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evolv
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YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:59 pm

YYC starts ops on the new runway this coming Saturday. Rumour has it a Middle Eastern carrier may fly an A380 in for the opening. YYC has sent a media advisory indicating time and location to meet for transport on a bus to an area for unobstructed views.

Can anyone substantiate the rumour?

[Edited 2014-06-24 16:14:29]
 
DaBuzzard
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RE: YYC 2nd Runway Opening June 28th

Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:07 pm

Can't help on the A380 rumour but you might want to edit your title. ..it will be the 4th runway at YYC  
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:04 am

Yeah, do edit. I'm not sure WHAT is true or what is the rumor or what is false. Give us straight facts, not fantasy. Since when does YYC need a fourth runway when even HKG is debating a third?
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 2):
Yeah, do edit. I'm not sure WHAT is true or what is the rumor or what is false. Give us straight facts, not fantasy. Since when does YYC need a fourth runway when even HKG is debating a third?

Because of the configuration, YYC does not really have 3 runways currently but rather 1.5. 8/26 cannot be used while any other runway is in use, 11/29 and 17R/35L intersect so that causes delays. The new runway actually gives the capacity of 2 runways, with the ability to fly simultaneous ILS to both which will really help the YYC runway capacity issues.

And rumor has it that the Calgary airport authority and ATC will have a WS plane be first to land on the new runway. Its supposedly all been arranged already. (And by rumor I mean this has already been communicated to all applicable parties, so unless something falls through this is what will happen, not that it really matters who is first to land on it.)

[Edited 2014-06-24 18:08:57]
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Viscount724
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 3):
Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 2):
Yeah, do edit. I'm not sure WHAT is true or what is the rumor or what is false. Give us straight facts, not fantasy. Since when does YYC need a fourth runway when even HKG is debating a third?


Because of the configuration, YYC does not really have 3 runways currently but rather 1.5. 8/26 cannot be used while any other runway is in use, 11/29 and 17R/35L intersect so that causes delays. The new runway actually gives the capacity of 2 runways, with the ability to fly simultaneous ILS to both which will really help the YYC runway capacity issues.

The new runway will help avoid the following types of situations which cost operators a lot of money in delays and wasted fuel. Intersecting runways also create potential safety issues that the new parallel runway will avoid. It will also provide room for major YYC operators like WestJet to expand at Canada's 3rd busiest and fastest growing airport, where slots at peak times are now in short supply. Also have to remember that YYC's current 3rd runway (08/26) is only 6,200 ft. long and can only be used by smaller private and corporate airport due to length and noise abatement issues. I don't think it's ever used by airline aircraft, and the fact that the other two runways intersect limits flexibility when used simultaneously.

These random examples from the past few months from Transport Canada occurrence reports. Dozens of similar YYC reports every year that should largely end after the new runway opens.

Tower overshot a Sunwest Aviation Piper PA-31 (CNK1013) from Lloydminster, AB (CYLL) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) from 2 mile final runway 29 due to an Air Canada Rouge Airbus A319 (ROU1876) from Calgary, AB (CYYC) to Los Angeles, CA (KLAX) in position waiting for a British Airways Boeing 767 300 (BAW103) from London/ Heathrow (EGLL) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) landing runway 35L crossing to exit at C4. Separation was assured. Several aircraft delayed for departure. No other impact to operation.

An American Airlines Boeing 737 800 (AAL1037), from Dallas/Fort Worth, TX (KDFW) to Calgary, AB (CYYC), was given missed approach instructions 1 mile final of Runway 17R due to an Air Canada Embraer E190 (ACA215), from Calgary, AB (CYYC) to Vancouver, BC (CYVR), in position on Runway 17R waiting for an Albatros Aircraft Corp. Beech King Air 200 (VLC161), from Fort McMurray, AB (CYMM) to Calgary, AB (CYYC), landing on Runway 11. ACA215 was unable to depart in time to ensure runway separation. No other impact to operations.

A Jazz DHC 8 300 (JZA8169), from Edmonton, AB (CYEG) to Calgary, AB (CYYC), was overshot for Runway 17R by Tower on short final. A Sunwest Aviation Beech King Air B350 (CNK9899), from Kelowna, BC (CYLW) to Calgary, AB (CYYC), was landing on Runway 11 and would not be through the intersection in time. JZA8169 was unable to slow due to a strong tailwind that had resulted from a recent frontal passage. Wind 030/15G25. No other impact on operations.

