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dfwjim1
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787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:28 pm

Are there any plans for United States and/or Asian airlines to fly 787s on a scheduled basis to the Hawaiian Islands particularly from smaller metro areas?
 
hiloboy1
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:35 pm

According to Flightaware Japan Air Lines 784 is a 788 to Honolulu.

[Edited 2014-07-10 16:41:13]
 
747400sp
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:38 pm

I thought JAL had 787 service to HNL for a short time.
 
flyinggoat
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:46 pm

I'm sure we'll see U.S. based 787s there eventually, but probably not from smaller metro areas. Those routes will probably continue to be served by A320s, 737s, and the 757RS (if that actually happens).

Just my $.02.

[Edited 2014-07-10 16:47:57]
 
superjeff
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:55 pm

JetStar from Sydney and Melbourne
 
bchandl
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting flyinggoat (Reply 3):
I'm sure we'll see U.S. based 787s there eventually, but probably not from smaller metro areas. Those routes will probably continue to be served by A320s, 737s, and the 757RS (if that actually happens).

Just my $.02.

I think Eastern US - Hawaii is likely. The same way you will see HA throw an A350 on JFK-HNL.
 
TUSDawg23
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:57 pm

Southeast Asia seems to be experiencing quite an uptick in air traffic, but I think a large portion of that growth is domestic/regional flying. DL, HA, and JL are the only carriers right now flying from secondary Asian markets to HNL (FUK, NGO, CTS, SDJ). It wouldn't surprise me to see DL eventually swap out its 763 HNL-Japan flights to 787's, but we'd be looking at the next decade for that to start happening with the 18 787's on order. JL may also deploy a 787 on its NGO route. HA seems to have bet on the A350 over the 787.
 
AirNiugini
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:03 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 4):

And hopefully BNE too.  
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aerorobnz
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:26 am

NZ 789 from AKL eventually. The 763s go completely once all arrive in 2016.
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:56 am

Just spitballing, but if AA deemphasizes PHX, maybe they'd fly a 787 from there. Maybe DL from MSP. I think the 787 won't fly to HNL from LAX, IAH, DFW or ATL. (I'd love DFW-KOA   )

Maybe Westjet, if the widebody order mentioned elsewhere comes to fruition.
 
S75752
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:56 am

Perhaps a UA substitution, tossing in a 788 in place of a 764 or 772 sometime.
 
rampbro
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:59 am

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 9):
Maybe Westjet, if the widebody order mentioned elsewhere comes to fruition.

...and if they start doing it, how long until AC put theirs on it?
 
Viscount724
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:04 am

Quoting rampbro (Reply 11):
Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 9):
Maybe Westjet, if the widebody order mentioned elsewhere comes to fruition.

...and if they start doing it, how long until AC put theirs on it?

787 is a very expensive aircraft for a low-yield leisure market with almost no business traffic. It's also a waste of the 787's very long range. Even east coast-Hawaii is well within 767 range.

Hawaii visitors don't choose an airline based on the aircraft type but on who has the lowest fare. Look at the thousands of passengers quite happy to fly on a WS 737 to Hawaii when they could also choose an AC 763.
 
bchandl
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
787 is a very expensive aircraft for a low-yield leisure market with almost no business traffic. It's also a waste of the 787's very long range. Even east coast-Hawaii is well within 767 range.

East Coast USA to HNL is 4500-5000mi, LAX-NRT is only 5400nm. Sure other LAX-ASIA routes are longer than NRT but the point is East Coast - HNL is nothing to sneeze at as the westbound flights can often clock in at > 10hrs, longer in the northern hemisphere winter season.

A 767-300 ER could make it, but non-er doesn't stand a chance. Obviously the 764 does it fine, UA runs a daily RT IAD-HNL with the 764.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Hawaii visitors don't choose an airline based on the aircraft type but on who has the lowest fare. Look at the thousands of passengers quite happy to fly on a WS 737 to Hawaii when they could also choose an AC 763.

One could make the argument that your most efficient birds are best placed in routes that have smaller or negative margins as it allows you to create or grow positive margins and better protect your route against pricing strategies of your competitors.

I'm not saying it is the move airlines should make, I'm just saying I can easily make a logical argument for it.
 
Viscount724
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:50 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 13):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
787 is a very expensive aircraft for a low-yield leisure market with almost no business traffic. It's also a waste of the 787's very long range. Even east coast-Hawaii is well within 767 range.

East Coast USA to HNL is 4500-5000mi, LAX-NRT is only 5400nm. Sure other LAX-ASIA routes are longer than NRT but the point is East Coast - HNL is nothing to sneeze at as the westbound flights can often clock in at > 10hrs, longer in the northern hemisphere winter season.

A 767-300 ER could make it, but non-er doesn't stand a chance. Obviously the 764 does it fine, UA runs a daily RT IAD-HNL with the 764.

I was referring to ER 767s. There can't be many non-ERs still being being operated by U.S.passenger carriers, probably only the 15 or so non-ER 763s still with DL (of 28 originally delivered). And fleet lists show HA with 3 ex-DL non-ER 763s. DL was the only U.S. customer for the non-ER 763.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Hawaii visitors don't choose an airline based on the aircraft type but on who has the lowest fare. Look at the thousands of passengers quite happy to fly on a WS 737 to Hawaii when they could also choose an AC 763.

Well, in 1988 I asked my travel agent (yes, travel agent!) for three iteneraries OMA-ITO:

1. How much for Delta (attm I had a relative that worked for them).
2. How much to get on a 747.
3. Cheapest.

From Omaha, most people then and probably now flew United. But turned out TW OMA-STL-HNL (then Aloha) was cheapest. So I got my 741!
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:52 am

Once UA retires the 77A and 764, I'm sure they will send the 787 to the islands.
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ha763
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:00 am

Quoting hiloboy1 (Reply 1):
According to Flightaware Japan Air Lines 784 is a 788 to Honolulu.
Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
I thought JAL had 787 service to HNL for a short time.

JAL currently has 2 flights using the 787. JL786/785 and JL784/783, both NRT-HNL.

Eventually, ANA will also be using their 787s to HNL.

Quoting rampbro (Reply 11):
...and if they start doing it, how long until AC put theirs on it?

When AC transfers 787s to Rouge. All of AC's Hawaii routes will be turned over to Rouge in November for HNL and December for OGG.
 
mildaiv
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:05 am

If Airbus cancel A358 and HA switch to B787 than you will see lot of them in HNL  
 
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airportugal310
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:15 am

Quoting mildaiv (Reply 18):

I kind of doubt it. If the A358 falls through, and there's no conclusive proof that it will, then the A330NEO might be a decent replacement. Just my opinion

It's key to note that the A358 isn't due on property for HA until 2017 or so, therefore there is no immediate rush to replace it with anything else depending on the carriers plans (though obviously delivery slots come Into play). And who knows what comes out from Boeing or Airbus in the near future.

[Edited 2014-07-11 02:18:47]
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point2point
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 16):
Once UA retires the 77A and 764, I'm sure they will send the 787 to the islands.

Are the 752 flying DEN-Hawaii starting to get old? And maybe these routes can upgrade to 787s once the 752s are tin-canned, and UA gets a few more 787s? Even though UA isn't really looking for their 787s to be on domestic routes, a DEN-HNL-NRT-DEN or such could work in the future?

 
 
roseflyer
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:00 pm

Hawaii tends to get the oldest planes from most US airlines. The 787 is going to get the latest and greatest business class product, which is not a good match for the Hawaii market. With the exception of UA which had a dedicated Hawaii fleet, the US airlines are flying narrowbodies, 757s and 767s. Before the 767s, airlines were flying DC10s. I think Hawaii was the last destination that airlines like UA and NW were flying DC10s to.

One day we’ll see 787s out of the mainland US to Hawaii, but it will take some time before their onboard product matches the Hawaii market.

Jetstar and the Japanese airlines have high density 787s. I think that’s where you’ll see them flying from. NZ also will probably send a 787 from AKL.
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stxbohn
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
Are the 752 flying DEN-Hawaii starting to get old?

A 752 from DEN-HNL seemed odd to me. Right now, it looks like they're flying a 777 but come winter, sure enough it is a 752. Anyone know if these are the exCO T/A birds that do the route or are they one of the few exUA ETOPS birds?

Also EWR-HNL is blocked at 10:45 to 11 hrs. Continental has flown the route with 764s since they entered the fleet in 2002ish. How often do they see payload restrictions? This seems to me that it'd be at the limit of the 764's legs.
 
pdxswa
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:23 pm

Some of JAL 787 operations at HNL.

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Photo © Bill Shemley

 
roseflyer
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting stxbohn (Reply 22):
A 752 from DEN-HNL seemed odd to me. Right now, it looks like they're flying a 777 but come winter, sure enough it is a 752. Anyone know if these are the exCO T/A birds that do the route or are they one of the few exUA ETOPS birds?

UA has 16 ETOPS 757s that fly to Hawaii from SFO, LAX, DEN and on rare occasion SEA & SAN. IT will be a long time before 787s end up going to HNL on UA in my opinion, but they would be the smallest plane that could make it from DEN once the 757 and 767 are retired.
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bchandl
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:57 pm

Quoting mildaiv (Reply 18):
If Airbus cancel A358 and HA switch to B787 than you will see lot of them in HNL  

That's a bit of a stretch. They're more likely to get A to sweeten the deal, maybe give them A359 for the same cost? Maybe that is a little unrealistic but Airbus will definitely want to keep them in there back pocket.

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
Are the 752 flying DEN-Hawaii starting to get old?

UA is running the 772 between DEN-HNL.

If you want a 757 it is DEN-SFO-HNL, all on the 757.

bchandl
 
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csturdiv
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:46 pm

While it is not an Asian or American carrier, didn't at one point JQ plan on operating the B788 into HNL?
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covert
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 26):
didn't at one point JQ plan on operating the B788 into HNL?

When Jetstar gets enough 787s, they will give their A332s back to QF. The JQ HNL service will then evidently become 788 service.
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RWA380
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:30 am

In one of the countless threads about a LHR-HNL route being feasible, it was suggested that Monarch could be considering the route 2x weekly, although I highly doubt it, given the multitude of legitimate reasons ULH flying to lower yielding markets doesn't work.
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Motorhussy
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RE: 787 To Hawaiian Islands In The Future?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:02 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 25):
Airbus will definitely want to keep them in there back pocket.

You seriously think Airbus has some corrupting influence over HA, and that the airline's fleet selection is not based on merit? I personally think Airbus had better tread very carefully with HA if they cancel the A358. Their requirent is for a plane over long thin routes for which the 789 will also be a very good choice. The A330NEO doesn't look like it will have the legs, it would compete directly with the A350 if it did.
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