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Type-Rated
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:04 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 35):
I've yet to see anyone that eats fat, sugar, oil, etc. leave anything behind when they eat, that could possibly harm anyone.

Have you ever seen the debris left behind by families who have small kids that were handed a package of saltine cracker to "play with" during a flight? Debris on the wall, seats, floors and even in the aisle. I have seen some people slip on that stuff. I pity the people who are assigned those seats on the next flight segment.
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planeguy727
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:28 pm

Having a smoking section in an enclosed space (building, plane, etc.) is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool. Despite your best efforts it will travel throughout.
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
TakeOff
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:35 pm

Are we seriously having this conversation?

TakeOff
 
delta88
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:36 pm

Even at work, we have a smoking area thats outside, yet the debris left behind after a day of work is unbelieveably large. Ashes everywhere, spent ends of the cigarettes everywhere, cartons, boxes, stuff of that sort. Believe me, if i cant take a small bottle of Shampoo on an aircraft, its very unlikely they will let me take a box of smokes onboard. I may not smoke, but my mom does and well i breathe in quite enough of that everyday without having to fly. If you cant go without a smoke, then sadly you do need help, take a bus, or drive yourself(if where you go is accesible by car) or take a bus. Theres other ways you can still travel and stop for smoke breaks.
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eielef
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting delta88 (Reply 93):
If you really wanted smoking on aircraft, you would have to do what they do in Hotel rooms, offer smoking flights like they offer smoking rooms. However, having basicly two aircraft for every flight would get quite costly, and the logistics and many other factors would make it completely impractical. Aircraft are public places, regardless of how you define it, and if someone cant light up in certain places, than airplanes should be no exception. Its your choice to smoke, and i have nothing against it, but there would be no way to section off a smoking area in an aircraft, every time you open the door the smoke and smell finds a way out, and you cant make it airtight so smoke and smells would always leak out into the main non smoking cabin.(If There is a way to airtight a section please correct me, im not an aircraft engineer). The fire risk is small, but you see that peoples houses burn down from cigarette ashes, so it could happen in an aircraft. People with kids would also flip their lids because of it. However If premium smoking flights in small aircraft, such as the A318 or even regula r buisness jets could be approved, then maybe it could be slightly feasible, but it would never work for main stream aircraft, it simply isnt plausible. Smoking lounges with negative airpressure ventilation would be the only feasible option at airports.

Completely agree with you, Delta88. I thought there should be selected flights on selected schedules that allow you to smoke. For instance, i said the example on the LAX-NYC route, as there are many flights a day. Offer then just one for smokers. It will be full, although it is more expensive, at a worse departing/arriving time, etc.

I could quit smoking. I did it for over one year between 2011 an 2012. I'm a normal educated person, who also does sport, but who smokes 30 cigs a day. I choose to smoke. I'd offer my children their first cigarette if they wanted to. At home, anyone buy me smokes. I respect them, so I don't smoke while they are eating, nor in their bedrooms. The rest of the house I smoke when and where ever I want.

Last but not least, many of you said that the smell is disgusting, both in planes and trains. Smell is not as bad as noise. Who loves hearing all night long a dog barking, or a baby crying? Wouldn't it be better to have "no babies/no pets" flights? I think SQ (or some major Asian Airline) has implemented a few like them.
So, as they could be no noise airlines because few get upset (i personally don't care if there is a baby crying or a dog barking, I like children and dogs), why don't you offer some flights smoke free and some other with smoker seats?
 
DariusBieber
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:50 pm

If one cannot withstand the urge on a flight to smoke, consider bringing some kind of smokeless tobacco with you. Smoking on an airplane with the pressurized cabin will never come back..
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falstaff
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 100):
Have you ever seen the debris left behind by families who have small kids that were handed a package of saltine cracker to "play with" during a flight? Debris on the wall, seats, floors and even in the aisle. I have seen some people slip on that stuff. I pity the people who are assigned those seats on the next flight segment.

You aren't ingesting are you? Who slips on salt from a cracker? A few crumbs is hardly the same thing as cigarette smoke.

Smoking is not a right. I'm not aware of any constitution that gives you a right to smoke.

Quoting eljonno (Reply 98):
I hope that in my lifetime, the sale of tobacco will be outlawed entirely.

I hope not. Illicit drugs are illegal, but their popularity continues to grow.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 96):
Nicotine is a very addictive drug. Withdrawal effects are real, and serious.

which shows how addictive it isand why it's a drug m I also know people who beat illicit drugs, but not tobacco. I still think about smoking all the time, but have had the will power to avoid them for 15 years.
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DocLightning
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 3):
Why so? It could be considered discrimination toward the smokers in the world.

Discrimination is generally defined as preferential or anti-preferential treatment of a group based on inherent, immutable qualities. Race, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, disability, religion, etc.

When there is a valid technical reason why a class is treated preferentially (i.e. barring the disabled from the military), then discrimination might be allowed. However, when we are discussing a chosen behavior, like smoking, then this is not discrimination. And furthermore, because smoking affects those around you, there is additionally a valid operational/technical reason why it should be regulated.

Smoking continues to fall further and further out of favor in most of the world. I very much doubt that we will ever see it come back to scheduled commercial operation.
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lancelot07
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:08 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
Completely agree with you, Delta88. I thought there should be selected flights on selected schedules that allow you to smoke. For instance, i said the example on the LAX-NYC route, as there are many flights a day. Offer then just one for smokers. It will be full, although it is more expensive, at a worse departing/arriving time, etc.

I don't think that will happen anytime soon. The max I can imagine is some kind of smoking lounge, similar to the ones in airports. With a cardreader at the entrance, and a hefty fee to pay.

I used to be a heavy smoker until about a year ago. I do not mind other people smoking, but a vast majority of non-smokers does. Surprisingly, on long flights I never had a problem not to smoke. I always had some substitute with me, and never used it.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:10 pm

Christ, even though I smoke, I'd NEVER want it to happen on airlines. I wouldn't fly said airlines/flights. Ever. Nor do I smoke before flying, as I don't want to subject my neighbors to the smell.

Ever got a ride with someone who regularly smokes in his/her car? It's freaking disgusting in there. Smells like, well,

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
Completely agree with you, Delta88. I thought there should be selected flights on selected schedules that allow you to smoke. For instance, i said the example on the LAX-NYC route, as there are many flights a day. Offer then just one for smokers. It will be full, although it is more expensive, at a worse departing/arriving time, etc.
Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
Smell is not as bad as noise.

That's an opinion, of course. I can deal just fine with the noises on an airplane. But sitting in a cigarette-stinking airplane for 6 hours? Oh lord. Plus, the noise doesn't stick to me when I leave.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
citationjet
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:15 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 107):
Smoking continues to fall further and further out of favor in most of the world.

Agreed. The data from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) shows it has declined from 42% of US adults in 1965 to 19% in 2011, with a steady decline.
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig_smoking/

Per the CDC:
•Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 5 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/
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9mmrd
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Last but not least, passive smoking is bad, so is CO2 polluted cities, as most in the mother world. Even think on MEX or DAL. They even smell bad. Well, CO2 kills directly 230,000 people a year. Why don't we ban heavy machines, engines, and all other CO2 producers?

Maybe because heavy machinery, engines and a lot of other CO2 producers actually generate productive activity in the economy, whereas cigarettes are consumption goods with not only no tangible and productive benefits, but that actually harms the population? Plus, there has been large amounts of investment flowing into technology that minimises CO2 emissions eg improved fuel efficiency, alternative energy sources.

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
I'd offer my children their first cigarette if they wanted to.

God bless your soul.

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
Last but not least, many of you said that the smell is disgusting, both in planes and trains. Smell is not as bad as noise. Who loves hearing all night long a dog barking, or a baby crying? Wouldn't it be better to have "no babies/no pets" flights? I think SQ (or some major Asian Airline) has implemented a few like them.

I think you may have lost the plot. Admittedly I do have reserves regarding pets and children on flights, dogs barking and babies crying doesn't pop anyones eardrums - active and passive smoking has direct adverse health effects. Thus, this is beyond being a redundant point.

Smoking should never ever be introduced back into commercial aviation not only because of associated health and safety risks, but also the fact that it's just purely uneconomical in the contemporary context (think unions, maintenance, cabin retrofitting, upkeeping, etc).

Personally, I find smoking a terrible habit. My two grandfathers passed away from it. However it is not up to me to judge on someone's decisions regarding their own fate, as long as they don't affect me!
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mayor
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 100):
Have you ever seen the debris left behind by families who have small kids that were handed a package of saltine cracker to "play with" during a flight? Debris on the wall, seats, floors and even in the aisle. I have seen some people slip on that stuff. I pity the people who are assigned those seats on the next flight segment.




Doesn't have to be small children and it doesn't have to be saltines. Almost any snack can make a mess, BUT, I can't believe that you're seriously comparing second hand smoke to a few crumbled crackers. This is sarcasm, right?
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anstar
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:23 pm

Why on earth would you want to re-introduce one of the biggest fire risks to an aircraft? I for one certainly wouldn't want someone who had lets say drunk a few wines and was lighting up a cigarette to accidentally drop the butt somewhere that would cause a fire and then there are the obvious health risks of 2nd hand smoke.

No thanks... leave your deadly habit away from public transport.
 
AR385
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:24 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
The smoking ban in our country is quite new. In public offices its completely banned, although no one cares, as there is no sanction if you smoke. Worst would be someone asking you, politely or not, to stop smoking.

Which really speaks a lot more on how people in Argentina regard the law, which is in and of itself a major problem. And not only smoking laws. And polite people, even in Argentina, where I´ve visited since I was 3 months all, will ask if it´s ok to smoke if they are around people who don´t. Polite people that is.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
In private places, as for instance my office, the state has almost no jurisdiction on it. So, if the owner of the building or the boss decides it will be a smoker building, it will. In my office we most smoke, and all my firm is a smokers place. All employees and visitors are allowed to smoke.

If I am a customer that has to go to your office and I find that I have to take a shower every time I visit, I will ask the people in that office to meet me outside, at an open air place.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Those ideas of Marihuana smoking (i've seen that also in Netherlands, Belgium and Uruguay) I don't believe is smart. First it comes marihuana, and soon will come cocaine or worse things. I wouldn't like to live in a country were you can smoke weed and even buy it in a shop, as cigarettes.

I wouldn´t either. Marihuana is more harmful to your lungs than tobacco. But here´s the key. It´s also damaging to mine wether I choose to smoke it or not. Just as tobacco. So whether they allow it in Uruguay, Belgium or the Netherlands, is just another one of the smokescreens you seem to be using time and again to justify imposing your habit on others. Marihuana is also magnitudes less addictive than Nicotine.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
All marihuana, alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. But the first two can make you lost the control of your acts. Cigarettes won't. Thats why it shouldn't be considered a drug.

Have you ever seen how out of control a tobacco smoker who hasn´t had his fix in a few hrs. can get? They can even be dangerous. I seem to recall reading you were going nuts after not being able to smoke for 19 hrs. Do you think sneaking into the aircraft washroom, as I´ve known a few to have done, is not losing control?

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Last but not least, passive smoking is bad, so is CO2 polluted cities, as most in the mother world. Even think on MEX or DAL. They even smell bad. Well, CO2 kills directly 230,000 people a year. Why don't we ban heavy machines, engines, and all other CO2 producers?

People can move out of a city that is that polluted. They have a choice about it. It´s one of the reasons we moved from Mexico City back in 1986. In an aircraft I can´t move and don´t have a choice. Your habit is being enforced on me. And by the way, you need to update your info. on pollution about Mexico City.

Heavy machines, engines are actively being moved to cleaner fuels, such as Natural Gas or research is being done on converting them to that fuel. Have you heard of electric cars? Even then, machines are a necessity, unless you want to go back and live in the Stone Age. Cigarette smoking is not a necessity.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
And how did the number of lungs cancer INCREASED in the last 25 years, after all this efforts on banning smoking, laws, green life and charging stupid money for cigarettes (even more than 10U$S for a 20 cigs package).

That is related to people living longer. Almost all over the world, life expectancy has increased in the past 25 years, and thus, you are seeing an increase in ALL types of cancer, not only lung cancer. Unless you have some research that proves otherwise, and I invite you to post it, then what you are actually saying is that there is no relation between cigarette smoking and lung cancer. Here are some news. Of all the people that get lung cancer, 90% are or were at some point in their lives, smokers.

As things stand now, and the general trends of the world, I see no chance of any airline introducing smoking again. I even find it doubtful they will get any investors, or permission from the regulation authorities.
 
2008matt
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:32 pm

Being a generally unhealthy, bad smelling and honestly uneeded pastime, I hope it is never even considered to be aloud back onto aircraft. Just because some people can't go without a cigarette for an hour or few, doesn't mean everyone else has to suffer for it.
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aerdingus
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:38 pm

Smoking on a/c is dangerous. Why would you want to do that?

But then again people don't care and still try to smoke on a/c, no matter what ye tell them. Nice surprise for them jerks when the police greet them on landing... 
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EIDL
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:46 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
I've liked that idea of having sort of a toilet for smokers only. I wouldn't care on paying for it. I posted on O'Leary twitter, who always enjoy new ideas!

Won't get around the Irish ban as staff need to enter it, and the Irish ban applies to Irish registered transports even when abroad. So no go.
 
PanAm1971
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:51 pm

Am I the only one who remembers coming of a long flight and smelling like an ashtray?   It was disgusting. Please... never again!
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
I respect them, so I don't smoke while they are eating, nor in their bedrooms. The rest of the house I smoke when and where ever I want.

So...if you can respect them, why not the rest of us? You still haven't answered the question: is it so bad that you can't go 5-8 hours without smoking? If the answer is yes, then may I recommend you seek help?

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
Wouldn't it be better to have "no babies/no pets" flights?

That would be a dream come true for many BUT not gonna happen. No pets is pretty much in place. Some airline require them to fly on cargo. Others don't allow them, and others ask for a carrier and for them to remain in it for the duration of the flight.

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
I think SQ (or some major Asian Airline) has implemented a few like them.

I think it was MH that barred children from first class.

However, noise and children crying can, at most, make the flight unpleasant. Nothing a good sleep and a Tylenol can't cure. Can't say the same for second hand smoke. Besides, you can calm children down. Their tantrum eventually gives way to a nap. A compulsive smoker's first cigarette will lead to more cigarettes.
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ORDfan
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:07 pm

Slightly off topic, but it seems like smoking zones/lounges at airports at least are alive and well, particularly in Europe. The ones at MUC and CDG seem to be particularly well-utilized every time I fly through those airports.

Funny enough, in 2009 I witnessed an older man smoking directly next to a non-smoking logo @ CDG (where there are absolutely a ton of no-smoking signs btw)! Even better - nobody stopped him the whole time. I guess he was sort of in the vicinity of one of the lounges, but certainly well-outside of it; guess he didn't feel like going into a smokey room... ah c'est la vie.

Here's an interesting website that lists all the airports smokers can light up past security: didn't come across any American airports that allow it, but I only searched a couple airports. Think ATL has a couple lounges, but looks like most major American airports are all smokefree.

http://www.airportsmokers.com/
 
LH707330
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:10 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Those ideas of Marihuana smoking (i've seen that also in Netherlands, Belgium and Uruguay) I don't believe is smart. First it comes marihuana, and soon will come cocaine or worse things. I wouldn't like to live in a country were you can smoke weed and even buy it in a shop, as cigarettes.

The "gateway drug" theory has been debunked. Plus, I live in an area where weed is legal, and it's not really a problem. I'd rather have people be baked than drunk.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Last but not least, passive smoking is bad, so is CO2 polluted cities, as most in the mother world. Even think on MEX or DAL. They even smell bad. Well, CO2 kills directly 230,000 people a year. Why don't we ban heavy machines, engines, and all other CO2 producers?

Because those machines are a necessary evil. Even then, we're still having rules for particulate and CO2 emissions.

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
And how did the number of lungs cancer INCREASED in the last 25 years, after all this efforts on banning smoking, laws, green life and charging stupid money for cigarettes (even more than 10U$S for a 20 cigs package).

Great question, could be increased population and urbanization. More kids drown when ice cream sales go up. Should we ban ice cream?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 76):
Quoting Doona (Reply 45):
Then again, I've seen Cinnabon "restaurants" in almost every major US airport I've been to, and there has always been plenty of people in line. If that's not making an active choice to die, what is?

Has their choice to stuff themselves with Cinnabons affected you directly? Do you get diabetes from watching them eat?

No, but if they begin spilling into my seat, we have a problem.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 76):
You first mentioned how people wish to kill themselves by being obese...but they being obese isn't affecting you in anyway. They'll get diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. and your body will still function just fine.

For the most part, not as directly, the US is now spending 145 billion a year on obesity-related health costs. Some of that comes out of my pocket.

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 80):
We have since introduced a ban on smoking in all public transportation (since 2007) as well as basically all public indoor spaces with few exceptions (since 2009).

