Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 32): You have got to be kidding? Such entitlement! |
Quoting usxguy (Reply 48): At my airline, eligibles are cleared AFTER employees - unless flying WITH employee, and retirees board after current staff & eligibles.what's wrong with that? |
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51): "Stick with us and you can enjoy free travel after you retire." |
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51): What is wrong with it is that airplane fly around FULL these days. Any few seats left unoccupied are a precious commodity. |
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51): My point is that existing rules about travel have not been updated in decades. It is time that the entire industry reevaluate them for fairness, respect and ease of work for the gate agents. Too many times I have seen shenanigans taking place among active employees where someone that appeared on the overhead monitors is cleared ahead of some higher on the list. One friend of mine took an iPhone picture of the monitor and sent it in to the company to prove what was going on. |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 49): I've worked for the same company for the last 33 years. I've worked through hostile takeovers, downsizing, rightsizing, business process re-engineering, mergers, acquisitions and divestments. I've had pay freezes and pay reductions. I get some very nice benefits now, but, like the vast majority of folks, those benefits will cease the day I retire. |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47): Quoting Prost (Reply 6): I'll agree to disagree. My partner and I have gone on vacation together, but weren't able to leave the same day. If he didn't travel at my seniority he wouldn't have made the flight. Again, our families have to deal with the strangeness of our schedules, and the flight benefits are a small compensation for that. Again, just my opinion, and I don't mean to disparage opposing opinions, I'm just glad family is at my seniority at my carrier. Sorry, my ability to make a living trumps your ability to go on vacation. Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 16): but the last time it happened I was trying to get to MSP for the funeral of an old friend Any airline employee worth their salt knows that you buy a ticket when you really need to be somewhere. Quoting mayor (Reply 31): Quite a lot of disrespect on this thread for the retirees, I've noticed. Respect is earned, not given. When you disrespect an active employee by saying your vacation is more important than their job, you get no respect in return. |
Quoting CV880 (Reply 53): Retiree Travel doesn't cost the airline a dime |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 52): Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):"Stick with us and you can enjoy free travel after you retire." You were promised free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. It's not the airline's fault when people bury their head in the sand. I have never buried my head in the sand. I have carefully monitored my benefit package and between Chapter 11 filings and sheer arrogance the value has been diluted. Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51): What is wrong with it is that airplane fly around FULL these days. Any few seats left unoccupied are a precious commodity. Which is why they should go to the people that are trying to get to work, instead of someone who wants to go on vacation. I have said repeatedly that when someone is going to work they SHOULD have priority. In the case I cited to MSP little missy was going shopping at the Mall of America. Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51): My point is that existing rules about travel have not been updated in decades. It is time that the entire industry reevaluate them for fairness, respect and ease of work for the gate agents. Too many times I have seen shenanigans taking place among active employees where someone that appeared on the overhead monitors is cleared ahead of some higher on the list. One friend of mine took an iPhone picture of the monitor and sent it in to the company to prove what was going on. |
Quoting usxguy (Reply 50): Here's how people are cleared at my company: - Employee & eligibles WITH employee - Eligibles NOT with employee - Retirees - Buddy pass riders - OAL – ZED - Jumpseaters - OAL non-ZED |
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51): It's not entitlement--I EARNED it. It was what I was PROMISED |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55): The people that program the software don't work for free. And there's a lot of it that goes into making the non-rev experience seem almost seamless. |
Quoting 777stl (Reply 41): Current employees that are currently contributing to the company should have priority over retirees. It's not disrespect, it's common sense. |
Quoting 777stl (Reply 41): So what, we should bow down to you in homage for being a gate agent for thirty years? I don't get this "no respect" victim mentality. |
Quoting cslusarc (Reply 46): Do buddy passes expire, or can an employee accumulate them? |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47): Sorry, my ability to make a living trumps your ability to go on vacation. |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47): Respect is earned, not given. When you disrespect an active employee by saying your vacation is more important than their job, you get no respect in return. |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 49): I simply don't see the need for airline retirees to qualify for concessional flights. It's not disrespectful. |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 52): You were promised free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. It's not the airline's fault when people bury their head in the sand. |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55): Quoting CV880 (Reply 53):Retiree Travel doesn't cost the airline a dime Yes, it does. The only reason guest passes are still around is that the revenue from them offsets some of costs of all non-revenue related travel costs. |
