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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 148):
Massive changes to the winter schedule to many long-time core routes out of DEN.

Well, you never know, perhaps this will help drive Frontier closer towards that thing that has always eluded it - profit in Q1.

mariner
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smoot4208
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:50 am

Looks as if DEN-BMI/CID/BFL/IDA/MSO/ILG/GEG ill not operate in JAN/FEB.

Interestingly, of the 4 new DEN adds, SUX appears to be the only one sticking through the winter.

ILG-DEN/MDW/ATL won't operate in the winter either. I think ILG is probably the weakest of the focus cities.

The only route discontinuations are ILG-RSW & DEN-MBJ appears to be gone as it is not loaded through the end of February.
 
freakyrat
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:03 am

QuotingFRNT787 Reply146

"The implication in the original post was that they pocketed 4.5 million meaning profit not revenue. Either way, if they
felt the route would work, they would reintroduce it. The fleet remains extremely tight and clearly they feel that aircraft
time is better used somewhere else. "

They were short of airplanes at that time and still are and were building up at TTN and other places. They also pulled out of Grand Rapids and Rockford much larger markets than SBN. SBN's loads were pretty good from March-September but most of those were probably connecting rather than O/D which cost in terms of revenue. My calculations are that excluding the subsidy money, they still made a small profit out of the market but could do better elsewhere. I talked to the Delta folks at SBN that did the ground handling and they expressed the same feelings. Similar markets Cedar Rapids and Bloomington-Normal show seasonal now and Frontier is making major changes to other Denver core markets for the First Qtr. so maybe they can eke out a profit in the first Qtr.

Anyway the service was very good while it lasted and maybe it will be reintroduced in the future. Frontier knocked United's ORD loads way down and they were probably glad to see you leave. The good thing about this is that Frontier stimulated the market for connections in Denver rather that ORD but carrying 118-135 passengers per flight cuts United out because they would have to fly two E170 flights to handle the traffic on the route or an A319 on a single flight with higher costs and higher fares and they just can't do it. However if United gets just an inkling of Frontier returning to the market they may just throw an E170 in on the route anyway and see what happens.
 
masseybrown
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:11 am

I suspect the winter schedule remains incomplete. We know it doesn't include the sure-to-be-approved Nassau routes.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:12 pm

Well this is interesting. I received a travelocity.com advertisement via email this morning announcing a BNA-PHL fare for $92 round-trip. When you attempt to book the fare it populates F9 to TTN. The TTN effect I suppose.

I also ran across this. Airbus is developing a new retractable seat. Because F9 flies an all bus fleet flying could become more ballpark or movie theater-ish in the not too distant future.

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/t...8%3A%3A7597281%3A%3A19276465%3A%3A

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 151):
ILG-DEN/MDW/ATL won't operate in the winter either. I think ILG is probably the weakest of the focus cities.

With 111 miles separating IAD and ILG I wonder if we are starting to see the slow pull down of ILG.
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n7371f
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:04 am

mariner [/quote]

I'm sure that's the idea.

Quoting mariner (Reply 150):
Well, you never know, perhaps this will help drive Frontier closer towards that thing that has always eluded it - profit in Q1.

mariner

You think? Not sure why else they'd make the changes.
 
n7371f
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:57 am

I can confirm Frontier is getting at least 1 additional 320 (a pilot on a pilot chat room said 2 were coming).

N227FR is in Goodyear undergoing induction from GoAir. Unlike previous leases, this is a nearly new model - MSR 6184.

No idea about the supposed second 320 and where it's coming from.
 
smoot4208
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:15 am

It appears that Frontier has now decided to can TTN-CLE instead of making it seasonal. Service now says "Discontinued after January 6th". The rest of the TTN cities that seasonally end in early January still say "Operates seasonally". The market to Ohio from TTN must not be there. First CMH, now CLE.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:41 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 156):
N227FR is in Goodyear undergoing induction from GoAir. Unlike previous leases, this is a nearly new model - MSR 6184.

It has sharklets too

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 157):
It appears that Frontier has now decided to can TTN-CLE instead of making it seasonal. Service now says "Discontinued after January 6th". The rest of the TTN cities that seasonally end in early January still say "Operates seasonally". The market to Ohio from TTN must not be there. First CMH, now CLE.

