Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jeepyjeep
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:13 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:17 pm

Well, looks like they've finally done it.
Just received an e-mail that Summit and Ascent are being retired in favor of "Frontier Elite," which includes fewer benefits than what the current Summit tier offers.

Here's what Frontier Elite will offer:

• Priority check-in, security & boarding
• STRETCH seating at check-in
• Complimentary carry-on bag
• Free Advanced Seat Assignment
• Waived Reservations Ticketing fee
• Free Same Day Standby
• Waived Same Day Confirmed fee
• Last Seat Availability Award
• Dedicated Customer Service Number
• Waived Unaccompanied Minor fee*

Personally, I understand that the current EarlyReturns program doesn't fit into a ULCC model, though I am disappointed as I liked the perks offered to me as a Summit member. I still like Frontier and will still fly them DEN-MDT but I'll probably not be as loyal in the future. I get it though; this stuff doesn't fit in with their new business model.

I flew out to SNA (and back to DEN) for work yesterday and noticed a few other minor details:

• they now have disposable coffee cups that have the Boyer's Coffee logo as well as the FLYFRONTIER.COM logo! Prior to my flight yesterday, coffee had been served in plain styrofoam cups that sometimes would have Boyer's Coffee stickers on them, but sometimes not.
• also, on each flight, both crews specifically said they were a "Denver-based" crew. I guess the TTN base is up and running now?

[Edited 2014-08-06 07:18:37]
 
sdoyon
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:25 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:26 pm

From the Frontier website, launch of 10 new markets:

Fares are available for travel from start of service through March 1, 2015 Denver to/from West Palm Beach, FL; Washington Dulles, DC to Cancun, MX, and to/from West Palm Beach, FL; Orlando, FL to/from Atlanta, GA; Milwaukee, WI to/from Orlando, FL and Fort Meyers, FL; Chicago (O’Hare), IL to/from Orlando, FL; St. Louis, MO to/from Fort Lauderdale, FL, Orlando, FL; and Trenton, NJ to/from West Palm Beach, FL. Offer is not available Nov. 21 – Dec. 1, 2014, Dec. 19, 2014 – Jan. 4, 2015. Service to Cancun, Mexico is subject to government approval.

http://www.flyfrontier.com/market-launch-10-cities
 
pointer
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:18 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:25 pm

Jeepyjeep, TTN, DEN and MDW/ORD are Flight Attendant bases. Pilots are only based at DEN and MDW/ORD.

Regarding MKE as a base, why? It failed miserably under RAH and as Brian Bedford stated MKE is not a popular destination for leisure travel. I can see us potentially adding frequency from focus cities to MKE from CLE, IAD, TTN.


[Edited 2014-08-06 08:32:07]
 
Buddys747
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:33 pm

I was hoping to see MDT- southern Florida route with these additions. Nice to see PBI get some F9 love.
 
jreuschl
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:04 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:44 pm

 
MEA-707
Posts: 3806
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting runningonempty (Reply 33):
Thanks for that! It really seems interesting. All that is served by a Gulfstream? It seems that they are operating one Gulfstream and one FRJ (Doriner?) 328

Sorry not about Frontier but what do you mean on that route a 'Gulfstream' is operated? By whom? If they fly with a Gulfstream aircraft it would be fantastic and I would go there just for that. Indeed an FRJ is a Dornier 328 Jet.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2197
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:09 pm

Guess I don't have to worry about making Ascent next year because F9 is gutting the elite program, no more free bags, no more change fee waiver for Summit members, no more free drinks (even the non-alcholic kind). Also non-elites will begin to be charged a award redemption fee for awards made less than 180 days prior.