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 58): You're very much entitled. So much so, that you're in denial. You think you earned something years ago, and have been brain washed over the years to the seniority based system. NW "promised" you something years ago. You're twisting the words. You earned free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. Not confirmed, knock whoever I want off the list, because I've worked here for 40 years travel. |
Quoting bluefly (Reply 23): The 8 buddy passes can actually be used as 16 oneway passes, and I have a feeling that the 24 passes refers to the number of one ways (someone correct me if I'm wrong). |
Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 38): Your math is wrong. It went from 24 one way passes to 16 one way passes or realistically, from 12 round trip to 8 round trip. |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 10): As an airline ex-employee, I don't actually see why retirees should get any benfit. *shrug* |
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 64): Active employees are the ones trying to get to & from work. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 61): See above.........he's referring to "SPACE AVAILABLE" travel.........not confirmed. |
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 67): Not going to fly. It's unacceptable to have someone who's not even working there anymore, go ahead of an active employee. It's just nuts. Hence the sense of entitlement, and disrespect to those who are active. |
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 60): I suspect that 'buddy passes' and certain non-revenue travel benefits for employees and retirees will disappear as too costly and no longer having to offer some of benefits to attract and keep employees. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 61): Seems to be a generational problem, nowadays. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 61): If you can't get back to work on time, maybe you should plan better. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 61): Don't talk too loud. Passes for active employees aren't exactly covering their costs, either. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 68): That's true.....I did........but, back in '71, who could forecast that flights would be going out 90-100% full after I retired, compared to the times when the airlines considered 50% a good load factor? Could anyone have seen into the future when there would be upgrades at the gate, internet sales, etc. that have fundamentally changed the way people fly and how it affects non-revving? Could you? |
Quoting mayor (Reply 68): The thing is, I hear this all the time......."you knew you would be flying at a lesser priority after you retired". That's true.....I did........but, back in '71, who could forecast that flights would be going out 90-100% full after I retired, compared to the times when the airlines considered 50% a good load factor? Could anyone have seen into the future when there would be upgrades at the gate, internet sales, etc. that have fundamentally changed the way people fly and how it affects non-revving? Could you? |
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 64): No one needs 24 buddy passes a year. Buddy pass riders usually are not educated about how buddy passes work. They waste a lot of agent time. Plus each year it's harder and harder for buddy pass riders to get on. I only gave out 3 in almost four years. 2 were for the same person. The two people I gave them to were a boyfriend and a really close friend, and only after several lectures about the rules. As an airline employee there's nothing more precious that flight benefits. However I think DL makes some money off of them because they're usually not much less than a revenue ticket domestically. They're only a bargain on international flights. My friend flew to Europe in BusinessElite roundtrip for $350. |
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73): I'm sorry you have a pension. I'm sorry you had excellent seniority. I'm sorry you got to work during the best times of the industry. I'm sorry you were actually able to retire from an airline job. |
Quoting usxguy (Reply 50): Here's how people are cleared at my company: -Employee & eligibles WITH employee -Eligibles NOT with employee -Retirees -Buddy pass riders -OAL – ZED -Jumpseaters -OAL non-ZED |
Quoting ripcordd (Reply 39): Spouses dep children and reg companion have been unlimited at AA for a long time, |
Quoting mayor (Reply 68): The thing is, I hear this all the time......."you knew you would be flying at a lesser priority after you retired". That's true.....I did........but, back in '71, who could forecast that flights would be going out 90-100% full after I retired, compared to the times when the airlines considered 50% a good load factor? Could anyone have seen into the future when there would be upgrades at the gate, internet sales, etc. that have fundamentally changed the way people fly and how it affects non-revving? Could you? |
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 70): Should have planed better. Oh, wait, that only applies to the younger, active duty crowd. They're the ones that need to sacrifice their jobs so you can go on vacation. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 75): I'm sorry no one seems to be able to answer my question. You're probably also sorry that, because of my age, I was able to hire on before you.........unfortunately, there's not much that you or I can do about that........it is what it is. As far as that's concerned I hear all the crying about how bad they have it, now........try this on for size.....Do the load planning for a full ATL flight, run upstairs and do the cabin service, maybe dump the lavs or help load bags, go back inside and finish the load planning, etc. After the flight leaves, go work the bagroom for the next flight which arrives in a couple of hours or do any GSE work that needs to be done to the vehicles including installing a new starter, putting a new belt on the belt loader, etc. When you're done with that, it's time for the next flight and it starts all over, again. Everyone has it difficult in some way, some more than others. Everyone's situation is different. Before you complain how bad you have it, walk a mile in my shoes. I went 10 years without a pay raise and we never had a profit sharing plan, BUT, we didn't complain about it or think that we needed a union. |
Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 79): This is incorrect. Registered companion travel up until January 6th, 2014 came out of your allotted 24 one-way pass pank. It is now unlimited however. |
Quoting longisland89 (Reply 62): Negative, retirees have 8 one way passes per year. |
Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 79): Back in my day... |
Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 79): If you haven't been able to adjust to the changes in the airline industry since the way it was in 1971, then that is your problem, and your problem ONLY. Too bad you haven't been able to cope with full flights. |
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73): Why should retirees get to go first? Can someone explain that? |
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 82): I would just like to be able to get to a cruise origination without having to go through cardiac arrest worrying about am I going to get there. TWO a year will not inconvenience anyone. |
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 11): Uh, Doug was pretty clear in the town hall that D3s don't make AA any money at all. In fact, he considers D3 passes lost revenue. These people never had anything to do with American Airlines yet they get to fly around for pennies because they know an airline employee. I think that's pretty generous... |
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73): I'm sorry you have a pension. I'm sorry you had excellent seniority. I'm sorry you got to work during the best times of the industry. I'm sorry you were actually able to retire from an airline job. I'm sorry today's employees qualify for food stamps. I'm sorry today's employees work more for less. I'm sorry today's employees are spread thinner than ever. I'm sorry today's employes barely make a livable wage. I'm sorry that today is about outsourcing to minimum wage workers. I'm sorry we work harder than you ever had to with less. I'm sorry that this industry is getting worse every year. I'm sorry that I'll never have a pension. These are travel PRIVILEGES, they're not a right. |
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8): |
Quoting user444555 (Reply 80): If most airlines give 8 round trips then I agree that sounds more fair. |
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73): I'm sorry we work harder than you ever had to with less. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 81): I will freely admit that I had no idea that going from an S-3 pass to an S-3B would make all that much difference. |
Quoting questions (Reply 13): Quoting vgnatl747 (Reply 12): but giving away that many buddy passes is lost revenue. there's an opportunity cost for those seats. Please clarify. |
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51): It's not entitlement--I EARNED it. It was what I was PROMISED. |
Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 57): I like how in this scenario eligibles not with the employee travel after all other employees. That's the way it should be at every carrier. |
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 89): Agreed; AA was an anomaly in allowing retirees to board ahead of active employees. |
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 89): The person now occupying that seat as a non-rev could have potentially been a fare-paying passenger. |
Quoting mayor (Reply 90): Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 89): The person now occupying that seat as a non-rev could have potentially been a fare-paying passenger. They also could have, potentially NOT have flown at all if they didn't have the benefit of the lower buddy pass fares. |
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 91): I definitely see both sides, but the former argument carries a bit more weight - and conclusive evidence - to support their side. |
Quoting quiet1 (Reply 94): Why not have active and retired employees travel at the same priority? A retiree with 30 years of service would be boarded after an active employee with 35 years, but before an active employee with 25 years. Kind of a "reward based" system based on number of years of service to the company. |
Quoting quiet1 (Reply 94): Why not have active and retired employees travel at the same priority? |
Quoting mayor (Reply 92): Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 91): I definitely see both sides, but the former argument carries a bit more weight - and conclusive evidence - to support their side. I wonder, though, that with as many problems that DL, for example, has had with buddy passes, that, in the long run, if they're really worth it. I would imagine that other airlines that offer them have run into the same problems. |
Quoting ripcordd (Reply 76): Mayor the guys went from 2001 thru 2012 without raise infact they took a pay cut about 26% and with their health care premiums that rose every year they took another pay cut for those years as well. I think the guys that are all laid off in ATL would love to do what you did just to have a job |
Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 7): Retirees argue that the new rules will cost the airline huge sums of money and that it creates incentives for new employees to plot how to plan free trips more than to learn their new jobs. “Shouldn’t they be looking at a cost-benefit analyst on something like this?” |