I guess it must have, I they've added alot of cities at TTN over the past year, not all of them are likely to work. Being that they've tried close to 20 cities and only have discontinued 3 of them, I'd say things are working out.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:51 am

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 157):
It appears that Frontier has now decided to can TTN-CLE instead of making it seasonal. Service now says "Discontinued after January 6th". The rest of the TTN cities that seasonally end in early January still say "Operates seasonally". The market to Ohio from TTN must not be there. First CMH, now CLE.


Frontier is still bound by certain fleet decisions made by Republic during the fleet rationalisation plan, so that even though a new aircraft is coming in, at least one more A319 due to leave by the end of the year.

There is also a rumor that they will start installing the new seats in 1Q, which would mean aircraft coming out of the fleet for a while.

The fleet is still very constrained and I guess it will be another six months before they have the fleet sorted out.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 156):
N227FR is in Goodyear undergoing induction from GoAir. Unlike previous leases, this is a nearly new model - MSR 6184.

As far as I can work out, it was intended for but perhaps never delivered to GoAir? As in the photos in this link, the livery was never completely finished:

http://xfw-spotter.blogspot.de/search/label/6184

The suggestion is that Go was offered an earlier delivery and so MSN6184 became available.

mariner

[Edited 2014-07-27 21:24:13]
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jeepyjeep
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:33 pm

DISREGARD! FALSE ALARM!  Smile

Was going to say that TTN-DFW is bookable 2/week starting in January, but I just tried to actually go through the booking process and it didn't work.

[Edited 2014-07-28 09:40:39]
 
lakeeffect
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 157):
It appears that Frontier has now decided to can TTN-CLE instead of making it seasonal. Service now says "Discontinued after January 6th". The rest of the TTN cities that seasonally end in early January still say "Operates seasonally". The market to Ohio from TTN must not be there. First CMH, now CLE.

It may be a case of demand at a certain fare. When I flew CLE-TTN on a not so special Thursday afternoon the flight was 95% full, the return leg was 100% full. F9 is certainly capable of filling planes on this route, but the fares to do that are rock bottom. It seems the fares are consistently $78 round trip. CLE is also the 2nd shortest route from TTN (only 3 miles longer than RDU) so any increase in fare on this route sends the low yielding PAX back to the car with empty seats on the plane.

CLE-TTN was also announced well before the United de-hub at CLE and the subsequent build up of F9's focus city at CLE. F9's strategy for CLE appears to be much different now than when this route was first started. With F9's tight aircraft utilization, I can think of a dozen more routes from CLE or TTN that are more deserving of service (and could be much more profitable) than between that city pair.

I would also imagine once this route is discontinued all CLE service on F9 will be on the A320?
 
masseybrown
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:21 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 161):
I can think of a dozen more routes from CLE or TTN that are more deserving of service (and could be much more profitable) than between that city pair.

So can I.  

Wild speculation: Discontinuing CLE-TTN may be an indicator that Frontier will establish a pilot domicile at IAD rather than either CLE or TTN.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 157):
It appears that Frontier has now decided to can TTN-CLE instead of making it seasonal.

After the addition of CLE-LGA, this is hardly surprising. WN's surprising decision to keep CAK-LGA probably didn't help either.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:12 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 161):
It may be a case of demand at a certain fare. When I flew CLE-TTN on a not so special Thursday afternoon the flight was 95% full, the return leg was 100% full. F9 is certainly capable of filling planes on this route, but the fares to do that are rock bottom


  

There is also a considerable change in attitude at Frontier - Indigo/Franke, I assume.

They are now addressing one of Frontier's most enduring problems - even in the glory days, no matter how much money the airline made in summer, it has always found it tough (as in almost impossible) to make money in deep winter.

Partly, this is because of geography - from DEN it can't participate in the lucrative north/south east coast market, Florida and the snowbirds. There is a ski market at DEN, obviously, but it pales in comparison.

This is why CEO Siegel was so determined to find "a TTN." It looked as if it might be ABE for a minute, until TTN asserted itself.