True, but the enforcement is a bit lax. Every time I go out in Hamburg, I get home smelling like a chimney sweep.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 89):
Quoting DexSwart (Reply 87):
Also, crimes have actually gone DOWN in Denver since marijuana was legalised

I've seen this statistic and it's bogus. Of course marijuana related crime would go down. In reality crime has gone WAY up, because it is still against Federal law.

Congress is actually telling the DEA to stop worrying about it. Either way, it doesn't seem to be a big problem, nor is it over here in Seattle, where nobody has really cared anyway for the past decade.
 
Heinkel
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:22 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 59):
When smoking was allowed on commercial flights, the smoking section was in the back of the respective cabin.

Not everywhere.

In the late 1980s I flew frequently HAJ - STR - HAJ on a LH Boeing 737. Smoking was allowed and done. The smoking area was on the right side of the aisle (starboard) and the non-smoking area was on the left side of the aisle (port side).

I often asked myself, who at LH had that smart idea separating the smokers and non-smokers that way.

The bad thing was, that though I was a non-smoker, I always had to take a seat on the smoker's side (starboard) to get a window seat on the side of the plane, which was opposite to the sun. I wanted to have a nice view and had to live with the bad air and smell.

I'm really happy, that smoking on planes is no longer allowed.
 
rampbro
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:34 pm

This is one hell of a thread. Apparently a lot people really don't like cigarette smoking. I agree that it would be pretty inconvenient for a non-smoker to be stuck on a plane with a smoker, and I certainly can't deny that its bad for me. However, so is meat, and sugar, and driving gas powered cars, and of course firearms (lookin at you America). Cast your imaginations to a theoretical future where all these things have gone out of mode, and there is a general consensus that each is harmful to the individual, and certainly the latter two are harmful to the people around that individual. How mirthful and self-righteous could you be in condemning those activities? As mirthful and self-righteous as some of the above, condemning myself and my fellow smokers?

Also, the little bit of reefer madness that has materialized here - love it. ::takes huge bong toke::
 
eielef
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 124):
How mirthful and self-righteous could you be in condemning those activities? As mirthful and self-righteous as some of the above, condemning myself and my fellow smokers?

Please, be my next president.

In the Argentine Constitution, Section 19 says: "The private actions of men which in no way offend public order or
morality, nor injure a third party, are only reserved to God and are exempted from the authority of judges".
So, you´ll all say: injure a third party. But: does it really injure you? In many years, after smoking pasively many cigarettes, it could affect you potentially.
So could affect you the greenhouse efect, the CO2 inhalation, etc. In this case, we should ban cars and even planes, as "they could fall right over your head". A car, quite common, driver losses control, being drunk or not, crashes at you (as a pedestrian or as a driver) and kills you.

In my opinion, if I smoke or not is a private thing on myself. And it doesn't injure, directly, anyone. Just potentially (based on facts). So, I wish I was allowed to smoke anywhere, as it was just 25 years ago.
Checking on the argentine law, the first section that banned smoking on some public offices (in this case it was in the Migrations Department) was in 1998.

And many of you said: dead to the smokers, dead to the tobacco producers. My province´s economy is based, 25% of it, on tobacco. How do you fix that?
 
karadion
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
My province´s economy is based, 25% of it, on tobacco. How do you fix that?

By converting to another cash crop. Cultivated land can be repurposed for other cash crops.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:14 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 124):
How mirthful and self-righteous could you be in condemning those activities? As mirthful and self-righteous as some of the above, condemning myself and my fellow smokers?

Well, meat and sugar don't harm those around you. Gas-powered cars and firearms aren't allowed on airplanes.

So.....
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
In many years, after smoking pasively many cigarettes, it could affect you potentially.

Not potentially friend, scientifically proven over and over again.

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
So could affect you the greenhouse efect, the CO2 inhalation, etc. In this case, we should ban cars and even planes, as "they could fall right over your head". A car, quite common, driver losses control, being drunk or not, crashes at you (as a pedestrian or as a driver) and kills you.

Comparing second hand smoke inhalation to car accidents and greenhouse gasses isn't a valid comparison.

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
In my opinion, if I smoke or not is a private thing on myself. And it doesn't injure, directly, anyone. Just potentially (based on facts).

Your smoke winds up in my lungs. I don't want your smoke in my lungs but I'm stuck on a 10 hour flight from EZE and the plane is full so there is nowhere for me to go. That isn't a choice for me; I have no option since breathing is mandatory for most humans.

Smoke all you want at home. Smoke all you want in your car. Smoke all you want out of doors. However the notion in the year 2014 that you should be able to smoke inside a confined space like an aircraft is crazy.

If you thought flying was unfun being crammed 9-10 abreast in rows 30-34 inches apart for 12 hours, just wait until you add 10 rows of smoking at the back of the plane.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
does it really injure you

On short term, it smells bad and I do not want to have the smoke in my clothes the whole day. And I do not want to have the smoke in my lungs because it makes me to cough the whole time.

For children and babies aboard an aircraft, it is not good for the development of the body.

On the long term, it increases the chances of having cancer (see more below).

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
after smoking pasively many cigarettes, it could affect you potentially.
Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
And it doesn't injure, directly, anyone. Just potentially (based on facts)

It has been proven that passively smoking can be more dangerous than people smoking cigarettes.

And the more one flies, the more one is exposed.

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
A car, quite common, driver losses control, being drunk or not, crashes at you (as a pedestrian or as a driver) and kills you.

The odds that such an event happens is really small. And if it happens and it kills you instantly, so be it. Smoking on the other hand increases the chances of having cancer in the long term. Cancer is THE disease of this century and is a long and painful way of dying.

Have a look at this chart and find the car crash circle and the cancer circle:
http://infobeautiful3.s3.amazonaws.c...h_wellcome_collection_fullsize.png

The average person has a 20% chance of having cancer in its lifetime. A high figure, and I do not want to have that figure increased because someone else wants to blow smoke in my face.

[Edited 2014-06-04 14:32:36]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:26 pm

I remember years ago after DL 191 there was a run on the smoking seats at the back of the plane because people thought it was safer in an accident. There was an article in the NY Times (sadly I can't find it) about the smokers being unhappy that they couldn't get smoking seats on some airplanes because non-smokers were so concerned about a crash and their survival.
 
lucaspithan
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:38 pm

I couldn't agree more with the guys who said they would avoid any airline who allows people to smoke on board. I would too.
 
DexSwart
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 89):
Lately there have been people saying marijuana cures cancer and diabetes.

It "eases pain and suffering", which is why medicinal marijuana is used.

However, I realise now how preachy I sounded, and that wasn't my intention at all.
I'm not a fan of anything that involves smoking any substance, but what I was trying to do was just point out to eielef how changing the topic to something else doesn't really have the same punch

Quoting falstaff (Reply 89):
turned a bunch of friends into worthless losers who's entire reason for living was to smoke more weed

Sorry to hear that. They should have had a better grip on things before allowing marijuana to "take over their lives" as it were.

Last time I remember a smoking flight was KLM from... Nairobi, I think it was? They had a little smoking section with a door and everything. Not that it helped, the plane reeked anyway. Maybe it was Martinair, I'm not sure.

This thread spiralled quickly.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:03 pm

Smells bad. Looks bad. Gets on everything the smoke touches. Health consequences for anyone breathing nearby. Conclusion? Is bad. NO.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AR385
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 132):
It "eases pain and suffering", which is why medicinal marijuana is used.

However, I realise now how preachy I sounded, and that wasn't my intention at all.
I'm not a fan of anything that involves smoking any substance, but what I was trying to do was just point out to eielef how changing the topic to something else doesn't really have the same punch

Let me say first that I get the point you are trying to convey. But I´d like to add a few things. While Marihuana may have some medicinal properties, there exists medication for the same conditions that are way better than Marihuana. Some may argue some crap about "going the organic way, or not contributing to big pharma" etc. But guess what?

Unless you come up to the Sierras here in Mexico and pick it yourself, Marihuana has long ago stopped being "organic". The varieties being sold now are so enhanced with different chemical substances (many grown hydroponically) so as to augment the contents of THC to the maximum possible.

It´s probably as bad for you as tobacco. I really don´t buy the "Medicinal Argument"

My father was a 6 pack a day smoker. Whenever we flew together it was nightmarish as I was never able to stand the smell. Flying our usual MEX-EZE 8:30 hrs made the in seat ashtray in the AR 747 look like a cigarette butt volcano. He died of stomach cancer at age 62. Went in 3 weeks.

Flying with mother? A bit less nightmarish but she was and still is at her ripe old age of 72 a 4 pack a day elegant lady. I´d rather take a non-smoking bus for 19 hrs than share a 1 hr. smoking flight with her ever again.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 124):
I certainly can't deny that its bad for me. However, so is meat, and sugar, and driving gas powered cars, and of course firearms (lookin at you America).

The difference is, I can choose what I eat and if I want to drive a car. If I don't like the CO2 gasses I can move out of the city and live somewhere else. I can choose to eat junk food or not. People smoking in public areas is something I cannot choose for (and please, do not advise to avoid public areas because that is unrealistic).
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:50 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 134):
4 pack a day
Quoting AR385 (Reply 134):
6 pack a day

Wow, and I can't even conceive of smoking 2 packs a day!

Of course I'm sorry that your father passed away relatively young.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
frunzaverde
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:24 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
In the Argentine Constitution, Section 19 says: "The private actions of men which in no way offend public order or morality, nor injure a third party, are only reserved to God and are exempted from the authority of judges".
So, you´ll all say: injure a third party. But: does it really injure you? In many years, after smoking pasively many cigarettes, it could affect you potentially.

Yes, your actions injure all those third parties smoking passively. Not potentially, but definitely! Potential (in both English and Spanish) conveys the meaning "there is a set probability, under 1, that there will be an effect". In this case, we know that each and every one puff of smoke inhaled passively definitely causes injury to the unwittingly exposed third party. What you are confusing is probability with magnitude - it is the level of damage (injury) that's what's extremely small with each such puff. But the damage exists nevertheless. But here's the catch - the damage is cumulative over time, leading, again over time, to significant injury and untimely death for those smoking passively. Here's a link to the dangers: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/ma...CA257BF0001E7410/$File/tobpass.pdf

If someone comes to you and repeatedly and intentionally gives you a paper cut, you would think that you could report the person the the police after a number of repeated offenses. And, of course, it's illegal to give someone a paper cut, even though a single paper cut won't kill anybody. Because even though each of those paper cuts are not particularly harmful in themselves, if the offender cuts you one hundred times, you will suffer harm. That's what you're doing to us through smoke - giving us nonsmokers tiny paper cuts in our lungs, that slowly accumulate over time, causing disease and killing us.

Quoting eielef (Reply 125):
So could affect you the greenhouse efect, the CO2 inhalation, etc. In this case, we should ban cars and even planes, as "they could fall right over your head". A car, quite common, driver losses control, being drunk or not, crashes at you (as a pedestrian or as a driver) and kills you.

Cars are dangerous devices. That's why we have substantial risk mitigation strategies. One needs a license in order to be allowed to drive and/or operate a vehicle, and an exam must be passed in order to be granted such rules; there are multiple sets of rules for where cars may be driven (in my country, such areas are called public roads); there are rules to be followed by pedestrians as to stay outside of the path of cars; there are rules for cars to follow (signs, laws, limits) and further rules for drivers to follow (no booze before you drive). Same with planes.

We have similar risk mitigation strategies with cigarettes. These are basically this rule: smoking in public places is forbidden. Simple rule, eh?

CO2 inhalation is harmless, by the way (as long as it does not displace oxygen and asphyxiates you through lack of oxygen, but that any gas can do). CO2 as a greenhouse gas is dangerous through the climate change it causes. That's why we have a risk mitigation strategy for it. Whether it's efficient, we'll see - but that's what we came up with.

Similarly, we have risk mitigation strategies for particulates, SO2, and other pollutants. And we have a risk mitigation strategy for guns - in some countries perhaps better than in others, with quality of such strategy oftentimes driven by ideology instead of science; but some strategies exist and are put in place everywhere.

Think a bit - by your own account, a factory belching dark, unfiltered smoke "could potentially, in many years" affect you (I'm born in Eastern Europe, I've seen factories belching smoke and haven't seen anybody drop dead on the spot from it). Per your own account, one should have such factories, and if you ask for it to put filters, they could say "potentially, in many years, it might hurt you; so we won't do jack about it". I guess you wouldn't accept such reasoning (and wouldn't enjoy a lead smelter puffing vast amount of lead- and mercury- laden gas).

But in real life (thankfully), as societies and individuals, of course we won't allow it to belch dirty smoke, because we know said factory is dangerous and causing asthma, allergies, cancers, metal poisonings, heart attacks etc.. It's the same with cigs (and cigs contain much the same stuff that factories tended to belch out in the past) - they won't make you drop dead on the spot, but they will hurt you and all around you.

[Edited 2014-06-04 17:27:13]

[Edited 2014-06-04 17:29:18]
 
eielef
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:45 am

I've seen in this "conversation", lots of United States of Americas users talking about morals, from: how terrible and unhealthy tobacco is for the non-smokers, to the statement that "I chose smoking and being and addict". Other ridiculose things as "I don't know in my country, but maybe in yours, blah blah..

Let's start so, with the first truth of this hypocrite comments: The cigarrette as we all know it nowadays as tobacco + nicotine + and other harmful and deadly things (Known by other as "Marlborism"), was created by UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

- I didn't chose to be an addict, the cigs pack or no one asked me if i wanted to be one.. I only was a teenager, as the most of smokers when they started.

- I'm quite sure that if one bussinesman of the US, realize that this business could bring money, without hesitation he will do it.

- I don't know if alcohol or cigarrettes, what of both kills more active and PASSIVE consumers per year. (In car accidents there aren't only envolved drunk people).

- Last generation BOEINGS delivered to commercial airlines, made in the USA, are still coming out of the factory with ashtrays in the toilet and galleys. (Ready for hypocrisy!)


So please stop with hypocrisy, study a little bit of modern history and try to be serious.

Thanks a lot,

.
 
zrs70
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 9):
Make ONE of them smokers only.

Ok,

So my flight is cancelled, and the next flight is a smokers only flight.

Right.
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
strfyr51
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:50 am

on the Technicl side of smoking in the Cabin, cigatett smoke caused Cabin filters and pressurization failures, damage to door and window seals, damage to cargo and cabin smoke detectord, damage to windshield seals and damage to emergency equipment. When Passengers were paying full service fares. most of these costs could be absorbed, But since that isn't the case anymore replacing a $16,000 buterfly valve before it's time cuts directly into the relaiability of the airline and that airplane's scheduled routing. All to accomodate people who for the most part wouldn't want to pay a premium FARE for the privilege of smoking? Not so good of an Idea, From a technical point only.
And I am a recovering smoker of 37 years, (once you've been addicted t you are NEVER an ex-smoker)
 
eielef
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 139):
So my flight is cancelled, and the next flight is a smokers only flight.

You, non-smoker, have the choice. Why can't I have the choice?
You then wait for the next non-smoking flight, or you go with us.
 
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Vio
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:56 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 138):
Let's start so, with the first truth of this hypocrite comments: The cigarrette as we all know it nowadays as tobacco + nicotine + and other harmful and deadly things (Known by other as "Marlborism"), was created by UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

So? The Japanese invented the Katana sword. Are you going to blame them if you stab yourself with one?

Quoting eielef (Reply 138):
- I didn't chose to be an addict, the cigs pack or no one asked me if i wanted to be one.. I only was a teenager, as the most of smokers when they started.

I was also a teenager and everyone around me smoked. I'm from the old block countries. I chose not to smoke because I knew it was unhealthy, expensive, disgusting and addictive. You need to take responsibilities for your actions. And if you couldn't do it as a teen, there is medical help that will allow you to fight addiction.

Quoting eielef (Reply 138):
- I don't know if alcohol or cigarettes, what of both kills more active and PASSIVE consumers per year. (In car accidents there aren't only evolved drunk people).

So what are you trying to tell us here? Cigarettes kill more people per year than guns do, but I still want guns banned. I don't see the correlation of your statement.

I love the fact that Canada is making it very very difficult, inconvenient and annoying for smokers to light up. I see some poor suckers out in -40*C freezing their ass off trying to puff on a cigarette... I shake my head and keep walking.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
karadion
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 138):
- Last generation BOEINGS delivered to commercial airlines, made in the USA, are still coming out of the factory with ashtrays in the toilet and galleys. (Ready for hypocrisy!)

All OEM's actually have those even the A380. It's because people still light up at first opportunity when they can if they can get away with it for a short bit. Where would you rather they put out the cigarette?

The 787 has an ashtray that looks like this.
http://stuckattheairport.com/2013/01...-the-787-and-the-one-butt-ashtray/

[Edited 2014-06-04 18:15:11]
 
rfields5421
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:37 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 138):
was created by UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Actually using a tube rolling to smoke tobacco existed in North, Central and South America some 500 years before Columbus arrived in New World. The French were the first nation to manufacture cigarettes in 1845 - as a state controlled monopoly. The English speaking world began to adopt cigarettes as soldiers came back from the Crimean War where they had picked up the habit from Turkish soldiers. Egypt developed the first mass export industry / marketing. After WWI when the soldiers returned from Europe was when the US cigarette industry started to grow.

