Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
nomorerjs
Topic Author
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:37 am

O&D / Connections make this possible, but economical? DFW has flights to CMI, PIA, SPI, MLI, etc., one would think ORD could serve a few southern markets to the east?
 
lx2iah
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:01 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:55 am

I would think an E175 on SHV to both ORD & CLT would work 1-2x daily with the new AA. If UA can fly SHV-DEN full every day with E135/145, AA should be able to make it work.

LX2IAH
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8063
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:21 am

DFW is a much larger hub and offers a lot more connecting flows to those markets that ORD.

The opposite is not always true.
 
DeltaXNA
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:38 am

BTR: this has a good chance with a 50 seater most likely.
SHV: good chance with a CR7 or a 50 seater.
MFE: there's always a chance, but I don't see this happening.
AMA: a daily CR7 would work I think.
LBB: same as MFE, could happen, but probably not.
GRI: A CR7 could work.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:47 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Thread starter):
one would think ORD could serve a few southern markets to the east?

How many of those cities you mention are to the southeast of ORD? SHV....no, BTR......no, AMA......no, MFE.....no, LBB....no, GRI.....no

[Edited 2014-07-10 20:23:52]
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
mhkansan
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:02 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 3):
GRI: A CR7 could work.

This is an EAS market with 2x ERJ service to DFW only. If they get ORD service, which is a huge leap because it would have to be unsubsidized or part of the next EAS bid, it's not going to have a premium cabin lol.

If one of AA's EAS cities has the possibility of ORD service it would probably be JLN, which has done fine for AA as an EAS market, but still only has two flights a day. AA may even make money on those EAS routes, but they're not going to say no to the $1-3 million in annual subsidies so they can fly another unprofitable ORD link. Only if it makes them a more competitive bidder against the likes of Seaport, Great Lakes, or another legacy express bid.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:28 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 3):

I can't see AA wasting a CR7 on GRI.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:02 am

I don't see this happening. DFW is perfect for those flights and AA has DFW pretty well connected to be able to bypass ORD on these flights. I don't really think they gain much by making the adds. And not to stray off topic, but I saw that starting August 1 MLI will start to see a CR7 on the last turn of the evening. Apparently they're doing well enough in these markets from DFW to warrant it, and it'll be nice to break up the monotony of the ERJs (though I almost feel bad for even saying that).
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:09 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 3):
GRI: A CR7 could work.

Do you have Grand Island Nebraska mixed up with another airports code?
 
DeltaXNA
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:22 am

[quote=kcrwflyer,reply=8]Do you have Grand Island Nebraska mixed up with another airports code? [/quote

Oops....I was thinking Grand Junction GJT. Yeah, GRI will only work with an ERJ. My mistake lol.

So yes, GRI would work from ORD I bet.
 
mhkansan
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:17 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 9):
Oops....I was thinking Grand Junction GJT. Yeah, GRI will only work with an ERJ. My mistake lol.

So yes, GRI would work from ORD I bet.

I don't see why AA would fly ORD-GJT before ORD-COS. ORD-COS would be a great ERJ, CRJ, or E75 route. I guess the UA base is too strong there but I always see lots of premium traffic on the mainline DFW-COS services and those flights are often full.
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:47 am

Honestly from a passenger count/ yield prospective, yes. From a looking at the gate constraints/ runway capacity during peak banks at ORD, no.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6171
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting nomorerjs (Thread starter):
ORD could serve a few southern markets to the east?

Some of these have been tried. ORD-SHV was tried but didnt last long. ORD-BTR has been tried before as well. As for the other markets:

ORD-MFE: Never. The Rio Valley is the trash yield capital of the US. Outside DFW and Houston, its impossible to make a dime to the Valley. There are a couple of flights on a seasonal basis from MSP, but thats snowbird traffic only.

ORD-GRI: Potentially. It would be a daily ERJ

ORD-AMA/LBB: Probably not. If ORD were going to receive a flight to West Texas (outside ELP), it would be MAF. That way they could capture some oil traffic. However, those connections are best funnelled closer. But ORD-MAF may work.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:14 pm

Note that most of these suggested markets (including Grand Junction, not Grand Island) are roughly 900-1100 miles as opposed to many DFW trips to smaller IL markets more like 700 miles. Not a sole deciding factor but one more strike against something like LBB-ORD.
 
mhkansan
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:54 pm

On the flip side, I'd like to see more DFW- north routes. LSE applied for and received a SCASD grant for DFW service and I thought that would be a sure winner, but it hasn't yet started.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8063
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:21 pm

The era of launching 50 seat RJ routes of more than 700 miles is over, esepeically in the case of hub over-flying.
 
flight152
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
The era of launching 50 seat RJ routes of more than 700 miles is over, esepeically in the case of hub over-flying.

Oh really? Just like the recent announcement of ISN-IAH and semi new additions like SHV-DEN? What about HDN-IAH?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6171
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
The era of launching 50 seat RJ routes of more than 700 miles is over, esepeically in the case of hub over-flying

AA did launch DFW-BIS.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:40 pm

Although there's a certain aspect of "never say never" the likelihood of new 50-seat RJ routes over about 700 miles is small. ND is a special case with heavy business demand and high fares but for the most part if AMA-ORD was a good RJ market it would have been tried years ago. Pull Southwest out of Midland and move BP headquarters to Chicago and you've got a good case for MAF-ORD on an RJ but that's about what it would probably take.
 
f18raider
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:32 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:13 pm

Speaking of AMA, LBB and MAF, any chance these three older Southwest stations see new service? Maybe AA to PHX?
 
MDW22L31C
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:03 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:35 pm

How UA or AA restoring ORD-ONT
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:43 pm

I would think O&D would play a key role as well as international connections in any of those decisions as domestic connections are best served in closer in hubs (i.e. SHV to IAH).

I also agree with many on here that 50 seat ERJ/CRJ route start ups on these examples of stage length are probably much more difficult to justify from a CASM standpoint. However, UAL doesn't appear to be shy about using ERJ's on similar stage lengths all across the Midwest.

Personally, I'd rather have United Express get their present house in order in terms of reliability before even thinking about trying to add any routes from ORD. Their performance is shameful from an ExpressJet standpoint in regards to maintenance and late arriving crew. Even then, I'd prefer to see a double daily to Denver over going to OHare, unless it is specifically to meet O&D, international feed, or oil and gas feed (which we have lots of).
 
bhmdiversion
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:41 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:38 am

You will never see these routes with UA. DEN-SHV is only to flow a ERJ from the DEN system into the IAH system. Plus, SHV is a heavy mx base for ExpressJet.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8063
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:04 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
The era of launching 50 seat RJ routes of more than 700 miles is over, esepeically in the case of hub over-flying

Unless there are special cases where there is an economic reason to justify the service which wasn't there over the past decade.

North Dakota is a special case due to the oil and gas economic boom. Other markets have not seen grrow as such.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 16):
Oh really? Just like the recent announcement of ISN-IAH and semi new additions like SHV-DEN? What about HDN-IAH?

ISN is a complete special case due to oil and gas.
SHV-DEN is because of airline operations specifically ExpressJet being able to route aircraft to/from the SHV maintenance base.
HDN is a mountain resort market route
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:09 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 22):
DEN-SHV is only to flow a ERJ from the DEN system into the IAH system.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
SHV-DEN is because of airline operations specifically ExpressJet being able to route aircraft to/from the SHV maintenance base.

I just don't see this as true. These flights are operated as continuing flights, not RON's or aircraft swaps. The planes stay in Shreveport for 25 -30 minutes before moving on. In fact, since inception, it has never been a RON/aircraft swap setup.

It's operated because it makes money. I know, I contribute to it regularly with what should be more than adequate fares to pay for the CASM + profit.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 22):
You will never see these routes with UA

That's a dangerous statement to make around here. People probably would have said mainline on Delta would never be back to some of the places it has shown up....uh oh.
 
User avatar
AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 1407
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:31 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:35 pm

For those markets located west of DFW, ORD doesn't really offer anything that DFW doesn't already provide very well.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2157
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:44 pm

DFW, much like ATL, is a megahub or "everything" hub, where markets in the midwest seem to be successfully connected too but the same isnt in reverse for smaller southern markets to ORD. Case in point, AA tired the likes of PNS, VPS, etc to ORD just didnt have the success as the likes of GRI/FSD/MLI, etc to DFW.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
The era of launching 50 seat RJ routes of more than 700 miles is over

Not so fast....

http://www.knoe.com/story/26001497/m...direct-flights-to-denver-this-fall

although I would agree with you from a common sense point-of-view. But we are talking United here.
 
flight152
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
SHV-DEN is because of airline operations specifically ExpressJet being able to route aircraft to/from the SHV maintenance base.

As stated above this is totally incorrect. Not only did ExpressJet do just fine routing aircraft to maintenance before this route, but there's no way United would start a new city pairing just for the sake of making it easier for a regional partner. That's on them to get maintenance done. Also as previously stated, this aircraft flows to SHV to and from DEN via a quick turn to IAH.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:22 pm

Quoting flight152 (Reply 28):
but there's no way United would start a new city pairing just for the sake of making it easier for a regional partner. That's on them to get maintenance done

I am not 100% certain about that. If the route makes no sense what so ever, then yeah youre right. But if the route looks like a profitable add, they might add it. After all would AA fly DFW-CMI and ORD-MQT were it not for the MX bases at those airports? CMI maybe, MQT almost certainly not.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14487
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:23 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 29):
After all would AA fly DFW-CMI and ORD-MQT were it not for the MX bases at those airports? CMI maybe, MQT almost certainly not.

  

STL-SGF was another one, and it was actually more like JFK-BNA/IND-STL-SGF. Toward the end of the STL hub, it was often the only Eagle flight at STL.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:29 am

Please - no to all of these. The last thing O'Hare needs is to be overscheduled even more with more RJ flights that are late or cancelled half the time.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:32 am

As a resident of AMA (as well as a proud Red Raider and former resident of LBB), I really don't see AA or UA starting ORD. UA serves the market quite well with their current flights to IAH and DEN. UA provides very convenient connections both east and west. AA' s DFW megahub covers the markets to the east very well. While I don't see it happening, AA would do better to add AMA/LBB-PHX to make connections to the west more convenient.
 
AAplat4life
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:27 pm

Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 20):
How UA or AA restoring ORD-ONT

UA and AA have not shown any interest in restarting ONT, and seem content in focusing their resources on LAX and SNA. Even WN is down to one flight a day via MDW, and the very early morning departure on the nonstop from ONT is not very convenient. It is a shame because ONT is a decent airport and more convenient to areas like Pasadena, Riverside and even Palm Springs (off season) than LAX.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 26):
DFW, much like ATL, is a megahub or "everything" hub, where markets in the midwest seem to be successfully connected too but the same isnt in reverse for smaller southern markets to ORD. Case in point, AA tired the likes of PNS, VPS, etc to ORD just didnt have the success as the likes of GRI/FSD/MLI, etc to DFW.

It has actually become rather difficult to fly to medium and smaller Southern cities out of ORD. AA used to do GSP, JAN and others from ORD. Even WN has discontinued MDW-JAN (non-stop). Trying to fly from Chicago to MSY has become very expensive with RJs reducing capacity. The airlines want to use their resources elsewhere out of Chicago.
 
bhmdiversion
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:41 pm

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:01 pm

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 24):
That's a dangerous statement to make around here. People probably would have said mainline on Delta would never be back to some of the places it has shown up....uh oh.

Delta and United are 2 MUCH different airlines... DL is very proactive; yet, UA is very reactive. Working the UAX system, I can recall on a first hand account that UA will take the "wait and see approach" to almost every operational issue including weather. A classic example is for a UAX flight to be delayed for WX in ORD, keep all the passengers there in the terminal, then after the Wheels Up times are revised for Mainline aircraft - UA will direct its regionals to take the outstation flights out to WX so the Mainline aircraft can get into ORD.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 28):
As stated above this is totally incorrect. Not only did ExpressJet do just fine routing aircraft to maintenance before this route, but there's no way United would start a new city pairing just for the sake of making it easier for a regional partner. That's on them to get maintenance done. Also as previously stated, this aircraft flows to SHV to and from DEN via a quick turn to IAH.

Once again, this route was built and used for the sole purpose to get the aircraft from the DEN system into the IAH system - nothing was said that the route was built specifically for XE... Only said it was a flow issue.
 
flight152
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 34):
Once again, this route was built and used for the sole purpose to get the aircraft from the DEN system into the IAH system

Oh, right. As if having LBB, ICT, TUL, TUS, MCI, AMA, BHM, OMA, STL, ELP and a whole list of others wasn't enough. Again, this is incorrect.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:08 pm

Quoting flight152 (Reply 35):
Oh, right. As if having LBB, ICT, TUL, TUS, MCI, AMA, BHM, OMA, STL, ELP and a whole list of others wasn't enough. Again, this is incorrect.

Ditto
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Chances Of ORD: BTR, SHV, MFE, AMA, LBB, GRI?

Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:18 pm

Honestly I think we'd see SHV-ORD before BTR-ORD. Both would be on 50 seaters, no question. Since flying RJ's on longer stage lengths is sort of UA's bread and butter nowadays (sad to say), I could see XE operating a daily ORD-SHV turn...not a give in by any means, but doable. I say the odds of that one happening within the next 1-2 years are 60/40. BTR-ORD...more like 50/50. It's a route which has been flown before but didn't cut it long term. I'm bullish on the prospects of increased service for SHV...the market is growing...but the BTR market is actually stagnant. The rapid population growth it saw right after Hurricane Katrina has leveled off as people continue to relocate to the MSY area.

[Edited 2014-07-13 12:18:44]

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos