Better Ways To Get Off A Plane

yv773p · Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:33 pm

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/8/5877863/...aign=ezraklein&utm_content=tuesday

The article on Vox talks about how inefficient deplaning is in the US. According to them the most efficient and plausible solution is to use two doors to exit the aircraft. In Burbank is common practice to use the aft doors, and I believe B6 uses the aft door in LAS too. How come this trend hasn't caught on in US airport? Specially the ones that see heavy LCC traffic like FLL, BWI, DAL, etc.

PS:
AA uses the aft doors for 757 at EGE too.

SonomaFlyer · Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:40 pm

The problem is that in most cases, jet bridges are used. To enplane/deplane from front and back require two bridges and there's that thing called the wing that is in the way.

For airports where stairs are used, the front and back method works great. We use it here at STS (though the Dash 8 only seats 76) and the boarding process is fast.

Most airports couldn't accommodate two bridges at every gate, especially narrow body gates where the space between planes is tighter. Then there is the cost of the second (longer) back bridge, then the logistics of avoiding the wing which may be of different widths depending on the plane.

TWA772LR · Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:42 pm

Especially for the bigger aircraft. My airline flies 77Ws and it takes FOREVER to deplane that bird! The US needs those over-the-wing jetbridges that they have in AMS.

When I flew FRA-EWR in January, we boarded thought the L2 and rear-most door on the left via air stairs. It was very efficient. I think the same manner was used in deplaning the flight that was the inbound.

yv773p · Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:47 pm

They don't need two bridges they can do what JQ does in SYD and use stairs for the back half and the bridge for the front half. I guess most airports in the US don't have easy access to the ramp from the terminal.

DexSwart · Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting yv773p (Reply 3):
JQ does in SYD

Yeah, I agree. A lot of airlines do it here in MEL as well. VA comes to mind.

Quoting yv773p (Reply 3):
I guess most airports in the US don't have easy access to the ramp from the terminal.

We used the stairs built into the jet bridge. All jet bridges have them.

UALFAson · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:14 pm

The article is interesting, but the problem is that, while these ideas may work well in theory, implementing them and changing ingrained passenger behavior could be more trouble than they're worth.

I do think using rear stairs and two doors may be helpful but it presents additional challenges as well. First you have to have the equipment (stairs), then you need someone to push/drive them in place, then you need at least a couple of employees to direct traffic, provide security, etc.

The US Shuttle at DCA uses rear stairs still, as I discovered last week. Although by the time I went out the back of the plane, lugged my carry on down the air stairs, walked in a biiiiiig loop across the tarmac to avoid the engines, and lugged my carry on up two flights of stairs and into the terminal, I wonder if it wouldn't have been faster (and certainly much easier) to just wait and walk out the jet bridge at the front.

DocLightning · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:29 pm

The issue is that for most larger aircraft disembarkation and boarding are not the limiting steps. For the 753 they might be, but for the 77W, for example, arrival and departure might be separated by 2-3 hours. Boarding takes 30-45 minutes and disembarkation 20-30.

For smaller aircraft on shorter domestic flights, this might save some turn time. If that time saved allows for enough extra aircraft utilization to justify the capital expenditure of the extra jet ramp (or the stairs and the path to the terminal and all the security and logistical issues that entails) then airlines might start using it. So far, they have not.

cageyjames · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm

This is the quickest way to get off.

DTWPurserBoy · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):

The problem is that in most cases, jet bridges are used. To enplane/deplane from front and back require two bridges and there's that thing called the wing that is in the way.

Watch the original movie "Airport." They used two jet bridges on the 707. I remember seeing that at the old Pan Am Worldport way back when and later the International Terminal had the "over-wing" jetbridges that used door 4L on the 747.

SonomaFlyer · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:51 pm

AMS has some of these over wing jet bridges. In order for airports in the U.S. to employ them will require MILLIONS of dollars and big questions need to be answered as to whether the existing narrow body gates can accommodate a second bridge.

The big gates (Cat V and VI) should be able to handle them but its still lots of work and lots of $$. The question is, who will pay for these changes? The airport authorities in the US aren't well funded for the most part and they don't really care about shaving a few minutes off boarding/deplaning. I think the airlines themselves would have to foot most of the bill and fat chance of that happening.

cageyjames · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:53 pm

Before they built the connector buildings at LAX they used to have 707s line up parallel to the islands so you could use two jetways. Totally inefficient on space but probably was pretty nice for the passengers. Some good pictures of the UA terminal.

http://jonproctor.net/lax-through-the-years/

Dallas · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 5):
The US Shuttle at DCA uses rear stairs still, as I discovered last week. Although by the time I went out the back of the plane, lugged my carry on down the air stairs, walked in a biiiiiig loop across the tarmac to avoid the engines, and lugged my carry on up two flights of stairs and into the terminal, I wonder if it wouldn't have been faster (and certainly much easier) to just wait and walk out the jet bridge at the front.

And to add to that, I think doing all of that in the middle of summer in Dallas (100+ degrees) or in the middle of winter in Chicago (snow, cold) would be a nightmare. I would much rather wait and use the jet bridge, even if it adds an additional 5 minutes.

Rdh3e · Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:36 pm

http://www.aviationpros.com/news/103...ns-to-use-new-jetways-after-mishap

As in everything aviation, it's been tried before.

Unlike the paradise of MEL/SYD we get actual bad weather here

which causes people to not want to use the stairs.

global2 · Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 5):

The article is interesting, but the problem is that, while these ideas may work well in theory, implementing them and changing ingrained passenger behavior could be more trouble than they're worth.

The 727 had the perfect answer to this question: it had its own airstairs in the rear. I can recall several times in the 80's hearing the FA announcement that we could exit via the rear stairs and thinking "oh, goody!"

ua900 · Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:24 am

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 10):
Before they built the connector buildings at LAX they used to have 707s line up parallel to the islands so you could use two jetways. Totally inefficient on space but probably was pretty nice for the passengers. Some good pictures of the UA terminal.

Great pics, thanks for sharing.

Quoting yv773p (Thread starter):
The article on Vox talks about how inefficient deplaning is in the US. According to them the most efficient and plausible solution is to use two doors to exit the aircraft. In Burbank is common practice to use the aft doors, and I believe B6 uses the aft door in LAS too. How come this trend hasn't caught on in US airport? Specially the ones that see heavy LCC traffic like FLL, BWI, DAL, etc.

BUR has the advantage of seeing mostly CRJs while WN and AS 737s tends to use both front and rear doors. For airlines only using one door, e.g. a CO 737 at BQN, it takes much longer but is probably cheaper.

Stitch · Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:53 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
The problem is that in most cases, jet bridges are used. To enplane/deplane from front and back require two bridges and there's that thing called the wing that is in the way.

UA tried dual jet-bridges at DEN that could reach the fore and aft doors of the A320 and 757 and it did cut times by around a third. However a malfunction damaged a 757 and UA decided to scrap the system within a year.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?d...c1d230-76a9-4aea-a7e2-d609077f5615

Notty · Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:02 am

NZ often uses stairs and jet bridge for boarding on domestic flights

cessna53996 · Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:33 am

I know ALB has a jetway that goes to the front door and the aft door by going over the wing, it's pretty wild! I've seen B6 use forward jetway and rear airstairs deplaning in TPA if the weather is playing nicely.

cschleic · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:04 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 12):
Unlike the paradise of MEL/SYD we get actual bad weather here which causes people to not want to use the stairs.

Horizon uses front and rear doors on its Q 400's and, in many cities served, the weather can be lousy. But we're used to it in the Northwest!

MesaFlyGuy · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:09 am

In February of 2012 I almost got to deplane a B6 a320 at PBI via airstairs, however my seatmates took their sweet time getting into the aisle and they closed the back door right before I got to get up.

CO777DAL · Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:39 pm

Now that I think about it, I have deplane and boarded using airstairs a lot. Lots of foreign flight and there are still lots of airports without jet bridges. Here are a few photos and videos of that. If your fly United Express at IAH most of it is via stairs now.

Here is a video of us deplaning a United 787 in Houston via Airstairs and this was the back of the plane.
Deplaning United Airlines 787-8 Dreamliner via Airstairs Houston Texas Boeing s Continental
http://youtu.be/LJ9vb6ROzKg

PHX HD Continental Airlines 757-300 Deplaning via Airstairs in Phoenix Boeing
http://youtu.be/Ki1H2oB8Hfc

PAE HD More Continental Airlines 757-300 Deplaning via Airstairs at Paine Field Boeing
http://youtu.be/0Oxk8na9U3c

Of course in Doha before the new terminal open all the Qatar Airways flights use airstairs.
HD Boarding & Inside Qatar Airway 787-8 Dreamliner via AirStairs Doha Airport Boeing
http://youtu.be/wcj9uM5zhSA

yv773p · Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:48 pm

I know the over-the-wing-jetways are expensive and clunky, but I'm talking about walking down from the jetway to the apron around the aircraft, and up the airstairs in the back. I imagine TSA doesn't like having people in the apron if there is no need for them to be there.

Different question: how come in many European and Latin American airports they put an airstair in the back door for cleaning and in the US they do not?

http://www.moodiereport.com/images2/munich_airport_600px_dec09.jpg

DTWPurserBoy · Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:53 pm

IIRC the JFK overwing jet bridges had a couple of unfortunate "drops" where wings were punctured and they were not used for quite a long time after that.

xaapb · Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting Global2 (Reply 13):
The 727 had the perfect answer to this question: it had its own airstairs in the rear. I can recall several times in the 80's hearing the FA announcement that we could exit via the rear stairs and thinking "oh, goody

I remember that with MX 727 and some AM Maddog as many airports in Mexico dosen't have jetbridges, good old times!

Greetings

lhrnue · Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:11 pm

Quoting yv773p (Thread starter):
According to them the most efficient and plausible solution is to use two doors to exit the aircraft.

Wow. How long did it take to figure that out?

pasu129 · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:00 pm

Quoting yv773p (Thread starter):
I believe B6 uses the aft door in LAS too

I can assure you that B6 doesn't use aft doors for boarding and deplane in LAS, since they are using only 1 jetty for both functions.

BUR is the only airport I've been to in US uses aft door for such.

AMS is the only other International airport I know of that uses aft doors for such as well.

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Photo © Nick de Jonge - Skeyesphoto

32andBelow · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:02 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 25):
BUR is the only airport I've been to in US uses aft door for such.

I've seen B6 do it at LGB

yv773p · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:07 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 25):
I can assure you that B6 doesn't use aft doors for boarding and deplane in LAS, since they are using only 1 jetty for both functions.

I meant they use stairs in the aft door and jetway on the front. I believe I saw it on a trip report.

N14AZ · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:29 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 14):

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 10):
Before they built the connector buildings at LAX they used to have 707s line up parallel to the islands so you could use two jetways. Totally inefficient on space but probably was pretty nice for the passengers. Some good pictures of the UA terminal.

Great pics, thanks for sharing.

I want to say thank you for that link as well! Great pictures I have never seen before.

briguychau · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 25):
BUR is the only airport I've been to in US uses aft door for such.

AMS is the only other International airport I know of that uses aft doors for such as well.

YVR also has them (but only in approx. 2 of the gates used for domestic WS flights). I think YYC used to have them too, but were removed.

pasu129 · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting yv773p (Reply 27):
I meant they use stairs in the aft door and jetway on the front. I believe I saw it on a trip report.

That might be just for servicing the plane, now that B6 uses T3 in LAS, aft doors are not being used for service nor passengers.

tockeyhockey · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:58 pm

how about a gullwing hinge along the entire body of the airplane that allows you to load and unload passengers as if they were getting on a roller coaster? line up in your rows, sit down, and go.

would add weight, i know. but would also reduce turnaround times by 90 percent!

rfields5421 · Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 8):
Watch the original movie "Airport." They used two jet bridges on the 707. I remember seeing that at the old Pan Am Worldport way back when and later the International Terminal had the "over-wing" jetbridges that used door 4L on the 747.

In the days of prop liners, the pilots would turn the aircraft and park parallel to the terminal. That avoided the need for a pushback because the aircraft could start up and turn away from the terminal. Early jet liners also parked that way.

But airports and airlines decided it was inefficient to use that much space for one aircraft, when head in and pushback could put three or four aircraft in the space formerly used for two.

Quoting yv773p (Reply 3):
I guess most airports in the US don't have easy access to the ramp from the terminal.

Correct. There are many gates in the US with easy access, but handicapped access is a problem. At SDF at one gate I've boarded an MD-80 through the jet bridge, and had a set of stairs pushed up to the end of the jet bridge so we could walk down to the ramp and board an ERJ-140 on a different day.

Also the US TSA would have a fit if airlines started wanting to put more and more people on the ramp area.

PresRDC · Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 22):
IIRC the JFK overwing jet bridges had a couple of unfortunate "drops" where wings were punctured and they were not used for quite a long time after that.

I've never saw them being used and cannot find a single photo on this site of them ever being used. Several years before the old Eat and West Wing departures buildings were torn down, they replaced the original dual jetbridges with a single jetbridge.

MesaFlyGuy · Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:41 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 25):
I can assure you that B6 doesn't use aft doors for boarding and deplane in LAS, since they are using only 1 jetty for both functions.

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 30):
That might be just for servicing the plane, now that B6 uses T3 in LAS, aft doors are not being used for service nor passengers.

When they did it on my arrival at PBI, it was jetway on the front and airstairs on the back.

ckfred · Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:24 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 8):
Watch the original movie "Airport." They used two jet bridges on the 707. I remember seeing that at the old Pan Am Worldport way back when and later the International Terminal had the "over-wing" jetbridges that used door 4L on the 747.

In the 1960s, TWA used to park Boeing 707s and Convairs parallel, rather than perpedicular to the G Concourse at ORD. I remember boarding a 707 for MKC via the jet bridge to the rear door.

At MKC, there used to be 2 sets of stairs rolled up to the 707s, while coach passengers on a 727 used the stairs that lowered from under the #2 engine.

The problem today is that there are planes that would be hard to deplane via a rear set of stairs. While the MD-80 has a rear set of stairs in the tail, could you imagine people trying to carry rollerboards un what is a very narrow staircase?

The F100s didn't have any sort of rear access to the cabin. Even though AA's max configuration was 97 seats, it did take a while to board and deplane a full cabin.

isp2 · Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:59 am

B6 routinely rear deplanes at gates F4, F5, F9, F10 in FLL, and rear boards during "tight turns". They have done this in FLL since their days at T1. Several weeks back I was on the 8pm FLL-BDL flight and rear boarding was offered - a real treat.

DocLightning · Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:59 am

UA used to rear-disembark at SBA when they flew their Shuttle 737s there. It was wonderful. Almost as fast as getting off a train.

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