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Andy33
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:54 am

To modify an existing aircraft design so that it has smoke-tight compartments would undoubtedly require re-certification as it would affect the evacuation plan - doorways between cabins on multi-class aircraft are closed by curtains and not actual doors now precisely because they can be got through instantly without affecting others in an emergency. A physical door would take longer to get through and if hinged would block access for rows it swung back against.
That's a huge expense for an aircraft manufacturer - how many of these planes will they sell to recover the cost?
 
thaiflyer
Posts: 350
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:21 am

I'm happy that it is not allowed to smoke in planes/airports and i hope that this will never change.
But i have a few comments (if somebody cares)

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 86):
Even if we would allow cigarettes, how would you ever light them, since matches and lighters have been banned from being taken on board?

This may be the case in the USA but for the most part of the world it is complete legal to take matches or lighters with you on the plane only lighter fluid is one of the items which are banned.

Also it is proven in many studies that countries which have marijuana legalized and have a good control system in place like in The Netherlands the drug related crimes are much lower then in many other countries where marijuana is illegal.
 
EIDL
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:25 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
- Last generation BOEINGS delivered to commercial airlines, made in the USA, are still coming out of the factory with ashtrays in the toilet and galleys. (Ready for hypocrisy!)

Legally required to put out the cigarettes of those who insist on lighting up and have them confiscated - nothing more.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:44 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
Those ideas of Marihuana smoking (i've seen that also in Netherlands, Belgium and Uruguay) I don't believe is smart. First it comes marihuana, and soon will come cocaine or worse things. I wouldn't like to live in a country were you can smoke weed and even buy it in a shop, as cigarettes.

I'd rather live in a country where you can smoke weed legally than cigarettes. At least weed doesn't stink.

And tobacco/nicotine is more addictive than cocaine. I'd rather have someone sniffing some coke next to me than someone smoking tobacco. If they sniff tobacco, so be it; it doesn't affect me.

Quoting eielef (Reply 104):
I could quit smoking. I did it for over one year between 2011 an 2012. I'm a normal educated person, who also does sport, but who smokes 30 cigs a day. I choose to smoke. I'd offer my children their first cigarette if they wanted to. At home, anyone buy me smokes. I respect them, so I don't smoke while they are eating, nor in their bedrooms. The rest of the house I smoke when and where ever I want.

Welcome to my disrespected users list.

Quoting eielef (Reply 144):
as oxigen masks O2 tubes, etc.....

Right. You want people to die from 2nd hand smoke, and from decompression.

Good luck in your long fight with lung cancer in 20 years.
 
PhilBy
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:22 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 43):
Those e-cigarettes are worse than normal ones. When I commute on the train, there is a guy smoking one at the train station and it stinks way more than any normal cigarette.

There are a wide variety of flavours available including scent free. On the plus side propylene glycol is non-harmful and much easier to wash off than a mix ot tar,benzene etc

Quoting delta88 (Reply 93):
If There is a way to airtight a section please correct me, im not an aircraft engineer

Ideally it would need to be included at the design stage and would require significant modification of the ventilation systems. If retrofitted I suspect it would be at a similar cost to a cargo conversion and certification of even a lightly pressurised internal bulkhead would be a nightmare beyond even the rapid decomp cases. As pointed out earlier this might also require additional energency exits.
Now we move to the contractual and pay-scale issues of smoking compartment vs non-smoking compartment certified staff or does the airline introduce a raunchy little NBC type uniform?

Quoting eielef (Reply 144):
In safety issues, nowadays aviation is far from being safe

Certfication requirment is maximum one hull loss per 10^9 flight hours or say (at 250 passengers/ac) one passenger/crew per 4million flight hours.
If we then say that a crew member flies 8hours/day 300 days per year for 30 years that would be a 1:56 chance. If we allowed smoking on board the ac there would be little allowance left for mechanical or structural failure.
 
elal 744
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:38 am

Even if there were to be a smoking section on a plane (which will never happen) the hypocritical behavior of the passengers would ensure that it was empty. On El Al in the early 90's I would sit in the smoking section as I enjoyed smoking. Passengers would ask for non-smoking seats and wander to the back of the plane, find an empty smoking seat, have a cigarette, then return to thier non-smoking area. It go so every time I used the bathroon, I had to roust soneone from my seat.

