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OA260
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BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:12 pm

Looks quite smart. The proof will be in the testing.


British Airways has unveiled the new cabin interior that will soon be installed across its short-haul fleet.

Featuring slimmer charcoal-grey leather seating, the design will allow BA to add extra seats in its Euro Traveller economy cabin.

As Business Traveller reported last year (see news, December 2013), the slimline seats are manufactured by B/E Aerospace, indicating the likelihood that BA will reduce the seat pitch in Club Europe (business) from 34 to 30 inches, the same legroom as in economy.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...eils-new-short-haul-cabin-interior


http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/banewinterior_zps4a0f91da.jpg

[Edited 2014-06-16 06:16:44]
 
seansasLCY
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:37 pm

The seats look good and some of the short haul planes really need refitting but I don't like the sound of 30" seat pitch especially in CE.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
As Business Traveller reported last year (see news, December 2013), the slimline seats are manufactured by B/E Aerospace, indicating the likelihood that BA will reduce the seat pitch in Club Europe (business) from 34 to 30 inches, the same legroom as in economy.

I've flown the slimline seat a few times on LH/LX and now with BA, I can confidently say that EU network carrier Y is the worst in the skies, by far. No amount of crappy catering can make these seats comfortable, or offset the lack of wifi/IFE/in seat power.

[Edited 2014-06-16 06:47:53]
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SKAirbus
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:49 pm

Considering the short distances flown, the seats look pretty nice... I like how BA have customised them especially.. Many airlines just throw in standard seats.

We'll see how they are received by the customers but as BA say, they have to compete better with LCCs so need to be increasing capacity on their flights somehow.
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insightAVIATION
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:01 pm

I will miss the old BA cabin, even though it sometimes didn't look as new as LH. Such agreat seat pitch and so comfy.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
As Business Traveller reported last year (see news, December 2013), the slimline seats are manufactured by B/E Aerospace, indicating the likelihood that BA will reduce the seat pitch in Club Europe (business) from 34 to 30 inches, the same legroom as in economy.

How can you deduce the seat pitch from who manufactures them ? You can't its just a total guess.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
As Business Traveller reported last year (see news, December 2013), the slimline seats are manufactured by B/E Aerospace, indicating the likelihood that BA will reduce the seat pitch in Club Europe (business) from 34 to 30 inches, the same legroom as in economy.

That's a curious line. I fail to see why the seat manufacturer choice makes it likely that seat pitch will be reduced.

I thought the table looks quite nice! I'm also interested in seeing what the tablet holder looks like without a tablet on it.

Quite an elegant look. I will miss the current seats, I've always found them very comfortable.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
seansasLCY
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 6):
I thought the table looks quite nice! I'm also interested in seeing what the tablet holder looks like without a tablet on it.

Quite an elegant look. I will miss the current seats, I've always found them very comfortable.


From the pictures on business Traveler magazine, the tablet holder is putting half your case in the raised seat pocket which acts as tablet holder.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:05 pm

Like the make over,BUT stealing four inches a 3+ hours flight, you are gonna notice,seems very mean.
Would be nice if they upped the menu offering in CE at the same time.
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ClassicLover
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:29 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 7):
From the pictures on business Traveler magazine, the tablet holder is putting half your case in the raised seat pocket which acts as tablet holder.

Yes, it does actually!

The new figures are below for seat pitch and recline...

Airbus A319 / A320 / A321
Club Europe 30" / 30" / 30"
Euro Traveller 29" / 30" / 30"

Seat recline
Club Europe reduces from 4.5" to 3"
Euro Traveller reduces from 4.5" to 2"
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
bluesky73
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:10 pm

Seats look nice but with pitch the same as Ryanair and only one inch more than Easyjet I can see BA loosing more customers. As a 6ft 4 guy that reduction in pitch is going to make me think twice about booking with BA.
I will give the seat a try of course but not holding out much hope.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 10):
Seats look nice but with pitch the same as Ryanair and only one inch more than Easyjet I can see BA loosing more customers.

To whom though? Just about everyone in the EU is equally dreadful short/medium haul
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offloaded
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:41 pm

We sell a lot of premium product and the 30" pitch in CE is a disgrace. I have already had several complaints, and sent a couple off to BA. Of course anyone who gives a damn is long since gone from BA, so I don't expect a response any time soon.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
flyingthe757
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
o amount of crappy catering can make these seats comfortable, or offset the lack of wifi/IFE/in seat power.

BA installing WiFi on the European fleet are they not?
 
audidudi
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:59 pm

I believe that Club Europe will become 2-2 instead of 3-3 (with the middle seat turned into a table) however, which will be a great improvement!
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting audidudi (Reply 14):
I believe that Club Europe will become 2-2 instead of 3-3 (with the middle seat turned into a table) however, which will be a great improvement!

This is the configuration at the moment, it's 2-2. There's no change there really.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
bluesky73
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
To whom though? Just about everyone in the EU is equally dreadful short/medium haul

BA lose more customers to Easyjet and Ryanair as pitch is now same apart from extra baggage allowance given by BA there won't be any difference now between BA and UK/euro LCCs - that my 2 cents anyway.

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 13):
BA installing WiFi on the European fleet are they not?

Yes they are or at least in advanced talks.

http://www.britishairwaysnews.com/in...-available-in-european-skies/3313/
 
laca773
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:02 pm

I'm shocked they will reduce the pitch in C/CE to the same of Y/ET. That doesn't make any sense. People don't sit in C/CE just to get an upgraded meal we all no that! What were they thinking when they decided to go with this? Is this there way to eventually justify eliminating C/CE?
Will these same a/c fly the longer sectors of 3+ hours or will they have a subfleet for the these?
 
rutankrd
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 17):
I'm shocked they will reduce the pitch in C/CE to the same of Y/ET. That doesn't make any sense. People don't sit in C/CE just to get an upgraded meal we all no that! What were they thinking when they decided to go with this? Is this there way to eventually justify eliminating C/CE?
Will these same a/c fly the longer sectors of 3+ hours or will they have a subfleet for the these?
BA Eurofleet operate rather few 3+ hour sectors in reality.

And as for Club Europe fully flexible fares most of that hefty uplift is upfront payment towards those beloved Avios Miles !

[Edited 2014-06-16 11:29:30]
 
mysterzip
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:32 pm

It seems as if they're replacing the current configuration with a similar one, according to the pictures. The 2x2 is a bit misleading. They're still using a three-seater, just don't use the middle seat, like in the current configuration. The seat overall seems to be better quality, but definitely lacks the quality of the likes of LH, much less its American counterparts.

I'm not impressed by BA's premium overhalls (not that I fly anything premium in the first place). A380 - same Club World, 787 - same Club World. Oh wait, they did change it - they only have one seat in the middle instead of two. Let's go and fly them!

Having said that, BA's offerings aren't bad, I'm just afraid their competition will run them over and BA will be forced to play catch-up. As you can tell, my feelings are a bit mixed.
 
rutankrd
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:48 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 17):

I'm shocked they will reduce the pitch in C/CE to the same of Y/ET. That doesn't make any sense. People don't sit in C/CE just to get an upgraded meal we all no that! What were they thinking when they decided to go with this? Is this there way to eventually justify eliminating C/CE?
Will these same a/c fly the longer sectors of 3+ hours or will they have a subfleet for the these?

BTW a product similar to US domestic First in Europe went the way of the dinosaurs 30 +years ago and BA were among the leading carriers to adopt the Club concept which is really just full fare Y+.
 
runway23
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 18):
BA Eurofleet operate rather few 3+ hour sectors in reality.

There are quite a few actually the likes of LED, IST, ATH, seasonal flights to Greek islands, Turkey/Canaries from LGW.

