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STT757
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Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:32 pm

Skywest has orders for 100 MRJ-90s, and 100 ERJ-175 E-2, for whom might these aircraft be operated? Also how many seats will there be in the MRJ-90?

Thanks.
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175erj
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):

Actually, SkyWest Inc has more orders than that on the books.

100 MRJ plus 100 options
60 E175 (40 of the original 100 going to United) plus 100 options
100 E175-E2 plus 100 options (Launch customer)


SkyWest has met with management from Alaska and American in recent weeks, so you could see some end up there. It is to my knowledge, however, that the 175 orders are conditional and based on SkyWest signing a contract to fly them and in no means are obligated to actually having them delivered.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:11 pm

The larger question is which Inc. company will actually fly these... SkyWest or ExpressJet. I imagine a healthy amount will end up at ExpressJet as the 145's and 200's are drawn down...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
jetskipper
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:26 am

I have a feeling that ExpressJet will be slowing eliminated s their crew costs are higher than Skywest's.
 
175erj
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:39 am

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 2):

Negative... ExpressJet is going to be wound down. Costs are too high. They have over 100 aircraft coming off contract through March 2015... and believe me Inc is not itching to extend any of their flying.

[Edited 2014-06-14 18:40:38]
 
bjorn14
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:04 pm

Where all those 145s going? Beer cans?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:04 pm

SkyWest doesn't have the staffing to fly all those planes on order... The only side of Inc. with a large pilot supply able to shift readily to those planes will be ExpressJet.... I still believe not all the EMB's or MRJ's will end up at SkyWest Airlines.... In addition, the pilots won't shift from XJT to SKW if XJT is wound down....
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:20 pm

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 6):

SkyWest doesn't have the staffing to fly all those planes on order...

They've never had staffing to fly the airplanes they've had on order. Ever. But that's what hiring pools are for.  
Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 6):
In addition, the pilots won't shift from XJT to SKW if XJT is wound down....

They can shift with preferential interviews---but they're not bringing their contract with them.

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 6):
The only side of Inc. with a large pilot supply able to shift readily to those planes will be ExpressJet....

Preferential interviews.
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N353SK
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:18 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 4):
Negative... ExpressJet is going to be wound down. Costs are too high. They have over 100 aircraft coming off contract through March 2015... and believe me Inc is not itching to extend any of their flying.

On the 5/8/14 shareholder earnings call the SKYW BOD said that they would happily renew any ERJ CPAs at "market rates" should United wish to keep them flying. If you read the transcript of the call you'll see very little mention of employee cost issues but frequent comments about revenue issues on most of the ERJ flying.

Transcript here (must register to read full transcript): http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/SKYW/transcripts
 
flight152
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:34 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 4):
and believe me Inc is not itching to extend any of their flying.

Uh what? They have extended contracts several times already.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 7):
But that's what hiring pools are for.

Newsflash! There isn't a large supply of pilots available!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:02 pm

Quoting flight152 (Reply 9):

Newsflash! There isn't a large supply of pilots available!

And? That means diddly-squat as to whether they have a pool and can fill classes.
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ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:13 pm

This is one time I'll disagree with you Golden.... Preferential interviews mean Jack in this case... Most XJT pilots wouldn't run to SKW just to have a job if they get wound down... Most would make more on unemployment than start over at a regional... They'll just go wait to get to a mainline or leave the industry... I doubt any size able percentage would go to SKW.... Further, hiring pools mean little here... There aren't many pilots to put in those pools... The pilot market as a whole is drying up fast for the regional levels and then factor in the new ATP rules about to start.... Yet another death nail to the hiring ability for regional airlines.... The Regional market in the US is entering a tailspin....
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
mcdu
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:18 pm

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 11):
The Regional market in the US is entering a tailspin....

Finally. Let's all hope these carriers disappear sooner rather than later. They have done nothing to enhance the travel experience with their rolling irregular operations, understaffed, under motivated and poorly screened frontline employees. Some of the PA announcements and flight attendants I have seen on Skywest and Expressjet have been eye opening in a negative way
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 11):
Most XJT pilots wouldn't run to SKW just to have a job if they get wound down... Most would make more on unemployment than start over at a regional...

I never said that they'd start at year-1 rates. Simply that they would get preferential interviews. For the most part, if there DOES become a hiring problem for the SkyWest side, then INC. would do everything in its power to keep the profitable SkyWest side profitable. This could mean shifting the pilots over from the shrinking XJET ERJ side, and I'm well aware that they wouldn't want to just start all over. No one would. There's going to have to be a carrot, and a damn good one at that, in order to entice the pilots over. Things like a hiring bonus, or 4th year FO pay, and 2nd year captain pay with a temporary rate lock.
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175erj
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:45 pm

Quoting flight152 (Reply 9):
Quoting N353SK (Reply 8):

The only chance that any of the frames L-XJT flies get extended is if United "corrects the rates." With them losing over 600 million last quarter, they are in NO hurry to pay more for the ERJ flying, especially when they want to park 50 seaters. ExpressJet also needs to bring their costs down and with the pilots refusing any type of concessionary contract, there is just no way that Inc will continue to lose money on them. ERJ classes have been cancelled for remainder of the year and no more hiring in sight. That should tell you at least part of the plan. ExpressJet pilots are playing a high stakes game of chicken, thinking that there is just no way United would cut the feed and SkyWest needs to keep them around. Nothing could be further than the truth.

United can take those planes and find someone else to fly them for cheaper or dumb enough to take a unprofitable contract, such as Trans States.

[Edited 2014-06-15 09:47:56]
 
flight152
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 14):
Nothing could be further than the truth.

Keep drinking the cool aid dude. No airline can take on this much flying; not even your beloved SkyWest.

Quoting 175erj (Reply 14):
ExpressJet also needs to bring their costs down and with the pilots refusing any type of concessionary contrac

Damn straight. The race to the bottom has stopped. (Unless you work for PSA)
 
DDR
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:16 pm

Wouldn't Express Jet's costs come down if they replaced the 50 seaters with larger aircraft? Also, which side is costing so much money? Is it the ERJ or CRJ side of the house?
 
N353SK
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 14):
The only chance that any of the frames L-XJT flies get extended is if United "corrects the rates." With them losing over 600 million last quarter, they are in NO hurry to pay more for the ERJ flying, especially when they want to park 50 seaters. ExpressJet also needs to bring their costs down and with the pilots refusing any type of concessionary contract, there is just no way that Inc will continue to lose money on them. ERJ classes have been cancelled for remainder of the year and no more hiring in sight. That should tell you at least part of the plan. ExpressJet pilots are playing a high stakes game of chicken, thinking that there is just no way United would cut the feed and SkyWest needs to keep them around. Nothing could be further than the truth.

United can take those planes and find someone else to fly them for cheaper or dumb enough to take a unprofitable contract, such as Trans States.

The ExpressJet COO said on the record at the RAA convention in May that he expects at least a portion of the aircraft set to expire in 2015 to be renewed. It was published in FlightGlobal but I can't find it at the moment.
 
miller22
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:02 pm

Both the 175 E2 and the MRJ90 are currently outside scope limits. I wouldn't expect Skywest to take delivery of aircraft they couldn't fly.
 
N353SK
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting miller22 (Reply 18):

Both the 175 E2 and the MRJ90 are currently outside scope limits. I wouldn't expect Skywest to take delivery of aircraft they couldn't fly.

Sadly, I'm sure pilots at the majors will allow the MTOW limits to be raised in exchange for other contract provision.

If SKYW really wants these aircraft and scope stays as it is I'm sure Embraer and Mitsubishi will be willing to create a sub-model with whatever MTOW is needed, just like the CRJ-440 Northwest used to get around scope in 2001.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:22 pm

Quoting N353SK (Reply 19):
Sadly, I'm sure pilots at the majors will allow the MTOW limits to be raised in exchange for other contract provision.

Its not MTOW limits, its seating. And no, they won't, they saw what happened the first time, I don't see majors giving up any more scope. If anything, they'll take it back

-DiamondFlyer
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flight152
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
Its not MTOW limits, its seating

It's both. At least for Delta and United.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:23 am

Quoting flight152 (Reply 21):
It's both. At least for Delta and United.

The seating can always be changes to fit the scope. The MTOW is a different issue. That will defiantly have to come form the scope clause.

The alternative is that Embraer will have to engineer a reduced weight model, see a cancelation of the order, or SkyWest will have to find alternative customers through their leasing corporation. It does seam really awkward that Embrear would size their e175 replacement above the known replacement market.

Why not size an 170 e2 for the edge of the MTOW and seat limit and make the e175 e2 for a potential expansion in scope clauses? because I agree with DiamondFlyer

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
I don't see majors giving up any more scope. If anything, they'll take it back
Quoting flight152 (Reply 9):
Newsflash! There isn't a large supply of pilots available!

Every regional is running short of qualified and acceptable candidates. I think envoy is going to shut their doors, but they are paying for recruitment ads.

Quoting DDR (Reply 16):
Wouldn't Express Jet's costs come down if they replaced the 50 seaters with larger aircraft? Also, which side is costing so much money? Is it the ERJ or CRJ side of the house?

The rates would have to be renegotiated for a new aircraft type, so there would be no guarantee that it would bring cost in line.
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bjorn14
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:29 pm

"Why not size an E170 e2"

Embraer is not offering a E170 E2. Only the 175 190 195.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:31 pm

"Why not size an E170 e2"

Embraer is not offering a E170 E2. Only the 175 190 195.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3497
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 23):
"Why not size an E170 e2"

Embraer is not offering a E170 E2. Only the 175 190 195.

No kidding.... That is why he said "why not do it"...
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:07 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 24):

Obviously they aren't, hence I asked the question- why did embrear not offer an e170 e2 when they expanded the 175 e2 over the scope clause?
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deltal1011man
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RE: Skywest Aircraft Orders

Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:58 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
And no, they won't, they saw what happened the first time,

They did? Then why did Delta and United just give up more scope?

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
I don't see majors giving up any more scope.

really cause its all I see. United had a chance to really help the industry, they just me tooed with Delta......and DALPA pissed away 70 more jets because they believed Delta would keep flying around 350 50 seaters if they didn't.

Management will come up with a carrot, the sheep (lower level management) will pass out the propaganda and away we go.

But with people like Tony Charaf(thank God he is FIANLLY leaving.), Joe Kolshak and Lee Moak getting old, maybe just maybe there is hope. (personally I don't see it, most of the new management people are just sheep and fallow them around....."just because".)

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
If anything, they'll take it back

lol and gold bricks will come flying from my butt.

To many people believe it "just can't be done".....

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 22):
Why not size an 170 e2 for the edge of the MTOW and seat limit and make the e175 e2 for a potential expansion in scope clauses?

because so far in the last 20 year airline employees have rolled over, or the government refuses to allow them self help.

Or other unions help the airline to screw over a non AFL-CIO union and send the craft back to basically square one. (ie the AMFA strike at NW and the TWU and IAM helping NW because they wanted to show how much bigger their d**ks were.)

In other words, Unions and the government are killing US airline employees. Unions wont fight and the government wont allow self help, if I'm EMB or BBD i am going to bank on airline employees folding again.

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