I guess when the seats get installed they'll be reducing the pitch. Hope they keep STRETCH.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3864
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 204):
http://www.jsonline.com/business/fro...service-b99325613z1-270166411.html

New flights from MKE

More than just MKE - here are the other additions:

MKE-MCO
MKE-RSW

TTN-PBI
DEN-PBI
IAD-PBI

ATL-MCO
ORD-MCO
STL-MCO

STL-FLL

IAD-CUN

http://www.flyfrontier.com/market-launch-10-cities
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting jeepyjeep (Reply 200):
Here's what Frontier Elite will offer:
Quoting jeepyjeep (Reply 200):
• Complimentary carry-on bag
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 206):
F9 is gutting the elite program, no more free bags

If I understand correctly elites will still receive a complementary carry-on. The free checked bag is gone. With that said I found you can fit quite a bit in a personal item under those $5 seats (under the seat in front of you) in the forward part of the aircraft. The new slim seating may change that.

One cannot help but to think the ULCC model is inching ever so closer to a pay to use blue juice disposal fee.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 207):
MKE-MCO
MKE-RSW

TTN-PBI
DEN-PBI
IAD-PBI

ATL-MCO
ORD-MCO
STL-MCO

STL-FLL

IAD-CUN

All geared towards one thing - solving Frontier;s long-standing financial problem of 1Q. Even in the glory days, Frontier seldom - if ever - made money in the winter quarter.

Siegel believes is is because - DEN oriented - Frontier did not participate in the eastern snowbird traffic, north-south to Florida, and much of what has happened is to address that.

I am surpassed theory haven't announced IAD/TTN-NAS, they have approval for both from the DOT (MKE-PVR hasn't been approved yet) so maybe there's another shoe to drop?

Of all the new routes, the one that intrigues me most is ATL-MCO - but that may be because I'm still remembering the bad ol' days of the relationship with Delta/Northwest. Now ATL is starting to look almost like a focus city.

There are also some changes at Apple Vacations. Frontier isn't slated for anything at PHL beyond the end of November - Xtra Airways seems to be taking over that work and some of the PIT flying. I'm not sure what is happening at BWI - AeroMexico is taking over BWI-CUN but there's nothing for BWI-PUJ beyond the end of November yet, which is still shown as Frontier.

As a side note, some of Apple's BOS-PUJ, which is mostly JetBlue, also now has some service by IcelandAir. At MKE, both Frontier and Southwest (ex-Airtran) are flying MKE-MBJ and MKE-PUJ for Apple, but Southwest seems to have no interest in the "all-charter" flights - both of it's flights for Apple as listed as "subject top government approval" so - I assume - Southwest is applying to authority to fly them as scheduled.

The times they are a'changing.  

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2672
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:17 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 207):
ORD-MCO

Here I was hoping MCO would have been operated from MDW.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5514
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:41 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 209):
f all the new routes, the one that intrigues me most is ATL-MCO - but that may be because I'm still remembering the bad ol' days of the relationship with Delta/Northwest. Now ATL is starting to look almost like a focus city.

I'm most intrigued by IAD-PBI. I can't remember if UA has ever flown it, but UA has completely abandoned IAD-South Florida. It will be interesting to see if F9 can make it work. They won't have any competition, so that should help. I'm assuming it will only be seasonal.
 
BravoEchoNov
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:55 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:47 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 209):
All geared towards one thing - solving Frontier;s long-standing financial problem of 1Q. Even in the glory days, Frontier seldom - if ever - made money in the winter quarter.

Is anyone aware of when the last time Frontier F9 has made a 1st quarter profit?
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting BravoEchoNov (Reply 212):
Is anyone aware of when the last time Frontier F9 has made a 1st quarter profit?

I think the last 1Q profit was 2006 ($4 million), having lost $6.6 million in 1Q 2005.

After that, it was downhill again, with a 1Q loss of $4 million in 2007 and culminating in the 1Q 2011 loss ($55 million) which is when Republic decided to cut loose.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=47497

" For the quarter ended, March 31, 2011, Frontier posted a pre-tax loss of $55.2 million compared to a pre-tax loss of $70.4 million for the quarter ended March 31, 2010."

mariner

[Edited 2014-08-06 18:20:19]
aeternum nauta
 
BravoEchoNov
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:55 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 213):
I think the last 1Q profit was 2006 ($4 million), having lost $6.6 million in 1Q 2005.