I would, however, greatly appreciate airports builing outdoor smoking spaces - a cage like structure that is outdoors (termianal balcony or rooftop) with some overhead protection from the rain. It should be easy to clean (hose down) and being outside (or semi-outside) no buildup of smoke for workers to deal with. Thus a smoker could take shorter flights with a ciggie break in the middle.
Vercere bracis meis
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:18 pm

Quoting elal 744 (Reply 155):
I would, however, greatly appreciate airports builing outdoor smoking spaces

You would love Dubai Airport. Not only are there smoking areas but the Emirates First Class Lounge has a dedicated Cigar Lounge! Forget the cheap cigarettes, have some habanos.

But if a first class ticket is beyond reach, have a look at this: http://www.moodiereport.com/document.php?doc_id=30471
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:42 pm

I can't believe some here are actually debating if second hand smoke hurts other people. That is proven. Known. Statistics show it isn't coincident correlation.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 56):
Fifty years after the extreme danger of smoking became public knowledge and there are still people fool enough to smoke.

I'm ok as long as it isn't around me.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 43):
Those e-cigarettes are worse than normal ones. When I commute on the train, there is a guy smoking one at the train station and it stinks way more than any normal cigarette.

Some do... There are 'smell less' versions that still stink. No smoker can smell them, but those of us who don't smoke can.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 59):
There are so many flavors and scents available now, and many of them smell like cat piss & skunk ass combined.

   Some are *really* bad...

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 55):
Now, if the airline wants to charge $20 a minute, would you still pay?

Hey, if it makes a profit. But how many wouldn't 'rent the room' for the mile high club?  
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 55):
Blame the inconsiderate smokers who in the past smoke in front of people who did not want to get exposure to secondary smoke... If you want to blame someone for discrimination, blame them!

That certainly influenced me. Or the ones who though smoking where the kids are playing at children's parties! There are many well mannered smokers. But the ones that aren't set the impression.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 55):
Am a smoker, and I too, would avoid that airline like a plague!

As would all but one of my smoker friends.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 76):
What's it to me if you have a beer or two? It's your liver that gets wasted. When smoking, both your lungs and mine get affected.

I wish people wouldn't get drunk on flights. Cest la vie. It is easier to handle and at least, unless they spill on me, I don't smell like it. Besides, I know our bodies are well built to naturally remove small amounts of alcohol...So not a worry.

Quoting tockeyhockey (Reply 77):

one of the main groups you'd have to deal with is the flight attendants:

   How would one prove they are not being economically forced to work smoking flights?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 89):
I am addicted to alcohol, but I can go several days without it. If you can't go 19 hours without smoking you are an addict. I was a heavy smoker at one time, but I haven't touched one in 15 years.

You are a brave man. Thank you for your post.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 94):
Around my house the only people who smoke are old, poor, or degenerate drug addicts. Two or the three have no money for air travel. When I visit a wealthier parts of town I see fewer smokers.

My area too. The wealthier almost "hide the habit." They certainly smoke less.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 106):
Quoting eljonno (Reply 98):
I hope that in my lifetime, the sale of tobacco will be outlawed entirely.

I hope not. Illicit drugs are illegal, but their popularity continues to grow.

I hope not too. We already have cigarette smuggling from Mexico to California due to our ridiculous taxes. If cigarettes were illegal, they would be 'cool again.' I dislike smoking but I would like to see the taxes reduced (slightly, maybe reduce the cost of a pack of cigs $1 so that the criminal gangs lose the economic incentive to smuggle).

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 121):
More kids drown when ice cream sales go up. Should we ban ice cream?

No coincident correlation with hot weather, now is there?   Both swimming and ice cream consumption go up when it is hot...   

Lightsaber
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Gatorman96
Posts: 841
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:23 pm

Question answered. Smoking, in its current form, will most likely never be allowed back on commercial aircraft.

Can this thread be moved to the lounge?
 
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autothrust
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:44 pm

A interesting fact; since the smoking has been banned in public places recent years, there are less preterm neonates.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...S0140-6736%2814%2960082-9/abstract
Flown on: DC-9, MD-80, Fokker 100, Bae 146 Avro, Boeing 737-300, 737-400, 747-200, 747-300,747-400, 787-9, Airbus A310, A319, A320, A321, A330-200,A330-300, A340-313, A380, Bombardier CSeries 100/300, CRJ700ER/CRJ900, Embraer 190.
 
rwessel
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:16 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
- I don't know if alcohol or cigarrettes, what of both kills more active and PASSIVE consumers per year. (In car accidents there aren't only envolved drunk people).

According to the CDC, of the 480,000 tobacco related deaths in the US each year, 41,000 are from second hand smoke. In 2012, there were 34,000 motor vehicle related deaths in the US.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

Clearly not all motor vehicle related deaths are due to alcohol, so second hand smoke "wins" by a considerable margin.

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
- Last generation BOEINGS delivered to commercial airlines, made in the USA, are still coming out of the factory with ashtrays in the toilet and galleys. (Ready for hypocrisy!)

Unless the regulations have recently changed, ashtrays are legally required in lavs. And it *is* a safety issue. If someone does light up in the lav, they need someplace to put our their cigarette, and if there's no ashtray, they'd probably toss it in the trash, which would certainly be a fire hazard.
 
alfa164
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
I've seen in this "conversation", lots of United States of Americas users talking about morals, from: how terrible and unhealthy tobacco is for the non-smokers, to the statement that "I chose smoking and being and addict". Other ridiculose things as "I don't know in my country, but maybe in yours, blah blah..

Let's start so, with the first truth of this hypocrite comments: The cigarrette as we all know it nowadays as tobacco + nicotine + and other harmful and deadly things (Known by other as "Marlborism"), was created by UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

- I didn't chose to be an addict, the cigs pack or no one asked me if i wanted to be one.. I only was a teenager, as the most of smokers when they started.

- I'm quite sure that if one bussinesman of the US, realize that this business could bring money, without hesitation he will do it.

- I don't know if alcohol or cigarrettes, what of both kills more active and PASSIVE consumers per year. (In car accidents there aren't only envolved drunk people).

- Last generation BOEINGS delivered to commercial airlines, made in the USA, are still coming out of the factory with ashtrays in the toilet and galleys. (Ready for hypocrisy!)


So please stop with hypocrisy, study a little bit of modern history and try to be serious.

What hypocrisy? We all know tobacco was first grown in the Americas (by native Americans, before Western Europeans arrived); and we know that was the beginning of the tobacco industry. Nobody claimed otherwise.

Other than that, you may not have chosen to be an addict, but you - presumably, now a mature individual - have chosen not to quit. And it is clear that tobacco kills more people than alcohol; the statistics are available. Don't avoid them.

As far as ash trays in airliners... why is the hypocrisy? Boeing often used the same door panel for restrooms, for example, for decades; keeping the openings for ask trays (usually with no actual ash tray in there) is simply a cost saving. If you think that is an invitation for you to smoke., you don't need to be on an airplane.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Heinkel
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:39 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 147):
Quoting delta88 (Reply 103):
its very unlikely they will let me take a box of smokes onboard.

You can take cigarettes onboard, just nothing to light them with. I took smokes with me everywhere when I smoked.

Most airlines sell cigarettes duty free on board.
 
alfa164
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:55 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 70):
All marihuana, alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. But the first two can make you lost the control of your acts. Cigarettes won't

If you can't travel 9 hours on a flight without smoking, then apparently cigarettes can cause you to lose control of your actions.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting Karadion (Reply 1):

  

Sure, with technology you could have a seperate system and section but, like almost anything else, it adds weight, complexity which takes away from fuel consumption. Once WN bought us, the XM radio rigs were removed from our planes for weight savings and WI FI availability replaced it.

For the smokers out there, sorry but keep the change. No thanks. Lets keep things smoke free. But, it never hurts to inquire (this thread) I respect that.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
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mayor
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:10 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
Let's start so, with the first truth of this hypocrite comments: The cigarrette as we all know it nowadays as tobacco + nicotine + and other harmful and deadly things (Known by other as "Marlborism"), was created by UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Why and when did this turn into a bash the U.S.A. thread?

Quoting eielef (Reply 137):
- I didn't chose to be an addict, the cigs pack or no one asked me if i wanted to be one..

