Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1902
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:57 pm

Here's how people are cleared at my company:

- Employee & eligibles WITH employee
- Eligibles NOT with employee
- Retirees
- Buddy pass riders
- OAL – ZED
- Jumpseaters
- OAL non-ZED
xx
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 32):
You have got to be kidding? Such entitlement!

It's not entitlement--I EARNED it. It was what I was PROMISED. It was just as much a part of my compensation package as my paycheck and my pension. "Stick with us and you can enjoy free travel after you retire." Who knew that load factors would reach over 90% making retiree benefits virtually worthless. It is time to reexamine the policies in light of a changing industry.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 48):
At my airline, eligibles are cleared AFTER employees - unless flying WITH employee, and retirees board after current staff & eligibles.what's wrong with that?

What is wrong with it is that airplane fly around FULL these days. Any few seats left unoccupied are a precious commodity. When you have a 1973 date of hire and a 2014 part-timer gets on ahead of you while you sit at the gate it is galling. Frankly--I have given up. I go to Kayak and hunt for a cheap fare to get where I want to go when I want to go and I do NOT fly on my own airline. I'd rather give the money to AA, UA, LH or anyone else going where I want to go. Plus my spousal unit and I get to sit together.

My point is that existing rules about travel have not been updated in decades. It is time that the entire industry reevaluate them for fairness, respect and ease of work for the gate agents. Too many times I have seen shenanigans taking place among active employees where someone that appeared on the overhead monitors is cleared ahead of some higher on the list. One friend of mine took an iPhone picture of the monitor and sent it in to the company to prove what was going on.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:46 pm



Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):
"Stick with us and you can enjoy free travel after you retire."

You were promised free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. It's not the airline's fault when people bury their head in the sand.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):

What is wrong with it is that airplane fly around FULL these days. Any few seats left unoccupied are a precious commodity.

Which is why they should go to the people that are trying to get to work, instead of someone who wants to go on vacation.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):

My point is that existing rules about travel have not been updated in decades. It is time that the entire industry reevaluate them for fairness, respect and ease of work for the gate agents. Too many times I have seen shenanigans taking place among active employees where someone that appeared on the overhead monitors is cleared ahead of some higher on the list. One friend of mine took an iPhone picture of the monitor and sent it in to the company to prove what was going on.

What does fraud have to do with a benefit you admittedly don't even use?

[Edited 2014-06-05 14:48:16]
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 49):
I've worked for the same company for the last 33 years. I've worked through hostile takeovers, downsizing, rightsizing, business process re-engineering, mergers, acquisitions and divestments. I've had pay freezes and pay reductions. I get some very nice benefits now, but, like the vast majority of folks, those benefits will cease the day I retire.

This is an airline webforum, not another industry. What You may get in another industry as a retiree has no relevance. We airline employees don't get 90% pensions of many in the public sector, esp in Calif, nor free medical benefits as many corporate/public employees do. Retiree Travel doesn't cost the airline a dime, esp since it is standby, so get over your complaints.
 
Dallas
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:37 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47):

Quoting Prost (Reply 6):
I'll agree to disagree. My partner and I have gone on vacation together, but weren't able to leave the same day. If he didn't travel at my seniority he wouldn't have made the flight. Again, our families have to deal with the strangeness of our schedules, and the flight benefits are a small compensation for that. Again, just my opinion, and I don't mean to disparage opposing opinions, I'm just glad family is at my seniority at my carrier.

Sorry, my ability to make a living trumps your ability to go on vacation.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 16):
but the last time it happened I was trying to get to MSP for the funeral of an old friend

Any airline employee worth their salt knows that you buy a ticket when you really need to be somewhere.

Quoting mayor (Reply 31):
Quite a lot of disrespect on this thread for the retirees, I've noticed.

Respect is earned, not given. When you disrespect an active employee by saying your vacation is more important than their job, you get no respect in return.

Completely agree. Plus I would think retirees have much more flexibility in flight selection compared to those that are still working. Retirees should be below active employees for many logical reasons that have already been mentioned.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting CV880 (Reply 53):
Retiree Travel doesn't cost the airline a dime

Yes, it does. The only reason guest passes are still around is that the revenue from them offsets some of costs of all non-revenue related travel costs.

The people that program the software don't work for free. And there's a lot of it that goes into making the non-rev experience seem almost seamless.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:57 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 52):
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):"Stick with us and you can enjoy free travel after you retire."
You were promised free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. It's not the airline's fault when people bury their head in the sand.
I have never buried my head in the sand. I have carefully monitored my benefit package and between Chapter 11 filings and sheer arrogance the value has been diluted.
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):
What is wrong with it is that airplane fly around FULL these days. Any few seats left unoccupied are a precious commodity.
Which is why they should go to the people that are trying to get to work, instead of someone who wants to go on vacation.
I have said repeatedly that when someone is going to work they SHOULD have priority. In the case I cited to MSP little missy was going shopping at the Mall of America.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):
My point is that existing rules about travel have not been updated in decades. It is time that the entire industry reevaluate them for fairness, respect and ease of work for the gate agents. Too many times I have seen shenanigans taking place among active employees where someone that appeared on the overhead monitors is cleared ahead of some higher on the list. One friend of mine took an iPhone picture of the monitor and sent it in to the company to prove what was going on.

