AA/US Metal Swaps Eff SEP2014

miaami · Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:47 pm

According to AA.com additional metal swaps between AA and US continue.

In September 2014 flyers will see the addition of AA equip on IAH-CLT, and US equip on MIA-IAH/DCA/EWR and BOS.

hufftheweevil · Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:53 pm

Anyone have any clues as to when metal swaps will began at PHL?

drerx7 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:08 pm

IAH - CLT: 6x320, 2x321, 1x738
IAH-MIA: 5x 738, 1x 319 - of note, that 319 operates as a wingtip flight with one of the 738s, either its an early scheduling area or that time warrants the capacity. If it warrants the capacity why not just place a 321 or 757 at that time?

IAH - CLT has a lot of capacity. From my experience on the route US is carrying a hefty amount of Caribbean traffic over CLT from IAH...also UA is getting clobbered seemingly on all routes to other airlines hubs from IAH. ATL, CLT, DFW...smh.

LAXdude1023 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:15 pm

On one of the last earnings calls, it was mentioned that the Airbus 333/332 fleets will have bases in DFW and MIA. Ill be interested to see when that comes around.

drerx7 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:28 pm

I'd imagine that the 330s would do wonders for DFW-S. America and MIA-Europe/S. America

laca773 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
On one of the last earnings calls, it was mentioned that the Airbus 333/332 fleets will have bases in DFW and MIA. Ill be interested to see when that comes around.

Two routes I can think of to see the A330s: MIA-BOG/LIM.

MesaFlyGuy · Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:13 pm

I wonder when we'll start to see some swaps that involved more than just 1 or 2 daily flights. It seems like they're starting off gingerly, before new crew bases can be opened.

compensateme · Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:23 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
IAH-MIA: 5x 738, 1x 319 - of note, that 319 operates as a wingtip flight with one of the 738s, either its an early scheduling area or that time warrants the capacity. If it warrants the capacity why not just place a 321 or 757 at that time?

They're in the process of loading an updated schedule; not a wingtip flight, but rather the US one hasn't been pulled yet.

bobnwa · Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
...also UA is getting clobbered seemingly on all routes to other airlines hubs from IAH. ATL, CLT, DFW...smh.

Could you provide some facts to back up that statement?

AAIL86 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:59 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 8):
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
...also UA is getting clobbered seemingly on all routes to other airlines hubs from IAH. ATL, CLT, DFW...smh.

Could you provide some facts to back up that statement?

I think he means - the vast majority of those flights are on 50 seat ERJs. Just flew IAH-CLT-IAH myself over memorial day, not exactly the most passenger-friendly equipment for that route.

drerx7 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 8):
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
...also UA is getting clobbered seemingly on all routes to other airlines hubs from IAH. ATL, CLT, DFW...smh.

Could you provide some facts to back up that statement?

Nope, sure can't - hence the word 'seemingly'

Just an observation.
But I'm not busy right now so I'll compare the schedules though. Of course this is not a true measure of anything concrete. I checked Sept. 18th - one way
Houston - Dallas
AA: 8xM80 1x 738 HOU-DFW 3xM80 4xER4 Total Seats: 1890
UA: 3xER4 2xCR7 3xE70 1x 739 IAH-DAL 4xER3 2xER4 1xCR2 Total Seats: 969

Houston - Atlanta
UA: 6xER4 3xE75 Total Seats: 528
DL: 6xM88 1x320 1xCR9 HOU-ATL: 4x717 2xM88 Total Seats: 1858

Houston - Charlotte
UA: 5xER4 1x CR7 Total Seats: 316
AA/US: 5x 320, 1x 738, 2x321 Total Seats: 1274

Houston - Miami
UA: 1x739, 2x320 Total Seats: 479
AA/US: 5x738, 1x319 Total Seats: 874

United1 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 10):

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 8):
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
...also UA is getting clobbered seemingly on all routes to other airlines hubs from IAH. ATL, CLT, DFW...smh.

Could you provide some facts to back up that statement?

Nope, sure can't - hence the word 'seemingly

Depends on the market some cities UA is larger and on some not so much. UA is larger to PHL than AA/US is for instance.

TWA772LR · Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:30 pm

US Express will be operating CR9s on LAX-IAH,replacing the Eagle CR7s.

bchandl · Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 5):
Two routes I can think of to see the A330s: MIA-BOG/LIM.

Seems like such a waste of a plane for such a short Int'l route. They could easily deploy some A321's or 737's the would RON at MIA and do a late afternoon departure and a redeye home to MIA.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 12):
US Express will be operating CR9s on LAX-IAH,replacing the Eagle CR7s.

Is there not a mainline option on this route? Thats a long ride in a sardine can. I'd avoid at all costs.

miaami · Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 12):
US Express will be operating CR9s on LAX-IAH,replacing the Eagle CR7s.

Looks like Envoy flying is completely replaced by Mesa and Skywest out of LAX in September.

drerx7 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 13):
Is there not a mainline option on this route? Thats a long ride in a sardine can. I'd avoid at all costs.

Yep..3x daily on CR9...not flying that.

steeler83 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 13):
Is there not a mainline option on this route? Thats a long ride in a sardine can. I'd avoid at all costs.

I don't think I'd mind a CR9 so much. Those seat 76 to 88 people depending on configuration, correct? I'd consider avoiding it if it were one of those dreaded ER4s that UA cannot seem to break its infatuation with soon enough!

I also want to know when the swap is coming to Philly... and PIT...

I'm wondering if PIT will see frequency increases as well as equipment upgrades. Is an A319 to MIA a sure thing?

realsim · Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 14):
Looks like Envoy flying is completely replaced by Mesa and Skywest out of LAX in September.

Not all the flights yet, there will still be a few CR7 flights out of LAX, at least for the moment.

UPNYGuy · Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 17):
I'd consider avoiding it if it were one of those dreaded ER4s that UA cannot seem to break its infatuation with soon enough

UA would send an xr BOS-ANC if it could.

Some of the routes those a/c operate on are just absurd.

MAH4546 · Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:37 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 13):
Quoting laca773 (Reply 5):
Two routes I can think of to see the A330s: MIA-BOG/LIM.

Seems like such a waste of a plane for such a short Int'l route. They could easily deploy some A321's or 737's the would RON at MIA and do a late afternoon departure and a redeye home to MIA.

Not a waste at all - huge local markets with a lot of demand. Both Avianca and LAN compete on MIA-LIM/BOG, and both use widebodies with lie flat seats on the routes.

Quoting bchandl (Reply 13):
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 12):
US Express will be operating CR9s on LAX-IAH,replacing the Eagle CR7s.

Is there not a mainline option on this route? Thats a long ride in a sardine can. I'd avoid at all costs.

No mainline on AA, but I've done it on AA's CRJ-700s which I find very comfortable. And AA's new CRJ-900s are pretty slick and feature MCE:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...en-plane-boasts-new-features.html/

Sadly it's Mesa junk that will be coming to LAX, not these new birds.

kgaiflyer · Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting UPNYGuy (Reply 18):
UA would send an xr BOS-ANC if it could. Some of the routes those a/c operate on are just absurd.

Some are just coming to terms with UA's new weekend IAD and ORD-to-Nassau service done overwater with CR-7s.

I guess they forget two years ago when some off-season IAH-NAS flights were done with E145s

MesaFlyGuy · Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 19):
Sadly it's Mesa junk that will be coming to LAX, not these new birds.

The Mesa planes are not "junk". I've flown them countless times (albeit on much shorter flights than LAX-IAH) and they're not nearly as bad as they seem to be described here. And don't get me wrong by my username, the mesa in my name actually has nothing to do with the airline.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 19):
Not a waste at all - huge local markets with a lot of demand. Both Avianca and LAN compete on MIA-LIM/BOG, and both use widebodies with lie flat seats on the routes.

Plus I'd imagine that there's a good cargo business done on the route that the a330 could handle quite well.

Quoting realsim (Reply 17):

Quoting miaami (Reply 14):
Looks like Envoy flying is completely replaced by Mesa and Skywest out of LAX in September.

Not all the flights yet, there will still be a few CR7 flights out of LAX, at least for the moment.

IIRC the only remaining Envoy route out of LAX will be COS (or is it ASE? It's one of those two)

)

commavia · Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 21):
IIRC the only remaining Envoy route out of LAX will be COS (or is it ASE? It's one of those two)

Envoy does not operate LAX-COS, but will still operate LAX-ASE seasonally (the CR7 turns in ASE to/from DFW, and is crewed by DFW-based crews). However, in addition to seasonal LAX-ASE, Envoy-operated CR7 flights in and out of LAX still appear in the schedule later this year to ABQ, ELP and SLC.

[Edited 2014-06-08 15:09:40]

realsim · Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:14 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 21):
IIRC the only remaining Envoy route out of LAX will be COS (or is it ASE? It's one of those two) )

ASE, as Envoy is the only airline certified to fly there apart from Skywest.

However, last I checked there were still a few other CR7showing on routes ex LAX this fall, like SLC.

bchandl · Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 19):
Not a waste at all - huge local markets with a lot of demand. Both Avianca and LAN compete on MIA-LIM/BOG, and both use widebodies with lie flat seats on the routes.

I guess you're right. I understand MIA has a large local market and afterall those connections are much of the purpose of MIA as a hub....

I guess if the demand is there... I was in ATL for a late night (8-9ish I believe) and my domestic flight got moved to the intl terminal so I was wandering through there, saw the masses piling into DL200 to Johanesburg and just taking my time looking at departures and equipment of each gate and I noticed an A319 sitting at the Bogota gate. Seemed smart to me because if they didn't send it to Bogota it was just gonna sit on the ground all night.

Just seems you could use those planes sitting around for "free", as the route could be served by narrowbodies, not super common for Int'l routes.

Anyways, I'm just thinking aloud, I'm sure AA knows better than the casual av geek on his couch.

MesaFlyGuy · Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 22):

Quoting realsim (Reply 23):

Thanks for the corrections! I was under the impression that those other routes were completely transitioning.

miaami · Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:41 pm

ASE, as Envoy is the only airline certified to fly there apart from Skywest.

However, last I checked there were still a few other CR7showing on routes ex LAX this fall, like SLC.
[/quote]

ASE doesnt show up in RES until December. The Envoy flying that shows up later in the fall schedules will probably be corrected to Mesa/Skywest when they do the schedule updates. It really doesnt make sense to remove Envoy based flying @ LAX in Sept only to add it back later.

MSYtristar · Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:45 pm

It's also nice to see MIA-MSY go up to 5X daily in November...4 on AA metal, 1 on US. That's the most the route has ever seen by one airline, IMO. Benefits of crossfleeting and the ever growing importance of the MIA hub, I presume.

usairways85 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:12 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 19):
Not a waste at all - huge local markets with a lot of demand. Both Avianca and LAN compete on MIA-LIM/BOG, and both use widebodies with lie flat seats on the routes.

The 330 fleet is pretty much close to full utilization. Interested to see where the first wide body metal swaps occur.

drerx7 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:47 am

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 28):
The 330 fleet is pretty much close to full utilization. Interested to see where the first wide body metal swaps occur.

I'd imagine the 767s will migrate to CLT in exchange for the 330s

JoeCanuck · Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:04 am

Sorry...wrong thread.

[Edited 2014-06-08 18:05:52]

laca773 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:20 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 13):
Seems like such a waste of a plane for such a short Int'l route. They could easily deploy some A321's or 737's the would RON at MIA and do a late afternoon departure and a redeye home to MIA.

It's not a waste at all. AA does very well in both markets, and partner LAN has hubs in both locations. Further, AV operates a A330 on one of the rotations now. Prior to that they flew 767/763ERs.
I think we'll see AA move the 763s operated on these two routes to CLT where a it will be a better for some markets versus the A330. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA fine tune a/c utilization according to demand. Some days a market like CLT-FRA-CLT will be operated with a 763 on TuThSaSu, and a A332 on MWF.

I think we can see DFW-FRA/CDG/MAD flown with A330s versus the 763s if the higher demand is there for an increase in capacity. (Any chances of DFW-MAD upgauging to a 77E once they become two class a/c? )

Quoting bchandl (Reply 24):
guess if the demand is there... I was in ATL for a late night (8-9ish I believe) and my domestic flight got moved to the intl terminal so I was wandering through there, saw the masses piling into DL200 to Johanesburg and just taking my time looking at departures and equipment of each gate and I noticed an A319 sitting at the Bogota gate. Seemed smart to me because if they didn't send it to Bogota it was just gonna sit on the ground all night.

DL has operated ATL-BOG with 757/73Ws for the most, with the latter being the most utilized the last couple of years. We'll probably see the A319s interchanged with the 73Ws now that DL is upgrading them to fly longer segments with nicer amenities. It's common for DL to upgauge this route and other northern South America flights, as well as Central America according the demand.

commavia · Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 29):
I'd imagine the 767s will migrate to CLT in exchange for the 330s

I could see opportunities for swapping of 767s and A330s at both CLT and PHL. For example, certain existing A330 markets like PHL-MUC and/or CLT-FRA seem like better fits for reconfigured 767s now post-Star, while I think several existing AA markets (like JFK-BCN and/or MIA-CNF, as examples) are excellent candidates for A330s.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 31):
I think we can see DFW-FRA/CDG/MAD flown with A330s versus the 763s if the higher demand is there for an increase in capacity.

Not sure - at least about FRA and CDG. Both of those seem like places where, at least in summer, the 2-class 777 might actually be a better fit than a 2-class A330.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 31):
(Any chances of DFW-MAD upgauging to a 77E once they become two class a/c? )

DFW-MAD already sees the 777, in 3-class layout, during the summer peak - although I agree the higher density, less premium layout will be far more appropriate for this market.

MAH4546 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:36 am

With the A330-200, people have to remember it is incredibly high density with only 20J seats. That's perfect for Charlotte; not as good for Miami and Dallas.

I actually think AA will reconfigure it to add two more rows of J.

drerx7 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:13 pm

Could you give us your interpretation of the capacity disparity based on the numbers I've posted? Sometimes posts are made to spur discussion and incite education. ..do you think you could enlighten us? Bob?

United1 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:49 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 35):

Could you give us your interpretation of the capacity disparity based on the numbers I've posted? Sometimes posts are made to spur discussion and incite education. ..do you think you could enlighten us? Bob?

Depends on the market out of IAH

PHX rough tie
PHL UA has more capacity than AA
LAX UA flies 13 mainline flights a day vs AAs 3 RJs
DCA AA doesn't serve the market
NYC AA doesn't serve the market
ORD UA has more capacity than AA

The point is that both carriers have strengths and weaknesses in and out of each others hubs. That doesn't mean that UA or AA can't compete it simply means that both airlines are going to go after the traffic that makes them the most amount of money. Part of that is by using the best equipment for the route (ie swapping a US 320 for an AE175 if the market can't support that much capacity) and part of that may be being a bit player in a market (like UA IAH-CLT or AA IAH-LAX)

stxbohn · Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:24 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 10):
Houston - Dallas
AA: 8xM80 1x 738 HOU-DFW 3xM80 4xER4 Total Seats: 1890
UA: 3xER4 2xCR7 3xE70 1x 739 IAH-DAL 4xER3 2xER4 1xCR2 Total Seats: 969

Houston - Atlanta
UA: 6xER4 3xE75 Total Seats: 528
DL: 6xM88 1x320 1xCR9 HOU-ATL: 4x717 2xM88 Total Seats: 1858

Houston - Charlotte
UA: 5xER4 1x CR7 Total Seats: 316
AA/US: 5x 320, 1x 738, 2x321 Total Seats: 1274

Houston - Miami
UA: 1x739, 2x320 Total Seats: 479
AA/US: 5x738, 1x319 Total Seats: 874

I like this analysis. I'd say United is just keeping enough service for the Houston O/D customers like me and some through/connection service for non-US/AA or Delta customers in these other hubs. I'm willing to fly an ERJ at the same price to Charlotte to keep adding to my status at the expense of not flying effectly the same coach seat on a 321.

American thru Miami is heavily Caribbean connection traffic - they fly a lot more places than United. It will be v interesting to see what US metal ends up heading beyond MIA in the Caribs (319s for thinner routes?).

Now I am very impressed that US has so much capacity to Charlotte albeit most of it is connecting traffic. Allows for decent connections to places United can't serve well at all from Houston (GSO, AVL, ILM, MYR) where the ERJs belong

. DFW and DAL are just feeder flights to United here. Not a big difference on a 45 minute flight between a ERJ and a 738 (actually get off plane quicker, no?). ATL is it's own beast - market well covered by DAL/SWA that UA is going to try the E175s on.

cageyjames · Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
With the A330-200, people have to remember it is incredibly high density with only 20J seats. That's perfect for Charlotte; not as good for Miami and Dallas.

Probably depends on the route. While I agree they will need to add more rows of J, you could fly that plane to many destinations in Latin American successfully today. It could never go to Asia like that.

AA767400 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 38):
Probably depends on the route. While I agree they will need to add more rows of J, you could fly that plane to many destinations in Latin American successfully today. It could never go to Asia like that.

Actually - I would bet the 332 is perfectly suited for LAX-PVG, ORD-PVG/PEK. China is not the high F/J paradise many make it out to be.

LAX-GRU, MIA-LIM/BOG/CCS/GYE, and DFW-GIG/LIM/HNL, are all prime for the 332/333, depending on length for each equipment of course.

Just my two cents.

LAXdude1023 · Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 39):
Actually - I would bet the 332 is perfectly suited for LAX-PVG, ORD-PVG/PEK. China is not the high F/J paradise many make it out to be.

Its actually quite the opposite. Most of the F traffic in China is bound for HKG. Mainland China is best suited for a two class cabin.

MesaFlyGuy · Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:08 am

I was just looking to book a flight in September and noticed that PHL-CLT is getting a 737-800 as well.

chepos · Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:20 am

I would also think JFK/MIA-PAP is a great route for the 330 family due all the space in the cargo bin,

usairways85 · Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 38):

Actually - I would bet the 332 is perfectly suited for LAX-PVG, ORD-PVG/PEK. China is not the high F/J paradise many make it out to be.

LAX-GRU, MIA-LIM/BOG/CCS/GYE, and DFW-GIG/LIM/HNL, are all prime for the 332/333, depending on length for each equipment of course.

Just my two cents.

Remember there aren't that many 332 frames and the deep south American routes & Asia routes basically take 2 frames a route.

AA767400 · Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:31 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 39):
Its actually quite the opposite. Most of the F traffic in China is bound for HKG. Mainland China is best suited for a two class cabin.

Huh? How is you agreeing with what I wrote the opposite? I stated China is perfect for the A332. Which, last time I checked, was a 2-class aircraft.

HPRamper · Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:40 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 43):
Huh? How is you agreeing with what I wrote the opposite? I stated China is perfect for the A332. Which, last time I checked, was a 2-class aircraft.

He was reinforcing and adding on to the second sentence quoted. It makes sense if you look at it that way.

USAirALB · Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:55 pm

Does legacy AA have enough gate space for the new flights at CLT?

ckfred · Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting stxbohn (Reply 36):
ATL is it's own beast - market well covered by DAL/SWA that UA is going to try the E175s on.

Back when DFW-ATL was a hub-to-hub route for DL, I seem to recall that DL had nothing but L-1011s and 767s on the route. AA, while flying only narrowbodies, ranging from the F100 to the 757, always kept pace with DL's frequency. If DL added a flight, AA would add a flight, at least on weekdays.

Right now, it's 12 DL flights (MD-88, 738, 739, 752) and 10 AA flights (A319 and MD-80). So, the number of flights and seats is in DL's favor, but it isn't as substantial a difference as compared to say between UA and AA/US on IAH-CLT.

aajfksjubklyn · Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:51 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 21):

No they really are junk, as are Skywest planes out of LAX. Deplorable

MesaFlyGuy · Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:09 am

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 47):

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 21):

No they really are junk, as are Skywest planes out of LAX. Deplorable

Well we're all entitled to our opinions.

Quoting chepos (Reply 41):

I would also think JFK/MIA-PAP is a great route for the 330 family due all the space in the cargo bin,

Would make sense to me. Especially as the aircraft doesn't need to be tied up for two days like it would be for deep South America flights.

cageyjames · Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 47):
No they really are junk, as are Skywest planes out of LAX. Deplorable

I go out of my way not to fly Mesa out of PHX but when I have to I have no problem with the CRJ900. I find the planes clean and staff helpful. It's the CRJ200s that I avoid.

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