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LAXintl
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LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:48 am

Lufthansa says its having to drop plans to utilize the 747-8 to Mumbai effective next week as it has been notified by Indian authorities the aircraft has no where to park.

The airport only has a single VLA capable gate which has been assigned to Emirates which itself launches A380 service to BOM starting July 21st.

Mumbai International Airport Ltd spokesperson says they will have additional VLA gates ready in 15-months.

LH spokesman says the carrier will keep the 747-400 on the BOM route, and itself is looking to now utilize the A380 in the future to Mumbai and is seeking the required approvals.


No parking bay, Lufthansa Boeing 747-8 to skip Mumbai
http://www.business-standard.com/art...to-skip-mumbai-114070700819_1.html

=


What a disgrace and fiasco!
You would think airlines would have these details cleared up with local authorities before announcing the service.
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mercure1
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:55 am

GOI's welcome gift to LH for having finally accepted AI into Star   
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N867DA
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:58 am

Did LH announce the service before checking with Indian officials, or have the Indian authorities done an about-face on VLA space availability?
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:02 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
You would think airlines would have these details cleared up with local authorities before announcing the service.

I guess you've never dealt with Indian "local authorities" ever ... 
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boeingguy26
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:22 am

That's unfortunate. I'm blessed to see the LH 748 approach into LAX every day and it's exciting every time. Send the 748 over to LAX 2x daily!   (one can dream)
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:35 am

Quoting boeingguy26 (Reply 4):
Send the 748 over to LAX 2x daily!

It already is 2x daily. LH450/456 are now both 74H.

Cheers!

[Edited 2014-07-07 21:39:55]
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blue100
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:06 am

Anyone know if LH is planning to utilize the 748 on LH404/405 to JFK as a result of this change in aircraft to BOM? A friend sent me the article below, which indicated that it would be used from mid-July through October.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...te-for-summer-2014/comment-page-1/
 
ojas
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:15 am

Well let's get some facts straightened out here.

Question 1: Code F or A380/B748 Gates:

At the moment there is only one of them built and once when the next arm of the terminal opens, there would be 4 code F stands in 15 months time. After which 4 A380s can come at one time (which is very unlikely to happen).

Question 2: Is there a Solution for this at the moment?

Yes there is. The EK A380 can use the code F stand and the B748 can use the regular one and will have to keep the next bay empty. This is perfectly doable, as there would be many bays empty at that time of the day. In a worst case scenario, its just one 9W B737 arriving from the Middle east needs to be aprked at the remote bay; which 9W would happily agree.

And most importantly; do note that LH had the first claim of the B748 before EK, so if there was a tussle EK would have to retract their A380s not LH. Me thinks LH isn't in too much of a hurry to get the VLAs at BOM.
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N1120A
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:40 am

Quoting boeingguy26 (Reply 4):
That's unfortunate. I'm blessed to see the LH 748 approach into LAX every day and it's exciting every time. Send the 748 over to LAX 2x daily! (one can dream)

It is 2X -8 now. In fact, I got to see Fanhansa depart and another -8 arrive on Sunday.
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KarelXWB
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:25 am

Question:

Quote:
“Aircraft deployment and rescheduling is a very normal practice in aviation industry and is based on many factors. Our plans to deploy the A380 to Mumbai have been made in view of the growing demand in the Indian market,” Lufthansa said in a statement.

We change aircraft size according to demand in the markets and we are pleased to say that in view of the growing demand we plan to introduce the A380 in Mumbai instead of B747-8.

How is LH going to send the A380 to BOM if the sole gate is allocated to EK?
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:31 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
How is LH going to send the A380 to BOM if the sole gate is allocated to EK?

You missed the part where BOM is building a new VLA gate.
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:38 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
You missed the part where BOM is building a new VLA gate.

Construction will take some 15 months, I was under the impression that LH wants to introduce the A380 later this year. So that's not going to happen.
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PHX787
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:13 am

And the negative rep of Indian aviation continues  


Honestly, I thought they would've anticipated this. Or perhaps this is more fuel to the fire for anti-EK people      
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Hendrik438
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:09 am

Quoting blue100 (Reply 6):
Anyone know if LH is planning to utilize the 748 on LH404/405 to JFK as a result of this change in aircraft to BOM? A friend sent me the article below, which indicated that it would be used from mid-July through October.

I can confirm this. Starting mid July LH404 will be flown by a 74H and LH400 stays with the 388.

I´m a bit surprised since this doesn´t quite fit with the talks about overcapacity on the North Atlantic.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:18 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1):
GOI's welcome gift to LH for having finally accepted AI into Star   

BOM is a private airport. Obviously it can start to Delhi without any issues.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Honestly, I thought they would've anticipated this. Or perhaps this is more fuel to the fire for anti-EK people      

May be there is some glitch with EK's paperwork. Who knows!!!
All posts are just opinions.
 
aviationaware
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:56 am

Quoting ojas (Reply 7):
And most importantly; do note that LH had the first claim of the B748 before EK, so if there was a tussle EK would have to retract their A380s not LH.

India is full of corruption, couple this with anti-corruption laws in Germany and none in Dubai, and there is nothing surprising about this anymore.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:08 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 15):

And that's exactly why I'm all in favor of Germany not expanding their bilaterals with UAE until they learn how to deal with proper first world nations
 
LondonCity
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:14 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 7):
And most importantly; do note that LH had the first claim of the B748 before EK, so if there was a tussle EK would have to retract their A380s not LH. Me thinks LH isn't in too much of a hurry to get the VLAs at BOM.

Maybe EK is more important to BOM than is LH ?
 
cricket
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:19 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 15):
Quoting ojas (Reply 7):
And most importantly; do note that LH had the first claim of the B748 before EK, so if there was a tussle EK would have to retract their A380s not LH.

India is full of corruption, couple this with anti-corruption laws in Germany and none in Dubai, and there is nothing surprising about this anymore.

I doubt it has to do with corruption, EK is a far more important airline to BOM than LH. 5x a day BOM-DXB. the 748 continues to DEL (LH760/761) though I should be (finally) flying it soon.
been there, flown that
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:33 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 15):
India is full of corruption, couple this with anti-corruption laws in Germany and none in Dubai, and there is nothing surprising about this anymore.

This is a simple up-guage (744 to 748) gone bad. May be both LH and BOM overlooked the fact current 744 gates are not compatible with 748 and too late to correct because VLA gate went to EK. LH can pick different time slot.

How would any other airport handle a slot restriction issue. I didn't see any one calling them corrupt.

Both EK/LH were sleep at the switch when India allowed A380. With SQ's lead, both are scrambling to get back in the game.
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ElPistolero
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:10 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 15):
India is full of corruption, couple this with anti-corruption laws in Germany and none in Dubai, and there is nothing surprising about this anymore.

Indeed, but corruption is a two way street and for all the moral/ethical hand wrimging, Germans/ German companies don't seem to mind handing over money when it suits them. Ask Daimler. Or Siemens. OrLH's own Bizjet. If LH feels so strongly about corruption, it should stop flying to India. That way it won't run the moral risk of being the recipient of immorally gained funds - unless, of course, it vets its passengers to determine who is using money they made legally, and who is using money they gained through bribery.

India has anti-corruption laws. Once the evidence is there, it will be prosecuted. All LH has to do is identify the bribe taker. If you're going to make a claim, back it up.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 16):
And that's exactly why I'm all in favor of Germany not expanding their bilaterals with UAE until they learn how to deal with proper first world nations

Indeed, Germany should stop trying to expand bilateral with India and China and other corrupt countries.

In any event, these posts make little sense in this context. LH could have started operating 748s to BOM before the 380s were even allowed into India. They chose not to. Too bad.
 
hohd
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:45 pm

Probably the main reason LH is not actively pursuing BOM for 748 is that the traffic flows are up and down, down mid week, but up weekends and is also seasonal (up during North American summer and in October and late December). They have decided to wait for the 380, but I doubt if BOM has that much traffic for a 380, especially they also have a daily flight to MUC.
 
iyerhari
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:48 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 16):

Please stop making these statements in an airline forum. History is replete with such great scenarios already - if these nations don't want to deal with corruption then don't come into that market.
 
ytz
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:14 pm

Amazing. Westerners will readily attack India for being corrupt, but then defend wholeheartedly, their airlines right to fly there, while also attacking the ME3 for various standard propaganda items (state ownership of airlines, non-Western labour standards, etc.)

Apparently, the concept of moral relativism and definition of hypocrisy is not as widely understood as I thought.

Why the complaints? Why can't the Europeans simply pass on all these corrupt markets that soooooooooo offend their delicate sensibilities? Stick to trans-atlantic flying. It's the arena where poor service standards and terrible value are considered acceptable anyway.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:45 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 22):

Please stop making these statements in an airline forum. History is replete with such great scenarios already - if these nations don't want to deal with corruption then don't come into that market.

So you're saying the proper way to conduct business in a corrupt locale is playing the same game and perform bribery and money laundering ?

Quoting ytz (Reply 23):
Amazing. Westerners will readily attack India for being corrupt, but then defend wholeheartedly, their airlines right to fly there, while also attacking the ME3 for various standard propaganda items (state ownership of airlines, non-Western labour standards, etc.)

Apparently, the concept of moral relativism and definition of hypocrisy is not as widely understood as I thought.

BA/AF/LH will ALL survive with zero flights to India, but your carrier's *entire* business model will collapse if they're forbidden traffic rights to Europe and North America.

And it's not hypocrisy - I've never step foot on a single ME3 airline. Can you make the same claim about Air Canada ?
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:03 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 24):
So you're saying the proper way to conduct business in a corrupt locale is playing the same game and perform bribery and money laundering ?

Can you explain how not getting a slot at a private airport got to do with government corruption. LH may have announced B748 up-gauge first, but we don't know when they actually applied with BOM. It is up to airport operator to allot gates, nothing to do with government.

Again India adjusted Singapore bi-laterals to allow A380, DGCA approved BOM for A380 ops and SQ was allowed to start A380 both at DEL/BOM. All this happened in less than three weeks from the time India lifted A380 ban. LH is just late to the party.
All posts are just opinions.
 
iyerhari
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:03 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 24):

Corruption is omnipresent and it has nothing to do with first world or second world or hundredth world country. It's called different name everywhere - a sophisticated word is also called lobbying and with a degree of panache. It would be insane to even state money laundering happens in India and not in a so-called 1st degree nation. As regards your suggestion for zero flights to India, pls. provide this guidance to the sales rep and I'm sure they will give it a thought. I unfortunately didn't want to state all this - anyways have a good day!
 
jetblue1965
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:24 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 26):
As regards your suggestion for zero flights to India, pls. provide this guidance to the sales rep and I'm sure they will give it a thought. I

You totally missed my post. I'm sure LH would be in far better shape with zero India flights when EK has zero flights to Germany.

You're painfully mistaken if you think LH's business model lives-or-dies upon BOM/MAA feed.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 27):

You totally missed my post. I'm sure LH would be in far better shape with zero India flights when EK has zero flights to Germany.

You're painfully mistaken if you think LH's business model lives-or-dies upon BOM/MAA feed.

Jetblue1965, if you have some serious issues with India, please stay away from that country.....I'm sure the people of India would be grateful to you.....stop making comments that offend members from that part of the world and do little to contribute to the valuable aviation related information that people seek on this forum....
 
jetblue1965
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:51 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 28):

I don't have a problem with India but I do have a problem with ME3 and their "business practices"

That's why I'm a big supporter of AI joining forces with the likes of LH instead of kow-tow-ing to the emirs
 
PanAm1971
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:00 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 2):
Did LH announce the service before checking with Indian officials, or have the Indian authorities done an about-face on VLA space availability?

Bingo. We have a winner. But I'm sure there is much more to this story. Much more.
 
boeingguy26
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:11 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 5):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):

What a pleasant suprise! Thank you for clarifying that for me. Now I have a chance to see two (2) 748i landings in a day! When did DLH450 begin 748i service?
 
ElPistolero
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:28 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 24):
So you're saying the proper way to conduct business in a corrupt locale is playing the same game and perform bribery and money laundering ?

Without pointing out the blatantly obvious, namely that companies from countries that make the most noise about corruption are more than happy to keep their end of the deal and feed the corrupt system, you're missing the following point:

Does corruption exist in India? Yes.
Is everyone and everything in India corrupt? No.

This leads to questionable statements like this:

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 29):
I don't have a problem with India but I do have a problem with ME3 and their "business practices"

Because of the rather obvious fact that if there is no corrupt official willing to take a bribe, the ME3 "business practices" are irrelevant. I think you'll find that a lot of people are objecting to the assumption that the process was/people involved were corrupt simply by virtue of being in India. Some German poster made that claim without a shred of evidence to back it up. Stereotyping much?

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 27):
You totally missed my post. I'm sure LH would be in far better shape with zero India flights when EK has zero flights to Germany.

Don't know what the point of this is, but given that 85%+ of LH's traffic is sixth freedom, AI and 9W would gain from LH and Germans putting their principles where their mouth is.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 24):
And it's not hypocrisy - I've never step foot on a single ME3 airline. Can you make the same claim about Air Canada ?

If you ve read his posts, you ll realize quickly that he objects to AC because of its anti-open skies policy. That anti-skies approach has been adopted precisely to limit his ability to avoid AC. The logic doesn't add up.
 
727LOVER
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
The airport only has a single VLA capable gate

Sorry to ask...what's VLA?

Very Large Aircraft? Wouldn't 744 fit in that category?


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jetblue1965
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 32):

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 24):
And it's not hypocrisy - I've never step foot on a single ME3 airline. Can you make the same claim about Air Canada ?

If you ve read his posts, you ll realize quickly that he objects to AC because of its anti-open skies policy. That anti-skies approach has been adopted precisely to limit his ability to avoid AC. The logic doesn't add up.

Canada has open skies with fair nations. What he wants is Canada open skies with any nation so he can buy 5cpm fares (possibly priced below cost) while the home carrier AC (that is required to service remote rural communities in the Canadian North) is destroyed.

If Air Koryo sells a ticket from YYZ to South Asia for CAD 150 he might call for open skies too.

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 32):
Don't know what the point of this is, but given that 85%+ of LH's traffic is sixth freedom, AI and 9W would gain from LH and Germans putting their principles where their mouth is.

I have a hard time believing only 15% of LH's traffic is O&D considering how big a destination Germany is.
 
ElPistolero
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
Canada has open skies with fair nations. What he wants is Canada open skies with any nation so he can buy 5cpm fares (possibly priced below cost)

Nobody can sell below cost. The Canadian Competition Bureau takes action when they do. They've already found AC guilty of predation on two routes in Canada.

The US and UK have Open Skies with anyone who desires it, so don't see the issue there. Wouldn't be a first. And I don't think its a stretch to day that the US and UK are better served than Canada.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
he home carrier AC (that is required to service remote rural communities in the Canadian North) is destroyed.

AC is not 'required' to serve any route. Its hardly got any service to the 'remote Canadian North'. It may fit with your narrative but its factually incorrect. The North is served by a host of carriers based in the north.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
I have a hard time believing only 15% of LH's traffic is O&D considering how big a destination Germany is.

87% according to the Indian DGCA, for 2009-2010. That makes it the latest sixth freedom carrier (EK 59, BA 61, SQ 49). Doubt its changed by note than a couple of percentage points.

http://wap.business-standard.com/art...oked-air-india-111091200033_1.html
 
jetblue1965
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 35):
87% according to the Indian DGCA, for 2009-2010. That makes it the latest sixth freedom carrier (EK 59, BA 61, SQ 49). Doubt its changed by note than a couple of percentage points.

That's 87% (or 85%) of LH's traffic out of India. Your original post made it sound like 85% of LH systemwide is transfer. EK/QR out of Canada is probably north of 95% transfer.

And to quote your linked article :

* * Experts agree with the CAG view. “Sixth freedom rights given to international carriers like Emirates and Etihad were one-sided. The same rights were not asked for Air India. So, it was never a level playing field for the national carrier.

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 35):

Nobody can sell below cost. The Canadian Competition Bureau takes action when they do. They've already found AC guilty of predation on two routes in Canada.

That only applies to companies that have their books open to see. QR can sell below cost and no one can prove them right or wrong. Considering most airlines have net profit margins below 5%, do you think 5cpm fares would even break even ? It might be above the "marginal" cost but has a good chance of below total cost when you factor in fixed costs.
 
SATexan
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 27):
You totally missed my post. I'm sure LH would be in far better shape with zero India flights when EK has zero flights to Germany.

How so? Without the India feed the FRA -DFW/ATL flights would be toast. SFO/ SEA will take big hits. IAH won't be an A380 destination etc..,LH model may not necessarily live-or-die upon BOM/MAA/BLR/HYD/PNQ/DEL feed but their North American network as it is currently structured (coupled with US airways bolting to OW) will be weakened if they have zero flights to India. Further, LH has a very loyal base in India and is also the ONLY Star Alliance carrier from Europe with substantial presence in India having upto 50 weekly flights. The number crawls up to 65+ if you include Swiss Air and Austrian. So if LH has zero flights to India the entire star alliance will be in a little bit of trouble network wise
 
jetblue1965
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting SATexan (Reply 37):
How so? Without the India feed the FRA -DFW/ATL flights would be toast. SFO/ SEA will take big hits. IAH won't be an A380 destination etc..,LH model may not necessarily live-or-die upon BOM/MAA/BLR/HYD/PNQ/DEL feed but their North American network as it is currently structured (coupled with US airways bolting to OW) will be weakened if they have zero flights to India. Further, LH has a very loyal base in India and is also the ONLY Star Alliance carrier from Europe with substantial presence in India having upto 50 weekly flights. The number crawls up to 65+ if you include Swiss Air and Austrian. So if LH has zero flights to India the entire star alliance will be in a little bit of trouble network wise

I'm not saying it's good for LH to cancel it, but by relativity, LH will suffer less compared to EK. LH cutoff from India is a knife cut, but EK cutoff from Germany is a gun wound.

The whole notion that ME3 lowers fares is a short-term fallacy. As another posted said in another thread, they're just the Walmart - come into town, ruin the local offerings, then back to regular prices when no more competitors left. Case in point - the ME3 is very close to killing KLM off DFW-AMS route, and thus 1 less choice for European-bound consumers.

Side note : FRA-HYD has been cancelled already IIRC.
 
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gennadius
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RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:43 pm

This article seems to imply that, for some reason, EK having 6 flights and LH having only 2, meant that EK won out on who got to actually utilize the Code F gate.

It also mentions LH starting the 747-8 on the FRA-JFK route, and wonders if the two moves are linked in any way.

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ElPistolero
Posts: 2248
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 36):
That's 87% (or 85%) of LH's traffic out of India. Your original post made it sound like 85% of LH systemwide is transfer.

My mistake. Either which way, LH needs India more than India needs LH (or access to Germany, for that matter). India is its second or third biggest market?

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 36):
EK/QR out of Canada is probably north of 95% transfer.

Couldn't care less. I don't believe that people of a country are the property (for lack of a better word) of specific carriers.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 36):
* * Experts agree with the CAG view. “Sixth freedom rights given to international carriers like Emirates and Etihad were one-sided. The same rights were not asked for Air India. So, it was never a level playing field for the national carrier.

All of those carriers carry a smaller proportion of sixth freedom traffic than LH. The CAG folk are upset about the way Indian carriers aren't using up their allocation. Probably should look no further than the government, with its support for loss-making AI and its absurd taxes on fuel.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 36):
That only applies to companies that have their books open to see.

Tariffs/Prices are covered in bilateral agreements and subject to government approval and competition laws.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 38):
The whole notion that ME3 lowers fares is a short-term fallacy. As another posted said in another thread, they're just the Walmart - come into town, ruin the local offerings, then back to regular prices when no more competitors left.


Good thing there's 3 or 4 Walmarts then.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 38):
Case in point - the ME3 is very close to killing KLM off DFW-AMS route, and thus 1 less choice for European-bound consumers.

Thats a function of the market. If there's not enough consumers to support that route, thats just how it goes. Should the people not choosing KL be forced to fly it by restricting other choices?

Quoting gennadius (Reply 39):

This article seems to imply that, for some reason, EK having 6 flights and LH having only 2, meant that EK won out on who got to actually utilize the Code F gate.

It doesn't add up. India allowed 748s for a while before it allowed 380s into the market. LH had an advantage in that respect. Instead they waited and EK took it. Now they have to wait another year till more spots are open.

In any event, our German friends haven't bothered backing up their "There is corruption in India, so this process must have been corrupt" claim. Looks far more likely that LH dropped the ball on this one, but in typical fashion, it's the ME3s fault.

[Edited 2014-07-08 15:15:33]
 
Nimish
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:22 am

Sad to see that LH is not bringing the 748 to BOM. As Ojas mentioned, they had the first "right of refusal", so it's probably something LH decided on based on loads/ projections of FRA-BOM vs. FRA-JFK. A/c swap to match demand is normal - so I'm not sure what the hoo-haa is all about?
Incredible India!
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:26 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 33):
Sorry to ask...what's VLA?

Very Large Aircraft? Wouldn't 744 fit in that category?

Wingspan and the length of the fuselage constitute definitions of VLA.

The 748 has the longest fuselage of any commercial airframe, so it needs VLA parking.
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seahawk
Posts: 10014
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:41 am

EK is probably the more important service provider and was preferred. It is typical German arrogance to think that they deserve to get the parking spot.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:29 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 43):
EK is probably the more important service provider and was preferred. It is typical German arrogance to think that they deserve to get the parking spot.

  

let's not call it arrogance...

I mean what market is the EK flight servicing, compared to the LH flight?

I'm talking about connections, etc.
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jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:40 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 40):

Hahha nice try but I'm not German (or even European at all)

Your walmart carrier can ruin local airlines all they want for governments dumb enough to let the wolf enter the sheep shack while I applaud china canada and Germany for keeping them at bay
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8742
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:42 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 43):
EK is probably the more important service provider and was preferred. It is typical German arrogance to think that they deserve to get the parking spot.

LH didn't complain about the situation, they just stated the reason. Personally I wish LH got the slot, but I am a OK with first come first serve policy. Issue I have with some of the posts was pulling out government corruption card for a LH/BOM foobar.

Its like blaming German government if an airline cannot get FRA slot. Not a good argument.
All posts are just opinions.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2248
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

RE: LH Cancels BOM B748 Plan - No Available Parking

Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 45):
Hahha nice try but I'm not German (or even European at all)

Your walmart carrier can ruin local airlines all they want for governments dumb enough to let the wolf enter the sheep shack while I applaud china canada and Germany for keeping them at bay

The German I was referring to was the same one you quoted in your first post.

Applaud all you want - if the ME3 are wolves, 'home' carriers aren't any better. At least the foreign wolves try to lure consumers with better products as opposed to home carriers that think they they have a birthright to citizens of their country. Consumers aren't property of airlines based on their geographic location.

I ve never understood the Walmart analogy either. Any pretense of it ever having a monopoly is undermined by the reality that there are many stores/airlines just like it.

Indian airlines may not be better off for the liberal rights afforded to the likes of LH and EK, but Indians are.

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