Fraud is dealt with on the appropriate level in the company but still people try to skirt the rules. How many of you work under the same rules that were written in the 1960
's?

Maverick--this post was way beneath your usual level of discourse.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1574
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:11 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 50):
Here's how people are cleared at my company:

- Employee & eligibles WITH employee
- Eligibles NOT with employee
- Retirees
- Buddy pass riders
- OAL – ZED
- Jumpseaters
- OAL non-ZED


I like how in this scenario eligibles not with the employee travel after all other employees. That's the way it should be at every carrier.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1897
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):
It's not entitlement--I EARNED it. It was what I was PROMISED

You're very much entitled. So much so, that you're in denial. You think you earned something years ago, and have been brain washed over the years to the seniority based system. NW "promised" you something years ago. You're twisting the words. You earned free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. Not confirmed, knock whoever I want off the list, because I've worked here for 40 years travel.

But I get it. You built the airline! You deserve more! You work better than most. You know the ins, and outs, and because of that, you earned your place in the gold club.   
"The low fares airline."
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
The people that program the software don't work for free. And there's a lot of it that goes into making the non-rev experience seem almost seamless.

and none of what you say has anything to do with differentiating retiree non rev travel benefits from active employees. The software is designed to handle one or thousands of itinerary bookings.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15521
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:13 am

I suspect that 'buddy passes' and certain non-revenue travel benefits for employees and retirees will disappear as too costly and no longer having to offer some of benefits to attract and keep employees.
They may become a bargaining chip by unions, something to give up instead of more outsourcing of jobs, pay and benefits cuts. As noted, buddy passes are loaded with problems the airlines and employees really don't want to deal with. I also suspect some classes of these passes will become more like non-employee frequent flyer plans, with far fewer flights they can be used on, far fewer seats to be allocated for the lower tier users.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:59 am

Quoting 777stl (Reply 41):
Current employees that are currently contributing to the company should have priority over retirees. It's not disrespect, it's common sense.

And they do, at most airlines. Those that had priority over active employees (not me at DL) are complaining that they had this privilege for years and suddenly the rug has been pulled out from under them. When I talk of disrespect of retirees, I'm not talking about this, I'm talking about the general tone of this thread.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 41):
So what, we should bow down to you in homage for being a gate agent for thirty years? I don't get this "no respect" victim mentality.

I never said that.....I'm talking about the general tone of this thread. I'm getting the feeling that you don't have respect for anyone, let alone retirees. Seems to be a generational problem, nowadays.

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 46):
Do buddy passes expire, or can an employee accumulate them?

At DL you get 8 per year (anniversary year). If you don't use them, you lose them and get 8 new ones.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47):
Sorry, my ability to make a living trumps your ability to go on vacation.

Last I checked, passes were to be used for pleasure use, ONLY. If you can't get back to work on time, maybe you should plan better.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47):

Respect is earned, not given. When you disrespect an active employee by saying your vacation is more important than their job, you get no respect in return.

Funny, when I was on vacation and had to get back to work, no one cut me any slack as far as boarding priority or anything like that, just so I could make sure I got on board and home. I had to plan ahead to make sure I caught the flights so I could get home on time and back to work.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 49):
I simply don't see the need for airline retirees to qualify for concessional flights. It's not disrespectful.

Why not? We earned them........years working holidays, thru crappy weather, standing on the ramp in slush, etc. And don't forget, we're not just talking about Pilots and F/As......there are also ramp agents, cargo agents, gate agents, etc. that also use passes.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 52):

You were promised free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. It's not the airline's fault when people bury their head in the sand.

I know it may not seem like it to you, but when he refers to "free travel", most of us realize that what he is talking about is free "SPACE AVAILABLE" travel as most all pass travel is.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
Quoting CV880 (Reply 53):Retiree Travel doesn't cost the airline a dime
Yes, it does. The only reason guest passes are still around is that the revenue from them offsets some of costs of all non-revenue related travel costs.

Don't talk too loud. Passes for active employees aren't exactly covering their costs, either.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 58):
You're very much entitled. So much so, that you're in denial. You think you earned something years ago, and have been brain washed over the years to the seniority based system. NW "promised" you something years ago. You're twisting the words. You earned free SPACE AVAILABLE travel. Not confirmed, knock whoever I want off the list, because I've worked here for 40 years travel.

See above.........he's referring to "SPACE AVAILABLE" travel.........not confirmed.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
LONGisland89
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:33 am

Quoting bluefly (Reply 23):
The 8 buddy passes can actually be used as 16 oneway passes, and I have a feeling that the 24 passes refers to the number of one ways (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Negative, retirees have 8 one way passes per year.

Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 38):
Your math is wrong. It went from 24 one way passes to 16 one way passes or realistically, from 12 round trip to 8 round trip.

No math involved. Retirees went from 24 to 8 one way passes.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:43 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 10):
As an airline ex-employee, I don't actually see why retirees should get any benfit. *shrug*

Because the revenue to KEEP the airline going CAME from those same retirees .
This has been beat to DEATH!! Congress once asked why employees got such generous flying benefits where the replay by Stephen Wolfe formar UAL CEO) was? If we deny the employees the right to flying benfits?
Then what would be their incentive to make sure YOUR flight is safe or on time??
Speaking for those of us at United and I'm sure American Delta and everybody ELSE.
We ALL maintain every airplane like OUR family is going to fly on that airplane.
Because when SA) and Rheintalflug (Austria)">WE travel?? We Never know on what airplane We're going to fly!!
So we take care of EVERY airplane as if it's life and Death to US.. You're just along for the ride.
Sound harsh? Could be but it's True.
Millions of passenger and BILLIONS of revenue miles have flown on MY signaturre.
I take GREAT pride in that nobody Yet has ever been hurt on an airplane I said was good to go,
Cause if it's NOT?? You're NOT going and I can make SURE of THAT! .
Whether you get there on time? I could care LESS. That you arrive "Safe and Sound"?
That is my "bread and butter". Yeah, I make good money, Matter of fact? Real Good money.
But that would be of no importance, or comfort if any of you EVER got hurt and I could have prevented it.
So the "lousy" retiree flight bennies are My reward for having made it so you can say what you just said.
Stupid as it was to have said it. Those guys bust their BUTTS in the dark of Night, Week ends, Holidays, Cold Rain Snow and Hail. The Lousy flying benefits are litle comfort, OR?? Maybe you'd rather pay those SAME mechanics what you pay at the Caddilac or Mercedes Dealership of $100/Hr Labor rate as a "flat rate" "piecework gig" ,because your fares??? would REALLY get offensive. Then? We could fly full Fare which I already do at a 20% discount. And? rake in FF Miles as well.
 
thegoldenargosy
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:14 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:27 am

Retirees should NOT be before active employees. Active employees are the ones trying to get to & from work. Active employees are dealing with nastier passengers with fewer resources. I'm all for retirees having flight benefits, but they should not be getting on first unless it's a documented family emergency.

No one needs 24 buddy passes a year. Buddy pass riders usually are not educated about how buddy passes work. They waste a lot of agent time. Plus each year it's harder and harder for buddy pass riders to get on. I only gave out 3 in almost four years. 2 were for the same person. The two people I gave them to were a boyfriend and a really close friend, and only after several lectures about the rules. As an airline employee there's nothing more precious that flight benefits.

However I think DL makes some money off of them because they're usually not much less than a revenue ticket domestically. They're only a bargain on international flights. My friend flew to Europe in BusinessElite roundtrip for $350.
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:58 pm

thegolden once again with deep pay cuts you have people retiring way before they wanted to and taking on a 2nd career so those you call retire prob have a job to get to as well. AA's system was fine before but I understand the change and will just have to deal with it but your tone against retires is wrong.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10488
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:07 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 64):
Active employees are the ones trying to get to & from work.

Why do active employees travel, vacation, commute, business?
Why do retired folks travel, vacation, business?

Issues like this always show up when pax loads are high, even when the industry had excess capacity the issue showed up on high travel / value routes.
Mergers have allowed the removal of some excess capacity, captive Regionals have allowed frequencies to remain with lower capacity a/c, so just like their old defined pension plans, airlines now have a defined benefit that they now regard as a millstone around their neck that they can obtain greater revenue from if not for the obligation, so what to do?
Short term, gradually or immediately reduce the benefit to nothing, active employee employees will be happy, continue to be productive since they are the only ones that count. By the time they start considering their value as employees and what it now cost them to travel to the point where they start demanding higher compensation, it will be someone else's problem, the initiators would have already moved on to greener pastures.
Pay me enough money that I can afford to buy tickets like any other pax seems to be the current mentality of the new generation along with chpt.11 and mergers having made these legacy carriers in name only.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1897
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 61):
See above.........he's referring to "SPACE AVAILABLE" travel.........not confirmed.

Correct - space available, but go ahead of active employees because he earned it.

Not going to fly. It's unacceptable to have someone who's not even working there anymore, go ahead of an active employee. It's just nuts. Hence the sense of entitlement, and disrespect to those who are active.
"The low fares airline."
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 67):
Not going to fly. It's unacceptable to have someone who's not even working there anymore, go ahead of an active employee. It's just nuts. Hence the sense of entitlement, and disrespect to those who are active.

So, where did I lose the respect? It would be nice to go ahead of the active employees, but it's not gonna happen, so I won't advocate it.



The thing is, I hear this all the time......."you knew you would be flying at a lesser priority after you retired". That's true.....I did........but, back in '71, who could forecast that flights would be going out 90-100% full after I retired, compared to the times when the airlines considered 50% a good load factor? Could anyone have seen into the future when there would be upgrades at the gate, internet sales, etc. that have fundamentally changed the way people fly and how it affects non-revving? Could you?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 60):
I suspect that 'buddy passes' and certain non-revenue travel benefits for employees and retirees will disappear as too costly and no longer having to offer some of benefits to attract and keep employees.

I suspect that if that happens, there will be a huge outcry against it. I know people that only work there for the travel benefits.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:10 pm

Since no one answered the question about which airlines restricted Non Rev travel to pilots and flight attendants are we safe to assume there were no such airlines
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 61):
Seems to be a generational problem, nowadays.

The older generations always think the younger ones are lazy and/or disrespectful, and the younger generations always think the older ones are just bitter and mean.

Ain't nothing new...

Quoting mayor (Reply 61):
If you can't get back to work on time, maybe you should plan better.

  

Like I said, give none, get none.

Quoting mayor (Reply 61):

Don't talk too loud. Passes for active employees aren't exactly covering their costs, either.

Oh please. What I say here isn't going to cause any airline to suddenly decide the benefits aren't worth it.

Quoting mayor (Reply 68):
That's true.....I did........but, back in '71, who could forecast that flights would be going out 90-100% full after I retired, compared to the times when the airlines considered 50% a good load factor? Could anyone have seen into the future when there would be upgrades at the gate, internet sales, etc. that have fundamentally changed the way people fly and how it affects non-revving? Could you?

Should have planed better.

Oh, wait, that only applies to the younger, active duty crowd. They're the ones that need to sacrifice their jobs so you can go on vacation.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Prost
Posts: 2600
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:00 pm

Active employee here, and the last two times I needed to be somewhere I bought the 'confirmed for less' tickets because I didn't want to take the risk.
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 311
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:26 pm

In todays flying and plane loads I can't see why anyone would even consider giving out a buddy pass. Not worth the headache of getting calls about why they couldnt get on etc. get rid of them all together.
I miss the Red Tail
 
thegoldenargosy
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:14 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:35 pm

Why should retirees get to go first? Can someone explain that?

Quoting mayor (Reply 68):
The thing is, I hear this all the time......."you knew you would be flying at a lesser priority after you retired". That's true.....I did........but, back in '71, who could forecast that flights would be going out 90-100% full after I retired, compared to the times when the airlines considered 50% a good load factor? Could anyone have seen into the future when there would be upgrades at the gate, internet sales, etc. that have fundamentally changed the way people fly and how it affects non-revving? Could you?

I'm sorry you have a pension. I'm sorry you had excellent seniority. I'm sorry you got to work during the best times of the industry. I'm sorry you were actually able to retire from an airline job.

I'm sorry today's employees qualify for food stamps. I'm sorry today's employees work more for less. I'm sorry today's employees are spread thinner than ever. I'm sorry today's employes barely make a livable wage. I'm sorry that today is about outsourcing to minimum wage workers. I'm sorry we work harder than you ever had to with less. I'm sorry that this industry is getting worse every year. I'm sorry that I'll never have a pension.

These are travel PRIVILEGES, they're not a right.

[Edited 2014-06-06 16:36:12]
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 64):
No one needs 24 buddy passes a year. Buddy pass riders usually are not educated about how buddy passes work. They waste a lot of agent time. Plus each year it's harder and harder for buddy pass riders to get on. I only gave out 3 in almost four years. 2 were for the same person. The two people I gave them to were a boyfriend and a really close friend, and only after several lectures about the rules. As an airline employee there's nothing more precious that flight benefits.

However I think DL makes some money off of them because they're usually not much less than a revenue ticket domestically. They're only a bargain on international flights. My friend flew to Europe in BusinessElite roundtrip for $350.

I can't speak for Delta but United charges 10% of the lowest full fare fir every Buddy pass, They also derive $15-20M in revenue from those "buddy passes" The Danger in using them and in giving them out? if Said " BUDDY" gives the CS agents or cabin crews any BS? The employee could EASILY lose their Jobs, As a supervisor I;ve had the displeasure to have to walk more than 1 employee off the property because of family members flying on their passes or friends flying on "BUDDY" passes who couldn't "cut the mustard". That includes inappropriate Dress, drunkenness, arguing or obnoxious behavior
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:44 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73):
I'm sorry you have a pension. I'm sorry you had excellent seniority. I'm sorry you got to work during the best times of the industry. I'm sorry you were actually able to retire from an airline job.