The Marlboro brand was not created until 1924 - as a 'Mild As May' cigarette focused to attract women smokers. Phillip Morris, the founder of the company which created Marlboro, was a British tobacconist who manufactured his first cigarettes in 1854. The company first came to the US in 1902.

I will agree that the US made production, marketing and exporting of tobacco a huge industry.


Quoting eielef (Reply 138):
are still coming out of the factory with ashtrays in the toilet and galleys. (Ready for hypocrisy!)

Those are required safety features - a place for the person who accidentally lights a cigarette to put it out.


Quoting eielef (Reply 138):
- I didn't chose to be an addict, the cigs pack or no one asked me

I agree. Despite what some folks say - being unable to quit smoking is not a failure of will power, personal responsibility or such nonsense.

Addiction is a medical condition, and some people can stop, some simply cannot. Desire and willingness are important factors in quitting, but often are not enough to be successful.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
eielef
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:23 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 144):

The modern tobacco addiction was developed by the USA industries, as you mentioned Phillip Morris, as a massive consumption and made on purpose by genius designers, to make people addict.

Aviation safety issues are still a big contradiction in lot of things. Inside of the airplane you can still find lots of dangerous and hazardous items, inside of the first aids box, and other devices, as oxigen masks O2 tubes, etc.....

In safety issues, nowadays aviation is far from being safe.....(Sorry for being redundant)
 
Mir
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:55 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
Smell is not as bad as noise.

That's a matter of opinion. Though what's not a matter of opinion is that smells linger around you after their source has gone. Sounds do not. Sitting next to a crying baby may be unpleasant for the duration of a flight, but sitting next to a smoker will cause you to smell like cigarettes long after you get off the plane.

-Mir
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:56 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 9):
Make ONE of them smokers only.

And what does the aircraft do for the rest of the time when it is not on that one flight? Can it be cost-effectively be repositioned to a route with a similar number of daily flights? Can it be swapped over to a "non-smoking" aircraft if one of those goes tech, forcing passengers to endure the stale stench of the previous passengers' addictions? Or does it sit around all day, not earning anything but paying parking fees, waiting for another group of smokers?

To have dedicated smoking and non-smoking flights in all probability would add considerable costs to the airlines for little or no increase in revenue.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
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RWA380
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:58 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 96):
Nicotine is a very addictive drug. Withdrawal effects are real, and serious. Placebo replacements such as gum or other drugs cause many people to have extremely negative side effects. And nicotine never, ever, stops being a craving for ex-smokers - especially when they smell cigarette smoke.

You obviously have never smoked and quit, the problem with speaking on subjects you are not familier with is that you end up making statements that are totally incorrect.

There is no negative side effects to nicotene replacement therapy if directions are follwed, chantix does not replace nicotene, that drug (which I have tried) works with your brain to put you off cigarettes.

I am a non-smoker now, but I smoked for years, and I do not crave nicotene, especially if I smell cigarette smoke, I do not think about it, nor do I crave it even in my thoughts.

Quoting delta88 (Reply 103):
its very unlikely they will let me take a box of smokes onboard.

You can take cigarettes onboard, just nothing to light them with. I took smokes with me everywhere when I smoked.

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 122):
The "gateway drug" theory has been debunked. Plus, I live in an area where weed is legal, and it's not really a problem. I'd rather have people be baked than drunk.

Thanks for saying just this, when was the last time someone sparked a joint up and then got in a fist fight?

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 122):
Congress is actually telling the DEA to stop worrying about it. Either way, it doesn't seem to be a big problem, nor is it over here in Seattle, where nobody has really cared anyway for the past decade.

And here in Northwest it's in the air, No one does care, because it isn't a big deal. Like I stated earlier, smoking marijuana is more socially acceptable than cigarettes here in the US, more so on the West Coast.

Quoting rampbro (Reply 124):
Also, the little bit of reefer madness that has materialized here - love it. ::takes huge bong toke::

I'll join ya in that toke .... (big cheesy grin)

Quoting Karadion (Reply 126):
By converting to another cash crop. Cultivated land can be repurposed for other cash crops.

Hummmm, how about industrial hemp? More inexpensive and far more durable than cotton, insect resistant by nature, far greater industrial applications than any other crop grown. I hear China is planting huge swaths of industrial hemp.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 134):
Let me say first that I get the point you are trying to convey. But I´d like to add a few things. While Marihuana may have some medicinal properties, there exists medication for the same conditions that are way better than Marihuana. Some may argue some crap about "going the organic way, or not contributing to big pharma" etc. But guess what?

What? You are speaking on something you are not knowlegable about. CBDs have been extracted from the marijuana plant, and there is a small child in the US who no longer has daily seisures because she gets this medicine. There was no medical altenative, which is why her Mom went in search of help. There is no THC in this little girl, she is now leading a far improved life.

Mirinol is a synthetic THC that was supposed to help cancer and AIDS patients with their nausea, yet it is not perscribed often because real THC does the job far better in creating an appetite for those who are constantly nauseous.

Most farms here in Oregon, are very proud of the "organic" medications they produce, until you need marijuana to make you better, don't knock what you don't know.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 134):
The varieties being sold now are so enhanced with different chemical substances (many grown hydroponically) so as to augment the contents of THC to the maximum possible.

Hydro growing is not that prevelant, dirt grows are far more common, some chemicals are used, but many are naturally based. THC content is higher than in the 60s (Thank God) but max THC means little if you don't have a quality genetic clone to work with.
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seahawk
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:25 am

The problem is, one smoker smoking effects a large number of non smokers around him, while a non smoker never effects a smoker.
In airliners it would be technical possible through an extra compartment with a different (lower) pressurisation than the rest of the cabin to have a place for smokers, but that won´t work for economical reasons (installation costs, maintenance costs, you probably lose 2 rows of seats) and health safety reasons for the crews (FAs would have to work in there).
 
mandala499
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:48 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 96):
Stopping smoking isn't a 'choice' for most smokers - it is a physical addiction that cannot be beaten. It is not a 'weakness' or lack of 'will power' or even lack of desire.

Get some nicotinamide in a vitamin...   It works wonders!   

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
I choose to smoke.

Therefore, you took that choice... why impose your choice on someone else.
Not smoking, is a the basis, the choice of smoking is based on whether or not you want to move away from the natural state (non-smoking) to smoking. Therefore, the right of non-smoker (unfortunately, but rightly) should prefer the non-smoker.
Neither you nor I, were born as smokers... we became smokers because we chose to. Why should we impose that on others.

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
Last but not least, many of you said that the smell is disgusting, both in planes and trains. Smell is not as bad as noise.

Because we smokers, have are desensitized to the smell of tobacco... what appears to be a slight tobacco smell to us, can be a huge stench to others.
When I don't smoke for a few days (due to travelling, etc), as soon I smoke, I realize how bad it smells.
When I travel long haul, reach my destination, pull out my dirty laundry of the clothes I used when I was smoking prior to the journey, the cigarette stench is quite strong. That's now desensitized we are when we smoke!

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
I think SQ (or some major Asian Airline) has implemented a few like them.

Funny you use SQ as an example. SQ does not allow smoking, does not allow smoking in the flight deck... and Singapore smoking laws are quite strong.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 109):
Christ, even though I smoke, I'd NEVER want it to happen on airlines. I wouldn't fly said airlines/flights. Ever. Nor do I smoke before flying, as I don't want to subject my neighbors to the smell.

There you go... another smoker who does not want smoking to return to the airline flights.   
We should count a tally, how many smokers in this topic who does not want smoking to return... (only smokers can participate :p ).

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 109):
Ever got a ride with someone who regularly smokes in his/her car? It's freaking disgusting in there. Smells like, well,

Oh God! Tell me about it! If someone wants to smoke in my car, I tell them... you smoke only when I tell you it's OK or not to smoke... because as a rule, smoke only with the windows open! I don't want to subject my family to our filthy habit!

Quoting eielef (Reply 124):
My province´s economy is based, 25% of it, on tobacco. How do you fix that?

That's a separate issue to allowing smoking in aircraft. Not allowing smoking in aircraft or re-allowing it to happen will not impact their well being.
Land use can change... My mother's family came from a region whose economy was 80% based on tobacco... So? It's now down to about 40%, thanks to increase of other sectors coming in... Tobacco growing now is only like 10% of the district's economy, the remaining 30% is in the tobacco factories. The 30% will set to fall further as the manufacturing moves towards larger more centralized production facilities, and by 2020 it will go down to about 10%.
Do I see the people there suffering? No, they're now happier because there are more opportunities for them.

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
- Last generation BOEINGS delivered to commercial airlines, made in the USA, are still coming out of the factory with ashtrays in the toilet and galleys. (Ready for hypocrisy!)

Toilets and galleys are NOT made by Boeing. They are made by the cabin and galley providers such as BF Goodrich, Zodiac, etc. Airlines specify whether or not they want to have ashtray in it. The default choice has for a while been "no ashtray", and "ashtray" as options.

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
- I didn't chose to be an addict, the cigs pack or no one asked me if i wanted to be one.. I only was a teenager, as the most of smokers when they started.

You chose to smoke! By doing so, you assume the risk of being addicted... after all, the fact that it has nicotine, is stated in the contents.
Same as a gambler... he/she didn't chose to be a gambling addict... however, by gambling, you assume the risk of becoming addicted to it.

Quoting eielef (Reply 140):
You, non-smoker, have the choice. Why can't I have the choice?

The choice for you is to not smoke and board the aircraft, or find other methods of transport that allows you to smoke. It's that simple.
I as a smoker find it utterly disgusting to see that an inconsiderate and selfish smoker like you, think it's your right to impose our habits onto others. It is people like you that is causing us smokers more and more restrictions on where we can smoke... yes... you.

*And I was shocked to find a western nicotine addict lighting his ciggy on the apron before boarding a jet while the jet next door was being refueled... Am like... BLOODY HELL!*

Quoting eielef (Reply 144):
The modern tobacco addiction was developed by the USA industries, as you mentioned Phillip Morris, as a massive consumption and made on purpose by genius designers, to make people addict.

Sorry, nicotine addiction, is not a modern thing.
Sorry, nicotine addiction where I am, came before Phillip Morris entered our country.
Hell! We even use unfiltered cigarettes as cough medication here as late as 1/2 century ago! *and it looks like a giant joint! :p *

Quoting eielef (Reply 144):
Aviation safety issues are still a big contradiction in lot of things. Inside of the airplane you can still find lots of dangerous and hazardous items, inside of the first aids box, and other devices, as oxigen masks O2 tubes, etc.

Just because there are dangerous and hazardous items inside, does not mean you can therefore demand your right to an unnecessary danger... and unnecessary health risk.
Items that are inside the first aid box are there because it is a legal requirement to have them, same with an oxygen mask...
Of course, we can do away with the oxygen mask and remove that risk... but at the cost of the airplanes flying at a lower altitude and our ticket costs rising because of the additional fuel burn...

Anyway, you haven't answered my question...

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 79):

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
I've liked that idea of having sort of a toilet for smokers only. I wouldn't care on paying for it.

My question: Would you pay for it if it was $2 a minute or $5 a minute or $10 a minute for the previlege of using the smokers' toilet onboard?
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

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