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Coal
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How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:14 am

AA started their DFW-HKG flights last week. I am curious to know how loads have been in the first week of operation, although this may not necessarily be an indication of whether the flight will be around in the long term.

I see it departs DFW just after noon, which would allow morning connections from the Eastern US as well as South America flights. I am a bit surprised that the plane sits in HKG for c. 19 hours before turning back. I wonder if this is just to facilitate connections at DFW? It will certainly allow SE Asia and China connections from CX and KA.

Thoughts?

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zeke
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:43 am

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
AA started their DFW-HKG flights last week.

The intelligence I have received is that have managed to find HKG airport every time. It will be amusing to see them when the first typoon hits (had our first T1 this week for the season), and they soon learn they might need just a tad more gas than what they carry. China will not allow you to divert to one of their airports unless you declare a mayday, even if it is the filed alternate. Once you are on the ground, no passengers or crew are allowed to leave the aircraft, even to perform a walk around.

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
I am a bit surprised that the plane sits in HKG for c. 19 hours before turning back.

That is a good reason why some airline make money ULH, and some dont, it could have been back in the USA already.
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mhkansan
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:11 pm

I don't have any substantive data to add, but I flew the inaugural DFW-HKG and we went out 100% full and it appears we actually took quite a bit of cargo judging on what came out of the belly. There is an advertising campaign in Hong Kong for the new service, mostly focusing on latin american connections, but it pales in comparison to the ad space DL has around town promoting the new SEA-HKG flight.

Still, excited to see AA expanding to more places in Asia! Hopefully the 789 finds its way to this route post haste.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:15 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
The intelligence I have received is that have managed to find HKG airport every time. It will be amusing to see them when the first typoon hits (had our first T1 this week for the season), and they soon learn they might need just a tad more gas than what they carry. China will not allow you to divert to one of their airports unless you declare a mayday, even if it is the filed alternate. Once you are on the ground, no passengers or crew are allowed to leave the aircraft, even to perform a walk around.

From the westbound flight paths on flightaware, it either goes over PEK or cuts through South Korea, so I guess ICN and TPE are viable diversion points in case China says no.

Obviously a diversion to Zhuhai would be a major mess logistically.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
I am a bit surprised that the plane sits in HKG for c. 19 hours before turning back.

Obviously they were targeting some specific connections, but why not do a 0045WB, 0605 arrival in HKG, and the same return at 1330?

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 2):
it pales in comparison to the ad space DL has around town promoting the new SEA-HKG flight.

I wonder how much good that does. Once you get the corporate traffic signed up, the appropriate travel agencies, and are competitive price wise on the internet, how much of a difference can it make for one daily flight?
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mhkansan
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Obviously they were targeting some specific connections, but why not do a 0045WB, 0605 arrival in HKG, and the same return at 1330?

DFW shuts down that late - there aren't any inbounds to DFW that late, especially from South America where AA is targeting the traffic flows from HKG.
 
TUSAA
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:49 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 2):

I don't have any substantive data to add, but I flew the inaugural DFW-HKG and we went out 100% full and it appears we actually took quite a bit of cargo judging on what came out of the belly.

There hasn't been any cargo loaded to HKG as of yet. What you may have seen was COMAT, ticket stock, manuals, other station supplies, etc. Lots of bags though. Heard the lack of cargo was due to possible enroute headwinds, and the average block time has been 16hr20min.
 
as739x
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
The intelligence I have received is that have managed to find HKG airport every time

Priceless !!!  
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777STL
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:40 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
The intelligence I have received is that have managed to find HKG airport every time. It will be amusing to see them when the first typoon hits (had our first T1 this week for the season), and they soon learn they might need just a tad more gas than what they carry. China will not allow you to divert to one of their airports unless you declare a mayday, even if it is the filed alternate. Once you are on the ground, no passengers or crew are allowed to leave the aircraft, even to perform a walk around.

AA flies to DFW in the summer time and ORD in the winter time. This isn't their first rodeo with bad weather, I'm sure they'll be fine.
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AAplat4life
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:32 pm

I don't think that passenger data from the inaugural flight, or the first week of flights, is really determinative. I think that this is good route for AA because there are both business and tourist reasons to go to HKG. In contrast, PVG is just about business, but it is also about the future. For people who claim that DFW is not ideally located for Asian operations, the evidence seems to indicate otherwise given the traffic volume there and connections. Keep in mind also that AA does two round trips a day on DFW-NRT. Obviously, HGK is further but it does indicate reflect ample Asian travel demand via DFW.

The verdict is still out on DFW-ICN from what I understand in terms of selling the premium cabins, but it is still early.
 
ORDfan
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:41 pm

Quoting 777stl (Reply 8):
AA flies to DFW in the summer time and ORD in the winter time. This isn't their first rodeo with bad weather, I'm sure they'll be fine.

Not sure how this is going to pan out for AA... thing is that CX is 7x/weekly to ORD year-round. If I was a Oneworld regular, I'd seriously consider the relatively quick one-stop to ORD in order to fly on CX metal. I guess if you are not O&D in Hong Kong, you might not want to 2 stop, but I've done this before with this Star, often originating in IAH, connecting thru ORD to fly on Euro metal when I wanna go transatlantic, or on ANA or OZ for transpac, just to fly on the foreign flag for the long-haul leg.
 
AABB777
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 10):
Not sure how this is going to pan out for AA... thing is that CX is 7x/weekly to ORD year-round. If I was a Oneworld regular, I'd seriously consider the relatively quick one-stop to ORD in order to fly on CX metal. I guess if you are not O&D in Hong Kong, you might not want to 2 stop, but I've done this before with this Star, often originating in IAH, connecting thru ORD to fly on Euro metal when I wanna go transatlantic, or on ANA or OZ for transpac, just to fly on the foreign flag for the long-haul leg.

The AA product offering on the 77W is very competitive with the CX onboard product. In fact the Business Class seats are nearly identical products. I doubt many premium DFW originating pax would fly to ORD for a CX flight when they can fly on a brand-new AA 77W DFW-HKG.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 9):
For people who claim that DFW is not ideally located for Asian operations, the evidence seems to indicate otherwise given the traffic volume there and connections.

The biggest concern for the flight is costs, not revenue or volume. ORD-HKG is 7794mi great circle and can pretty much fly that distance (subject to Chinese air space restriction), but DFW-HKG is 8123mi great circle, but because GC goes through North Korea, it has to route via PEK, S. Korea, or Japan.

According to flightaware.com, the actual flown distance westbound for the past few days

6/11 8,579mi
6/12 8,397mi
6/13 8,427mi
6/14 8,522mi
6/15 8,380mi
6/16 8,480mi
6/17 8,509mi (planned)

Average 8471mi ground distance, which puts it in the league of ATL-JNB (and longer than LAX-AUH or DFW-BNE). You'll need some very good yield premium to counter the fuel for such stage lengths.
 
ORDfan
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:41 pm

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 11):
The AA product offering on the 77W is very competitive with the CX onboard product. In fact the Business Class seats are nearly identical products. I doubt many premium DFW originating pax would fly to ORD for a CX flight when they can fly on a brand-new AA 77W DFW-HKG.

Hmm, fair point about the hard product. I haven't been on one of the new AA 77Ws but from the pics, J, W, and Y do look identical, and F is very similar (though I think CX is a bit nicer). I guess I'm one of the guys who does seriously take into account soft product (hell I'm willing to grab a layover for it). Obviously for most folks I understand if thats not the case, particularly if travelling for business O&D. However, even as UA FF, I still prefer many of their Star counterparts on long-haul for largely that reason. I'd imagine AA vs CX on soft product probably falls along similar lines.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:41 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 12):
ORD-HKG is 7794mi great circle and can pretty much fly that distance (subject to Chinese air space restriction), but DFW-HKG is 8123mi great circle, but because GC goes through North Korea, it has to route via PEK, S. Korea, or Japan.

You definitely aren't going to be flying great circle routes through the PRC. Actually, CX ORD usually avoids Chinese airspace, and makes the dogleg turn around the Taiwan Strait.
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jetblue1965
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:51 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 14):
You definitely aren't going to be flying great circle routes through the PRC. Actually, CX ORD usually avoids Chinese airspace, and makes the dogleg turn around the Taiwan Strait.

That's most interesting because UA's ORD-HKG service consistently goes over PEK airspace, and judging from recent flights, is consistently shorter than CX's service, both by distance and by flight time.

The stranger thing is that CX's YYZ-HKG goes over PEK all the time, so it's not like they have trouble requesting access.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:03 pm

So far, loads have been decent. Its a really long flight, so its going to have to fill up the premium cabins well to keep going. I think the potential is definately there, I do wonder if the 77W will show to be too big. The 789 would be absolutely perfect for it if thats the case.

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 10):
If I was a Oneworld regular, I'd seriously consider the relatively quick one-stop to ORD in order to fly on CX metal. I guess if you are not O&D in Hong Kong, you might not want to 2 stop, but I've done this before with this Star, often originating in IAH, connecting thru ORD to fly on Euro metal when I wanna go transatlantic, or on ANA or OZ for transpac, just to fly on the foreign flag for the long-haul leg.

Very few in the DFW market are going to do that. Not only is the market ridiculously loyal to AA (and BA and EK) for international travel, we like our nonstop flights. If a stop is going to be involved, its going to because of cost.


Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 12):
Average 8471mi ground distance, which puts it in the league of ATL-JNB (and longer than LAX-AUH or DFW-BNE). You'll need some very good yield premium to counter the fuel for such stage lengths.

Thats an obscenely long flight. Im doing it in three weeks in J. I did LAX-SIN in premium economy back when the nonstop flight both existed and had premium economy. It doesnt appear to be that much shorter.
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ckfred
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
It will be amusing to see them when the first typoon hits (had our first T1 this week for the season), and they soon learn they might need just a tad more gas than what they carry.

I suspect that with MIA and a number of destinations along the coast from Boston to Key West to McAllen, AA knows a thing or two on how to deal with disruptions caused by hurricanes, including long-haul flights from Europe and South America.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:16 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 15):
That's most interesting because UA's ORD-HKG service consistently goes over PEK airspace, and judging from recent flights, is consistently shorter than CX's service, both by distance and by flight time.

The stranger thing is that CX's YYZ-HKG goes over PEK all the time, so it's not like they have trouble requesting access.

No trouble, it's just not a straight line. Flightaware shows it as such, but the dashed path is a little closer to the truth.

Pretty sure UA ORD-HKG "over PRC route" comes down the G218 B458 A461 airways. Even PEK-HKG can't be flown in a straight line. There's weird turns and angles in the airways all over China.
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jetblue1965
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 18):

No trouble, it's just not a straight line. Flightaware shows it as such, but the dashed path is a little closer to the truth.

Pretty sure UA ORD-HKG "over PRC route" comes down the G218 B458 A461 airways. Even PEK-HKG can't be flown in a straight line. There's weird turns and angles in the airways all over China.

The point remains that CX's ORD-HKG by following the NRT-KIX-TPE-HKG corridor is definitely longer than the polar one that UA takes, which incidentally has less headwinds too. The curvatures within PRC doesn't add up to be longer than over Japan. I'm really curious to what the rationale is.
 
MKIAZ
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:05 pm

It will be interesting to see. My guess is that it will do well, simply because it's the only link between the biggest OW hub in the US and the biggest in SE asia. Also most US citizens are much more likely to book on a us carrier, even if the product is worse. If it does well I could see AA starting LAX or ORD with the 789's.

Being the longest AA route by a good margin, it will definitely be a popular route to use SWU's on (sort of how ORD-DEL used to be). So it could be possible that the flight will lose money, but increase loyalty among EXP's who travel to HKG, resulting in more revenue elsewhere.
 
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:33 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
The intelligence I have received is that have managed to find HKG airport every time. It will be amusing to see them when the first typoon hits (had our first T1 this week for the season), and they soon learn they might need just a tad more gas than what they carry. China will not allow you to divert to one of their airports unless you declare a mayday, even if it is the filed alternate. Once you are on the ground, no passengers or crew are allowed to leave the aircraft, even to perform a walk around.

AA cant carry any more fuel than it does currently. The issue is the high fuel density at DFW. DFW is unable to cold soak the fuel. It causes the tanks to be full before the maximum aircraft capacity. There are also MTOW issues with it being such a long flight from DFW. To carry extra fuel, a lot of revenue would need to bumped.

The lack of available alternates is a huge issue. With FAR 117 duty hour rules, fuel and go diversions are nearly impossible for the DFW-HKG route. The only AA approved alternates for B777-300 in that part of the world are MFM, KHH and TPE.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 9):
Keep in mind also that AA does two round trips a day on DFW-NRT.

Incidentally, it's also their only NRT service with no competition currently or historically.

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 20):
My guess is that it will do well, simply because it's the only link between the biggest OW hub in the US and the biggest in SE asia.

Two giant alliance hubs with low O&D is not a guaranteed formula for success. See ATL-PVG.

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 20):
If it does well I could see AA starting LAX or ORD with the 789's.

LAX-PVG deja vu ? Not to mention directly competing against CX.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:54 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 19):
The point remains that CX's ORD-HKG by following the NRT-KIX-TPE-HKG corridor is definitely longer than the polar one that UA takes, which incidentally has less headwinds too. The curvatures within PRC doesn't add up to be longer than over Japan. I'm really curious to what the rationale is.

You tell me? Maybe they don't want to pay Russian and Chinese overflight fees?
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flyinghippo
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 14):
You definitely aren't going to be flying great circle routes through the PRC. Actually, CX ORD usually avoids Chinese airspace, and makes the dogleg turn around the Taiwan Strait.

I wonder why they do that. JFK-HKG flies over PRC airspace...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:30 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 22):
Two giant alliance hubs with low O&D is not a guaranteed formula for success. See ATL-PVG.

You cant seriously compare these two routes to one another. HKG is a much higher fare market and the alliance ties between CX and AA are far stronger than MU and DL. The connecting markets available from HKG also far outnumber those at PVG.

If anything I look at ATL-PVG is a red flag for DFW-PVG. Comparing ATL-PVG and DFW-HKG is apples and oranges.
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jetblue1965
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:42 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 25):

High fare but low volume. A random search of LGA-DFW-HKG just now showed 7.0cpm fares (inc taxes)
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:44 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 26):
High fare but low volume. A random search of LGA-DFW-HKG just now showed 7.0cpm fares (inc taxes)

Im well aware. DFW-HKG is around 50 PDEW. It will probably grow to 60-70 PDEW as is customary with new routes starting.

But youre random search isnt going to give any indication of if this route will rise or fall. Truth is, none of us know. Its only been the first week. The dynamics are there for success, its just a matter of if it pans out.
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zeke
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:12 am

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
From the westbound flight paths on flightaware, it either goes over PEK or cuts through South Korea, so I guess ICN and TPE are viable diversion points in case China says no.

And how does the aircraft then go from ICN or TPE to HKG ? You are looking at at least an hour to turn around an aircraft plus terminal area delays on arrival into HKG, it is not exactly like the crew have a bunch of spare flight and duty time available.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 8):
AA flies to DFW in the summer time and ORD in the winter time. This isn't their first rodeo with bad weather, I'm sure they'll be fine.

Come back to me when they recover their first aircraft from China. This is not NA with alternate airports everywhere, same ATC system, AA ground support everywhere, AA fuel contracts in place, AA maintenance contracts in place, ground support contracts in place, and no need for visas for all the passengers and crew.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 15):
That's most interesting because UA's ORD-HKG service consistently goes over PEK airspace, and judging from recent flights, is consistently shorter than CX's service, both by distance and by flight time.

The stranger thing is that CX's YYZ-HKG goes over PEK all the time, so it's not like they have trouble requesting access.

CX does both routes, the last few days is no something to try and build a trend from, as we have just switched from ETOPS to EDTO. Also know one of the reasons for a southerly route recently was a MEL issue that prevented polar route being flown.

Most of the plans seem to be around 15 hrs regardless of the route be flown, if actual times are greater, it would be arrival delays. We have had 40 minute flow control into HKG during the week at various times.

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 21):

I am very well aware of those fuel and duty limits, seems many are not. The problem with just those 3 alternates is that in typhoon conditions often all 4 airports can be subject to the same conditions. KHH often also is closed, as it runs out of space on the ground, TPE is down to a single runway. MFM can be seen from HKG, anything hitting HKG hits MFM, precision approach only available in one direction at MFM, very limited parking. Recovering a aircraft from MFM in a typhoon is not easy either, the ferries can stop running.
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DTWLAX
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 20):
If it does well I could see AA starting LAX or ORD with the 789's

Going up against CX at LAX that operates 4 flights a day??
I do not think that will happen.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:46 am

I think it's safe to say that you can't judge an airlines performance for a single week on a new route. Pretty much a non issue considering AA has stated its a long term investment and build up.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 28):
CX does both routes, the last few days is no something to try and build a trend from, as we have just switched from ETOPS to EDTO. Also know one of the reasons for a southerly route recently was a MEL issue that prevented polar route being flown.

Most of the plans seem to be around 15 hrs regardless of the route be flown, if actual times are greater, it would be arrival delays. We have had 40 minute flow control into HKG during the week at various times.

Thanks for the specifics.
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AAplat4life
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:50 am

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 20):
Being the longest AA route by a good margin, it will definitely be a popular route to use SWU's on (sort of how ORD-DEL used to be). So it could be possible that the flight will lose money, but increase loyalty among EXP's who travel to HKG, resulting in more revenue elsewhere.

That would be a business decision hard to quantify and would not hold up over time if mangers are acting rationally. If the flight is losing money with the 77W, then the premium traffic is not going to be there. That would be an awful lot of money and resources to increase loyalty among EXPs, particularly for an industry that specializes in alienating its customers. If premium is not selling, then this route will probably need to go 789.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 22):
Incidentally, it's also their only NRT service with no competition currently or historically.

Correct, but the same holds true for many international routes out of DFW, and that is one of the reason they work for AA.

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 11):
The AA product offering on the 77W is very competitive with the CX onboard product. In fact the Business Class seats are nearly identical products. I doubt many premium DFW originating pax would fly to ORD for a CX flight when they can fly on a brand-new AA 77W DFW-HKG.

I saw the main point being that the length of the DFW-HGK flight makes it a hard one to do profitable, and the secondary point being that AA's soft product is not comparable. However, I don't see AA starting ORD-HKG as a substitute for DFW, because ORD would not work for AA. It would have to compete against both CX and UA out of ORD, and AA and CX do not have that strong of a tie up yet to coordinate their flights out of the same market. Accordingly, I don't see AA starting up LAX-HKG with 3 CX flights a day on that route.
 
n92r03
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 17):
I suspect that with MIA and a number of destinations along the coast from Boston to Key West to McAllen, AA knows a thing or two on how to deal with disruptions caused by hurricanes, including long-haul flights from Europe and South America.
Quoting 777stl (Reply 8):
AA flies to DFW in the summer time and ORD in the winter time. This isn't their first rodeo with bad weather, I'm sure they'll be fine.

T-storms and winter problems are one thing when you are close to home with plenty of resources all around. It is a whole other ballgame when you are thousands of miles away in a country that is not too helpful in these scenarios (see the recent CX issues), and you have one plane and limited resources.

That said, I wish AA nothing but good luck and props to them for being the first carrier from the US to fly the 77W.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 28):
I am very well aware of those fuel and duty limits, seems many are not. The problem with just those 3 alternates is that in typhoon conditions often all 4 airports can be subject to the same conditions. KHH often also is closed, as it runs out of space on the ground, TPE is down to a single runway. MFM can be seen from HKG, anything hitting HKG hits MFM, precision approach only available in one direction at MFM, very limited parking. Recovering a aircraft from MFM in a typhoon is not easy either, the ferries can stop running.

Amen to that.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: How Is AA Doing In HKG In Its First Week?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 21):
AA cant carry any more fuel than it does currently. The issue is the high fuel density at DFW. DFW is unable to cold soak the fuel. It causes the tanks to be full before the maximum aircraft capacity. There are also MTOW issues with it being such a long flight from DFW. To carry extra fuel, a lot of revenue would need to bumped.

The lack of available alternates is a huge issue. With FAR 117 duty hour rules, fuel and go diversions are nearly impossible for the DFW-HKG route. The only AA approved alternates for B777-300 in that part of the world are MFM, KHH and TPE.

What temperature is the fuel uplifted at DFW?
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.

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