A WestJet Boeing 737-800 (WJA2311) from Cancun, Mexico (MMUN) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was given missed approach instructions by the Tower while on short final for Runway 35L due to another WestJet Boeing 737-800 (WJA1470) from Calgary, AB (CYYC) to Palm Springs, CA (KPSP) that was slow to depart in front. A Sunwest Aviation Beech King Air B350 (CNK365Z) from Bonnyville, AB (CYBF) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was landing on runway 29 and was very slow on approach and to cross Runway 35L. WJA1470 was in position on Runway 35L and had to wait for CNK365Z to cross before takeoff clearance could be issued. No other impact on operations.

A Canadian North Boeing 737 300 (MPE1519) from Fort McKay, AB (CAL4) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was given missed approach instructions runway 35L at 1 mile final due to a WestJet Boeing 737 700 (WJA399) from Calgary, AB (CYYC) to Kelowna, BC (CYLW) in position and unable to depart due to a Sunwest Aviation Piper PA-31 (CNK1013) from Lloydminster, AB (CYLL) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) landing runway 29 and still in the intersection. No other impact to operations.

A Sunwest Aviation Beech 1900 (CNK4239) from Wabasca, AB (CEE5) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was overshot runway 35L due to inadequate intersection spacing with a Government of Canada, Department of National Defence Raytheon CT-156 Harvard II (VIKIN51) from Moose Jaw, SK (CYMJ) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) landing runway 29 at the same time. No other operational impact.

An Air Canada Embraer E190 (ACA1287) from Phoenix, AZ (KPHX) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was overshot runway 35L due to inadequate intersection spacing with an Air Georgian Beech 1900D (GGN7218) from Lethbridge, AB (CYQL) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) landing runway 29 at the same time. No other operational impact.

An Air Georgian Beech 1900D (GGN7230) from Medicine Hat, AB (CYXH) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was overshot runway 29 due to inadequate intersection spacing with an Air Canada Airbus A330-300 (ACA845) from Frankfurt (EDDF) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) landing runway 35L at the same time. No other operational impact.

A Westjet Encore DHC 8 402 (WEN3243) from Brandon, MB (CYBR) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) inbound to CYYC reported a medical emergency and requested EMS to be called out. A Jazz DHC 8 300 (JZA8147) from Edmonton, AB (CYEG) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was overshot runway 11 due to no converging runway spacing with WEN3243 landing runway 17R.

A WestJet Boeing 737 600 (WJA212) from Vancouver, BC (CYVR) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was overshot runway 35L for spacing. The aircraft in front was slower than expected landing runway 29 due to winds. Land and Hold Short Operations (LAHSO) unavailable due to crosswind.

A Jazz DHC 8 300 (JZA8159) from Edmonton, AB (CYEG) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was overshot runway 17R 1.5 mile final. A North Cariboo Air British Aerospace BAE 146 Series 200 (NCB516) from Edmonton, AB (CYEG) to Calgary, AB (CYYC) was very slow on approach runway 11 and after landing. No impact on operations.[/i]
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:07 am

WS makes more sense than a Middle Eastern rumor with no landing rights at YYC. Even so 77L makes the most sense.
Born and raised in Calgary, I only know the taxiway is unbelievably long.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
Viscount724
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:15 am

YYC newspaper report on the recent "open house" for visitors to see the new runway.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...on+runway+takes/9941668/story.html
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:15 am

Wow! Thanks for sharing! These reports are very informative! Yes, I can understand the problem caused by intersecting runways.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 3):
And rumor has it that the Calgary airport authority and ATC will have a WS plane be first to land on the new runway. Its supposedly all been arranged already. (And by rumor I mean this has already been communicated to all applicable parties, so unless something falls through this is what will happen, not that it really matters who is first to land on it.)

I'll be flying virtually all day on WS July 5th -- YVR-YYC / YYC-YYJ / YYJ-YVR.

So I'll have two chances to hit the runway.  
 
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Acey
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:35 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 8):
I'll be flying virtually all day on WS July 5th -- YVR-YYC / YYC-YYJ / YYJ-YVR.

So I'll have two chances to hit the runway.  

Both likely unsuccessful, as you're coming from/going west.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:26 pm

Very good news for YYC. A long time coming.

As for the middle eastern A380 rumor..... seriously? some people need a high five..............to the face............with a chair ..............!

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-06-27 09:44:52]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 9):

Both likely unsuccessful, as you're coming from/going west.

According to the tower controller I spoke with, they will use the new runway for landings in a south config and takeoffs in a north config unless demand requires simultaneous approaches, so he has a good shot of getting it on his arrival or his departure.
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opethfan
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 8):

Assuming you're not a WS pilot... do you have business in YYC or did WS book you to fly across across the Rockies to jump across the Strait in the opposite direction?
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:15 am

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 12):
Assuming you're not a WS pilot... do you have business in YYC or did WS book you to fly across across the Rockies to jump across the Strait in the opposite direction?

No -- I don't pilot for WS.

But I'll be on leave in Vancouver from Canada Day until July 6th. My employer needs "a known face" in both Calgary and Victoria and I'd like to get it over with in one day.

Thankfully, I have relatives in both cities and can depend on a home-cooked meal both places.

It's not supposed to make sense.   
 
cyeg66
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:31 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 11):
According to the tower controller I spoke with, they will use the new runway for landings in a south config and takeoffs in a north config unless demand requires simultaneous approaches, so he has a good shot of getting it on his arrival or his departure.

From day one, the runways will be used simultaneously.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:44 am

http://www.yyc.com/en-us/calgaryairp...rograms/aircraftactivityatyyc.aspx

West departures and arrivals will use the west runway, east arrivals and departures will use the east runway- traffic permitting... I assume that the heavy metal will always be using the longer runway ( the new eastern one?)
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:08 am

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 14):

From day one, the runways will be used simultaneously.

Ok. Things changed then. (Last time I was up in the tower was last October...)
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cyeg66
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:21 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 16):


Ok. Things changed then. (Last time I was up in the tower was last October...)

I have no doubt that you're right, but some delusions have successfully been swept aside since then (apparently), while others continue to dictate the direction in which we're headed. Mind-boggling. Only in Canada do we go one step forward only to mitigate the effects of the two we'd just taken backwards. [Cue: head hitting wall.] I won't elaborate.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
A346Dude
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:13 pm

The runway's been open for 13 minutes, was Westjet indeed the first arrival?
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
Viscount724
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 18):
The runway's been open for 13 minutes, was Westjet indeed the first arrival?

Recent news summary on a YYC radio station says the first flight from the new runway was Air Canada flight AC9, 763 YYC-NRT, scheduled departure time 1345.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA9
 
cyeg66
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:24 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 18):
The runway's been open for 13 minutes, was Westjet indeed the first arrival?

Believe so. It was supposed to be the inbound WS flight from YWG the first to land and the AC9 NRT departure the first to depart 35R. And so ends 70+ years of crossing runway ops at YYC. We'll now only see that on chinook wind days when we're forced to go sideways landing 29/26. Looking forward to those days already....
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
CYQL
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:32 pm

https://twitter.com/FlyYYC

First landing was WS169 from St. John's.

First takeoff was AC9 to Narita.

[Edited 2014-06-28 15:33:57]
 
Viscount724
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:40 pm

Quoting CYQL (Reply 21):
First landing was WS169 from St. John's.

WS169 from YYT arrived YYC at 1054 (scheduled arrival time 1112). Reports said the new runway wouldn't be open until 1400. Was that not correct?
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
WS169 from YYT arrived YYC at 1054 (scheduled arrival time 1112). Reports said the new runway wouldn't be open until 1400. Was that not correct?

It is not correct. The flight landed at 1405L since it diverted from YYT to YDF on the inbound and thus was delayed.
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Viscount724
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:05 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 23):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
WS169 from YYT arrived YYC at 1054 (scheduled arrival time 1112). Reports said the new runway wouldn't be open until 1400. Was that not correct?

It is not correct. The flight landed at 1405L since it diverted from YYT to YDF on the inbound and thus was delayed

Strange that WS arrival/departures info in their website is wrong. Doesn't show any delay, just the scheduled arrival time and "Arrived".
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:20 pm

DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/50/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W 788/789 E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 16):

Ok. Things changed then. (Last time I was up in the tower was last October...)
http://www.yyc.com/en-us/calgaryairp...rograms/aircraftactivityatyyc.aspx


Based on the link above, and as Cyeg66 was saying, they will be using the two runways the best way possible (similar to you guys in YYZ). Arrivals from the west land on the west runway, arrivals from the east on the east runway.

Wish YUL could do the same, but sadly, that is not the case. Criss cross galore in YUL !

P.S anyone catch the EK A380 ?   

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-06-28 17:53:27]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:46 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 26):
Based on the link above, and as Cyeg66 was saying, they will be using the two runways the best way possible (similar to you guys in YYZ). Arrivals from the west land on west runway, east arrivals land on the east runway.

Yes. this makes much more sense. The only problem I would see is complaints about noise from the new runway/airspace re config. I'm already hearing grumblings about it from people who live in the area. Hope we don't see YYC get slapped with a night curfew.
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A346Dude
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:18 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 27):
Yes. this makes much more sense. The only problem I would see is complaints about noise from the new runway/airspace re config. I'm already hearing grumblings about it from people who live in the area. Hope we don't see YYC get slapped with a night curfew.

How does the new runway affect ops at night? They can operate in exactly the same config at night as they did before.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
Viscount724
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:56 am

Video of the first landing, delayed WS169 from YYT, Canada's longest domestic nonstop (2,695 mi/2,342 nm), and the first takeoff immediately after the WS landing, AC9 to NRT, YYC's longest scheduled international nonstop (4.949 mi/4,301 nm). Very windy day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8zF0eh8jgE

[Edited 2014-06-28 18:58:09]

[Edited 2014-06-28 19:03:53]

[Edited 2014-06-28 19:04:38]
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:08 am

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 28):
How does the new runway affect ops at night? They can operate in exactly the same config at night as they did before.

The old runway approach and departure were mainly over a highway/river valley. The new one flies directly over residential areas.

The issue with the old config is that the airspace redesign brings airplanes over top of communities to the north of calgary that were originally not overflown with the old arrivals and departures.
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Whiteguy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:48 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 30):
The old runway approach and departure were mainly over a highway/river valley. The new one flies directly over residential areas.

The issue with the old config is that the airspace redesign brings airplanes over top of communities to the north of calgary that were originally not overflown with the old arrivals and departures.

Nothing has changed with the arrivals into YYC with the addition of the new runway. The arrivals were introduced last year. Like it was said before, they'll operate night ops the same as before.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 15):
http://www.yyc.com/en-us/calgaryairp...rograms/aircraftactivityatyyc.aspx

West departures and arrivals will use the west runway, east arrivals and departures will use the east runway- traffic permitting... I assume that the heavy metal will always be using the longer runway ( the new eastern one?)

If the heavies are east bound they'll use 35R/17L, if they're west bound 35L/17R.
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 31):
Nothing has changed with the arrivals into YYC with the addition of the new runway. The arrivals were introduced last year. Like it was said before, they'll operate night ops the same as before.

Interesting that you say that because I saw a whole bunch of changes with the final airspace redesign implementation a month and a bit ago, but perhaps that only affects Jets. What I do know is that because of the new noise issues there are petitions and community groups beginning to form in the areas north of Airdrie to protest the new arrivals and departure routes that bring new (to them) noise, and this started shortly after the final redesign procedural update.
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YYCSpotter
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:58 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 29):
Video of the first landing, delayed WS169 from YYT, Canada's longest domestic nonstop (2,695 mi/2,342 nm), and the first takeoff immediately after the WS landing, AC9 to NRT, YYC's longest scheduled international nonstop (4.949 mi/4,301 nm). Very windy day.

Interesting fact: The aircraft operating that flight was C-FIWS, the first B737NG to be delivered to WS. Other firsts:

First foreign carrier to take off from the runway: United Express (E170)- N861RW
First foreign carrier to land on the runway: US Airways (A319)- N821AW
First Widebody to Land on the runway: Air Transat (A332)- C-GPTS
First Propeller aircraft to take off from the runway: Air Georgian (B190)- C-GAAR
First Propeller aircraft to land on the runway: Westjet Encore (Q400)- C-FNEN

The airport authority was kind enough to set up a temporary spotting area for the local spotters, which was in a great location. For pictures from that area, here is an album on flickr that you can check out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/yycspotter/sets/72157645421002425/
 
cyeg66
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RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:21 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 31):
Nothing has changed with the arrivals into YYC with the addition of the new runway. The arrivals were introduced last year. Like it was said before, they'll operate night ops the same as before.

Correct, with one small change. Under normal circumstances, we will now start landing 35L/R from 6 am onward rather than 7 am.

As for noise in communities, I'm not really sure how the footprint has changed too much from before, more specifically, why there would all of a sudden be an uproar from outer communities. Planes are landing a little more than a mile farther east than they were before but that wouldn't have a huge impact. Particularly communities "north of Airdrie", planes aren't typically down in the weeds that far north of the airport so the noise wouldn't be significant. The STARS, and most importantly the bedposts, all changed last year. The most recent changes to the STARS involved the two down the east side, amended to reflect the 1.2 mile offset from the previous one (for 17R/35R). Again, this wouldn't increase noise by a factor of 10 for just anyone and their dog. Fact is NIMBY's just like to complain, period.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
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Acey
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

RE: YYC 4th Runway Opening June 28th

Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:34 am

Being very familiar with the area having lived there for a while, I'm pretty sure all these complaints are garbage, given where they're coming from. You've always been able to hear planes in Airdrie on the 17R final, they're dropping their gear right around there. I was hoping they'd be in south flow this morning so I could see exactly where 17L landers are in relation to residential areas. In north flow, only 732's and Mad Dogs are even audible. Everybody else is quiet enough, or already turned on course.
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