Sky West plane has smoke in the bathroom and evacuated on the taxiway. CRJ-900 US-2948

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...st-flight-evacuated-abrk/13338163/

I really hope someone was not sneaking a smoke in the lav.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...8/history/20140729/2130Z/KABQ/KPHX

I am all for the 2nd amendment, but you need to use your brain for thinking and not pushing your own personal agenda. This is also the same guy that brought his son, who was also carrying, last year.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...nix-airport-rifle-arrest/13322887/

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 101): I am all for the 2nd amendment, but you need to use your brain for thinking and not pushing your own personal agenda. This is also the same guy that brought his son, who was also carrying, last year. http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...nix-airport-rifle-arrest/13322887/

I saw that on the news this morning, what a clown. It blows my mind that this guy is some sort of brilliant neurosurgeon too and not your typical schmuck that usually pulls these stunts. C'mon guy, don't you have something better to be doing than walking around the airport looking for a confrontation? Now he's charged with a felony and could possibly lose his job and his medical license. Hope it was worth it.

I'm pro-2A too, but the guy deserves whatever he gets. He's terrifying people in the process of making his political statement. There's no place for that kind of crap in a civilized society, even if it's technically legal by state law. It pisses me off as a responsible gun owner because it makes the rest of us look bad by association, and it makes the state of AZ as a whole look like a joke when we have these 'tards marching around the airport with assault rifles. That reflects well on the rest of us.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 102): I'm pro-2A too, but the guy deserves whatever he gets. He's terrifying people in the process of making his political statement. There's no place for that kind of crap in a civilized society, even if it's technically legal by state law. It pisses me off as a responsible gun owner because it makes the rest of us look bad by association, and it makes the state of AZ as a whole look like a joke when we have these 'tards marching around the airport with assault rifles. That reflects well on the rest of us.

This is exactly the way I feel also. You have the right to carry you gun, but that does not mean that you should have your AR or AK at Target or the Airport. Heck, I have a CCW and was at a Home Depot and did not realize that the pocket I carried my gun in was open and people could see the grip. People would avoid me until I realized what happened and covered it back over.


DANG, Bad month for Arizonan's in Hawai'i
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...olulu_to_Phoenix.html?id=269226971

Woman was found dead on US-693 from HNL to PHX last night. I flew that flight once and it was a very quiet flight as it leaves HNL at 22:15HST and people are so tired that as soon as they reach 10,000 feet most all seats recline and people are asleep.

I was on Maui when the mother and the student from Glendale both got hurt. I was driving when the mother got hurt and was wondering what was going on with all the EMS.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 103): This is exactly the way I feel also. You have the right to carry you gun, but that does not mean that you should have your AR or AK at Target or the Airport. Heck, I have a CCW and was at a Home Depot and did not realize that the pocket I carried my gun in was open and people could see the grip. People would avoid me until I realized what happened and covered it back over.

There's a time and a place for it. Concealed is the way to go. I don't even mind if you carry concealed at the airport. But open carrying an assault rifle around a sensitive area like an airport when you know it's going to terrify people and cause a scene is wrong. These guys don't realize they do the rest of us a disservice when they pull these stunts. Yes, you have rights. No, you don't have to exercise them just because you want attention.

Interestingly, I think the perpetrator lost his job. You can Google his name and a bunch of links related to his employer come up. If you click the links, any page with a reference to him has been taken down and is a dead link. Hope it was worth it.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 103): DANG, Bad month for Arizonan's in Hawai'i http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...26971

Remember this one?

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2007/04/21/news/story11.html

Uggh, redeyes from Hawaii, no thanks. That's why I'm looking forward to this HA flight here in a few months. I rather enjoy living close to the west coast now.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 103):

Quoting 777stl (Reply 104):

Regarding the above discussion, I think there has to be a time and a place for things, and carrying an assault rifle (or any weapon) into a security-sensitive place like an airport is unacceptable. I still don't like it if it's concealed, but at least that way you aren't putting everyone on edge purely to make a ridiculous statement. As long as it stays your business, then I won't know to care. Someone open-carrying forces the police in the terminal to focus all of their attention and energy on that individual, and thereby puts everyone at risk. That could be a diversionary tactic for something else that PD would likely miss with their attention focused on the gun-wielding toolbag.

I am a gun owner (although I pretty much only use it for camping), but the gun laws here in Arizona don't go far enough for my liking. There are just some places where guns don't belong -- just because guns are technically allowed in an airport doesn't mean that anyone in their right freaking mind would do it. Only someone with a screw loose (like someone who oddly happens to be a neuroscientist) would do that. For a state reliant on tourism, a deranged man with an AR-15 meeting you in the terminal doesn't exactly throw up welcome banners. They may have been looking forward to coming to the "Wild West", but that probably isn't quite what they bargained for.

If the state won't pass legislation banning guns in public area of airports (or at the very least open-carry!), then the City of Phoenix should pass an ordinance to do it. Allowing it to continue simply sends the wrong message. Now that someone has been arrested it because of it, there are bound to be one or two imitators in his stead.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 105): then the City of Phoenix should pass an ordinance to do it

They cant. State law prohibits any municipality from enacting their own gun laws.

13-3108. Firearms regulated by state; state preemption; violation; classification; definition
A. Except as provided in subsection G of this section, a political subdivision of this state shall not enact any ordinance, rule or tax relating to the transportation, possession, carrying, sale, transfer, purchase, acquisition, gift, devise, storage, licensing, registration, discharge or use of firearms or ammunition or any firearm or ammunition components or related accessories in this state

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 106): They cant. State law prohibits any municipality from enacting their own gun laws.

Ugh.  

Well I guess nothing will get done about that, then.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 105): Regarding the above discussion, I think there has to be a time and a place for things, and carrying an assault rifle (or any weapon) into a security-sensitive place like an airport is unacceptable.

Two points, one, it wasn't an assault rifle. Two, unless he was somehow in the SIDA, he's not in a security sensitive place, in the least bit. Unless, of course, you are advocating making the entire airport a clown show controlled by TSA.

-DiamondFlyer

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 108):

It was an AR-15, but I think the bigger problem here is the fact that he had the muzzle pointed at two people. When I was growing up a man walked into the business and put his 1911 down on the counter. I asked him to either holster it, unload it or point it at himself. He asked me why and I stated there were three people down range of his muzzle and that was proper etiquette. He took umbridge to the fact I had the gaul to ask him to do anything with his gun.

You have the right to it and to carry it many places, but in the bigger picture it makes all gun owners look like nuts. I have a lot of ex-students that try to get me to buy a AR after I shoot theirs, but I will stick with my 30-30.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 109): It was an AR-15

Your point? Not trying to drag this off topic, but an AR-15, is by definition, not an assault rifle. But yeah, this guy picked a poor time/place to OC a rifle, IMO. Especially if he was already confronted by LE at PHX before.

-DiamondFlyer

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 108): Two points, one, it wasn't an assault rifle.

Ok.. An assault style rifle. Talk about semantics. No, it doesn't have selective fire, but to grandma arriving from Wisconsin, it looks like an M-16 Assault Rifle. I'll make sure to triple check my word usage next time I talk about something completely non-aviation related.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 108): Two, unless he was somehow in the SIDA, he's not in a security sensitive place, in the least bit. Unless, of course, you are advocating making the entire airport a clown show controlled by TSA.

I'm assuming you've never worked in an airport and/or never had any sort of airport security classes or training, because if you had, you'd know this isn't the case. I've done all of the above. Just because the landside areas of an airport are not designated SIDA does NOT mean they aren't security sensitive. The majority of attacks on airports worldwide take place landside. It's a large gathering of people at a sensitive site (airport property), which by definition makes it an increased security risk. Just because a checkpoint, a door, or a fence demarcates a SIDA area from a public area by no means translates into one being security sensitive and the other not. The only difference between the two areas is that one is sterile and the other is public, but from a safety standpoint, more security tends to be focused on the landside portions of an airport rather than airside. Generally your guns protect the fort rather than what's already inside.

The ENTIRE airport property is considered a "controlled area" making vehicles and bags subject to search -- do you think this would be the case if it weren't a sensitive security site? No. Also, it most certainly would not make the entire airport controlled by your TSA "clown show" when their duties are limited to specific capacities and posts throughout the airport. They are not law enforcement officers -- only actual LEOs are -- and LEOs are responsible for the safety and security of the entire airport property, non-SIDA areas and TSA checkpoints included.

To assert that this gentleman wielding his, ahem, semiautomatic AR-15 rifle, was not in the least bit in a security sensitive place is entirely false. There are a slew of federal regulations and code that would suggest otherwise, not to mention basic common sense.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 110):

You are correct, but as atcsundevil stated a majority of people see a gun on the M-16 platform as an assault rifle. With the modifications that can be made it would be be hard to see the difference between a M-4 and a AR-15.

What I am saying is that there are a lot better places and ways to display your 2nd amendment rights. Also this is nit the first time he did this at the airport. First time the PD asked him what he was doing and observed from a distance. He got into trouble this time by his poor weapon management technique.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 111): I'm assuming you've never worked in an airport and/or never had any sort of airport security classes or training, because if you had, you'd know this isn't the case

In which case, you would be wrong.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 111): To assert that this gentleman wielding his, ahem, semiautomatic AR-15 rifle, was not in the least bit in a security sensitive place is entirely false.

Fortunately in this case, the only thing the man was arrested for was disorderly conduct. So, for you to imply that he was in the wrong to bring the gun to the airport, is simply wrong

-DiamondFlyer

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 113): Fortunately in this case, the only thing the man was arrested for was disorderly conduct.

  

And it wasn't for merely possessing the gun (which he had done at least once before without being arrested), it was for allowing it to be pointed at someone.

As far as non-sterile areas of the airport being "security sensitive", they absolutely are in the strict definition of the term. That does not mean that the same regulations apply there that apply in a SIDA area.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 113): Fortunately in this case, the only thing the man was arrested for was disorderly conduct. So, for you to imply that he was in the wrong to bring the gun to the airport, is simply wrong

That's "disorderly conduct with a weapon" which is a felony. It's not garden variety, misdemeanor disorderly conduct. So sure, that felony was the "only thing" he was charged with.

Hopefully this will send a message out to all the other ass clowns that stalking around the airport with your rifle is generally a poor idea. Then again, I think most gun owners are intelligent enough not to go hang out at Sky Harbor in search of a confrontation with law enforcement. It may be legal, but that doesn't make it any more intelligent of a thing to do.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 114): And it wasn't for merely possessing the gun (which he had done at least once before without being arrested), it was for allowing it to be pointed at someone.

Great. As if the TSA experience wasn't enough, I now have to worry about being shot by some white collar dweeb who who mishandles his rifle that he's legally allowed to carry around the airport. Wonderful.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 113): So, for you to imply that he was in the wrong to bring the gun to the airport, is simply wrong

Aahh, the logic of the gun nuts...
It's as if comments such as these were a brilliant ploy by gun control ploy to convince a gun owning person in the center (such as myself) to maybe think that more gun control would be a good idea after all.
Seriously, don't pro-gun folks who defend crap like this realize that their actions and words actually work against the cause of gun rights?

Quoting 4holer (Reply 116): Seriously, don't pro-gun folks who defend crap like this realize that their actions and words actually work against the cause of gun rights?

I'm not defending what he did, by allegedly pointing the weapon at people. I'm defending his LEGAL right to have one there. Don't like the law, change it. But until then, simply bringing that rifle, wasn't illegal, just not smart.

-DiamondFlyer

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 117): I'm not defending what he did, by allegedly pointing the weapon at people. I'm defending his LEGAL right to have one there. Don't like the law, change it. But until then, simply bringing that rifle, wasn't illegal, just not smart.

I agree with that. And while legal, I believe that his doing this can be described as "wrong". But we are getting into non-av of course. It just sucks that these gates are so many peoples' introduction to Arizona, and here is this guy with a gun.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 118): It just sucks that these gates are so many peoples' introduction to Arizona, and here is this guy with a gun.

That was one of my points above. This is an awesome state with great people for the most part, it's a shame that a visitor's first impression would be one of some wackjob marching around the airport with a rifle. I'm a gun nut myself, I'm all for the 2A, but we don't need ordinary citizens open carrying long arms at the airport. It's your right, yeah, whatever, but it's completely unnecessary. Why would you purposely do something that you *know* is either going to piss people off and/or scare them? It's not like active shooter situations are a rare occurrence anymore and an airport seems like a better target than most for inciting terror.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this quote!

Quote: He said anyone who would criticize Steinmetz, or others who choose to arm themselves, should think about what would happen if terrorists struck at at Sky Harbor, or if criminals decided to commit a crime there. "If the Jihad were to start at this airport, you would be very happy he was there," Korwin said.

Yes. A Jihad starting at PHX. I'll be sure to look for the guy toting an assault rifle to save my ass.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 119): his is an awesome state with great people for the most part, it's a shame that a visitor's first impression would be one of some wackjob marching around the airport with a rifle.

+1. Arizona is a great place. Perhaps this will keep some visitors away and the TSA lines won't be ridiculously long.  

Quoting chrisair (Reply 120): +1. Arizona is a great place. Perhaps this will keep some visitors away and the TSA lines won't be ridiculously long.

Agreed, it is a great place, partially due to the gun laws there. While I haven't been out there since early spring, I can't wait to move back.

-DiamondFlyer

Quoting chrisair (Reply 120): Yes. A Jihad starting at PHX

They are probably looking for whoever stole their "haboob".

Quoting chrisair (Reply 120): Yes. A Jihad starting at PHX. I'll be sure to look for the guy toting an assault rifle to save my ass.

I heard the number of atheists in Arizona is starting to climb big time.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 120): +1. Arizona is a great place. Perhaps this will keep some visitors away and the TSA lines won't be ridiculously long.

Only thing not great is ASU/UofA and the reeeaaaaally crappy drivers we have in the Tempe/Mesa area   

I can't wait to get back to Arizona. Japan is sometimes too depressing lol

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 122): They are probably looking for whoever stole their "haboob".

  

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 123): Only thing not great is ASU/UofA and the reeeaaaaally crappy drivers we have in the Tempe/Mesa area

I think Snotsdale has them beat by far.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 124): I think Snotsdale has them beat by far.

I will have to nominate Mesa/AJ area in about two more months. Nothing like driving on US-60 in the left lane behind someone doing 63 with their blinker on.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 125): I will have to nominate Mesa/AJ area in about two more months. Nothing like driving on US-60 in the left lane behind someone doing 63 with their blinker on.

**** the 60.

I live in Gilbert, I avoid that road like the plague.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 123): Only thing not great is ASU/UofA

Watch what you say about UA, buddy. I'll agree with you on ASU though...  

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 122): They are probably looking for whoever stole their "haboob".

I love when these anti-different (aka not-white) people here in Arizona get riled up about that word. 

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 125): I will have to nominate Mesa/AJ area in about two more months. Nothing like driving on US-60 in the left lane behind someone doing 63 with their blinker on.

That's because most people from AJ are strung out on meth. Or they learned to drive a car made by Detroit Electric. BTW, get ready for some fun on the 101 in Scottsdale. I saw today that ADOT is starting a 2.5 year widening project.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 126): **** the 60. I live in Gilbert, I avoid that road like the plague.

SIGH, everyday.......everyday

Quoting chrisair (Reply 127): That's because most people from AJ are strung out on meth. Or they learned to drive a car made by Detroit Electric. BTW, get ready for some fun on the 101 in Scottsdale. I saw today that ADOT is starting a 2.5 year widening project.

Thank God I only have to use the 101 up to the 60.

Back to aviation on this question.

I heard that Luke is doing night ops for the next month until 23:45. Has anyone noticed an uptake in ops at Luke? They also stated that the F-35 would not be in the night ops yet. Would this be because they are still phasing the plane in or that it is not scheduled to be conducing night ops yet? How many F-35's are at Luke now?

When I lived out there I got desensitized from the sound.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 128): I heard that Luke is doing night ops for the next month until 23:45. Has anyone noticed an uptake in ops at Luke? They also stated that the F-35 would not be in the night ops yet. Would this be because they are still phasing the plane in or that it is not scheduled to be conducing night ops yet? How many F-35's are at Luke now?

Unless things have changed, the F-35 is still not permitted to fly at night or in anything other than clear weather anywhere for any model. It has been this way for quite some time. The other USAF F-35 training center at Eglin AFB has had various restrictions on the conditions they are permitted to fly since they aren't fully certified yet, and they've been up and running for close to two years now (I believe they received the first batch). One had a fairly serious incident at Eglin (co-located with VPS airport) about two months ago in which the pilot experienced a cockpit fire on takeoff -- the extent of which I'm not aware of and may not have even been made public. That lead to about a two week-long grounding of the entire fleet. I saw the aircraft in the hangar the day after and it looked like they had quite a bit of repair work to do.

I'm excited there will be so many of them at Luke, but they really need to sort out the issues that have been delaying certification. Unfortunately the F-35 and the F-22 have so many complexities that the issues just aren't fully understood -- the F-22 in particular, because its systems are so interconnected and very much ahead of its time, which is good and bad. It seems like the F-35 is now facing similar issues, but it don't think it'll be quite to the same extent. The F-35 is still a damn good looking aircraft, but not quite as nice as the F-22. I got to play in/around an F-22 at Langley AFB a while back and nearly wet myself, so maybe I'm biased until I get an F-35 to screw around in to see things more objectively!

Hey, I was thinking of making a trip later this month or early next month back to Safford. Since US and ZK continue to defy my requests in creating an LAX or even PHX - SAD route, I am thinking of taking a different route to PHX from Honkers.

Is there any cool new service that I can try? I was thinking via SAN on JL via NRT, then WN. I find CBP much nicer in smaller airports, hopefully like SAN or SEA, because in LAX they are too inquisitive, SFO is ok, but JFK, EWR, and IAD, they are dreadful. I've been made redundant, so spend is an issue.

A JL (788) or US (A332) NRT - PHX service would be smashing....someday, right?

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 129): Unless things have changed, the F-35 is still not permitted to fly at night or in anything other than clear weather anywhere for any model. It has been this way for quite some time. The other USAF F-35 training center at Eglin AFB has had various restrictions on the conditions they are permitted to fly since they aren't fully certified yet, and they've been up and running for close to two years now (I believe they received the first batch). One had a fairly serious incident at Eglin (co-located with VPS airport) about two months ago in which the pilot experienced a cockpit fire on takeoff -- the extent of which I'm not aware of and may not have even been made public. That lead to about a two week-long grounding of the entire fleet. I saw the aircraft in the hangar the day after and it looked like they had quite a bit of repair work to do. I'm excited there will be so many of them at Luke, but they really need to sort out the issues that have been delaying certification. Unfortunately the F-35 and the F-22 have so many complexities that the issues just aren't fully understood -- the F-22 in particular, because its systems are so interconnected and very much ahead of its time, which is good and bad. It seems like the F-35 is now facing similar issues, but it don't think it'll be quite to the same extent. The F-35 is still a damn good looking aircraft, but not quite as nice as the F-22. I got to play in/around an F-22 at Langley AFB a while back and nearly wet myself, so maybe I'm biased until I get an F-35 to screw around in to see things more objectively!

Thanks for the information. I cannot want to go spotting when they roll them out in numbers. Teething with anything is a hard process, but if they are systems that are crossing over each other it is twice as hard. I compare this to looking under a hood of a car. Back 40 years ago you could see the ground when you popped the hood. Now you can see nothing due to the expansion of technology.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 130): A JL (788) or US (A332) NRT - PHX service would be smashing....someday, right?

I would love to see JL in PHX as I think a 788 would be a nice test aircraft, but I doubt that it will happen. It would be nice to see a different carrier come into PHX and thrive. There is not the market and LAX takes most of those flights.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 127): That's because most people from AJ are strung out on meth. Or they learned to drive a car made by Detroit Electric. BTW, get ready for some fun on the 101 in Scottsdale. I saw today that ADOT is starting a 2.5 year widening project.

They don't call it Apache Junkyard for no reason.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 131): There is not the market and LAX takes most of those flights.

Indeed. LAX is only 30 minutes away by air and from there you can go just about anywhere you want to go in Asia. I don't see PHX getting an Asia flight anytime soon. Maybe JL add a 787 service will if the new AA commits to PHX for the longhaul, but I'm still skeptical that even that's going to happen.

Even thought we are the Grand Canyon State the vast majority of tourist access the Canyon from Vegas not PHX. The Asians love the Grand Canyon and travel there by the thousands, but they also want to go to Las Vegas. There are several Asian flights from Vegas.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 131): Teething with anything is a hard process, but if they are systems that are crossing over each other it is twice as hard. I compare this to looking under a hood of a car. Back 40 years ago you could see the ground when you popped the hood. Now you can see nothing due to the expansion of technology.

Exactly, only in the F-35's case, it would be like a car mechanic from 40 years ago popping the hood on a car from today and being quite confused! Obviously that's a little extreme, but you're right, crossing and inter-connecting systems makes for massive complexities that make identifying the source of a problem exceedingly difficult. If only it was as easy as it is with newer cars in which the computer will simply give an error code! This is the issue the F-22 faced a couple of years ago when a number of pilots experienced severe hypoxia in flight -- they were unable to locate a source because everything is linked together in a way unlike any previous aircraft. I'm not sure if they ever really identified the true cause of those incidents, but whatever changes to the systems and precautions made have obviously fixed the issue.

As for LUF getting so many F-35s, there's actually a funny story behind that. Initially, Eglin AFB was intended to be the sole (or at least largest) training base, which included the joint training base for NATO pilots and allies. Eglin is at least 80 years old and, until recently, housed massive numbers of F-15s for decades with no issues. However, when the announcement was made to bring in more than 100 F-35s, NIMBYs appeared out of nowhere to cry foul. Aside from the fact that Eglin has been around for such a long time and that the F-35 is certainly much quieter than the F-15, it was strange for people to complain when the Ft. Walton Beach area is so heavily concentrated with military and former military. A scandal ensued in which the base commander had allegedly written disparaging remarks regarding his opinion of the level of intelligence of the local community (turns out he didn't write that), which only caused more arm waiving from the NIMBYs. Eventually, the USAF decided this was stupid, and said they'll take a bunch of their airplanes and many millions of dollars in funding for new base facilities over to Luke where it might be appreciated. It was only then that the good people of Northwest Florida realized how big of an investment they lost as a result, although I doubt Glendale will complain, and neither will we!

Quoting 777stl (Reply 126): I live in Gilbert, I avoid that road like the plague.

My motto is "No 60 after 5" lol

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 134): As for LUF getting so many F-35s, there's actually a funny story behind that. Initially, Eglin AFB was intended to be the sole (or at least largest) training base, which included the joint training base for NATO pilots and allies. Eglin is at least 80 years old and, until recently, housed massive numbers of F-15s for decades with no issues. However, when the announcement was made to bring in more than 100 F-35s, NIMBYs appeared out of nowhere to cry foul. Aside from the fact that Eglin has been around for such a long time and that the F-35 is certainly much quieter than the F-15, it was strange for people to complain when the Ft. Walton Beach area is so heavily concentrated with military and former military. A scandal ensued in which the base commander had allegedly written disparaging remarks regarding his opinion of the level of intelligence of the local community (turns out he didn't write that), which only caused more arm waiving from the NIMBYs. Eventually, the USAF decided this was stupid, and said they'll take a bunch of their airplanes and many millions of dollars in funding for new base facilities over to Luke where it might be appreciated. It was only then that the good people of Northwest Florida realized how big of an investment they lost as a result, although I doubt Glendale will complain, and neither will we!

I never knew that and as I have heard many F-15's in my life they are LOUD. I can never understand NIMBY as the facilities are often there before them and they knew when they moved to that location that there was an airport/base near by. I lived in Goodyear for about three years and got so use to the sound of the F-16 that I could pick out when the F-15 or F-18 would come in for some reason.

I heard on the news today that Luke will get its fifth F-35 today or tomorrow and (I believe) a total of 139 or 135.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 135): My motto is "No 60 after 5" lol

You need to change that.....it now starts at 3:45 - 4:00. Thank God, I only need to use it from Mill Ave to the 101.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 136): I lived in Goodyear for about three years and got so use to the sound of the F-16 that I could pick out when the F-15 or F-18 would come in for some reason.

My place in Tucson is under the flight path for TUS. I rarely notice the commercial jets coming in but when the ANG F16s based at TUS are up farting around with afterburners lit, the house shakes and I can barely talk over them.

When some F18s or F15s come fly over the west side of town from DMA, I have to stop my phone conversations, mute my phone and wait til they pass. Those things are unbelievably loud.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 134): Initially, Eglin AFB was intended to be the sole (or at least largest) training base, which included the joint training base for NATO pilots and allies. Eglin is at least 80 years old and, until recently, housed massive numbers of F-15s for decades with no issues. However, when the announcement was made to bring in more than 100 F-35s, NIMBYs appeared out of nowhere to cry foul.

I'm no NIMBY by any stretch but when I bought my place in 2004, there were maybe one or two F16s and an occasional A10 that'd fly over a week. Before I moved to PHX in 2013, I counted 100 F18s and F16s that flew over my place in a one week period. These things weren't landing either. They were screaming over at 300+ knots and 1,000 feet up and it wasn't just during the day. They were out flying at 10pm. I can certainly understand why the people near Elgin (even ex-mil) said no way. I was so thankful they sent the F35s to Luke instead of DMA. Let Glendale deal with the noise.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 136): You need to change that.....it now starts at 3:45 - 4:00. Thank God, I only need to use it from Mill Ave to the 101.

Wow i've been away for one year and it's that bad now...... Good thing I lived on Rural Rd, so my commute home from school wasn't bad at all.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 137): My place in Tucson is under the flight path for TUS. I rarely notice the commercial jets coming in but when the ANG F16s based at TUS are up farting around with afterburners lit, the house shakes and I can barely talk over them.

It's interesting because Luke AFB has a nice area cleared out in front of that runway where no houses live.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 137): They were out flying at 10pm. I can certainly understand why the people near Elgin (even ex-mil) said no way. I was so thankful they sent the F35s to Luke instead of DMA. Let Glendale deal with the noise.

The thing is that the entire area surrounding Eglin AFB is almost entirely military or former military residents, and since the F-15s were drawn back and the F-35s put into service, the noise in the area has actually dramatically decreased. That's partially due to the low number of sorties they're operating since the aircraft is heavily restricted and not yet fully certified, but my point is that the area has already been preconditioned to screaming fighter jets at 250kts.

I have family that live about one mile from Hurlburt Field (an Eglin AFB Auxiliary Field and home to USAF Special Operations), and they have C-130s, AC-130s, MC-130s, and just about any other C-130 variant still in service buzzing overhead at 2,000ft or less at literally all hours of the day and night. I think most people given the choice would take the F-35 any day since they tend to get their time in during daylight hours, not to mention the huge investment that would have come to Eglin, but a few NIMBYs new to the area expecting a quiet Florida beach got in the way.

It wouldn't have made sense for DMA to get them though -- I'm not sure they were ever considered, were they? The F-22 and F-35 are replacing the F-15 and F-16 respectively; most of the bases that have received the new types are directly replacing the old types. Eglin went F-15 to F-35, Langley went F-16 to F-22, Luke is now going F-16 to F-35, and so on. DMA didn't have any of those to replace, nor the existing training facilities to build upon. So, I don't think there was any danger of making Tucson any worse than it already is   (sorry, I couldn't resist..)

Well, how about when those military jets stop over at AZA? Their takeoff trajectory is roughly the same as when a G4 plane takes off.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 139): I'm not sure they were ever considered, were they? The F-22 and F-35 are replacing the F-15 and F-16 respectively; most of the bases that have received the new types are directly replacing the old types. Eglin went F-15 to F-35, Langley went F-16 to F-22, Luke is now going F-16 to F-35, and so on.

You're right. DMA wasn't a candidate--the TUS squadron was. It still is (or was, back in late 2013) a finalist for some additional planes, along with Holloman and some place up north.

Quoting atcsundevil,reply=139So, I don't think there was any danger of making Tucson any worse than it already is   (sorry, I couldn't resist..)[/quote] Yeah yeah, wise ass.   [quote=PHX787 (Reply 138): It's interesting because Luke AFB has a nice area cleared out in front of that runway where no houses live.

So did DMA. Unfortunately people started building in a lot of those areas in the 1960s. The difference is Luke is surrounded by farmland, which at some point, will likely get sold to developers. Maybe not in the next five years, but at some point in the next 30 years, there will be a lot more houses out there.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 140):

If you are talking about NIMBY people around "Willy" IWA they still are in the boat of the base being located there since the 1941. There have been ops since then. Moreover, while IWA has military traffic (mainly on the weekend) it is not constant. I live about two miles north of Chandler Municipal and often do not hear them come by from MCAS Yuma.

I grew up in NE Phoenix in the landing patter for Scottsdale. I would take a chair and watch the planes from the flat roof of our house, but as the area grew so did the complaints. People think that once they move to an area it should be converted or changed for their connivence. I grew up with horses also on the property. We had people complain about the smell when they moved in to their house to the extent that they called the police. We built the house in 1977 on horse zoned property. We moved in 1995 just to get away from the complaints. Some people will never be satisfied until what every is "bothering" them is gone.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 142): I grew up in NE Phoenix in the landing patter for Scottsdale. I would take a chair and watch the planes from the flat roof of our house, but as the area grew so did the complaints. People think that once they move to an area it should be converted or changed for their connivence. I grew up with horses also on the property. We had people complain about the smell when they moved in to their house to the extent that they called the police. We built the house in 1977 on horse zoned property. We moved in 1995 just to get away from the complaints. Some people will never be satisfied until what every is "bothering" them is gone.

Nah that's just the idiots who move there...especially from LA....and Scottsdale in a nutshell.....

Quoting chrisair (Reply 141): The difference is Luke is surrounded by farmland, which at some point, will likely get sold to developers. Maybe not in the next five years, but at some point in the next 30 years, there will be a lot more houses out there.

The City of Glendale annexed alot of that land around Luke and has zoned it so that it cannot become a residential area just to protect Luke. Glendale felt that it was more beneficial to the city to have empty land (little or no property tax or sales tax collected) rather then have Luke closed because of the congested area in their safe zone. (One of the few really smart things the Glendale City Council has done over the last 10-15 years)

Quoting chrisair (Reply 141): You're right. DMA wasn't a candidate--the TUS squadron was. It still is (or was, back in late 2013) a finalist for some additional planes, along with Holloman and some place up north.

I assume a replacement for the A-10s? Those have been on the chopping block a number of times, but still manage to hang around because there's no adequate replacement and they're pretty effing badass. If I saw an A-10 coming at me in a war zone, there would be poo. I, for one, hope they hang around for a while. Does DMA also have F-16s? I know they have quite a few C-130s, but I'm honestly not too familiar with the other types housed there.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 140): Well, how about when those military jets stop over at IWA / KIWA), USA - Arizona">AZA? Their takeoff trajectory is roughly the same as when a G4 plane takes off.