Sure you did......the first time you lit up and smoking cigarettes has been known as addictive for decades, so surely you knew it when you first smoked.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
AT
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:32 pm

An interesting thread. Although I personally hate everything about cigarette smoking, and I don't think smoking ever should, nor will, be allowed on commercial aircraft, I don't think the original poster deserves the vitriol some have responded with.

Initiation of smoking is a choice, typically, but addiction is not. And once you are already addicted, it is very difficult to stop. The broader goal is to get fewer people to smoke, but that's not relevant to this forum. In the meanwhile, I can understand *why* people who do smoke would be frustrated on long-haul flights. As indicated above, some airports have smoking rooms, but smokers should also bring ample nicotine replacement products on long-haul flights.


Two other questions:

-is there a blanket policy with regard to e-cigarette use on aircraft? I know that many foreign airlines ban them entirely, but not sure if that's so in the US.

-Also is the no smoking law in the US pertain to smoking on ANY aircraft or just on those of commercial airlines? What if I chartered or owned a jet? (wishful thinking!) Would I be able to smoke then?
 
vikkyvik
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:44 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 149):
Oh God! Tell me about it! If someone wants to smoke in my car, I tell them... you smoke only when I tell you it's OK or not to smoke... because as a rule, smoke only with the windows open! I don't want to subject my family to our filthy habit!

Yep. I don't smoke in my car at all, nor in my apartment.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 153):
At least weed doesn't stink.

Have to disagree - I can't stand the smell.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 89):
I am addicted to alcohol, but I can go several days without it.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you are addicted, and I hope you are able to control it in some way, should you choose to.

Second, even though I smoke, I can go a whole week without smoking fairly easily. I don't even smoke on most weekends.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:47 pm

Smoking is possible in certain situations. You can go Mad Men in a private aircraft. Around 15 years ago, Arnold Schwarzenegger booked the entire F cabin of a UA 747 so he and his entourage could fly LAX-NRT and back while smoking cigars.
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:46 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 147):
What? You are speaking on something you are not knowlegable about.
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and...l-marijuana-what%E2%80%99s-it-good
 
rampbro
Posts: 555
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:18 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 133):

It´s probably as bad for you as tobacco. I really don´t buy the "Medicinal Argument"

If you don't *buy* the Medicinal Argument, why don't you read this article:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 169):
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and...l-marijuana-what%E2%80%99s-it-good

Oh wait, you posted that link.   

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 163):
If you can't travel 9 hours on a flight without smoking, then apparently cigarettes can cause you to lose control of your actions.

I dunno. The hardest nic fit I ever saw on a plane was a Newfie coming home from the rigs (a bayman for anyone who knows what that means). The routing was YYC-YYZ, and we took a 45 minute delay at the gate in YYC. By the time we landed in YYZ, it had been about 4h45min on the plane, and this was back when YYC had a smoking lounge next to the Tim Hortons in the A concourse, so this guy had gone 5h15min tops without a smoke. We were on block early at YYZ, but the rampers didn't meet the flight for about 10 minutes (not unusual at YYZ round about 6 am). Well this guy was complaining loudly to a flight attendant, was ready to pop the slides and have a dart on the ramp, just causing a scene (the flight attendants didn't bite). Still, he was able to contain his urges until the bridge got pulled up and he could hustle a quarter mile landside to have his smoke.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:57 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 165):
Why and when did this turn into a bash the U.S.A. thread?

When folks from the US started spouting nonsense about the USA moral superiority on the issue of smoking and pointing to nations with high numbers of smokers like the OP home country as 'backward'.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:31 am

My mother´s current regular long haul flight is MTY-MEX-connect-SCL-connect-MDZ to visit family. A mix of AM and LAN. How she does it without smoking? She literally takes a box of Nicoderm with her or whatever it´s called these days. She is 72 and can do it. Others can too.

Quoting rampbro (Reply 170):
Oh wait, you posted that link.

Yes. Read it too. You should also. I have nothing against people using Marihuana. In fact, I´m glad things are moving towards its full regulation-legalisation. But I don´t buy the medicinal argument. I´ve explained my reasons. Cocaine also has medical properties. Not the plant, the actual alkaloid. Still, it´s never been used as an argument for legalizing it.
 
eielef
Topic Author
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:57 am

Marihuana is good and tobacco is bad? How is that? As I was a child in school, teachers taught us both were bad. Cigarettes at least are legal, and sold to any person over 18 (here, at least, in some places of the US to people over 21). You can buy them almost in any kiosk, just for 14,5AR$ (aprox 1,7U$S). Weed you have to buy it to an ilegal dealer, and you might go to prison if you are caught. At least in my country, and most the countries I've been to.

Few days ago, a truck driver was sent to prison for 18 years, because of trying to smuggle Marihuana from Northeastern regions (CNQ) to Buenos Aires. He was carrying a big amount, and it was proved it was for sale.

Almost the same a criminals or a raper (according to the law, is between 8 and 25 years of prison).

I was just asking, at the beginning of the thread, if it was posible, technically speaking, to smoke again in planes. Just that. Didn't want to offend anyone. Sorry if you feel so, dc9northwest

Cheers,
Eielef
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 173):
Marihuana is good and tobacco is bad?

No. In the context of smoking one or the other in an enclosed space, such a an airliner, with people who don´t like the smell or value their health both are bad. Which relates to your OT.

For other contexts, there is an ongoing debate. Also, in many countries.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:32 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 169):

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 147):
What? You are speaking on something you are not knowlegable about.
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and...l-marijuana-what%E2%80%99s-it-good

Everything I stated has been substantiated by the article you provided, so thank you. I assume that you are using this article as your source of information?

I am only speaking from my own personal success story with using medicinal marijuana to alleviate the symptoms and side effects associated with my own terminal illness.
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AR385
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:59 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 175):

I am only speaking from my own personal success story with using medicinal marijuana to alleviate the symptoms and side effects associated with my own terminal illness.

I am truly very sorry that you have a terminal illness.

Having been informed of that, I´d rather not argue with you the differences on views you and I have on Marihuana medical use. It becomes academic and irrelevant.

My father passed at 62 of stomach cancer, directly related to his tobacco use. I miss him every single minute of every day. It´s been 10 years, and the pain of not having him around hurts the same. And yes, I blame BIG TOBACCO.

I wish you the best.

If you want to further talk about the issue, I´ll read every PM you send, if you so wish.

[Edited 2014-06-06 00:15:06]
 
alfa164
Posts: 3864
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:17 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 166):
I don't think the original poster deserves the vitriol some have responded with.

Perhaps because he continues to blame anyone and everyone else for his addiction, rather than simply taking any responsibility for it.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
eielef
Topic Author
Posts: 726
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RE: Could We Ever Smoke Again In Planes?

Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:47 pm

I was driven from TUC to MDZ yesterday, 1000km trip. We made just one stop for lunch. I didn't smoke in all the trip. 9h30, as my aunt is pregnant and she is against smoking (plus she owns the car). As we arrived to our destination I felt proud. I even wasn't rushed for smoking. So, if I could spend 9h30, I could spend also 13 hours those of an intercontinental flight from EZE.

The thing is: I was mentally analysing what we've all written here. And YOU WERE ALL RIGHT. At home, I'm hurting/making seek my family just because I'm too lazy for smoking in our garden. In a plane, not only there is a risk of fire on board, to drop ashes in someones eye (whose eye can be easily lost), but there is a risk on the structure and pressurisation of the plane, plus health risks to all other passengers and crew members.
Smoking on board any commercial plane, as to any other public transportation unit, such as buses, trains or ships, should never be allowed again.

I sleep 6-7 hours a day. I never woke up, in middle of the night, just to have a cigarette. I don't need it. If i don't need to smoke everyday so many hours, why couldn't I do it while in a plane? As I'm flying, if I was sleeping, I wouldn't have any wish to smoke.

Well, thanks to all your comments, I think i've learned some valuable things. Thanks!

Cheers
Eielef @MDZ

PS: The only thing I'd ask will be some smoker lounges, next to the gate (after security and passport control, in the boarding area) and in the arrivals area. I've been waiting more than 2 hours to clear customs in SFO or MIA and waiting there makes the no smoking pain so much longer! In the beginning of the line, please build a smokers place.

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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos