washingtonflyer
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:39 am

Quoting compensateme (Reply 93):
Local markets drive hubs; as I mentioned earlier, per an LAXIntl thread from a decade+ ago, four of the top 5 connecting hubs from the time have either been dismantled or torn apart.

And how many of them had another hub from the same airline within a short distance away? All of them.

How many does US have that is within a short distance to CLT.

None.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5873
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:00 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 94):
That has nothing to do with US, but with North Dakota booming. I should have been more clear. The AA/US merger has provided no new service to old AA hubs but has to old US hubs.

You're picking a choosing your argument based on the same logic.

Regardless, I don't even know why you're arguing. Show me where anyone is saying CLT will be drastically reduced.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
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RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 99):
It's a silly comparison given the fare difference, particularly given that IND-DTW is drivable (~4 hours downtown to downtown).

It was your comparison  . It's not the best example, but the context of it still stands.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 100):
And how many of them had another hub from the same airline within a short distance away? All of them.

How many does US have that is within a short distance to CLT.

DL cut CVG from a peak of 650 departures to about 250, before the merger with NW was announced; CVG does not serve the same geographic patterns as ATL.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 101):
Regardless, I don't even know why you're arguing. Show me where anyone is saying CLT will be drastically reduced.

Define "drastic." I fully believe CLT will rescind to capacity levels seen a decade ago, which will make the hub similar in size to MSP & DTW, despite having significantly less local traffic.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14003
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RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:41 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 102):
It was your comparison

Not the local markets. It's hard to compare the two because ATL is much larger but also generally much lower-yielding.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 102):
DL cut CVG from a peak of 650 departures to about 250, before the merger with NW was announced; CVG does not serve the same geographic patterns as ATL.

375 miles to ATL, but it is much closer to Detroit - 220 miles. that's pretty close.

[Edited 2014-06-08 15:06:03]
 
bchandl
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 1):
In 2014 alone CLT has/will see 10 new routes, 9 from US and 1 from F9

Is this a net gain, or just that there have been 10 new routes started? I mean surely SOMETHING has been cut, especially with the last year being all about the merger.

If 10 is net, that is indeed pretty impressive. I just don't like using CLT because it seems like(with BHM as my gome airport) I always end up on USx and having to park remotely and walk into the terminal is beyond annoying, and so is the trip back out there to get on the next puddle jumper.
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:32 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 104):
375 miles to ATL, but it is much closer to Detroit - 220 miles. that's pretty close.

As I mentioned, it was downsized BEFORE the merger took place. And despite its proximity to ATL, it does not serve the same geographic roles.

Would you say Charlotte and Washington, D.C. compete largely for the same connecting traffic?
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
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RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:14 am

Quoting compensateme (Reply 106):

As I mentioned, it was downsized BEFORE the merger took place. And despite its proximity to ATL, it does not serve the same geographic roles.

Let's be clear here. While CVG was down from its peak of 600 daily flights from 2005, the CVG hub was still a full fledged, 300+ daily flight hub when the merger with NW was announced in 2008. Post merger it was eliminated as a hub due to its redundancy with DTW.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8410
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:16 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 107):
Post merger it was eliminated as a hub due to its redundancy with DTW.

Actually.....I think DL still defines it as a hub.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:52 am

Quoting compensateme (Reply 106):
As I mentioned, it was downsized BEFORE the merger took place. And despite its proximity to ATL, it does not serve the same geographic roles.

No two markets can serve the same markets precisely, but there is significant overlap between the two. And, the merger which created a larger DL (including DTW) wrote the end of CVG.

In late 2005/early 2006, DL had 600 flights a day at CVG. That number was reduced to about 450. 450 is a major hub in anyone's book. In 2008, when DL and NW merged, CVG still had 14,000,000 enplanements.

That number was slashed and in 2013, CVG was down to under 6,000,000 enplanements - thanks to both ATL and DTW.
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Charlotte Observer Article...

Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:00 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 107):
Let's be clear here. While CVG was down from its peak of 600 daily flights from 2005, the CVG hub was still a full fledged, 300+ daily flight hub when the merger with NW was announced in 2008. Post merger it was eliminated as a hub due to its redundancy with DTW.

CVG peaked at nearly 650 daily departures, shortly after DL closed what was left of its DFW hub. Operations were gradually reduced, beginning in DL's bankruptcy. At the time of the merger, CVG had lost about half its operations; after the "fuel crisis" of summer 2008, further reductions were imposed, bringing CVG to about 250 flights around the time of the merger's close. Further cuts were announced in 2009, as a derivative of the soft economy and the redundancies with DTW, and CVG dropped to about 175 flights. Five years later, it stands just above 100 but remains a hub.

None of this changes my point, which is that CVG heavily declined before the merger was announced/closed, mainly as a derivative of its lacking local market. DL had tried several times (SimpliFares) to fix it unsuccessfully... I'm merely countering a point that no hub was shuttered due to lacking local traffic. That's just false.
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