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 19):

It seems as if they're replacing the current configuration with a similar one, according to the pictures. The 2x2 is a bit misleading. They're still using a three-seater, just don't use the middle seat, like in the current configuration. The seat overall seems to be better quality, but definitely lacks the quality of the likes of LH, much less its American counterparts.

Not quite, the existing configuration is 34" seat pitch and the left hand side of the plane seats do get wider (and a small gap created between the two seats) compared to the right hand side where the middle seat is just blocked.

It seems that by all means it will be 30" and no more extra width from now on. CE has pretty much lost whatever little it had going for it at this point.
 
rutankrd
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 21):
There are quite a few actually the likes of LED, IST, ATH, seasonal flights to Greek islands, Turkey/Canaries from LGW.

Did I say none ?

Istanbul sees a 763 and one 320.
Athens sees a 763 as well
Larnaca also sees a 763
Tel Aviv is Midhaul 321 and long haul wide body
Moscow is long haul fleet.

Fact is BAs Eastern Europe network is tiny against the might of Lufthansa and what routes there are have rarely more than a single daily rotation.
Its simply not a market BA seem to value much and whats more never have.

As for the Greek Isles well they are holiday flights catered for as such and competing against the usual suspects
Again up front its the reward packages and lounge access that are differentiators - At a cost !

And Gatwick operations are targeting a differing market segment and already use some of the higher density ex bmi 319s !
 
mysterzip
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 21):
It seems that by all means it will be 30" and no more extra width from now on. CE has pretty much lost whatever little it had going for it at this point.

And that loss of space is a big, big shame. I think the people behind this change don't have a lot of money backing the launch of the new CE. I know BA is trying to make short-haul profitable, but this is not the way, in my opinion.

Maybe BA is investing into two CE? One for medium-haul like TLV / LED / MOW? The other, to maximize flexibility, short-haul/domestic?
 
rutankrd
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:39 pm

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 23):
And that loss of space is a big, big shame. I think the people behind this change don't have a lot of money backing the launch of the new CE. I know BA is trying to make short-haul profitable, but this is not the way, in my opinion.

Again its not the seat but the other ancillaries and so called benefits of Club Europe notably fully flexible open end and "free" changes, lounge access, yes a cheap meal and booze and more importantly those avios miles !
All included in that hefty fare uplift from standard Economy rates.

BTW whilst a few are commenting on the loss of pitch inches actually these new seats have been sculpted far more than older thicker seats and actually give more free space where its needed and thats at the knee and below !

And having no seat back IFE with those terrible boxes under the seats further helps in the comfort factor imho.
 
runway23
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 24):
Again its not the seat but the other ancillaries and so called benefits of Club Europe notably fully flexible open end and "free" changes, lounge access, yes a cheap meal and booze and more importantly those avios miles !
All included in that hefty fare uplift from standard Economy rates.

The avios points are not the expense you make them out to be. Certainly compared to ET. Take an example of a heavy business route under 500 miles, the cheapest fare in economy will earn 500 avios, whereas a CE will earn 750 avios.

I hope you also realise that many CE fares are not flexible and can be had for a 50-100£ upfare.

The value of CE at this stage is to support the long-haul operation and CE is truly only profitable on a O&D basis on a very select few routes that could be counted on the fingers of both hands.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 24):
And having no seat back IFE with those terrible boxes under the seats further helps in the comfort factor imho.

BA has missed big time in not installing USB or power ports on these reconfigured aircraft. Though the cost of wiring electric wires around the aircraft must have been prohibitive.

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 23):
Maybe BA is investing into two CE? One for medium-haul like TLV / LED / MOW? The other, to maximize flexibility, short-haul/domestic?

TLV and DME are already Club World with a mix of wide body and ex-BD 321s.

LED is up against limited competition and is a bit shorter than DME without as much premium mix.

If there is one route screaming for CW at this point (and mainly due to competitive forces) it is IST.
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting audidudi (Reply 14):
I believe that Club Europe will become 2-2 instead of 3-3 (with the middle seat turned into a table) however, which will be a great improvement!

There's no need for a table. Just leave the middle seat empty as almost all carriers already do for their European business class product (and on aircraft with 4-or 5-abreast seating, they only sell one seat in the 2-abreast seat sections).

I prefer the KLM type of product where, in addition to always having an empty seat next to you, you also get 2 or 3 inches of additional pitch. When all the rows with the extra pitch aren't needed for business class, which is usually the case, they're sold as "Economy Comfort" at a small surcharge over any Y class fare.
 
flyforever
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 10):
Seats look nice but with pitch the same as Ryanair and only one inch more than Easyjet I can see BA loosing more customers. As a 6ft 4 guy that reduction in pitch is going to make me think twice about booking with BA.
I will give the seat a try of course but not holding out much hope.

Agree with you even if I'm 5 ft 7 only so I'm still fitting with 30" but I don't see the point of booking with BA rather than Ryanair or EasyJet at this point, in particular from Gatwick where EayJet is well-positioned
 
mysterzip
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:41 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 25):

Regarding the routes, I should have thought before just throwing out cities on here  
Regarding the seats to TLV, is BA advertising those as Club World? I thought it would be still considered Club Europe.

Regarding the iPads, are they going to be offered as an IFE? I think that would be a nice touch. I believe they offer them already on OpenSkies. Here's to hoping...

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 24):

Got it. I guess that would explain the lack of amenities... Different markets, different needs.
 
flyingthe757
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:33 am

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 28):

Mid haul aircraft are sold as club world, they have full lie flat beds in the club cabin.
 
Prost
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:55 am

Color me a bit confused. On these boards, the US carriers got pilloried for advertising their lie flat seats/direct aisle, etc., but then when their customers connected to a domestic leg, they were faced with buy on board and less than luxurious travel experience.

Am I mistaken that the travel experience isn't that much better travelling within Europe? I'm not posting this as Euro bashing, so if my question comes across that way, please forgive me. I would have just expected a different front of the cabin experience from a carrier with BA's sterling reputation.
 
edina
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:57 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 25):

BA has missed big time in not installing USB or power ports on these reconfigured aircraft. Though the cost of wiring electric wires around the aircraft must have been prohibitive.

The first 10 A320s in the G-EUUx series were fitted with 2 pin EU/US seat power system, with 4 power points in each row on CE converter seats on delivery, the same A320s that are fitted with basic IFE systems (shown on ATH, IST, DME, LCA). The seat power is still there, and the system is usually switched on, irrespective of the route, but very rarely used, even on the longer routes, despite crew promoting the system in the early years. Despite working on these aircraft since delivery, I have seen seat power used maybe 5-6 times,month never more than one person per flight using it.
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
r2rho
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:26 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 24):
whilst a few are commenting on the loss of pitch inches actually these new seats have been sculpted far more than older thicker seats and actually give more free space where its needed and thats at the knee and below !

You are just repeating the marketing slogan that all previous airlines stated when they refurbished their cabins. But the reality I feel all over Europe is that both nominal as well as effective seat pitch have been reduced on all legacies throughout the past couple years.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:42 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 21):
There are quite a few actually the likes of LED, IST, ATH, seasonal flights to Greek islands

The number of scheduled short-haul flights of three hours or longer operated out of LHR by BA Airbus aircraft is just eight:

Two daily to ATH with a flight time of 3 hrs 35 mins (plus two flights operated by 763s)

One daily to IST with a flight time of 3 hrs 45 mins (plus two operated by 763s)

One daily to KBP with a flight time of 3 hrs 10 mins

One daily to LED with a flight time of 3 hrs 15 mins

Two daily to OTP with a flight time of 3 hrs 15 mins

One daily to SOF with a flight time of 3 hrs 5 mins

All of the above flights except that to LED are operated by A 320s. The daily LED flight is flown with a 321.;

To put the above eight flights into context of BA's total short-haul operations compare them with the 26 weekday flights BA operates between LON and EDI.

There are currently no scheduled flights to the Greek or Turkish holiday resorts from LHR. The Saturday and / or Sunday flights operated by BA from LHR to BJV, DLM, KLX, KOS, LXS, PVK and RHO are all summer season charter flights. They are operated mainly for Mark Warner Holidays. However some of these destinations will have twice weekly scheduled flights from Summer 2015. These will be primarily carrying British Airways Holidays customers on IT packages.

Many LGW flights are currently operated by ex-BD 319s. They are already configured for 144 passengers (unlike the BA 319s that will be reconfigured and currently have 132 seats). The remainder are operated by 734s and a single ex-BD 320. However the 734s have a limited shelf life. They will be replaced by more ex-BD 319s from LHR and by ten newly leased 320s scheduled for delivery between next October and next March. So reconfiguration is not likely to impact flights from LGW in any significant way.
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:28 pm

Having had a chance to sit and test the seats, they honestly aren't as bad as I expected with regards to the leg room and do look rather smart. Being over 6ft tall, I was expecting the worse but was pleasantly surprised, even with the recline, that I didn't feel squashed in. Certainly felt better than my last long haul economy seat experience.
 
seansasLCY
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:36 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 33):
The number of scheduled short-haul flights of three hours or longer operated out of LHR by BA Airbus aircraft is just eight

HEL is also operated twice a day by A320 aircraft and is scheduled at 3hrs outbound and 3hr10 on the return.
 
bluesky73
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting speedbird2155 (Reply 34):
Having had a chance to sit and test the seats, they honestly aren't as bad as I expected with regards to the leg room and do look rather smart. Being over 6ft tall, I was expecting the worse but was pleasantly surprised, even with the recline, that I didn't feel squashed in. Certainly felt better than my last long haul economy seat experience.

Thanks, I hope my thoughts are he same. I hope they have been clever and contoured extra room at knees.
Still would have like to see 31inch but suppose we live in a bean counter accountants world. I don't have salary/privilege to fly C/CE but think they have been tight (literally) with pitch in C/CE. Cattle class like me can't moan much but as I said earlier was happy to pay extra fair with BA over LCCs. I'll reserve judgement until I've tried of course.

I can see BA probably see current wastage on existing SH fleet as I always try to get seats 4-14 (34inch pitch) on an A320.
 
whiskeyhotel
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:30 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 30):
Color me a bit confused. On these boards, the US carriers got pilloried for advertising their lie flat seats/direct aisle, etc., but then when their customers connected to a domestic leg, they were faced with buy on board and less than luxurious travel experience.

Am I mistaken that the travel experience isn't that much better travelling within Europe? I'm not posting this as Euro bashing, so if my question comes across that way, please forgive me. I would have just expected a different front of the cabin experience from a carrier with BA's sterling reputation.

Intra-Europe business class is a pretty lousy hard product compared to what carriers in most other parts of the world offer for regional/domestic business class (which is really what most 2-cabin F is in the U.S.). Most European carriers have pretty short stage-lengths on their regional routes, due to the size of Europe and positioning of many of the hubs.

On Lufthansa, regional business class is particularly bad, considering the tight pitch and slimline seats. I've had the great displeasure of sampling their product from FRA and MUC. Thankfully, most of the sectors were reasonably short (like FRA-ARN and FRA-MXP). Regrettably, it looks like BA decided to follow LH's lead. For their Band 3 and 4 flights to Eastern/Southern Europe, that's a long time in 30" pitch, especially if you paid for a premium cabin. I understand that the regional configured 767s won't be refitted, but their days in the fleet are obviously numbered. Given the choice between a short-hop in a bad business class cabin from FRA/MUC, or a longer slog from LHR, the choice would be easy.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:24 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 35):
HEL is also operated twice a day by A320 aircraft and is scheduled at 3hrs outbound and 3hr10 on the return

Thanks.

I looked at the outward flight, LHR-HEL (BA794). It has a scheduled departure time of 11:35 local and a scheduled arrival time of 16:30 local. So the scheduled flight time is 2 hrs 55 mins.

However after overnighting the return flight (BA795) (that I did not check) departs at 07:55. It is scheduled back at LHR at 09:05 for a scheduled flight time of, as you say, 3 hrs 10 mins.

So if we include this rotation we are effectively looking at just 9 BA short-haul rotations a day with an elapsed time of 3 hours plus per flight. Of these all but one are 320 operated.

On another tack have BA confirmed the revised configuration of the 320? It is currently 162 C / Y except for the six ex-BD 320s that already have 168 seats all with a 30" pitch . As far as I know the pitch of the rear 14 rows on the rest of the fleet is also already 30". So most BA Y Class 320 passengers have been flying in 30" pitch seats ever since BA first installed slim-back seats seven or eight years ago. So with the 320 we may be looking only at a reduction in the front 13 rows from the current 34".

I have seen it suggested elsewhere that the new 320 configuration for all the BA 320 fleet will be 168 seats. This looks to be correct as a reduction fro0m 34" to 30" pitch in the forward rows would only provide enough space for one additional six-seat row 30" pitch row with more than adequate space left over for a wider pitch adjacent to the over-wing emergency doors.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 38):
I have seen it suggested elsewhere that the new 320 configuration for all the BA 320 fleet will be 168 seats

Yes.
51 A320 will go from 162 to 168 seats.
22 A319 will go from 132 to 143 seats
and
11 A321 will go from 188 to 205 seats.
The BMI aircraft are already there.
 
bluesky73
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:16 pm

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...eils-new-short-haul-cabin-interior

The original link says 95 airbuses to be refitted. Is the link wrong as your figures (Tristarsteve) total 84 for refit? Are they counting 33 A319s?

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 39):

51 A320 will go from 162 to 168 seats.
22 A319 will go from 132 to 143 seats
and
11 A321 will go from 188 to 205 seats.
The BMI aircraft are already there.

They mention first aircraft being refitted this week. Does anyone know reg of first aircraft in for refit and where- Preswick, other?
How long does average refit of A320 take? The link says it will take a year to complete so is that 4 days for refit of each aircraft for approx total of 90 airbuses or are they refitting more at a time?
Are there are other interior mods/improvement too as part of refurb?

Sorry lots of questions but interested to know  
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3691
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:58 pm

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 40):
Are they counting 33 A319s?

Yes sorry finger trouble.
Should be 33 A219 for total 95 conversions.

Note the ex BMI A319 and A320 are already at this config, but with different seats.
I don't know if they are getting new seats.
 
Ned Kelly
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:14 am

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

I don't really care very much how these new seats look, it's how they feel on your backside on a 3+ hour flight that matters to me. I live in Istanbul and often fly IST-LON and have flown on TK, PGS & BA on all aircraft types operated on these routes and I must say the BA 763 flight was the nicest and most comfortable of all. I usually fly in Y so the extra seats up front won't make much difference to me. I have often thought about paying the extra for the upgrade on BA, but now that there will not be any difference in legroom, I think I will stick to Y and pocket the cash and just hope the middle seat is unoccupied as happens sometimes.

p.s.VV701: I didn't realise that BA now use the 763 twice daily on the LHR-IST, I thought that was just on Saturday's. Thanks for the info.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3691
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:20 pm

Quoting Ned Kelly (Reply 42):
p.s.VV701: I didn't realise that BA now use the 763 twice daily on the LHR-IST, I thought that was just on Saturday's

You are right!
BA676 daily B767
BA678 B767 Sat only, A320 other days
BA680 A320
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2407
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:41 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 39):
51 A320 will go from 162 to 168 seats.
22 A319 will go from 132 to 143 seats
and
11 A321 will go from 188 to 205 seats

Wow, how times have changed. A few years ago only charter airlines would put 200+ seats in an A321 and 144 seats is the max number of seats allowed in an A319 with only one pair of overwing exits, IIRC.