I'm sorry no one seems to be able to answer my question. You're probably also sorry that, because of my age, I was able to hire on before you.........unfortunately, there's not much that you or I can do about that........it is what it is. As far as that's concerned I hear all the crying about how bad they have it, now........try this on for size.....Do the load planning for a full ATL flight, run upstairs and do the cabin service, maybe dump the lavs or help load bags, go back inside and finish the load planning, etc. After the flight leaves, go work the bagroom for the next flight which arrives in a couple of hours or do any GSE work that needs to be done to the vehicles including installing a new starter, putting a new belt on the belt loader, etc. When you're done with that, it's time for the next flight and it starts all over, again. Everyone has it difficult in some way, some more than others. Everyone's situation is different. Before you complain how bad you have it, walk a mile in my shoes. I went 10 years without a pay raise and we never had a profit sharing plan, BUT, we didn't complain about it or think that we needed a union.

[Edited 2014-06-06 21:02:44]
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:13 pm

Mayor the guys went from 2001 thru 2012 without raise infact they took a pay cut about 26% and with their health care premiums that rose every year they took another pay cut for those years as well. I think the guys that are all laid off in ATL would love to do what you did just to have a job.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 74):
Quoting ripcordd (Reply 76):
I think the guys that are all laid off in ATL would love to do what you did just to have a job.

Maybe those of us that retired, early, enabled many of them to keep their jobs? It wasn't done by us, on purpose, but that was the effect.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
User avatar
Tomassjc
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:38 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting usxguy (Reply 50):
Here's how people are cleared at my company:

-Employee & eligibles WITH employee
-Eligibles NOT with employee
-Retirees
-Buddy pass riders
-OAL – ZED
-Jumpseaters
-OAL non-ZED

Same at mine. All are boarded by seniority within the first four classifications. Then first come, first served for the rest.
In addition, we have contractual "Commuter Passes" for our F/As traveling to work. They are at the top of list and trump everybody, and can't be forced to jumpseat.

The best thing to come along at my carrier are "Positive Space Passes". Given to all work groups company wide for good system performance. (which we've enjoyed for the past 6 years or so) We recieve about 4 a year. They are payroll deducted at an ID90 rate and are capacity controlled, We are also enjoy 20 percent off any fare, confirmed travel, via our website. Kayak.com has also become my best friend. After 36 years in the industry, it is pretty much they only way I travel anymore when I need to be somewhere. Space Available travel requires 200 percent more flexability and creativity then ever before. I may not save myself the money, but I save myself the stress.
There's enough of that on the job!

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
Super80DFW
Posts: 868
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:03 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 39):
Spouses dep children and reg companion have been unlimited at AA for a long time,

This is incorrect. Registered companion travel up until January 6th, 2014 came out of your allotted 24 one-way pass pank. It is now unlimited however.

Quoting mayor (Reply 68):
The thing is, I hear this all the time......."you knew you would be flying at a lesser priority after you retired". That's true.....I did........but, back in '71, who could forecast that flights would be going out 90-100% full after I retired, compared to the times when the airlines considered 50% a good load factor? Could anyone have seen into the future when there would be upgrades at the gate, internet sales, etc. that have fundamentally changed the way people fly and how it affects non-revving? Could you?

If you haven't been able to adjust to the changes in the airline industry since the way it was in 1971, then that is your problem, and your problem ONLY. Too bad you haven't been able to cope with full flights.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 70):
Should have planed better.

Oh, wait, that only applies to the younger, active duty crowd. They're the ones that need to sacrifice their jobs so you can go on vacation.

           

Quoting mayor (Reply 75):
I'm sorry no one seems to be able to answer my question. You're probably also sorry that, because of my age, I was able to hire on before you.........unfortunately, there's not much that you or I can do about that........it is what it is. As far as that's concerned I hear all the crying about how bad they have it, now........try this on for size.....Do the load planning for a full ATL flight, run upstairs and do the cabin service, maybe dump the lavs or help load bags, go back inside and finish the load planning, etc. After the flight leaves, go work the bagroom for the next flight which arrives in a couple of hours or do any GSE work that needs to be done to the vehicles including installing a new starter, putting a new belt on the belt loader, etc. When you're done with that, it's time for the next flight and it starts all over, again. Everyone has it difficult in some way, some more than others. Everyone's situation is different. Before you complain how bad you have it, walk a mile in my shoes. I went 10 years without a pay raise and we never had a profit sharing plan, BUT, we didn't complain about it or think that we needed a union.

            Back in my day...
 
user444555
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:40 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 79):
This is incorrect. Registered companion travel up until January 6th, 2014 came out of your allotted 24 one-way pass pank. It is now unlimited however.

That is how I understood it. Domestic Partners were unlimited but Registered Companions came out of the allotment until the new changes were implemented.

I want to thank all the airline employees, past and present, who got me where I needed to go safely. With very few exceptions, most were friendly to me. Thanks!

Quoting longisland89 (Reply 62):
Negative, retirees have 8 one way passes per year.

This seems low to me also. If most airlines give 8 round trips then I agree that sounds more fair.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 79):
Back in my day...

Back in my day.................you were still wearing diapers while we were loading a/c. What's your point?

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 79):
If you haven't been able to adjust to the changes in the airline industry since the way it was in 1971, then that is your problem, and your problem ONLY. Too bad you haven't been able to cope with full flights.

There's a lot of us, active AND retiree that, as you say, haven't been able to adjust to the changes.......although we really have........but that wasn't the argument. The argument was that there have been fundamental changes in how the public travels and that affects pass travel. I will freely admit that I had no idea that going from an S-3 pass to an S-3B would make all that much difference. That and the other things I've mentioned such as last minute upgrades, fuller flights, etc. have really made a difference. I'm getting used to it, but I'm also not travelling as much as I used to, either.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:23 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73):
Why should retirees get to go first? Can someone explain that?

You have missed the point. No one is saying the retirees should get on first. We are just saying that we should be given TWO just TWO passes a year like an active employee so we can take a vacation rather than always go to the end of the line. That is not an unreasonable request. Active employees, especially those going to work should be ahead. I would just like to be able to get to a cruise origination without having to go through cardiac arrest worrying about am I going to get there. TWO a year will not inconvenience anyone.

And lest anyone thing they are free, I pay a yearly pass service charge PLUS I am liable for taxes. For instance, the taxes round trip from ATL to BCN are OVER $600 USD! LHR and FRA are even higher.

[Edited 2014-06-07 15:28:01]
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
silentbob
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:28 am

uote=DTWPurserBoy,reply=82] No one is saying the retirees should get on first. We are just saying that we should be given TWO just TWO passes a year like an active employee so we can take a vacation rather than always go to the end of the line.[/quote]
It sure sounds like you are saying that you should get on first, isn't that exactly what the vacation pass is for?

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 82):
I would just like to be able to get to a cruise origination without having to go through cardiac arrest worrying about am I going to get there. TWO a year will not inconvenience anyone.

If it won't inconvenience anyone, then nobody will be left behind and you would make the flight anyway. If you need the pass to bump someone, then you are actually inconveniencing someone.

I'm not saying your request isn't reasonable, only that that your justification isn't entirely accurate.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3996
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 11):
Uh, Doug was pretty clear in the town hall that D3s don't make AA any money at all. In fact, he considers D3 passes lost revenue. These people never had anything to do with American Airlines yet they get to fly around for pennies because they know an airline employee. I think that's pretty generous...

And it's painful for me as a contract employee to watch D3s misbehaving because I do the same work as a mainline agent and receive no benefits in return.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73):
I'm sorry you have a pension. I'm sorry you had excellent seniority. I'm sorry you got to work during the best times of the industry. I'm sorry you were actually able to retire from an airline job.

I'm sorry today's employees qualify for food stamps. I'm sorry today's employees work more for less. I'm sorry today's employees are spread thinner than ever. I'm sorry today's employes barely make a livable wage. I'm sorry that today is about outsourcing to minimum wage workers. I'm sorry we work harder than you ever had to with less. I'm sorry that this industry is getting worse every year. I'm sorry that I'll never have a pension.

These are travel PRIVILEGES, they're not a right.

               I much prefer AA's system of first-come, first-served within a priority code.
 
undertheradar
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:02 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:33 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):

I picked the best/shortest post to attached my 'thoughts' to.

current staff/retired staff 'travel benefits' are not a 'right'...they are a 'privilege' .... airlines can change as they see fit... and how many industries/companies/jobs offer EX EMPLOYEES continuous 'benefits' for years after they have 'retired'?

speaking from similar experience ( EG..I chose to take a redundancy package after 23yrs as an F/A..and was surprised that the company still gave me 'staff travel benefits' for another 20yrs AFTER leaving...albeit at a lower 'priority'...but hey..I no longer am their employee,.and I'm still getting 'benefits'... win win for me!!

and to all those current employees who whinge and complain that they don't get seats when/where they want (along with their travel buddies) , using 'staff travel'..... I say ... 'suck it up'!!

those are my thoughts.....happy flying everyone  
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting user444555 (Reply 80):
If most airlines give 8 round trips then I agree that sounds more fair.

DL gives us 8 round trip buddy passes......however, if a pass is issued with only one way, that counts as one pass used.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 73):
I'm sorry we work harder than you ever had to with less.

I'm sorry......this was a joke, right?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:44 am

AA gives retires 4 D1 passes so not only can they travel as a employee but above employees not using D1. SUPER80 dig a little into the travel and you see that spouse and dep children have been unlimited and have not come out of your D3 pass allotment at least for the past 20 years on AA mainline it hasn't been that way.
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:02 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 81):
I will freely admit that I had no idea that going from an S-3 pass to an S-3B would make all that much difference.

Exactly why I usually fly UA or HA and collect lots of miles on their cards. At least DL is changing Skypesos to where we will be able to redeem mileage on a one way basis starting in 2015( Go confirmed and return standby).
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15799
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:09 am

Quoting questions (Reply 13):

Quoting vgnatl747 (Reply 12):
but giving away that many buddy passes is lost revenue. there's an opportunity cost for those seats.

Please clarify.

The person now occupying that seat as a non-rev could have potentially been a fare-paying passenger.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 51):
It's not entitlement--I EARNED it. It was what I was PROMISED.

And you're getting what you were promised; free non-revenue travel. No one specifically promised you that you'd always fly ahead of active employees.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 57):
I like how in this scenario eligibles not with the employee travel after all other employees. That's the way it should be at every carrier.

Agreed; AA was an anomaly in allowing retirees to board ahead of active employees.

At my carrier, even though it has benefited my wife when she's traveled alone, spouses and dependents travel at the same priority as the employee, regardless of whether or not the employee is with them. I personally disagree with this policy and feel employees should go first by seniority, then non-accompanied spouses/dependents in the next group but divvied up by the seniority of the employee, then retirees by seniority date.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:35 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 89):
Agreed; AA was an anomaly in allowing retirees to board ahead of active employees.

I understood that UA was also this way before their merger........it was changed after.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 89):

The person now occupying that seat as a non-rev could have potentially been a fare-paying passenger.

They also could have, potentially NOT have flown at all if they didn't have the benefit of the lower buddy pass fares.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15799
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:40 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 90):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 89):

The person now occupying that seat as a non-rev could have potentially been a fare-paying passenger.

They also could have, potentially NOT have flown at all if they didn't have the benefit of the lower buddy pass fares.

This is where there's always internal disagreement at carriers regarding buddy pass programs; airline revenue management departments hate buddy passes because they turn potential customers into non-revs. Marketing departments like them because they have the potential to expose the airline's service to people who may not have ordinarily flown them and perhaps earn them as a fare-paying customer later.

I definitely see both sides, but the former argument carries a bit more weight - and conclusive evidence - to support their side.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:03 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 91):
I definitely see both sides, but the former argument carries a bit more weight - and conclusive evidence - to support their side.

I wonder, though, that with as many problems that DL, for example, has had with buddy passes, that, in the long run, if they're really worth it. I would imagine that other airlines that offer them have run into the same problems.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:34 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 89):
Agreed; AA was an anomaly in allowing retirees to board ahead of active employees.

PM UA Retirees/Actives used to board strictly by seniority until CO management screwed that up.
 
quiet1
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:39 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:46 am

Why not have active and retired employees travel at the same priority? A retiree with 30 years of service would be boarded after an active employee with 35 years, but before an active employee with 25 years. Kind of a "reward based" system based on number of years of service to the company.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15799
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:49 am

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 94):

Why not have active and retired employees travel at the same priority? A retiree with 30 years of service would be boarded after an active employee with 35 years, but before an active employee with 25 years. Kind of a "reward based" system based on number of years of service to the company.


Because:

- retirees, in principle anyway, are more flexible with their travel plans than active employees
- many active employees rely on flight benefits to get to/from their jobs supporting the operation
- most carriers (apparently PMUA and PMAA were anomalies) board active employees ahead of retirees
- carriers use travel privileges as a benefit to offset low starting wages when attracting new talent
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15695
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:22 am

Where I work we have to pay for every seat, including the jumpseat or a spare crew seat. We pay different fares for each class of travel (crew seat or jumpseat is the same as Y), the fares are based upon "zone" (essentially distance) bands. We pay for excess baggage, fuel levies, and airport taxes. We have no buddy passes.

Ground staff generally do everything they can to put paid passengers ahead of staff, for example they will upgrade a Y passenger often ahead of a staff person that had booked and paid for a premium seat. Airport ground staff get different travel benefits to ground staff working at the HQ, and different to active crew.

For us, staff travel is a revenue centre, not a cost centre, i.e. they make money out of staff traveling. I wonder how long this will take to come into play in AA. Some smart accountant would trade a pay rise for a concession like this, imagine the revenue they would generate with 700,000 additional frequent flyers.

It seems to be the trend of how these new MBA types "reward" employees, generate more revenue from them and increase their bonuses.

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 94):
Why not have active and retired employees travel at the same priority?

Because the active person could be going back to work to earn money for the airline.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15799
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:21 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 92):

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 91):
I definitely see both sides, but the former argument carries a bit more weight - and conclusive evidence - to support their side.

I wonder, though, that with as many problems that DL, for example, has had with buddy passes, that, in the long run, if they're really worth it. I would imagine that other airlines that offer them have run into the same problems.

Every carrier - every single one - has some form of problems with them. Usually it's self-policed because employees know poor behavior can result in discipline or discharge and they either scare the crap out of the people they give passes to, or more often than not, they don't and poor behavior by the traveler gets their privileges revoked and/or costs them their employment. And then there are the idiots who sell their passes on Craigslist or eBay; don't even get me started on that.

The biggest problem with these passes is that in most cases, some form of money - a service charge, a percentage of a regular fare, or both - is paid by a guest pass/buddy pass traveler and therefore, in their mind, they're "owed" a seat and are now "a regular passenger" with a "ticket."

None of which is true, of course.

So when they see that steady stream of other non-revs - employees, retirees, etc - get cleared ahead of them and watch the 5th flight out of Maui, or Vegas, or wherever leave without them, they take on "regular passenger" behavior and attitudes with the gate agents and sometimes even revenue customers. Or they call res and yell at them that the flight which was "wide open" a month ago somehow went out full.

Oddly, they never call and yell at the one person who most needs to be yelled at, and that's the person who gave them the damn pass in the first place. That's why on the rare occasion where I've given someone a guest pass on my airline, I read them the riot act like Gunnery Sgt. Hartman from "Full Metal Jacket"..

WHEN YOU FLY MY AIRLINE USING MY BENEFITS, YOU ARE THE LOWEST FORM OF LIFE. YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO ENTER THE AIRPORT, MUCH LESS GET ON AN AIRPLANE. WEEKEND TRAVEL? IF GOD WANTED YOU TO FLY TO MAUI ON A SATURDAY HE WOULD HAVE MIRACLED YOUR ASS OVER THERE. YOU ARE NOT A PERSON; YOU ARE A LOWLIFE DEGENERATE TRAVELING AT THE PLEASURE OF THE AIRLINE AND ARE OWED PRECISELY DICK. YOU WILL TRY FOR THE FIRST FLIGHT OF THE DAY AND CHEERFULLY EMBRACE THE THOUGHT OF SPENDING YOUR ENTIRE DAY AT VARIOUS GATES. YOU WILL BEHAVE AS IF YOU WERE IN CHURCH WITH JESUS HIMSELF WATCHING YOU WHEN TRAVELING AND IF YOU EVEN SO MUCH AS GIVE AN EMPLOYEE OR OTHER PASSENGER A FUNNY LOOK I WILL PERSONALLY RIP OUT YOUR EYES AND SKULLFUCK YOU!

Ok maybe not that extreme, but you get the point. Sadly, most employees don't have that conversation when giving out passes and that's what may eventually lead to them going the way of the dodo.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:07 am

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 76):
Mayor the guys went from 2001 thru 2012 without raise infact they took a pay cut about 26% and with their health care premiums that rose every year they took another pay cut for those years as well. I think the guys that are all laid off in ATL would love to do what you did just to have a job

Ripcord,
the guys in ATL would JUST have to do what I did BEFORE coming to United. I worked all over the country and around the WORLD WHERE I could find a JOB!! I worked Regionals, Charters, Freighters, and even For Evergreen for cryin' out loud. Them gatting laid off might be difficult BUT they're not cutting NEW trail,
TIMCO and AAR are in the southeast and going great guns on Jobs formerly done AT DELTA. (Go Figure)
It's the luck of the Draw. I've worked in Commercial aviation 37years and have been unemployed for 18 days TOTAL,
And?? Most of that time was spent in getting from one job to another,
The problem as an Aircraft Mechanic is NOT finding a JOB! It's finding a Job where you WANT to WORK and LIVE.
To keep My present job I had to sell my house in California and move to the "Burbs" of Chicago .
Nice enough place and Town, IN THE SUMMER!! In the Winter?
It SUCKS!! But? You do what you gotta Do,
BTW,, I hear we're hiring Mechanics in SFO.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: AA Adjusts Flight Benefits For Workers & Retirees

Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:16 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 7):
Retirees argue that the new rules will cost the airline huge sums of money and that it creates incentives for new employees to plot how to plan free trips more than to learn their new jobs. “Shouldn’t they be looking at a cost-benefit analyst on something like this?”

I am a retiree of DL and I have never heard a retiree make that statement.
I think it is OK for present employees to come first but I also think retirees, should receive a very limited number of higher priority passes(2-4)passes .As far as buddy passes go, they should disappear. To much misuse

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos