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DeltaXNA
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Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:56 am

Isn't this too much airplane for this route? Since US left star, I'm assuming that this route will either be downgraded or dropped by LH. Or does the route do well on it's own?

I was flying US CLT-BCN this past week and noticed the A346 parked next to my plane.

[Edited 2014-06-30 22:25:34]
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:30 am

I think it becomes an A333 in the winter. With US on OW I see it becoming an A332 year round. The flight also has a contract with BMW as one of their plants, and I think NA HQ, are in NC, and some contracts are lucrative enough to keep routes alive. DLs contract with P&G for CVG-CDG is an example.
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IAHflyer97
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:59 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):

This has been discusses many times on this forum. The route will most likely not be dropped. If anything, it'll be an A330 year round.
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Unflug
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:16 am

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 2):
This has been discusses many times on this forum.

Maybe not "many times", but it certainly comes up from time to time:

How Does LH Do On CLT-MUC? (by USAirALB Feb 11 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Lufthansa Keeping CLT-MUC Flights (by flyjoe Jan 21 2014 in Civil Aviation)
 
LH422
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:31 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
With US on OW I see it becoming an A332 year round.

Lufthansa doesn't operate A330-200 anymore.
 
airbazar
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:17 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
The flight also has a contract with BMW as one of their plants, and I think NA HQ, are in NC

Not just BMW.
http://charlotteusa.com/business-info/international-business/germany/
Needless to say that this route isn't going anywhere, with or without U.S. in *A.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:32 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
I think it becomes an A333 in the winter. With US on OW I see it becoming an A332 year round. The flight also has a contract with BMW as one of their plants, and I think NA HQ, are in NC, and some contracts are lucrative enough to keep routes alive.

BMW North America's HQ is in NJ.

BMW's sole North American vehicle assembly complex is very close to GSP, not CLT.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:35 pm

I think the real test for the flight will come in the fall/winter. My money's that it will stick around, but maybe not as a daily.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
The flight also has a contract with BMW as one of their plants, and I think NA HQ, are in NC, and some contracts are lucrative enough to keep routes alive. DLs contract with P&G for CVG-CDG is an example.

The plants (there are two) are in Spartanburg, *SC* (about 70 miles WSW from CLT). BMW of North America has their HQ in New Jersey. They also have an engineering center in the LA area.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/CompanyInformation/Default.aspx
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uberflieger
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:19 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 5):
http://charlotteusa.com/business-info/international-business/germany/

Very   link
Skeptical, I do hope Lufti can make CLT-MUC work without the US partnership. A down-gauge to the A330 and less than daily were predictable, although I don't believe that's any different from previous years?

No doubt the US seasonal 2nd CLT-FRA flight is a goner with the exit from *A, but if the business ties between Charlotte and Germany do indeed produce substantial business travel I could see American make a play for it, by either flying to AB's hub in DUS or competing directly with LH to MUC.

[Edited 2014-07-01 06:28:18]
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:32 pm

CLT is one of the very few destinations on LH's network that is only connected to MUC and not FRA. If not for BMW, this flight would be a goner. LH might have to run this route at a loss in the winter just to keep the contract.

Even if BA arrives at CLT and AA/US deploys PMAA metal there, I don't see them offering 3-class F service out of CLT to Europe, making LH's service the only one to offer First class.
 
uberflieger
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:49 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 9):
making LH's service the only one to offer First class

Flying an empty First Class around is not good business   but LH is already on it and will actually reduce First Class capacity below BA's.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...s-fleet-below-british-airways.html
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:15 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 10):
Flying an empty First Class around is not good business but LH is already on it and will actually reduce First Class capacity below BA's.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...s-fleet-below-british-airways.html

With all the BMW execs going back and forth i'm not sure it's really THAT empty. Either way it's only 8 seats so it's a relative small cost of business but a good selling point (

And it makes sense that fleet-wide LH goes fewer % of F than BA since FRA/MUC is no LHR. The flipside of the equation is that fewer competitors are offering F into FRA/MUC than LHR, so LH can possibly capture a high % of the addressable market.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:43 pm

I agree on the route being flown by a A333. Makes perfect sense if the A346 doesn't work out. Either that or an A343 though I think LH would rather use a A343 for a longer route and deploy an A333 on CLT.

KH
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airbazar
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:10 pm

I guess I'm one of the few people who thinks that LH will actually thrive in CLT once US leaves *A. AA has never been very strong in Germany and I don't see that changing. the only question for me is whether they will strengthen MUC-CLT or add FRA-CLT.
 
USAirALB
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:47 pm

Why does LH fly CLT-MUC with an A346?

Because there is enough demand. F and J are usually filled with executives from the plethora of German firms in the area, while Y is usually filled with foreigners visiting the US and/or US groups visiting Europe. The flight is especially popular in the summer for tour groups visiting Europe. Recall that the A346 is only on the route from late March-late October, after which it switches to an A333/A343.

All MUC based aircraft are fitted with a F cabin, I believe.

LH has publically announced that they are committed to the CLT market (even holding several functions in the CLT area just to calm the nerves of local German firms), and will continue to interline with AA/US and connect passengers through CLT.
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727LOVER
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:40 pm

Don't forget the crazy LH lady at the overlook!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVUT5qX_q7w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLTx9fvPuNU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk54uXJvFOE
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ORDJOE
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:41 pm

There is a lot of finance in CLT as well, bank of america, wells fargo and a few others. That might also help keep this route alive
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 16):

But the German finance is mostly in FRA ... MUC is for auto traffic
 
CV880
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 9):
If not for BMW, this flight would be a goner. LH might have to run this route at a loss in the winter just to keep the contract.

Siemens, one of the world's largest industrial conglomerates, has a huge turbine plant near the CLT Airport. The Company's HQ is MUC. Freightliner (trucking) also has a manufacturing plant in the area. BMW is hardly the only game in the area.
 
airbazar
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 17):

But the German finance is mostly in FRA ... MUC is for auto traffic

That is over simplifying things. Bavaria has a very strong economy in all types of sectors. MUC is also a LH hub which means LH can transport executives from all those ~00 German firms based in the Charlotte area back to the their home base in various German cities.
 
tigerotor77w
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:39 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 19):
MUC is also a LH hub

I work for a German company in Charleston and look for CLT-MUC whenever I go to Germany and actually prefer MUC to FRA. It's a calmer airport that still has good access other [large] airports. Perhaps it's frustration with the lack of nonstop destinations my local airport, but getting into MUC and then on to other destinations is a breeze.

Not that LH would base a route decision on my needs, but I'm glad CLT-MUC exists and hope it stays!
 
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ua900
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RE: Why Does LH CLT-MUC With An A346

Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:01 am

CLT is staying part of LH's network. Same as ATL, MIA, MCO, BOS, JFK, PHL, DTW, DFW, SEA. Being a *A hub isn't a prerequisite for LH service. These airports see anything from a 388 to a 333 and the routes manage to do just fine without UA being there to provide more than a RJ to Bumpkinville connectivity.
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