bhxdtw
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Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:19 am

I was just thinking,

9/11 changed the airline industry in so many ways, however I was thinking today of some of the changes that happened in the industry and I started thinking about potential city pairs that were going to be linked or could have been linked had it not have been for the devastating effects of 9/11

I'm talking purely about things such as, would we see more routes today that would have been started had it not been for 9/11. I read in another thread that AC had planned YVR - DEL but didn't start the route after 9/11 happened. I also remember working at BHX at the time and DL people had just toured the airport with a view to starting ATL BHX service, that too was cancelled.

I know that the current prices of oil, and the economic downturns in various parts of the globe would have surely had an effect eventually, but I'm just curious. Would as many airlines have gone bankrupt ? Would there have been as many mergers ?

Just interested in your comments,

Thanks,

J
 
cle757
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:28 am

CLE-FRA on CO was planned.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:45 am

QF was to start MEL-ORD that would have ment that another QF jet at LAX that would fly onto ORD just like the LAX-JFK tag, that service never got started after 9/11.

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
Would as many airlines have gone bankrupt ? Would there have been as many mergers ?

I think they would have, the 90s seem to be a boom for time some airlines expanding fleet wise, aswell as service wise, nobody realy saw a economic down turn comming and if it was, then that fateful day brought it to a head. In the case down here it was just coincedence that AN went bankrupt the day after, they were in trouble for a long time and so was NZ who at the time owned AN, Swissair was another airline that was introuble and bleeding money, it just happened that 9/11 brought that all to a head as I said before. In the US I guess after 3 weeks of being grounded the US airlines were going to struggle to get people back up in the air, (I flew MCO-DEN-LAX 3 weeks after 9/11) so many airlines had to do what they could to survive and that ment slashing as much as they could ie- dumping old fuel gas guzzlers, cutting routes, retrenching staff it was a time for mass restruchers for airlines and very quick to in order to ride out that aftermarth which was going to last for a long time to come.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:17 am

United announced ORD-DEL nonstop which was to start October 2001.

UAL New N.S. (by Boeing757fan Aug 14 2001 in Civil Aviation)

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bunumuring
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:49 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 2):
QF was to start MEL-ORD that would have ment that another QF jet at LAX that would fly onto ORD just like the LAX-JFK tag, that service never got started after 9/11.

Yep, Qantas had announced the Chicago service and caused speculation as to why it wasn't a Sydney originating flight. However, upon closer scrutiny, the flight was timed to pick up Sydney originating passengers in LAX for the onward tag to Chicago. I can't remember exactly why, but it made more operational sense at the time for the Melbourne flight to tag on to Chicago, and not one of the Sydney flights.
If I remember correctly, there was also speculation about Qantas flying to Denver as well pre9/11. Or was it Atlanta? Or Miami? Lol, sorry, I just can't remember but I do know that one other US city was being speculated about at the time besides the new Chicago service...
I seem to recall as well speculation that Qantas was looking at an additional European city. QF always wanted daily flights into Paris, and briefly operated 4x per week but found it too difficult without the daily flights they desired. I cannot remember which was the other European city... I'm sure someone here on a.net would know!
An interesting tangent ... The demise of Ansett and 9/11 almost caused Qantas to operate the 5x Cathay Pacific 777-200s when QF was desperate to fill the void of the Ansett collapse and airlines worldwide (except Qantas) were desperate to cut back capacity. It was the closest QF came to obtaining and operating the 777. I believe they were to operate purely domestic Aussie flights. How do I know? One of my best mates was high up in QF maintenance at the time and was aware of the deal due it's ramifications for him and his team, introducing a new type. He didn't tell me about it however, until years later due to commercial confidentiality.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

[Edited 2014-07-03 22:50:23]
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Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:23 am

I had no idea they were looking at DEN, or ATL, I do know ORD was a goer, I guess this was before airline aliances so yeah I guess other US citys would be looked at. I wounder how much buisness would there be between DEN and say MEL or SYD?
As for the 772 wow how cool would that have looked in QF colours? I knew they wanted more flights to Paris, I think they wanted daly but but the French Government would not give them daly into CDG I think.
 
bunumuring
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:30 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 5):
I knew they wanted more flights to Paris, I think they wanted daly but but the French Government would not give them daly into CDG I think.

Spot on, mate. The French Government would only allow four flights per week. Qantas wanted daily.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:43 am

I think the way things have gone for QF now even if they had daly into CDG that service would have been dropped.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:52 am

IAH - FTW on CO was announced before 9/11 then canceled before service was to begin. At the time it would have been extremely convenient for me.

After the recovery came about the Wright Amendment repeal agreement and Fort Worth stopped all efforts to bring passenger service to FTW.
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Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:56 am

I also think the aftermarth of 9/11 aswell had an affect of European carriers flying to Australia, it was costing them big time money wise to fly here and I think that had a part to play with European carriers pulling out of Australia. The whole avaition picture changed for years after.
 
jwhite9185
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:47 pm

VS would no doubt still be flying to YYZ (even if it was just on a seasonal basis, like ORD currently is), as they had only recently started that route at the time.

Also they would have no doubt flown to ATH for at least a few years longer than they did, as they had acquired an A321 for the route just a few months earlier.

They also cut the LGW-EWR, the second daily LHR-IAD and the second daily LHR-SFO if I remember correctly due to them ditching the 747-200 fleet pretty quickly.
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adamh8297
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:01 pm

I had read that EK had originally planned to venture in the US (like they are doing now) much sooner but 9/11 squashed the plans.
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USAirALB
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:04 pm

Ansett Australia was planning to fly to Denver.
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bunumuring
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:42 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 12):

Ansett Australia was planning to fly to Denver.

Hi mate,
I know Ansett were considering US routes but nothing got to the definite stage, and Denver was definitely not one of the top ones being considered. LAX, San Francisco, Honolulu (with 767-300ERs) and I believe San Diego were the top ones. Much earlier, Phoenix had been considered too, to link up to America West as Ansett had an indirect holding in them at one stage. I didn't realise that Denver was high in the planning, if you are correct with what you say.
All of these routes would've been flown with 747-400s, with the exception of Hawaii on 767s.
In an case, Ansett was In no state to start anything well before 9/11, and in fact 'died' the day after, and no as a result of 9/11. Ansett had a relatively rapid spiral downwards in the year or so leading to it's demise and was winding back many international routes and not starting new ones.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
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RobertS975
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:21 pm

Someone please correct if I am wrong, but I recall seeing posters at BOS announcing DL service from BOS to FCO (AZ flew BOS-MXP at that time). It never happened.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:49 pm

There were rumors at CMH that DL was going to start 767 service on CMH-ATL, as well as flights to SLC. CMH would eventually get (and lose) SLC, but no widebodies.  
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Robbie86
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:42 pm

I'm pretty sure we would have seen a bigger SK if it hadn't been for 9/11.

CPH-HKG, CPH-SFO (Way more earlier), ARN-NRT is just a few I have in mind.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 10):
VS would no doubt still be flying to YYZ (even if it was just on a seasonal basis, like ORD currently is), as they had only recently started that route at the time.

I don't think the VS service to YYZ was affected much by 9/11. A major problem with the ability of VS to compete at YYZ was the fact that they operated to Gatwick, not Heathrow.
 
Lentini2001
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:20 pm

I **think** AA were going to re-start BHX to ORD after September 11th but for some reason, AA were looking to lower the cost BHX charged for landing slots and BHX were like 'no way, sorry' so I think AA said something like foxtrot oscar then and said they would never come back - and indeed never did.

Now, I could be totally wrong (wont be the first time) but I'm sure I remember it like that.

Happy to be corrected, but please, don't go for the jugular.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
I know that the current prices of oil, and the economic downturns in various parts of the globe would have surely had an effect eventually, but I'm just curious. Would as many airlines have gone bankrupt ? Would there have been as many mergers ?

Fuel prices are just about 4X what they were in Sept 2001. That change on viability of long-distance routes swamps every effect of political changes, security measures, alliances, etc.

Data from U.S. EIA.

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p521/ft3cforme/chart_zpsf9f4c4e6.png
 
bchandl
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:20 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 1):

As someone who lived in Ohio (not cleveland) for 20 years, it really is a shame to see what has become of both CVG and CLE.

Both cities have some big time corporate entities in them. Cincinnati with P&G, GE and CLE with Cleveland Health Network (world class healthcare organization) and a bunch of insurance related organizations.

CLE, with just minimal feed in a small hub/focus city could have easily made a CLE-EU HUB profitable.

CVG-CDG exists today simply for corporate contracts. Once the 767 is gone for DL, I don't see that route sticking around. They can just route them all through JFK.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 20):
CVG-CDG exists today simply for corporate contracts. Once the 767 is gone for DL, I don't see that route sticking around. They can just route them all through JFK.

I don't know, I'd think that unless something drastic changes with the corporate travel O&D (plus the CFM engines parts in the belly) CDG will stick around with a 787 or perhaps a 330 freed up by 787 deliveries. The 330 would obviously be an upgauge while the 787 would be similar in size, but might make more sense if 787s are scarce.
 
greatansett
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:44 pm

I think it should be noted in AN 's case that it would have certainly gone bankrupt irrespective of 911. 911 hit Ansett in terms of its resale
Ron Paul 2012
 
MAH4546
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:58 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 1):
CLE-FRA on CO was planned.

It might have been "planned" internally, but it was never announced.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 2):
QF was to start MEL-ORD that would have ment that another QF jet at LAX that would fly onto ORD just like the LAX-JFK tag, that service never got started after 9/11.

This had nothing to do with 9/11. Qantas announced and cancelled Chicago O'Hare twice, with start dates of March 2003 and March 2004.

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
I read in another thread that AC had planned YVR - DEL but didn't start the route after 9/11 happened.

Air Canada cancelled plans to fly Vancouver-Delhi in August 2001.

Quoting roberts975 (Reply 14):
but I recall seeing posters at BOS announcing DL service from BOS to FCO (AZ flew BOS-MXP at that time).

You are correct, but nothing to do with 9/11. The route was announced in November 2002, but was never started (was supposed to start May 2003). IIRC, Delta then announced BOS-FCO again in the mid-2000s and, again, it never launched.

Quoting Lentini2001 (Reply 18):

I **think** AA were going to re-start BHX to ORD after September 11th but for some reason,

AA flew ORD-BHX continuously between summer 1998 and summer 2002.
a.
 
bchandl
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:30 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 2):
QF was to start MEL-ORD

I assume this was with a stop in LAX? Because if not, the first scheduled 747 would have crashed into the Utah mountains out of fuel.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 2):
just like the LAX-JFK tag

This exists, yes?

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 2):
that service never got started after 9/11.

If 9/11 put the plans for SYD-LAX-ORD on hold, why has it not started since? It's been 13 years since 9/11 and QF has opened routes to other US airports since, with the same birds they had in their fleet on 9/11.

If they were that serious about LAX-ORD tag on, either something drastic changed or it was nothing more than internal rumblings.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 24):

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 2):
QF was to start MEL-ORD

I assume this was with a stop in LAX? Because if not, the first scheduled 747 would have crashed into the Utah mountains out of fuel.

Yes via LAX.

Quoting bchandl (Reply 24):
just like the LAX-JFK tag

This exists, yes?

Yes! Though I think it may have been dropped briefly after 9/11. First started in 99 IIRC.

Quoting bchandl (Reply 24):
If 9/11 put the plans for SYD-LAX-ORD on hold, why has it not started since? It's been 13 years since 9/11 and QF has opened routes to other US airports since, with the same birds they had in their fleet on 9/11.

If they were that serious about LAX-ORD tag on, either something drastic changed or it was nothing more than internal rumblings.

Probably not as much appeal as NYC along those lines in terms of numbers. It was officially announced twice.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 23):
This had nothing to do with 9/11. Qantas announced and cancelled Chicago O'Hare twice, with start dates of March 2003 and March 2004.

You sure? I thought the first time was before 9/11?! And the second was March 2003.

I wonder if QF would have flown AKL-DFW back then if not for 9/11? While it was never officially announced it was definatly in a press release around the time the 744ERs were ordered as a proposed route for the ER. Sure it would have been dropped by now or have gone non stop SYD-DFW earlier than it 2011.
 
rj777
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:57 am

I bet quite a few domestic US non-stop routes wouldn't have been cut..case in point-MKE-OMA)... MKE probably would still be a hub (either for Midwest or Frontier..)..... the WN/FL buildup at MKE would have been even bigger...... and maybe even a couple new airlines would have come in...
 
bchandl
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:31 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 25):
Probably not as much appeal as NYC along those lines in terms of numbers. It was officially announced twice.

Yes but they have expanded to SYD-DFW-MEL-SYD since 9/11. They could have done SYD-LAX-ORD-LAX-SYD with that bird, but yet they opted for another US destination over ORD.

My point, is it there are probably other reasons, outside 9/11, that made them think twice on the route.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:25 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 27):
Yes but they have expanded to SYD-DFW-MEL-SYD since 9/11. They could have done SYD-LAX-ORD-LAX-SYD with that bird, but yet they opted for another US destination over ORD.

SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD, soon SYD-DFW-SYD. A LAX-ORD tag is using an aircraft already at LAX. They replaced SFO with DFW. SFO wasn't served when 9/11 happened.

Quoting bchandl (Reply 27):

My point, is it there are probably other reasons, outside 9/11, that made them think twice on the route.

As is mine, like JFK had more premium traffic yet is not a cheap add on from LAX, but covers itself whereas ORD maybe wouldn't of covered itself.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:03 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 23):
This had nothing to do with 9/11. Qantas announced and cancelled Chicago O'Hare twice, with start dates of March 2003 and March 2004.

They were going to link ORD from MEL and those plans were were scrapped after 9/11. I think the ORD services you have mentioned in 03 and 04 were from SYD. Then again I do stand to be corrected if I am wrong  
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:06 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 24):
I assume this was with a stop in LAX? Because if not, the first scheduled 747 would have crashed into the Utah mountains out of fuel.

Yes I should have said that I think it would have done like they do now for the SYD-LAX-JFK
 
MAH4546
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:10 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 25):
Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 29):
They were going to link ORD from MEL and those plans were were scrapped after 9/11. I think the ORD services you have mentioned in 03 and 04 were from SYD. Then again I do stand to be corrected if I am wrong

I am absolutely sure. The service was announced in mid-2012 for a launch of March 29, 2003. It never started. It was then announced again for a start of March 30, 2014. Again, it was cancelled.

Qantas never announced any plans for Chicago prior to 9/11.

[Edited 2014-07-05 03:11:49]
a.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:22 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 24):
If 9/11 put the plans for SYD-LAX-ORD on hold, why has it not started since? It's been 13 years since 9/11 and QF has opened routes to other US airports since, with the same birds they had in their fleet on 9/11.

Its mainly in the case of todays QF that they have AA for their partner in the US, and AA can get QF passengers to anywhere in the US. LAX has always been the money maker for QF and in todays avaition world of alliances it made sence for QF to fly to DFW the home of its partner airline over there. The only routes they have opened since 9/11 was a return back to SFO which again got dropped in favour of DFW, we think they still could have kept flying there but its a UA and Star strong hold and I dont think AA is very big at SFO, and the JFK tag on from LAX. They are the only citys they have added in the USA.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:31 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 24):
If they were that serious about LAX-ORD tag on, either something drastic changed or it was nothing more than internal rumblings.

Yes big things have happened at QF, Alan Joyce taking over from Geoff Dixon and stripping QF back to the bare bones, putting Jetstar before QF, the set back of the A380 and their late deliverys, the 787 debarcle that has realy affected QF big time, having its international network slashed to where QF only flys to London Heathrow and has EK doing all its flying from Dubai, and still QF international is loosing money. So a lot has happened to QF since 9/11 its only a shell of its former self.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:40 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 31):

I am absolutely sure. The service was announced in mid-2012 for a launch of March 29, 2003. It never started. It was then announced again for a start of March 30, 2014. Again, it was cancelled.

It seems you are right.

I'm hoping your predictions for AA on LAX-AKL come to fruition. That's another topic anyway.
 
AirFiero
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:15 pm

SJC was building up very nicely, with service all over Canada, Mexico, Tokyo, Taipei and Paris. I wonder how things would have gone.
 
bunumuring
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:59 pm

Hi all,
The Chicago Qantas services definitely were to originate in Melbourne and fly via Los Angeles, where they were to pick up Sydney-originating passengers.
San Francisco was dropped by Qantas to allow a reshuffling of resources to open the Dallas route. As has been mentioned, San Francisco has relatively poor onwards connection possibilities for Qantas compared to the mega-hub that Dallas is for American Airlines with it's plethora of onward connections to the east coast of the USA, eastern Canada and arguably South America.
The reason Qantas has not started any new routes besides the San Francisco -Dallas swap is that the airline has dramatically cut back it's international flying. Many of us Aussies see San Francisco eventually being served again, perhaps by Jetstar. Qantas stated at the time that in isolation it's San Francisco services were profitable but the Dallas route was more promising overall and allowed greater possibilities with American Airlines. Thus the switch.
It's worth pointing out too that Vancouver has been played around a bit by Qantas, as a tag on from Los Angeles (or was it San Francisco? My memory fails me) and via Honolulu. I can see Jetstar perhaps resuming Qantas Group services there in the medium future.
Keep smiling,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
bhxdtw
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:16 am

hmm... does anyone have a reliable list of airlines that folded in the immediate aftermath.


I only can think of SN and SR ... however I understand that SR was kinda reinvented as SWISS via Crossair, the original LX...

A friend of mine claims that SA was also badly affected however we both argue that mismanagement was a bigger problem for SA.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:24 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 37):
hmm... does anyone have a reliable list of airlines that folded in the immediate aftermath.


I only can think of SN and SR ...

9/11 had little to do with the collapse of SR and SN.
 
caribb
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:21 am

You might want to consider YUL-BEY also in this thread.. it (AC's effort in 2003) was yanked at the last minute under speculation the US government pulled some strings with the Canadian government and had it stopped for US (read North American) security reasons.. not sure how true any of that is and I'm not suggesting it really happened that way but I suspect it would have gone through had 9/11 never occurred.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:55 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 36):
Hi all,
The Chicago Qantas services definitely were to originate in Melbourne and fly via Los Angeles, where they were to pick up Sydney-originating passengers.

Thanks Bunumuring you explained it perfectly, I wanted to say most of that but could not put it in words, and I think the Vancover flight was via SFO I think, but I cant remember if QF actualy landed its metal there or not before it got scrapped.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:08 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 37):
hmm... does anyone have a reliable list of airlines that folded in the immediate aftermath.

A lot of those airlines were in big trouble money wise anyway but 9/11 brought all that to a head. AN was bleeding money well before 9/11, Sebena never made a profit and was always in trouble, its jjust that 9/11 brought it all to a head. I do remember that US Airways got rid of Metro Jet which was flying old 737 100 and 200s so that airline went as a result of 9/1. I do know all the old planes like the DC10s and early 737s and 727s were quickly retired after 9/11.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:33 am

Quoting AirFiero (Reply 35):
SJC was building up very nicely, with service all over Canada, Mexico, Tokyo, Taipei and Paris. I wonder how things would have gone.

AA was planning to start SJC-LGW and SJC-GDL. These are routes that probably would have happened if it weren't for 9/11.

AA had already started SJC-TPE and SJC-CDG in about April 2001. They were discontinued in about October 2001, definite victims of 9/11. SJC-NRT lasted until October 2006. AC dropped out of SJC around 2001 also.

AA also announced SJC-RDU around that time but never started it.
 
AirGAbon
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:26 am

I am thinking also about the AF service CDG-DFW, that AF dropped, but I am not really sure it was after 9/11, or because of KL already existing flight.

AF had also some "exotics" plans with A319 dedicate to TAS, KWI, Atyrau in Kazakhstan etc. that never started.
 
bunumuring
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:25 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 40):
the Vancover flight was via SFO I think, but I cant remember if QF actualy landed its metal there or not before it got scrapped.

Hi mate,
I am pretty sure that Qantas flew the Vancouver tag for at least two 'seasons' - I seem to remember that it was a seasonal service.
I flew Vancouver to Honolulu in 1996 on a Canadian Pacific DC-10 (my only DC-10 flight; also memorable for having THE oldest and grumpiest FAs I have ever experienced) and connected to a Qantas 747-300 for the equally memorable onward flight to Sydney (upgraded free to business class; also sadly a passenger sitting in front of me died mid-flight). I flew Canadian Pacific because Qantas weren't flying the route at that time. BTW, I flew into Vancouver from LHR on a British Airways 767-300ER.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:46 pm

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 43):

I am thinking also about the AF service CDG-DFW, that AF dropped, but I am not really sure it was after 9/11, or because of KL already existing flight.

AF started DFW on May 7, 2001 and dropped the service in October 2001, I believe. The KL flight didn't start until March 30, 2008 after the EU-US Open Skies agreement went into effect.

In a similar vein, I'm certain that this route, along with DFWNRT on JL and DFWBRU on SN, would have survived.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Delta would have maintained its DFW hub.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:45 pm

I've heard from several people over the years that DL was strongly looking at DFW-MSY-CDG same plane 763ER service to begin in late '01/early '02.
 
steeler83
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:34 pm

US either applied or was going to apply for PIT-AMS service, which I guess was to be operated using 767 equipment. IIRC, they were going to apply for said service either that month or a short time afterwards...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:45 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 44):
I am pretty sure that Qantas flew the Vancouver tag for at least two 'seasons' - I seem to remember that it was a seasonal service.

QF operated the YVR-SFO tag-on year-round for several decades, from the 1950s through the 1980s, mostly once-a-week. There was a fairly short period of a few years in the early 1970s when QF replaced the YVR-SFO tag-on service with a YVR-PPT-NAN-SYD service using 707s, twice a week. At the time the YVR-PPT 5th freedom sector was YVR's longest nonstop route, slighly further than CP's YVR-HND and YVR-AMS nonstops.

As a sidenote, QF's YVR-SFO tag-on was YVR's first scheduled jet service in 1959.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Routes That Would Have Happened If Not For 9/11

Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:39 am

What was Canadian Paciffic like to fly? We use to see them in Melb untill the take over by Air Canada, AC continued MELB for only a couple of months after that then stopped the service altogether. They had a 2nd try at MELB but it didnt seem to work, that flight was via HNL with the A340s.

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