I live right under what is the approach path to IWA 95% of the time in San Tan Valley maybe 5 miles from the airport. Honestly, I rarely notice aircraft flying over unless I'm really paying attention or one of the fighters is seriously pushing it. The really loud ones (T-38s and Harriers) definitely make their presence known, but they pretty much stick to daylight hours. I do notice the C-17s and An-124 when they arrive, because they're low, slow, dirty, and pretty loud -- the C-17s from Lewis-McChord almost always arrive between 10pm-12am and there's always three in a row, so those are a bit disruptive, but seeing as they're only here about twice a year, there isn't much of anything to complain about.

All-in-all, it's really no big deal at all even with the military types. What I have found interesting though is that the Airbus equipment seems louder on approach than the MD-80s (I suppose because they have hushkits).

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 145): Does DMA also have F-16s? I know they have quite a few C-130s, but I'm honestly not too familiar with the other types housed there.

The A-10s (from what I heard) aren't going anywhere for a while. It's one hell of an airplane. The 162nd ANG is the squadron that was in the running for the F-35s. They're based at TUS (not DMA), and have a fairly good sized fleet of F-16s.

To be honest, other than the A-10s, I have no clue what's based at DMA. They have everything from helicopters to B-52s to drones fly through there.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 144): The City of Glendale annexed alot of that land around Luke and has zoned it so that it cannot become a residential area just to protect Luke.

A very wise move by the city.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 144): The City of Glendale annexed alot of that land around Luke and has zoned it so that it cannot become a residential area just to protect Luke. Glendale felt that it was more beneficial to the city to have empty land (little or no property tax or sales tax collected) rather then have Luke closed because of the congested area in their safe zone. (One of the few really smart things the Glendale City Council has done over the last 10-15 years)

I also thought that Glendale, Avondale and Goodyear all agreed to put in restrictions in building up to the fence.

Funny side note, my brother does track days with a GT500. The race track that is located next to Luke has a noise restriction on it and if the vehicle cannot meet the noise requirement they are not allowed to race.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 145): I assume a replacement for the A-10s? Those have been on the chopping block a number of times, but still manage to hang around because there's no adequate replacement and they're pretty effing badass. If I saw an A-10 coming at me in a war zone, there would be poo. I, for one, hope they hang around for a while.

USAF is calling for the A-10 to be retired by 2015 and be replaced by F-16 and F-15E's. While the 16 and 15E can drop the weapons, as for close air support, I would prefer an A-10 all day long. While it may not be "Sexy" it does it job and it does it job very well.

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/21...orce-for-defending-a-10-retirement

From another article:
"The service's plan would replace the A-10 mission in Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve units with F-15, F-16 or C-130 missions. Active-duty units at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Arizona, and Moody Air Force Base, Georgia, would not get a replacement mission."

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/loc...ll-blocks-a10-retirement/11060145/

Quoting chrisair (Reply 146): To be honest, other than the A-10s, I have no clue what's based at DMA. They have everything from helicopters to B-52s to drones fly through there.

Several squadrons of A10s, AMARG obviously, and then several rescue squadrons(PJs) as well. That's not an all inclusive list, but those are DMA's primary tenants, I believe. Back in the day, DMA also used to be a missile base with the original Minutemen ballistic missiles. There are a bunch of abandoned missile silos in and around the Tuscon area.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 147): USAF is calling for the A-10 to be retired by 2015 and be replaced by F-16 and F-15E's. While the 16 and 15E can drop the weapons, as for close air support, I would prefer an A-10 all day long. While it may not be "Sexy" it does it job and it does it job very well.

I think that's been staved off for a while. At any rate, if they decided to cancel the program today, it would take a full four years to fully draw down the program.

Hey everyone, I just ran into this article from last year stating LAN could be interested in serving PHX. I personally doubt this would happen, not much traffic heading to either LIM or S.A., from Brookings there is 47 PDEW to S.A.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11915...ings-qatar-airlines-to-philly.html
Global alliance politics will likely result in additional re-positioning by airlines as the merger gains expected approval and begins to take shape. Oneworld CEO Bruce Ashby has said that all three US Airways hubs -- Charlotte, Philadelphia and Phoenix -- present attractive options for various Oneworld members, particularly British Airways, Iberia and LAN. In particular, he said that LAN, which has its busiest hub in Lima, could be interested in serving Phoenix, which offers connections to 65 domestic destinations.