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N62NA
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PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:11 pm

To all those who said it would never happen.... bah!!

Looks like the first flight to EWR got there about 30 minutes late, not so bad considering it's EWR!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/R...0/history/20140630/1130Z/KPHF/KEWR
 
a318
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:13 pm

Well, it's technically V2 and not People Express.     
 
Rdh3e
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:15 pm

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
To all those who said it would never happen.... bah!!

How do we tell the difference between "People Express" flights and the rest of the flights that vision operates?

[Edited 2014-06-30 10:16:16]
 
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N62NA
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting a318 (Reply 1):
Well, it's technically V2 and not People Express.

True. But since it's generally accepted (though I hate it) that all those "United Express" and "Delta Connection" or whatever they are called flights are operated by the "name recognized" carrier as opposed to another airline masquerading as the "name recognized" carrier, we can extend the same deception in this case as well.  
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:35 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 2):
How do we tell the difference between "People Express" flights and the rest of the flights that vision operates?

The ones that are going into PHF vs the ones that are not.  
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:44 pm

How did they acquire EWR slots and how many did they get?
 
ouboy79
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:58 pm

Say what you will about your chances, at least we finally saw a start up get to the point of operating revenue flights. That's more than companies like CalPac have been able to say. More competition is needed after all this intense consolidation to ensure the Big 4 remain honest.
 
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enilria
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):
How did they acquire EWR slots and how many did they get?

Never seen an answer to this.

Good luck to them. With the existing route network they will need some.
 
175erj
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 6):

Except for the fact that a start-up is not operating revenue flights. Vision is operating the flights....
 
N766UA
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:47 pm

I'm not really sure how this qualifies as "people express" operating flights. It's really more akin to a travel agency than an airline, no? Sell the trip, charter somebody else's jet?
 
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N62NA
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 8):
Except for the fact that a start-up is not operating revenue flights. Vision is operating the flights....

They are PEOPLExpress flights just like all those flights between LAX and PDX on those planes painted to look like DL planes are DL flights, and all those EWR-ORD flights on planes painted to look like AA planes are AA flights.

If you're going to pick on PE for doing this, then you should be consistent and technically correct whenever you discuss any of the "Express" flights by the other airlines.  
 
usflyguy
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
They are PEOPLExpress flights just like all those flights between LAX and PDX on those planes painted to look like DL planes are DL flights, and all those EWR-ORD flights on planes painted to look like AA planes are AA flights.

If you're going to pick on PE for doing this, then you should be consistent and technically correct whenever you discuss any of the "Express" flights by the other airlines.

So call them Vision Express or Vision Vacations then.

How many people were on those flights? Smack dab in the middle of the summer travel season, I hope they were full!
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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vatveng
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:12 pm

The Daily Press has a video up on their home page (embedded, can't link directly to it) of the first flight to Newark. It looked pretty full.

www.dailypress.com
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:21 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):






How did they acquire EWR slots and how many did they get?

Daily Press said they had acquired two daily slots--a morning and a late afternoon.

They still are not advertising for local inflight personnel but they have accepted applications from pilots and customer service personnel.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
newhaven
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:44 pm

Quoting vatveng (Reply 12):
the first flight to Newark. It looked pretty full.

You didn't think they'd let a publicized first-flight to anywhere go out lightly loaded, did you? That thing was full of employees, family, friends, travel agents, etc etc ...
 
KarlB737
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting vatveng (Reply 12):
embedded, can't link directly to it

Here's the story with the video included:

http://www.dailypress.com/news/traff...t-flights-20140630,0,5662639.story
 
MSYtristar
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:55 pm

A 737-300 in Vision colors is also being used. It operated the BOS roundtrip this morning. N732VA is the ship number. All Y seating...136 seats.
 
santi319
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:41 pm

How did they get EWR slots? No one has told me yet how?
 
L1011
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:44 pm

I'm booked on them later in July from Newport News to West Palm Beach and back. I'm looking forward to it.

Bob Bradley
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
 
MSYtristar
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:11 pm

Quoting santi319 (Reply 17):
How did they get EWR slots? No one has told me yet how?

Probably because no one on here knows?

Quoting L1011 (Reply 18):
I'm booked on them later in July from Newport News to West Palm Beach and back. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm looking at booking the inaugural PHF-MSY. Trying out/supporting new carriers is always a good thing.

[Edited 2014-06-30 16:20:57]
 
dumbell2424
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:49 am

There's a white with vision titles 733 and the PE green livery 734


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Magero
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Adam Baker



PIT got the 734 for the inaugural. The green looks fresh in person.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:48 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 9):
Sell the trip, charter somebody else's jet?

Technically, it's not a charter. Vision is operating the whole shebang under the PE name. Very confusing, actually.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:41 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 21):
Vision is operating the whole shebang under the PE name. Very confusing, actually.

Its best understood as a dba or "doing business as" in the world of business and law.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 22):
Its best understood as a dba or "doing business as" in the world of business and law.

Which actually doesn't explain much. I would be curious whether Vision is essentially a licensee of the PE trademarks, etc., for a year, or how they have worked it out. Vision has to have operational control to make this legal, and they also have to have financial control and the ticket sale money has to go to them, to avoid this being deemed a Public Charter, which it isn't. So what exactly does PE provide? Marketing? The trademark? The form of the contracts between the two would be interesting to me.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:51 am

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
To all those who said it would never happen.... bah!!

Well, to be entirely-accurate, it sort of hasn't happened. What has happened is that Vision Airlines now has scheduled service routes from PHF to a couple of Northeastern cities.
 
n7371f
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:01 am

Give them 2 months. Early loads are atrocious per a couple of industry sources I trust.
 
canyonblue17
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:12 am

Is this similar to whatever DirectAir was a few years ago. They weren't the actual airline operating the flights, they just marketed and sold the tickets, but the aircraft and crew were a charter company? If so, they operated at my home airport of PBI (a future PeoplesExpress destination) with similar aircraft and did not last long.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
canyonblue17
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:27 am

Also, the airline's website shows service to PBI starting in two weeks from today, but the airport website (which is usually up to date) has no mention of it and the airport has no signs or ticket counter space to indicate it is coming. Vision aircraft are a familiar sight at PBI though, they occasionally run charters to gambling destinations.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
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lightsaber
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:35 am

How much discussion an old name brings up... Would we care if this were any other startup other than an old name revived?

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
175erj
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:44 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):

Delta, United, American also operate their own flights as well as contracting out... PeopleExpress operates nothing.
 
crownvic
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:03 am

My God, give it a rest people. Can we not have an airline in the US outside of American, United and Delta (all charging insane air fares) or is everyone else doomed? OK, so the odds are against PE of surviving, but the negativity does not help.
What is the advantage of being so against a start-up? Trust me; it is in the consumers best interest that we have some options against high air fares. Has anyone paid for their tickets recently? If so, you really should be encouraging these new operators.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:34 am

Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 26):

Is this similar to whatever DirectAir was a few years ago. They weren't the actual airline operating the flights, they just marketed and sold the tickets, but the aircraft and crew were a charter company? If so, they operated at my home airport of PBI (a future PeoplesExpress destination) with similar aircraft and did not last long.

It's different. Direct Air was a public charter, which operated as you described. To operate a public charter, you have to agree to all sorts of rules about the handling of ticket money and refunds for cancelled flights, to prevent a company from absconding with the proceeds or, alternatively, if the venture doesn't turn out to be as financially-successful as the operator planned (which is usually), the operator can't take the money received for flights in the future to pay for the flights today. The most significant rule is the one that requires ticket money to be deposited in a bank that agrees to hold the funds in trust, segregated by the flight to which they apply, with the proviso that the bank refund the money to the passengers if the flight doesn't or won't operate. It also requires the air service provider to not operate any flight for which it is not paid in full in advance. (This is so that any financial issues of the charter operator come to the surface quickly, and the air service provider does not help shield the operator from immediate scrutiny as it runs out of funds.)

PeoplExpress wanted to get its own certificate, which among other things requires that it show: (1) operational competence (safety) and (2) sufficient financial resources (so passengers don't get stiffed).

PeoplExpress, despite years of trying, wasn't likely to be able to get its own certificate anytime soon, so it entered into what seems to be a new type of deal: Vision Airlines, a certificated carrier, would start operating under the PeoplExpress brand. The company selling the tickets is Vision Airlines d/b/a PeoplExpress. PeoplExpress must be (1) retaining and licensing its trademark and (2) [I assume] guaranteeing some level of revenue to Vision. PeoplExpress can't sell tickets because it has neither a certificate nor a Public Charter license.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:38 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
They are PEOPLExpress flights just like all those flights between LAX and PDX on those planes painted to look like DL planes are DL flights, and all those EWR-ORD flights on planes painted to look like AA planes are AA flights.

It's actually a very different setup, as I describe above. Regional flights involve deals between two certificated carriers, among other things, as do code-share flights.

These are Vision Airlines flights, plain and simple. PeoplExpress was a group that attempted to start a certificated carrier and have so far been unsuccessful in that plan. To get the brand back into the air, they transferred certain trademark rights to Vision, who is doing everything on the operations and ticketing side.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:53 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 28):

How much discussion an old name brings up... Would we care if this were any other startup other than an old name revived?


Well, we do tend to follow pretty much all the startups. What differs is the level of interest. This thread has about 5000 views, which means that some members, at least, are moderately-interested, and many are not. Those who are interested are interested probably for the reason that you mention.

Me, I figure people are entitled to be interested in what they are interested in, and to talk about what they are interested in with others of like interests. It's a thread, it has a caption, readers will know what it's about before clicking on it, and one can read it and/or comment on it...or not.

Heck, most people think that people who are interested in Airline Porn are weird. More charitable people, like my last girlfriend, thought that this interest was...um...part of what made me colorful. You can be assured, however, that we didn't talk about this particular interest of mine very much.
 
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N62NA
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:22 am

Quoting 175erj (Reply 29):

Delta, United, American also operate their own flights as well as contracting out... PeopleExpress operates nothing.

They operate the flights that Vision flew today just as DL / AA / UA / US operate flights by Republic, Skywest, Expressjet and Shuttle America flights are "DL" / "AA" / "UA" / "US" flights.

Quoting crownvic (Reply 30):
My God, give it a rest people. Can we not have an airline in the US outside of American, United and Delta (all charging insane air fares) or is everyone else doomed? OK, so the odds are against PE of surviving, but the negativity does not help.

+10000

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 32):
It's actually a very different setup,

Perhaps, but in reality, not.
 
nkops
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:33 am

I am just glad to see a new livery in the air, regardless who is operating it..... besides, I think PHF needed this. Hopefully it lasts
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
raddek
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:50 am

I think it is cool that they have the original logo on the tail. Maybe they could get some second hand winglets maybe on Vision's -300's to add some fuel savings. Bring the fares a little lower  
 
MSYtristar
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:16 pm

It's borderline painful to sit and read through a whole thread nowadays because it gets so far off the topic at hand. I could care less if it's Vision dba PeopleExpress, a wet lease, a marketing agreement, etc. The fact is the People Express BRAND is back in the air and back into public view. That's all that matters. I don't have a crystal ball and I can't predict whether this airline will be around in 6 months to a year. But it's nice to see them take to the skies regardless. Jeff Erickson has said they expect to get the operating certificate in 12-18 months. So take it for what it's worth. Bookings have only been open for 3 weeks so I doubt anyone should be expecting packed to the gills flights right off the bat. Obviously, mgmt understands that. It's not brain surgery.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:16 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 34):
They operate the flights that Vision flew today just as DL / AA / UA / US operate flights by Republic, Skywest, Expressjet and Shuttle America flights are "DL" / "AA" / "UA" / "US" flights.


Not true. All those major carriers are certificated airlines who hire other certificated carriers to do a certain segment (jets below X seats) of their flying, and who clearly demarcate on the other carriers' aircraft that they are flown by someone else.

PeoplExpress is a dba of Vision Airlines. "Welcome aboard Vision Airlines doing business as PeoplExpress." It's as if Delta went out of business and some doctors from Georgia wanted to resurrect Delta, but couldn't, and instead leased the Delta trademark to Mesa, who painted its planes with the full Delta livery and actually took reservations and sold tickets as Mesa Airlines doing business as Delta Air Lines.
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:17 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 37):
I could care less if it's Vision dba PeopleExpress, a wet lease, a marketing agreement, etc. The fact is the People Express BRAND is back in the air and back into public view. That's all that matters.

To you.

To the FAA and DOT, it matters. To the public, it SHOULD matter.

Jeff's a good guy, but I think "hopes" is a more-correct term than "expects".

What happens now with Vision is a proof of concept. If in six months, nobody is making any money, there will be no certificate because there will not be sufficient financial backing.

[Edited 2014-07-01 08:20:47]

[Edited 2014-07-01 08:24:01]
 
747400sp
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:59 pm

This burn me up a little! I lived in Newport News VA from late 2011 to earlier this year, when I move back to LA, and when I lived their, I was looking forward to PE start service at PHF. They just had to wait until I move back to LA to start service.     Lol

Congaulation PEOPLExpress, I hope to see then when I get a chance to visit NN again.
 
celltower
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 pm

Looks like you can't book connections. Is that the case?
 
nkops
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting celltower (Reply 41):

Correct, I had read somewhere they will start offering connections when they get more destinations on line
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
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N62NA
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 38):
Not true. All those major carriers are certificated airlines who hire other certificated carriers to do a certain segment (jets below X seats) of their flying, and who clearly demarcate on the other carriers' aircraft that they are flown by someone else.

PeoplExpress is a dba of Vision Airlines. "Welcome aboard Vision Airlines doing business as PeoplExpress." It's as if Delta went out of business and some doctors from Georgia wanted to resurrect Delta, but couldn't, and instead leased the Delta trademark to Mesa, who painted its planes with the full Delta livery and actually took reservations and sold tickets as Mesa Airlines doing business as Delta Air Lines.

You're purposely splitting hairs here. I get what you're saying, and I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting nkops (Reply 35):
I am just glad to see a new livery in the air, regardless who is operating it..... besides, I think PHF needed this. Hopefully it lasts

PHF desperately needs the competition--fares are obscenely high out of here.

I wish PEX well and I am glad that it is giving some local folks a chance to work in a great industry close to their homes. From what I have seen they are an enthusiastic bunch and if they can keep their finances in order and not grow too quickly they stand a chance.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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ER757
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:49 pm

Quoting crownvic (Reply 30):
What is the advantage of being so against a start-up?

I don't get it either. This is supposed to be an aviation enthusiast site, so why all the negativity when a new company starts up and tries to make a go of it. Lord knows the odds are stacked against anyone trying, but why not be supportive of those who at least are willing to give it a go?
 
wjcandee
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 43):
You're purposely splitting hairs here. I get what you're saying, and I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying.

You're saying that all major airlines do this, so what's the big deal?

I am saying that the difference in structure is meaningful, not splitting hairs: (1) There is a difference in safety -- albeit maybe no different from any start up carrier, but different from the majors having regional subs -- in that you don't have oversight from a party who is a carrier with its own policies and procedures born of experience and a reputation to protect (would this keep me from flying Vision? No, but I recognize that there is a difference.) and (2) There is a difference in likelihood of getting your money back if the route(s) don't work out, because if Envoy goes under or American cancels the route, you are 100-percent going to get your money back, which is the analogy you're making. Here, unlike a public charter, you have no funds in escrow in the bank, only the strength of Vision Airlines d/b/a PeoplExpress, and if Vision goes under, there is no intercarrier agreement for honoring of that ticket and you line up in bankruptcy court like everyone else.

You and I might think it's fun or cute or an adventure to go try PeoplExpress, and go in eyes wide open understanding the situation, but the granny from Williamsburg who has saved all spring and then buys a ticket now to go see her grandkids at Christmas is entitled to know that she stands a higher chance of gettng neither a flight nor her money back than she would on Delta, or, for that matter, on a public charter.

[Edited 2014-07-01 14:05:21]
 
jmc757
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:31 pm

Just an observation in terms of the operational setup "Vision dba PEOPLexpress"

19 years ago a small airline started in Luton, UK. It had no aircraft, and no Air Operators Certificate. It used someone else's aircraft, crew etc with its logo on.

Today easyJet is one of Europe's largest airlines. Now I know the comparison may be way off and the markets completely different. But just because they haven't started immediately with their own AOC is not in itself a reason to rubbish them. It's actually not a bad way to start ops and prove the concept.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:10 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 33):
Well, we do tend to follow pretty much all the startups.

To some extent. But PE is being very closely followed. In my opinion with an amusing amount of scrutiny. It will be interesting to see how they evolve.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2693
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RE: PEOPLExpress Has Started Ops

Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:02 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 46):

You and I might think it's fun or cute or an adventure to go try PeoplExpress, and go in eyes wide open understanding the situation, but the granny from Williamsburg who has saved all spring and then buys a ticket now to go see her grandkids at Christmas is entitled to know that she stands a higher chance of gettng neither a flight nor her money back than she would on Delta, or, for that matter, on a public charter.

You have a very valid point, but I am sure that was the same risk as the beginnings at Southwest, jetBlue and more recently Spirit and Allegiant. Look at where these airlines are today. Everyone has to start somewhere and the 121 certification is more difficult and more costly than ever and with government budget cuts, more time consuming. Even established airlines have felt the pain like Allegiant bringing ETOPS to their 757 fleet, their introduction of the Airbus fleet and the nightmare that Hawaiian had getting Ohana started.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 45):
Quoting crownvic (Reply 30):
What is the advantage of being so against a start-up?

I don't get it either. This is supposed to be an aviation enthusiast site, so why all the negativity when a new company starts up and tries to make a go of it. Lord knows the odds are stacked against anyone trying, but why not be supportive of those who at least are willing to give it a go?

I hear you, but sometimes I really think we have lost the enthusiasts aspect of these forums and everyone is an armchair airline CEO, rather than enjoying what some of us still look at this as a hobby. I am one that would prefer to see 20 airlines at an airport, not just for consumer reasons, but for the hobbyist side of things. It gets real boring going to an airport today seeing the same canyon blue roofs, red widgets and gold tail globes.

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos