there is no technology that is selective enough to not disturb any other passenger, especially in the premium cabins where profits are made.

  

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 59):
You are free to kill yourself by smoking cigarettes, but when you expect others around you to be exposed to that second hand poison, then that makes it is not your decision.

  
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
jeffh747
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:23 pm

This sounds like something I could see a small middle eastern airline attempt as a premium service with their hookahs. There's not a chance in hell though that any airline would allow any form of cigarette smoking because they would have antismoking advocates on them like theres no tomorrow. I think a lot of people would avoid them as well.
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delta88
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:31 pm

If you really wanted smoking on aircraft, you would have to do what they do in Hotel rooms, offer smoking flights like they offer smoking rooms. However, having basicly two aircraft for every flight would get quite costly, and the logistics and many other factors would make it completely impractical. Aircraft are public places, regardless of how you define it, and if someone cant light up in certain places, than airplanes should be no exception. Its your choice to smoke, and i have nothing against it, but there would be no way to section off a smoking area in an aircraft, every time you open the door the smoke and smell finds a way out, and you cant make it airtight so smoke and smells would always leak out into the main non smoking cabin.(If There is a way to airtight a section please correct me, im not an aircraft engineer). The fire risk is small, but you see that peoples houses burn down from cigarette ashes, so it could happen in an aircraft. People with kids would also flip their lids because of it. However If premium smoking flights in small aircraft, such as the A318 or even regula r buisness jets could be approved, then maybe it could be slightly feasible, but it would never work for main stream aircraft, it simply isnt plausible. Smoking lounges with negative airpressure ventilation would be the only feasible option at airports.
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falstaff
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:32 pm

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 92):
This sounds like something I could see a small middle eastern airline attempt as a premium service with their hookahs

I recall there was American airline tried something like that in the 90s. I remember reading some of their flights had one paying customer.

Around my house the only people who smoke are old, poor, or degenerate drug addicts. Two or the three have no money for air travel. When I visit a wealthier parts of town I see fewer smokers.
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Vio
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:36 pm

Bringing back smoking on airplanes is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard. I couldn't give two s**** about your addiction and how hard it is for you to cope. TRY TO QUIT! Simple as that. I have never smoked in my entire life and I wouldn't want my kids my wife and other non-smokers to be exposed to your second hand smoke.

If you can't help your bad habit, get a pilot license, buy your own jet and smoke away until your lungs collapse! I'm sorry mate, I have zero respect for smokers (when it comes to their bad habit) and that includes dear family members.

There is help available to get over your addiction. Do something about it. Exposing other passengers or airline employees to carcinogenic by-products is immoral and down right criminal (in my own opinion).

For your own sake... TRY TO QUIT!
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rfields5421
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:39 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 89):
If you can't go 19 hours without smoking you are an addict. I was a heavy smoker at one time, but I haven't touched one in 15 years.

Nicotine is a very addictive drug. Withdrawal effects are real, and serious. Placebo replacements such as gum or other drugs cause many people to have extremely negative side effects. And nicotine never, ever, stops being a craving for ex-smokers - especially when they smell cigarette smoke.

I know several people who were able to stop alcohol addiction behavior, but haven't been able to stop smoking.

Others who have beaten crack, cocaine, heroin, and oxytocin - yet cannot beat nicotine addiction.

Stopping smoking isn't a 'choice' for most smokers - it is a physical addiction that cannot be beaten. It is not a 'weakness' or lack of 'will power' or even lack of desire.

Unfortunately - nicotine effects don't become noticeable until after the person becomes hooked on cigarettes/ smoking. Stopping young people from starting is the best preventative - and nearly as impossible to accomplish as stopping them from trying alcohol.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:50 pm

I have heard that even Air Koryo doesn't allow smoking...
 
Eljonno
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 pm

RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
Why so? It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.
I'd like to know if there is a chance of having some legal bases on this

If you don't stop smoking before you crash your car or someone pulls a gun on you: tobacco WILL kill you.
What is worse is that by advocating, or even simply passively allowing individuals to smoke around non-smokers: you may well be pulling the trigger on them as well. Congratulations for being an idiot.

So maybe that should be your legal basis: negligent manslaughter.
In the UK the statutory sentence is life imprisonment.

It is a filthy, disgusting habit and it is absolutely right that society is doing everything it can not to enable you to light up. Why should the rest of use bare the cost of lung cancer drugs because you are too stupid not to start a habit that you have been told over and over again is destructive, antisocial and dangerous? Would you allow your children to start smoking?

It is absolutely right that smoking is prohibited on aircraft and in public places; I hope that in my lifetime, the sale of tobacco will be outlawed entirely.

[Edited 2014-06-04 10:03:15]

[Edited 2014-06-04 10:04:04]
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:02 pm

LOL, this all reminds me of the Smokers Express "airline" attempt from the 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokers_Express

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