The theory is simple - fly where people want to go but only when they want to go there.

This means that the route map has become increasingly seasonal and with frequencies adjusted within the seasons, so that even a successful route like TTN-DTW drops to 2 x weekly in January while TTN-ATL stays at 6 x weekly.

How many of Frontier's highly discretionary market want to go to DTW in January? Nothing against DTW but why fly from cold to colder unless you have to? As you point out, Frontier can probably get people on the planes - but at junk fares, so what's the point?

It applies across the board, to places like GEG - Spokane - great for much of the year but misery in deep winter, and why fly it if people don't want to go? Conversely, it is highly unlikely that Frontier would fly DEN-PSP in August.

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GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:34 pm

Well this is good. F9 didn't make the Top 10 list of airlines who charge the most ancillary fees. I suppose because they offer their customers a choice. http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/t...9%3A%3A7597281%3A%3A19297859%3A%3A
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:37 am

With Spirit starting ORD-ATL, how does Frontier compete? Is it a ULCC fare war with $9 fares until someone drops it, do they ignore them and see if both can operate the route, or do they cut and run and cede that route to NK? With the fleet constrained, could they use the ORD-ATL someplace better, or would that signal to NK, just come take our routes we'll back down?
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:50 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 166):

With Spirit starting ORD-ATL, how does Frontier compete? Is it a ULCC fare war with $9 fares until someone drops it, do they ignore them and see if both can operate the route, or do they cut and run and cede that route to NK?

Much as Frontier and Spirit compete on several routes out of DEN (DFW/DTW/FLL/IAH/LAS, etc) and will compete on DEN-ORD, I guess.

ATL-ORD is a huge market and we're only talking a couple of flights.

mariner

[Edited 2014-07-30 18:52:16]
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:59 pm

Frontier has applied for MKE-PVR:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2014-0132-0001

Initially, 2 x weekly A320. Since Frontier is already booked to fly MKE-PVR 2 x weekly for Apple Vacations, I assume it's all part and parcel of that.

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Frontier14
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:01 am

With Frontier applying for the MKE-PVR service made me wonder, does anyone recall if F9 is still on the hook for the pre-Indigo gates at Mitchell Field?

Frontier 14
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:03 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 166):
With Spirit starting ORD-ATL, how does Frontier compete?

I think part of the answer is to look at what the three legacies are charging. The lowest ATL-ORD ares I saw three weeks out were just over $300.00; $412.00 two weeks out and $586.00 inside a seven day window. WN is charging $325 for ATL-MDW within a seven day window. NK is not for everyone. Perhaps that mindset will drive some over to F9
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:12 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 170):
NK is not for everyone. Perhaps that mindset will drive some over to F9

That goes away If F9 switches to 28 inch seat pitch and removes STRETCH seating. As much as I hope that is not the case, I have an eerie feeling that it might very well happen in the next 12 months.
 
n7371f
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:43 am

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 169):
With Frontier applying for the MKE-PVR service made me wonder, does anyone recall if F9 is still on the hook for the pre-Indigo gates at Mitchell Field?

Frontier 14

I believe Frontier is on the hook for the leases. Not quite as sure as the hangar lease but I also believe that's F9's responsibility but don't quote me on that. I do know the F9 keeps its reservations center there so at a minimum it's a sub-lease for that.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:04 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 172):

I believe your right they have a reservation center in both DEN and MKE
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:26 pm

Not from a dickie bird; but rather a LA (Lower Alabama) Grouse (An ex-colleague from Alaska now in MOB) I'm hearing some chirps about MOB-CLE. I see no non-stop service in this city pair. Airbus was reported to be building a maintenance or manufacturing facility near the deep water Port of Mobile.

Wasn't there an an old CO hanger in CLE that F9 was attempting to acquire?
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:38 pm

MOB-CLE? What's the draw for that market? Yes Airbus is building a new plant in MOB but overall traffic to/from MOB is tiny. I honestly think you'd see MOB-DEN before CLE but either of those have to be considered long shots. PNS is a stronger air travel market and it has, at least for the time being, WN service.
 
masseybrown
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 174):
MOB-CLE

I think we'd see CLE-MSY first.

For now, however, Frontier's plate may be full in CLE. If Apple Vacations is right (5 CLE-CUN and 2 CLE-PUJ flights per week in February) CLE will be running about 9.5 dailies, which may represent a near-term limit on station utilization/expense. To go over that would require another gate full time and probably counter space, a commitment they don't have to be in any hurry to incur - there's no waiting line.
 
yx302
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 169):
With Frontier applying for the MKE-PVR service made me wonder, does anyone recall if F9 is still on the hook for the pre-Indigo gates at Mitchell Field?

Yes they still are on the hook. They have 4 gates available all inline and 5 more on the same terminal but on the opposite end. During the gate swap with delta they are now also responsible for the gates delta left on the E terminal.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:26 am

Daniel Shurz of Frontier says 'This town (Atlanta) IS big enough for the two of us'
http://wabe.org/post/low-cost-carriers-see-atlanta-new-frontier
 
YXwatcherMKE
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:53 am

F9 will be on the hook as you put it until 2020 at least possibly 2025, (I will check on that) That is how long that Midwest Airlines had signed a lease with MKE to have the "D" Concourse extension built. They had signed a contract to control almost every gate on the D concourse which was a total of 29 gates. After the pull down of the Hub they did a gate swap for 6 Gates plus the FF lounge with DL so they now control the six empty gates on the E concourse. US was able to get 2 gates from F9 that they were not using and I understand that AA is trying to 3 gates from F9 as well to merge their operations at MKE to one concourse. Because they have 2 gates on the C concourse and the 2 US on the D concourse and they want to have 5 possibly 6 gates in one location. F9 is also on the hook for one of the 2 hangers at MKE.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:05 am

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 179):
F9 will be on the hook as you put it until 2020 at least possibly 2025, (I will check on that) That is how long that Midwest Airlines had signed a lease with MKE to have the "D" Concourse extension built. They had signed a contract to control almost every gate on the D concourse which was a total of 29 gates. After the pull down of the Hub they did a gate swap for 6 Gates plus the FF lounge with DL so they now control the six empty gates on the E concourse. US was able to get 2 gates from F9 that they were not using and I understand that AA is trying to 3 gates from F9 as well to merge their operations at MKE to one concourse. Because they have 2 gates on the C concourse and the 2 US on the D concourse and they want to have 5 possibly 6 gates in one location. F9 is also on the hook for one of the 2 hangers at MKE.

Just to clarify - is it Frontier on the hook, or is it Republic?

Republic and Midwest merged and I thought the hangar, at least, was part of Midwest's baggage, thus becoming Republic's issue.

Similarly, Republic acquired the DCA/LGA slots when it merged with Midwest - and they stayed with Republic, they were never owned by Frontier.

Frontier and Midwest did not merge (thus Frontier didn't get the DCA/LGA slots) , so were those gate (and hangar) obligations transferred from Republic (Midwest) to Frontier at some stage?

And did all or any of those obligations transfer from Republic to Indigo?

mariner

[Edited 2014-08-01 23:21:44]
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:02 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 175):
MOB-CLE? What's the draw for that market?

In all fairness it has been quite a few years since I was in MOB. MOB was a nice north gulf coast beach town. MOB is 65 miles as a crow flies from PNS. MOB and PNS also split the distance to Gulf Shores, Alabama which is a significant music venue. And perhaps more importantly WN is not in MOB. Frankly I'd rather vacation on the North gulf coast than some places in Florida.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 181):
In all fairness it has been quite a few years since I was in MOB. MOB was a nice north gulf coast beach town. MOB is 65 miles as a crow flies from PNS. MOB and PNS also split the distance to Gulf Shores, Alabama which is a significant music venue. And perhaps more importantly WN is not in MOB. Frankly I'd rather vacation on the North gulf coast than some places in Florida.

Downtown Mobile is actually pretty nice...one of the nicer downtown's in the south...plenty of little sidewalk cafes and shops. But there's really not much going on there from a tourist perspective. They don't even have a cruise ship anymore since Carnival left town. The beaches about 45min to the south of the city on Dauphin Island are nice for a day trip but if you want the nice clear emerald water, you need to head to Pensacola Beach (or further on down to Destin, etc.)...which as you said is not that far away. Mobile has a decent population base but people there use MSY, GPT, and PNS mostly for their air travel needs. To put it in perspective, the top O&D market from MOB is IAH...and that's only 94 pax/day roundtrip combined. CLE was 10, and DEN was 40.
 
sdoyon
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 178):
Daniel Shurz of Frontier says 'This town (Atlanta) IS big enough for the two of us'

It's interesting to note that currently, they only overlap on one route (ORD), and that overlap only happens 3 times a week (at least in November). For the week of 11/9-11/15:

NK:
ORD: 1xD
DFW: 2xD
DTW: 1xD
FLL: 3xD
IAH: 1xD
5 cities, 56 flights weekly

F9:
ORD: 3xW (Su, T, R)
CLE: 4xW (M, W, F, S)
DEN: 2xD
TTN: 1xD
IAD: 6xW (xM)
ILG: 3xW (Su, T, R)
6 cities, 37 flights weekly

I'm sure they'll be able to coexist, and together they'll start to fill the FL void left by WN.
 
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knope2001
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 180):
Just to clarify - is it Frontier on the hook, or is it Republic?

I'm told the in-terminal obligations went with Frontier but I don't know about the hangar. I don't have anything in writing to substantiate that, however.

Everything I've heard, however, is that the terminal least obligations only run into 2015...not sure how far into 2015 but not beyond that point. That has been cited print more than a time or two.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee...airport-no-longer-considering.html

Since the swap with Delta, Frontier's gate holdings are a somewhat motley mix:

Used by Frontier, mobile jetways
D39, D41

Unused Frontier D gates
D51, D53, D42, D30 mobile jetways
D34, D36, D38 fixed jetways (likely cannot use RJs)
D52, D55 were ground boarding but could accommodate jetway boarding
D27, D28, D29 ground-level boarding gates only

E gates swapped from Delta, unused
D64, D65, D66, D67, D68, D69 mobile jetways

Whoever does hold control of those gates would need to cooperate with other airlines if any swap or sublease happens. But sometime next year that should be off the table.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:48 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 184):
I'm told the in-terminal obligations went with Frontier but I don't know about the hangar. I don't have anything in writing to substantiate that, however.

I don't know the fine print of Indigo's deal with Republic, but I'd be intrigued if Bill Franke let Frontier take on a new hangar lease at DEN, as it has, if Frontier was already paying a hangar lease at MKE.

mariner
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Frontier14
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 185):
I don't know the fine print of Indigo's deal with Republic, but I'd be intrigued if Bill Franke let Frontier take on a new hangar lease at DEN, as it has, if Frontier was already paying a hangar lease at MKE.

  

Frontier 14
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 185):
I don't know the fine print of Indigo's deal with Republic, but I'd be intrigued if Bill Franke let Frontier take on a new hangar lease at DEN, as it has, if Frontier was already paying a hangar lease at MKE.

This article, dated April 21, 2014 - after separation - says both MKE hangars are "operated" by Republic and are for sale:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/wan...equired-b99249228z1-255955781.html

"Want to buy a hangar? Deep pockets required

The Milwaukee properties, which are operated by Indianapolis-based Republic Airways Holdings Inc., are a 97,000-square-foot building at 555 W. Air Cargo Way, with a list price of $7.5 million, and a 72,000-square-foot building at 301 E. Layton Ave., listed at $6 million."


It would seem very odd if they went with Frontier to Indigo, since neither are mentioned.

mariner

[Edited 2014-08-02 15:00:42]
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YXwatcherMKE
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 184):
Everything I've heard, however, is that the terminal least obligations only run into 2015...not sure how far into 2015 but not beyond that point. That has been cited print more than a time or two.

Quoting the Mitchell International Airport History page from the website...
"With increasing air traffic and growing airline service, Mitchell International needed to expand its gate area. On December 14, 1990, a 16-gate addition to Concourse D opened. The additional 16 gates boost Mitchell International's total number of gates to 42"
It does not state it in the web page but from what I was told the lease was a 30 year lease with Midwest, as to which company is "on the hook", Republic or Frontier I do not know.
And as for the Hanger I was I was going to quote the same article as mariner did.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:02 am

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 188):
Quoting the Mitchell International Airport History page from the website...
"With increasing air traffic and growing airline service, Mitchell International needed to expand its gate area. On December 14, 1990, a 16-gate addition to Concourse D opened. The additional 16 gates boost Mitchell International's total number of gates to 42"

Wow, if it wasn't for the problem of lack of aircraft, I would think they would be flying to several more destinations from MKE.
 
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knope2001
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 188):
Quoting the Mitchell International Airport History page from the website...
"With increasing air traffic and growing airline service, Mitchell International needed to expand its gate area. On December 14, 1990, a 16-gate addition to Concourse D opened. The additional 16 gates boost Mitchell International's total number of gates to 42"
It does not state it in the web page but from what I was told the lease was a 30 year lease with Midwest, as to which company is "on the hook", Republic or Frontier I do not know.

Page 60 of the this SEC filing from Midwest says their 19-gate lease obligation, including operations and baggage handling space, expires in 2010. A 2015 expiration suggests a five-year renewal was signed. Or course this does not tell us who is on the hook for it at the moment.

http://google.brand.edgar-online.com...0-246854&SessionID=L5aG6SCK0tksUu7

As for the hangar at MKE, the Republic SEC document below lists it as a Republic facility as of 12/31/13

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...0115915414000020/rjet12311310k.htm

The table doesn't past well into this format, but these are the hangars listed in square feet:

232,100 Columbus
194,300 Milwaukee
133,300 Pittsburgh
110,500 Indianapolis
81,300 Kansas City
70,000 Louisville
25,000 Honolulu

In that same document it speaks of Republic having sold Frontier during the 4th quarter, and with these hangars listed specifically as of 12/31/13 it suggests that they are still a Republic obligation and did not go with Frontier.

[Edited 2014-08-02 21:20:13]
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:14 am

I'm not sure if this has been addressed before, but does anyone know if F9 is still planning on repainting their fleet in the slightly altered FlyFrontier.com livery? It seems like its been a while since they rolled it out and I thought that was going to be the "new" livery, but from what I can see only four Airbus have the new titles.

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Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:06 am

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 191):

I don't think that they are actively repainting aircraft but only for newly acquired aircraft and those already scheduled for repainting. Frankly I prefer the old livery so its great that they are taking their time.
 
n7371f
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 184):
D52, D55 were ground boarding but could accommodate jetway boarding
D27, D28, D29 ground-level boarding gates only

Not certain those are just per gate leases. Those ramps could accept several more aircraft than boarding doors based on 50-seaters. Possible lease is for parking spaces and gates for the ground level?

I was there Sunday and noticed they are repairing the escalator down to the ground D55 area. Why? Those will never be used again.

Quoting mariner (Reply 185):
I don't know the fine print of Indigo's deal with Republic, but I'd be intrigued if Bill Franke let
Frontier take on a new hangar lease at DEN, as it has, if Frontier was already paying a hangar lease at MKE.

I'm all but certain the hangar lease at MKE is Republic's. But doesn't Frontier sub-lease office space for the reservations center there?

Quoting mariner (Reply 187):
and a 72,000-square-foot building at 301 E. Layton Ave., listed at $6 million."

Drove by there Sunday -- hasn't been used in years and you can tell: high grass, weeds, etc...

I don't believe Frontier does any maintenance in MKE any more. Unless it's at gate.

Quoting mariner (Reply 187):
The Milwaukee properties, which are operated by Indianapolis-based Republic Airways Holdings Inc., are a 97,000-square-foot building at 555 W. Air Cargo Way, with a list price of $7.5 million, and a 72,000-square-foot building at 301 E. Layton Ave., listed at $6 million."

It would seem very odd if they went with Frontier to Indigo, since neither are mentioned.
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 189):
Wow, if it wasn't for the problem of lack of aircraft, I would think they would be flying to several more destinations from MKE.

I doubt it. Republic gave away the valuable frequent flier base in the mileage swap deal with Delta. It's Delta and Southwest's market now. Although with all the gates, you can wonder...but as others have posted with the Delta gate deal, Frontier's gates are all over the place.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 190):
Page 60 of the this SEC filing from Midwest says their 19-gate lease obligation, including operations and baggage handling space, expires in 2010. A 2015 expiration suggests a five-year renewal was signed. Or course this does not tell us who is on the hook for it at the moment.

It was odd walking through Mitchell the other day and seeing the massive Frontier ticket counter - something like 20 to 25 positions. And Frontier signage is still all over the gates on D that are not used by Delta or US.

And the Delta SkyClub is basically unchanged from the Midwest / Frontier days except for a few cosmetic changes.

It was eery using the walking escalator on the ground level to the Delta gates on D. Mitchell really did a nice job with that area for the CRJ and ERJ operations but those will never be used again.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:27 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 189):
Wow, if it wasn't for the problem of lack of aircraft, I would think they would be flying to several more destinations from MKE.

I hope it's more than lack of aircraft.

The expansion at MKE brought Frontier to its knees last time, I would't want to see that happen again. One or three routes, maybe, but not much more than that.


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YXwatcherMKE
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:27 am

I will have to do some digging of old Media reports that were reported shortly after the sale of F9 from Republic to Indigo that they interview one of the VP's of Indigo that asked the question of what if any the management had for MKE, and I want to say that in their opinion that MKE is undeserved and that they are looking at options for future growth at MKE. But first we need to get more a/c before we can go forward the any growth. or something like that. As I said above it was a interview I saw on TV here in town after the sale. And of course he could have made those comments to make the people of MKE happy. Once I find the interview I will post it. And I'm still waiting on a answer on the question of how long F9 is on the hook for the gates on D & E concourses.
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mke717spotter
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:35 am

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 195):
I will have to do some digging of old Media reports that were reported shortly after the sale of F9 from Republic to Indigo that they interview one of the VP's of Indigo that asked the question of what if any the management had for MKE, and I want to say that in their opinion that MKE is undeserved and that they are looking at options for future growth at MKE.

Personally I think it was just standard talk for an airline executive, trying to get people's hopes up, get them excited, etc. The CEO of WN said the same sort of stuff about MKE not too long ago too and nothing has changed.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee...ier-buyer-to-take-a-hard-look.html

"The presumed new owner of Frontier Airlines plans to more than double the size of the airline and will “take a hard look” at expanding service in cities such as Milwaukee, The Business Journal has learned.

“Milwaukee is one of those communities, not unlike several of like size, that has seen some loss of service from airlines in general over the last several years,” Bill Franke, managing partner of Indigo Partners LLC, said in a phone interview with The Business Journal on Tuesday. “It’s our intention to take a hard look at all those communities as we try to establish a network for the airline.”
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:39 pm

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 196):
Personally I think it was just standard talk for an airline executive, trying to get people's hopes up, get them excited, etc.

Perhaps the Chamber of Commerce reply.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
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enilria
Posts: 10182
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RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 196):
Personally I think it was just standard talk for an airline executive, trying to get people's hopes up, get them excited, etc. The CEO of WN said the same sort of stuff about MKE not too long ago too and nothing has changed.

Don't believe anything any airline execs say until it's in my OAG thread and for sale!

Quoting mariner (Reply 194):
The expansion at MKE brought Frontier to its knees last time, I would't want to see that happen again. One or three routes, maybe, but not much more than that.

I agree with Mariner in that I don' think MKE is a useful focus city for a ULCC. The ULCC focus city model is really only proven in large cities and leisure destinations. You could argue that TTN is to NYC/PHL as MKE is to CHI, but F9 is already at both ORD/MDW so there is no more reason to have a focus city in MKE than there is in RFD.

I think it's conceivable that the ULCC model will work from MKE sized cities (where MKE is the focus city instead of the spoke) in the future, but I don't think that is low hanging fruit at this point. There are better opportunities first. At this point MKE will have to be happy with being a spoke to a Florida or Mexican leisure focus city.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5526
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 198):
I agree with Mariner in that I don' think MKE is a useful focus city for a ULCC.

OTOH, Frontier needs to improve station utilization at existing points. All those one-destination airports have to be hard on the bottom line.

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