Will be interesting to see how business class passengers respond to the new cabin layout.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3067
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 44):
Wow, how times have changed. A few years ago only charter airlines would put 200+ seats in an A321 and 144 seats is the max number of seats allowed in an A319 with only one pair of overwing exits, IIRC.

Will be interesting to see how business class passengers respond to the new cabin layout.

They can respond how they like (shuck it) however this is the way forward for BA in order to increase capacity by up to 6% within existing resources and slot constraints.And improve both revenue and potential profitability.

Anyway what alternatives within Europe do you have even LH are operating their 32x fleets at the higher capacity and AF have similar density with some 32x models have rigid non recliners !
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1501
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:15 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 45):

Anyway what alternatives within Europe do you have even LH are operating their 32x fleets at the higher capacity and AF have similar density with some 32x models have rigid non recliners !

Just checked on seatguru.com which shows LH A320 with 156 seats plus 18 blocked out middle seats in J totalling 174 and a 30" pitch and Air France [European configuration] with 150 seats plus 15 blocked out middle seats in J totalling 165 but with 32 inch pitch. So not sure how AF manages a better pitch than LH and BA but all three are presumably banking on the newer slimmer seats to keep us taller people who need to put their legs somewhere 'comfortable'.
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:50 am

Just for a bit of perspective; some comparisons with the correct configurations

A319
AF - 142 (Domestic) / 138 (Europe)
AY - 138
AZ - 138
IB - 141
BA - 144
LH - 138
LX - 138
SN - 141

A320
AF - 178 (Domestic) / 165 (Europe)
AY - 165
AZ - 165
IB - 171
BA - 168
LH - 168
LX - 168
SN - 168

A321
AF - 212 (Domestic) / 200 (Europe)
AY - 209 (Sharklets) / 196 (Winglets)
AZ - 200
IB - 200
BA - 205
LH - 200
LX - 200

Seat counts only tell part of the story, as space is also determined by number of toilets, galleys and stowages installed which do vary. Finnair have large stowages/closets installed on their A320s which displaces 3 seats, so they are not really providing any more space than the 168 seaters, and their 196 seat A321s similarly have much more stowages/closets than the 209 seater.

While new BA seat counts are higher, they are broadly in line with their main Western European legacy competitors. The other carriers have already made this switch, so BA is only now playing catch-up with the new denser configurations. For all the airlines concerned, it was too much of an opportunity to pass up to increase capacity by approx. 6% without adding a single flight. Paid Business Class loadings have tumbled in the 15 years since BA started to take delivery of their A319/320/321 order to replace the 737/757 fleets, it's now common to be offered very cheap upgrade offers for as low as £39 one/way on short flights. I think all the above airlines have trouble justifying anything more luxurious than the above layouts these days in the light of fierce competition from each other and the LCCs... It's all about being able to offer a low unit cost unfortunately.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
lucce
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:12 pm

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:29 am

Unfortunately the 30" pitch is here to stay. But other airlines still provide more seat pitch in the business class cabin, as they should, because those seats are bought on convenience bases rather that price/schedule that is the deciding factor in economy. I'm not saying that price/schedule doesn't matter but that people buying business usually value on board experience more.

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 47):
LH - 200
LX - 200

Well, sort of. Actually it is 207 and 209 respectively since both have permanently blocked some seats in the front to fly with only 4 cabin crew. In UK this doesn't matter since they fly with 5 regardless. On the other hand, they save some space flying with only three lavatories...
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: BA Unveils New Short-haul Cabin Interior

Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:39 am

I really think people should try the new cabin before assuming it will be hideous.

I have sat in the new seats and they are fantastic. Very comfortable and the legroom felt much better than the old seats. The seats are a little narrower than the converter seats, but I seriously didn't feel this was an issue. The clunky old converter seats are stuck in the past, and it is time we moved with the times. The european shorthaul market in the UK is not what it was in 1995!!!

Kind regards

HUYfan

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