Thanks for the help!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:02 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 209):
I am surpassed theory haven't announced IAD/TTN-NAS, they have approval for both from the DOT (MKE-PVR hasn't been approved yet) so maybe there's another shoe to drop?

According to press reports, Frontier is waiting on approval from the Bahamas:

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...ercer_and_bahamas_in_november.html

"Frontier Airlines poised to begin service between Trenton-Mercer and Bahamas in November

Approval from the Bahamian government is expected any day, Hughes said. Frontier will launch the service between Trenton-Mercer Airport and Nassau in mid-November, according to a news release."


mariner
aeternum nauta
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:23 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 215):

Pending approval by the Bahamian government I wonder if there might be plans to rebrand TTN as a International airport. A Intl moniker opens the door to international Grant funding. Perhaps something for Mr. Hughes would want to consider.

TTN might be in the running for the smallest Intl airport.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2128
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:00 am

SBN just went International and will have their FIS up and running next year. Besides Allegiant wanting to fly to CUN an unnamed airline approached airport officials with interest to fly to the Bahamas.

Just looked at our airport traffic at SBN. We have been down almost every month since Frontier left. This June we were down 2,923 passengers of which F9 carried 2300 of those on 17 flights (135 bodies per flight) F9 decided to make BMI and CID seasonal with about the same load factors as SBN which they pulled out of. I'm sure with the proper pricing for the proper yield they can come back seasonally and make the SBN-DEN market work. But F9 seems to be trying to not depend on DEN and the strategy seems to be working where they can make a profit in the first quarter.

Also with F9 branching out into all these new markets, I wonder where they are finding the airplanes. Right now they just do not have enough to go around.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 217):
I wonder where they are finding the airplanes.

I suspect a seasonal reductions in other markets. TTN-BNA goes from four flights a week to two flights a week in January and February. I suspect there are other cities downsizing some across the cold season.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2089
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:10 am

Hearing F9 my start 1 daily Apple vacation flight to 4 Mexican destinations from SNA some time in 2015.
Sunday thru Friday flights will operate on overnight rotation departs SNA at 21:30 with returns arrival at 7:45 am.
Saturday turn will operate in the day time.
I'm hearing SJD will be on Saturday's only.
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 677
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:51 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 219):
Hearing F9 my start 1 daily Apple vacation flight to 4 Mexican destinations from SNA some time in 2015

There had been some speculation a while back that Apple was interested in expanding its' presence on the west coast. Perhaps what you are hearing my come to pass.

Frontier 14
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:22 am

APPLE VACATIONS UPDATE

There have been some big changes to the Apple Vacations schedule for the coming winter, partly because Airtran (who used to do a to of flying for Apple) ceases to exist. All references to Airtran in the schedule end tihs month.

But there have been some changes involving Frontier, too (not in alphabetical order):

PHL: Based on the Apple published schedule, there is nothing with Frontier after November. All the 2015 flying is with Xtra Airways (CUN/PUJ 100% charter at this stage), and there is a rumour that Frontier is closing PHL as a station. I wonder if this has some bearing on ILG?

BWI: Aeromexico ia listed for all the BWI-CUN flying. Frontier is still shown as BWI-PUJ until November and I assume that Apple hasn't found a replacement yet because the rumour about station closure also applies to BWI.

PIT: Presently shown as (i) Airtran, all ending this month, (ii) Frontier until November and then (iii) Xtra Airways for 2015.

Xtra Airways should be happy.  DTW: Was all Airtran and is now all Frontier (CUN/PUJ) at least until April 2015. I assume this makes aircraft scheduling easier for Frontier.

LAN is coming back, but with Aeromexico, not Frontier, but PHF-CUN isn't shown.This is a bit sad for PHF because Allegiant is ending PHF-SFB this month, but on the upside, PHF now has PEX.

Most of the other stations stay pretty much as they were, with the exception of BOS. It seems Apple is casting its net wide for airlines because Icelandair is shown as flying some of the BOS-PUJ flights.

The most interesting one may be MKE. AeroMexico takes over (ex-Airtran) MKE-CUN, MKE-CZM and MKE-ZIH and Frontier takes over MKE-PVR - which is also going scheduled.

MKE-MBJ and MKE-PUJ are split between Frontier and (surprise!) Southwest. But there is a note attached to the Southwest flights - "subject to government approval." Since charter flights don't need that approval, I can only assume that Southwest wants them to be scheduled as well.

This might be the way of the future. Some of the vacation packagers are moving away from some (not all) of the charter flights (100% risk to the packager) and making capacity purchase agreements (CPA's) on scheduled flights, thus splitting the risk - Frontier MKE-PVR for example, and Southwest MKE-MBJ/PUJ (assuming I'm right about Southwest wanting scheduled).

Note - Frontier's MKE-CUN comes back, but I think (?) the packager is Funjet, and anyway, it is a scheduled flight.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 219):
Hearing F9 my start 1 daily Apple vacation flight to 4 Mexican destinations from SNA some time in 2015.

That's an interesting rumor. So far, Apple has restricted its west coast/Mexico flying to AeroMexico and LAX (although Frontier did fly the first season LAX-CUN and found it a bit of a cost or scheduling nightmare).

Presently, Apple has LAX-CUN/ZIH and HUX showing, all with Aeromexico. If Apple (with Frontier?) wants to expand to SNA, I wonder how that affects SNA slots, which are scarce as hen's teeth. Maybe they don't apply to charters? Or maybe SNA has a special allocation for international flights?

If your rumour is true and if it is all (or mostly) red-eye flying, that would be quite useful in terms of aircraft utilisation, if some late arrival times at the destination airports.

In view of the restrictions at SNA, I wonder if ONT might - might - be an interesting station for Frontier.

mariner

[Edited 2014-08-08 17:33:05]
aeternum nauta
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 221):
APPLE VACATIONS UPDATE

There have been some big changes to the Apple Vacations schedule for the coming winter, partly because Airtran (who used to do a to of flying for Apple) ceases to exist. All references to Airtran in the schedule end tihs month.

But there have been some changes involving Frontier, too (not in alphabetical order):

PHL: Based on the Apple published schedule, there is nothing with Frontier after November. All the 2015 flying is with Xtra Airways (CUN/PUJ 100% charter at this stage), and there is a rumour that Frontier is closing PHL as a station. I wonder if this has some bearing on ILG?

BWI: Aeromexico ia listed for all the BWI-CUN flying. Frontier is still shown as BWI-PUJ until November and I assume that Apple hasn't found a replacement yet because the rumour about station closure also applies to BWI.

PIT: Presently shown as (i) Airtran, all ending this month, (ii) Frontier until November and then (iii) Xtra Airways for 2015.

This all makes sense. F9 s trying to increase aircraft utilization, and ferrying airplanes does not help that. So closing BWI, PHL, PIT, and not operating BDL-PUJ makes sense. I assume PHF-CUN not returning is more of a function of it not performing to Apple's standards last year.

On a related note, DEN-MBJ has been removed from the route map (and isn't listed on Apple's site either). Many on here thought that would do well. I guess not.
 
YXwatcherMKE
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 3:06 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:27 am

Just a point of clarification on MKE and F9. I was not trying to say in any way that F9 was going to start a focus City at MKE or anything else other that they were looking into the possibility toadding few other destinations from MKE. My thanks to Mariner and to others for posting faster than I could since I do not have internet at home and have limited time on the internet.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:09 pm

Here is the USA Today article from two days ago on the recently announced new cities with some additional comments from Daniel Shurz. http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...s-usa-with-10-new-routes/13733733/

"Frontier senior vice president Daniel Shurz tells The Philadelphia Inquirer the carrier's growth strategy has been to find "profitable flying opportunities that are not in Denver. We are accelerating a process of looking to find other opportunities around the country."
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 677
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:26 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 224):
We are accelerating a process of looking to find other opportunities around the country."

Makes one wonder how many more routes can be added without acquiring more aircraft. It almost seems as though there has been a strategy shift to not fly to medium size cities anymore, in favor of taking the ULCC model to major urban areas.

It will be interesting to see how many seasonal flight reductions actually do resume come April.

Frontier 14
 
sdoyon
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:25 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:00 am

Anyone know how BFL is doing? I see that it remains 3x weekly until January, when it is seasonally discontinued. Haven't heard too much about it since it joined the network a few months ago.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:38 am

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 225):

Yes sir, In some ways I often thought F9 took some pages from WN playbook of yesteryear. Looking for smaller under served markets. I suppose all airlines look for that hidden gem and or gold mine.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2197
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:10 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 227):
Yes sir, In some ways I often thought F9 took some pages from WN playbook of yesteryear. Looking for smaller under served markets. I suppose all airlines look for that hidden gem and or gold mine.

Actually WN was planning on coming to TTN but wanted a new terminal with jetways. The project was going to go forward until the NIMBYs caused WN to back out.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:32 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 228):
Actually WN was planning on coming to TTN but wanted a new terminal with jetways. The project was going to go forward until the NIMBYs caused WN to back out.

Yes I remember you mentioning that. Its funny how WN opted to run from TTN and the smaller F9 stayed for the fight.

In someways WN takes on the appearance of the little kid on the playground who stomps off with his ball because he didn't get picked or the other kids didn't want to play by his rules.

As a retired contracting professional I still chuckle when I hear the story about Herb Kelleher dropping a Airbus cigarette lighter while in contract negotiations with Boeing.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:25 am

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 225):
Makes one wonder how many more routes can be added without acquiring more aircraft. It almost seems as though there has been a strategy shift to not fly to medium size cities anymore, in favor of taking the ULCC model to major urban areas.

It will be interesting to see how many seasonal flight reductions actually do resume come April.


I really hope they continue to fly to medium sized cities...I was disappointed to see CID being changed to seasonal, but from what I have heard the flight is doing good. It's been a major part of the growth in pax numbers from CID over the past year. But it sounds like they may be plane constrained this winter so that could be part of the reason why.
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 225):

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 224):
We are accelerating a process of looking to find other opportunities around the country."

Makes one wonder how many more routes can be added without acquiring more aircraft. It almost seems as though there has been a strategy shift to not fly to medium size cities anymore, in favor of taking the ULCC model to major urban areas.

It will be interesting to see how many seasonal flight reductions actually do resume come April.

Agreed. Clearly with adding 10 new routes, they did have airplanes so the seasonal cuts made elsewhere were most likely underperforming. I wouldn't be shocked to see the ILG focus city go to just DEN/MCO come April.
 
point2point
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 222):
On a related note, DEN-MBJ has been removed from the route map (and isn't listed on Apple's site either). Many on here thought that would do well. I guess not.

Hmmmmm.... DEN-MBJ has usually been somewhere among the DEN top 20 international stations (mostly 19th or 20th) with some 30 O&D PDEW. I have to admit that I did think that a seasonal 1X weekly could/would have easily filled an F9 bird. What's also surprising that PUJ pax numbers were about half that of MBJ, yet PUJ is continuing in 2015 and MBJ is not? Even though it's only 8 roundtrips, DEN-PUJ are being offered in the summer (which almost seems counter-intuitive), and DEN-MBJ was offered in the winter? Hmmmmmm.....?

As is the old adage...... all F9 and Apple can do is offer...... and the DEN (or MBJ even) public have to do the rest.......

 
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 232):
I have to admit that I did think that a seasonal 1X weekly could/would have easily filled an F9 bird.

Apple isn't bringing back DEN-MBJ, either, even as all-charter, at least not so far. If it had done well for Apple, presumably it would have come back, perhaps with reduced participation by Frontier.

As with DEN-PUJ, which, as you say, is coming back June/July 2015. But that's mostly Apple, Frontier doesn't have to sell the whole plane.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 232):

With some Caribbean time under my belt; mostly in the Bahamas and Turks & Caicos including some travel into the Lesser Antilles. http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/carib.htm

I spent two days in MBJ Jamaica. I wasn't overly impressed. I would rather spend my time and money in the Cayman Islands, St. Lucia, St. Kitts and the Virgin Islands in that order. I never got to Punta Cana so I can't speak for it. It seems to be holding its own.

I was surprised when F9 decided on DEN-MBJ. It looks like F9 continues to fly to MBJ from STL and ORD. So there are some opportunities for the hard core Jamaica fans. Perhaps Nassau is a swap for MBJ.

Where Caribbean nostalgia enter the equation I still enjoy seeing the old Esso fuel signs in lieu of Exxon signage.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
User avatar
mke717spotter
Posts: 2168
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:32 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 234):
I never got to Punta Cana so I can't speak for it. It seems to be holding its own.

From my experience, Punta Cana is on par with Playa Del Carmen.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:43 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 234):
I would rather spend my time and money in the Cayman Islands, St. Lucia, St. Kitts and the Virgin Islands in that order.
Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 235):
From my experience, Punta Cana is on par with Playa Del Carmen.

I also want to give honorable mention to what IMO is a best kept secret; Limon, Costa Rica MRLM https://www.google.com/search?q=Limon%2C+Costa+Rica&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp If F9 flew there I would be on the flight tomorrow. F9 can get you within 45 minutes or so via SJO MROC I told myself then I could retire there.

It has been a lot of years since 1989. RLM had a single 6000'/1800 meter runway just off the beach on the Gulf of Mexico. On one side a jungle on the other. http://skyvector.com/airport/MRLM/Limon-International-Airport

The Coast Guard C-130 I was on taxied down turned around and burned down the runway on four engines and lifted out. The aircraft commander invited me to sit in the jump seat between her and the co-pilot. What a treat. I'd like to think they solicited my help having arrived from Spain a month or so earlier with the ability to speak some broken Spanish or was it because I was the only person who had a passport.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2197
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:08 am

While, it is true that TTN is doing better and has much more service, articles like this make it seem like there is no loss and we just keep adding destinations. 4 destinations went seasonal but are only being replaced by 2 new desttinations (PBI and NAS). I do hope that some routes come back for the summer (perhaps DEN and MDW are good candidates)

I do however agree with analyst Michael Boyd when he says "That area (Trenton) has greater population density and higher incomes and is a longer drive to a major airport"

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...ier-routes-trenton-gains/13973277/
 
YXwatcherMKE
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 3:06 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:46 am

DOes F9 have any a/c on order at this time and if so what and when are they due, out side of the A32xneo's?
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:25 am

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 238):
DOes F9 have any a/c on order at this time and if so what and when are they due, out side of the A32xneo's?

Yes, but it's a bit complicated and a lot of rumor. There's a new A320 w/sharklets at GYR now - N227FR - and I've heard a rumor of two more by Spring.

Wiki says differently - that there are 4 x A320 coming and 2 x A319, but I haven't heard that, and Wiki isn't always reliable about the Frontier fleet. For a while there, Wiki claimed that Frontier had 2 x A330 on order. That would be a sight to see, but it was bollox and was eventually taken down.

It may be that Frontier is being opportunistic - taking the right aircraft at the right price, if and when they become available.

It seems, for example, that N227FR was originally intended for GoAir and was partially painted in their livery but never made it to India, it was "ntu" as in the notes in the link. I've been told that Go took an earlier aircraft that had become available, leaving MSN 6184 for Frontier, but I can't vouch for that.

Pic (in partial Go livery) here:

http://xfw-spotter.blogspot.co.nz/20...-goair-f-wwby-vt-gos-msn-6184.html

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:21 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 239):
Wiki says differently - that there are 4 x A320 coming and 2 x A319,

Hmm... I thought they were phasing out the 319 fleet. Maybe the current ones were purchased/leased on exceptionally unfavorable terms.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:42 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 240):
Hmm... I thought they were phasing out the 319 fleet. Maybe the current ones were purchased/leased on exceptionally unfavorable terms.

Not entirely.

The Neo order is for 60 x A320Neo and 20 x A319Neo - originally it was 40/40.

The A320 is the preferred aircraft (more pax/more revenue/similar cost) and I suppose the order could be changed again - I have heard that it is to be 18/62 but I've never seen that confirmed and there have even been hints of the A321Neo from Bill Franke (as in "maybe").

But I think there is a place for the A319 in the fleet on some of the thinner routes - DRO, perhaps or GFT, and, presently, all of TTN and they've never put the A320 on the very long routes - SJO, ANC, FAI and DEN-PUJ, although that may change with the A320Neo has has slightly more range.

However, a number of the current A319's have come to the end of their ten year leases and they were possibly more expensive. And when Republic decided on the fleet rationalisation, they demanded lower rates and some lessors wouldn't play ball, so those left. There may even be one more to go.

It's bit of a balancing act (or a Catch 22). They have the Neo's coming and I doubt they want too many long leases on Ceo aircraft, but short leases can be expensive.

That's why I think they're being opportunistic - if the right aircraft comes along at the right price they'l take it, as seems to have happened with N227FR.

mariner

[Edited 2014-08-12 23:44:36]
aeternum nauta
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:42 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 237):

ILG is in a precarious geographical location in relationship to TTN: At 60 miles it's too close to TTN and IMO to far from IAD. One route I would like to see is ILG-CLT which would connect credit card America with the banking center in CLT. http://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-ook/routes-schedules/route-maprd I think LGA-CLT would be a better choice than TTN-CLT

[Edited 2014-08-13 09:46:53]
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
krsw757
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:22 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:02 pm

I've noticed F9 has slowly been adding more and more destinations form RSW. Granted most, if not all are all less than daily. Just curious, are they planning on basing a plane there or are they all rotated through other bases? Either way, good to to seem them adding more services to RSW.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:41 pm

Quoting krsw757 (Reply 243):
are they planning on basing a plane there or are they all rotated through other bases?
www.flightradar24.com is a decent research tool to identify RON (Remain Overnight) airframes by registration number. It usually shows a three or more day schedule.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:00 pm

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 226):
Anyone know how BFL is doing? I see that it remains 3x weekly until January, when it is seasonally discontinued. Haven't heard too much about it since it joined the network a few months ago.

79% LF in May, first month of operations. Fares have been rock bottom for the most part.
 
JetBlueCLT
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:10 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 242):

I fully agree with you and I would like to see Frontier add CLT-MCO. I believe that route could support F9 with WN ending it in November. Though, I would prefer B6 but domestic additions from MCO are very minimal... Better luck with FLL.

I'm trying Frontier for the first time soon from CLT-IAD-CLT. Looking forward to it, been wanting to go on an F9 flight since I was a little kid.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:33 pm

Looking at latest DOT numbers for May,

TTN seemed to do well. All but 3 routes had over an 80 LDF. CLE was the worst at 63%.

For ILG, all routes were 85% or better except DTW which was an abysmal 61.

No surprise that ILG-DTW and TTN-CLE are slated to be discontinued.

As for DEN-MBJ, neither January or February cracked 60.

I suspect all of the summer routes started in June will come in pretty high with the exception of MDW-MDT/TYS which appear to have done pretty poorly.
 
mcg
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:51 pm

Slightly off topic and irrelevant question for the tech-wallahs: Would the now departed 318's be able to operate TTN-DEN with a full load (assuming reasonable temperature and winds)?

Thanks
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2197
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 46

Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 248):

I think even if it could the reduced load wouldnt make sense financially

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos