Delta Discontinues Monrovia

MAH4546 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:06 am

Delta will discontinue service to Monrovia, Liberia on August 31st. The flight operated thrice weekly from New York-JFK via Accra.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201407100889.html

RWA380 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:07 am

Sounds like a solid financial move for DL, from those numbers I can see why they would stop flying to Monrovia. IIRC the last airline that provided direct service to Monrovia from NYC was PA.

Of course us A.netters will notice this immediately, but the 4 photos of the L15 made me laugh a bit, and then sigh as I miss flying widebody tri-jets.

Thanks for sharing the article, bad day for Liberia, and smart financial move on Deltas part.

BreninTW · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:53 am

The numbers in the article don't make sense.

Quote:
While Nigeria and Ghana, two other destinations of Delta Airlines, are netting 10,000,000 and over 2,000,000 passengers per year respectively

That works out at 27,400 passengers PER DAY to Nigeria (10 million divided by 365 days).

That is 34 A380's PER DAY at 800 pax/A380.

Even the claim of 205,000 pax ex Liberia is almost 1 A380's-worth per day.

Even if those numbers include all carriers flying to Nigeria and/or Liberia, that's a significant amount of traffic.

airportugal310 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:55 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):

Agreed 100%...if a flight doesn't live up to expectations, you axe it like a bad habit, pick up the pieces, and look for the next best opportunity

Sadly, though, many on these boards will crucify an airline by saying they did poor planning etc...

But let's face it...nothing in this world is expected except for the obvious

klwright69 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:43 am

So what are all of DL's routes to Africa now?

JFK-ACC
ATL-ACC
ATL-LOS
ATL-DAK-JBG

Did they ever start Luanda?
Did they discontinue Abuja, Nigeria?

[Edited 2014-07-11 03:00:29]

panamair · Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 4):
So what are all of DL's routes to Africa now?

JFK-ACC
ATL-ACC
ATL-LOS
ATL-DAK-JBG

JFK-ACC 76W
JFK-DKR 75E
ATL-LOS 76W
ATL-JNB 77L

None of the overwater flights change; ROB was served as a tag from the JFK-ACC flight.

migair54 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 2):

I think they're talking about the total number of Pax at thebairports of LOS and ACC. Actually I think it's quite posdible, LOS has service from almost every single big airline, AF, BA, IB, QR, TK, EK, EY, SA)">DL, SA, KQ, ET, plus all the regional trafgic and local, Nigeria population is huge and Lagos is a big business destination.

I though Delta operates JNB direct.

I never understood what's in Monrovia see SA)">DL fkying there.

klwright69 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:04 am

I never claimed any of the overwater flights changed as a result of Monrovia being dropped. I was aware it was a tag.

I was just wondering what African routes DL serves. That is all.

Yes, the pictures in that link are really fun. Brings back memories.

Also, for something really fun and amusing, watch this youtube of DL landing in LOS. Go to where they're actually landing in the video. Listen to the reaction of the Nigerian passengers. Does this happen on all flights to LOS?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYqPPAk5znE

Go to about 9.40 in the video

[Edited 2014-07-11 03:10:04]

bennett123 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:04 am

According to wiki, Air France pulled their flight on 17 June 2014.

Will be interesting to see if BA and Brussels Airlines continue with their links.

If not, there will be no direct flights from Europe either.

I did note on wiki that there were security concerns in 2009/2010.

migair54 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:38 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 8):

According to wiki, Air France pulled their flight on 17 June 2014.

I've tried to check and I see no change in AF operation to LOS,

AF3832, CDG-LOS, A332, non-stop, 10:55-16:15
AF3849, LOS-CDG, A332, non-stop, 23:05-06:20 +1

It has to be a very important destination for AF-KLM because both fly there with a very similar schedule.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 7):

I was just wondering what African routes DL serves. That is all.[/quote

I just check and ATL-JNB is non stop also B77L.

[quote=bennett123,reply=8]Will be interesting to see if BA and Brussels Airlines continue with their links.

I don't think any of them will reduce or even cancel LOS, actually I think we might see some more flights in the future to LOS.

jfklganyc · Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:45 pm

It is interesting to see these results. Deltas big Africa push several years ago has turned up very ho hum.

Remember this when you a.netters keep pushing your favorite US airline to serve this section of the world.

bennett123 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:52 pm

migair54

I was referring to Monrovia, not Lagos.

klwright69 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:55 pm

JFKLGANYC you are right on the money on this one. A DL pilot a few years ago was talking to me about how Africa was such a gold mine for DL. He even told me DL was double daily to LOS (not true).

I am always skeptical when people here think AA is eager to expand in Africa.

DL only has 4 routes and UA has 1.

UA dropped AC and the community of Houston was lobbying CO to launch LOS for years before they actually did.

[Edited 2014-07-11 06:25:47]

yellowtail · Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:19 pm

African routes have very high cost to operate from the US and margins even to LOS and JNB are thin and tag ons drive up the cost.

DL probably ran the numbers and calculated that it was probably more profitable to assign all the seat inventory to ACC.

I still think ATL/JFK-NBO would work.

usdcaguy · Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:38 pm

Yes, I can assure you DL made many calculations before puling ROB. Let's also not forget how many times Liberia has complained about Delta's use of older aircraft on the route, although that has since changed.

As far as NBO is concerned, the FAA deemed NBO unsafe from terrorists last time DL wanted to launch service. Not sure if that has changed.

usflyer msp · Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:42 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 12):
He even told me DL was double daily to LOS (not true).

DL was multiple daily to LOS a few years ago (ATL + JFK) so he wasn't making stuff up...

usflyer msp · Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:45 pm

It did not help DL that the Accra to Monrovia tag is the most competitive route in West Africa with Delta, Arik Air, Gambia Bird, Kenya Airways, and Asky all flying it. I flew it on Gambia Bird earlier this year and some people only paid $188 rt

jetblue1965 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:18 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 12):
I am always skeptical when people here think SA)">AA is eager to expand in Africa.

SA)">DL only has 4 routes and SA)">UA has 1.

SA)">UA dropped AC and the community of Houston was lobbying SA)">CO to launch LOS for years before they actually did.

Even though SA)">UA only has 1 flight in the form of IAH-LOS (specifically for oil), SA)">UA's partners has a bit of variety

MS
CAI-JFK

SA
JNB-JFK
JNB-DKR-IAD

ET
ADD-FCO-IAD

BN727227Ultra · Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:26 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
Of course us A.netters will notice this immediately, but the 4 photos of the L15 made me laugh a bit, and then sigh as I miss flying widebody tri-jets.

That photo does look a little compressed

migair54 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:00 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 14):

As far as NBO is concerned, the FAA deemed NBO unsafe from terrorists last time DL wanted to launch service. Not sure if that has changed.

I think NBO will be a great route but, what if they leave KQ fly with the bew B787 and JV the route for profit or loses?? I know for sure that traffic between East Afruca comunityband NA is very big and bigger every day.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 11):

migair54

I was referring to Monrovia, not Lagos.

My mistake, sorry.

Right now one of the main problems of ROB and the whole west africa is the lack of real good and reliable airlines in the region that can join alliances and build real hubs, exactly the opposite of EA were ET, KQ and slowly Rwandair are doing a great job to attract pax from west africa via East Africa to middle East and Asia.

Slowly Arik is building up but i'm not sure how will rhey reach, and ET is trying ASKY in Lome, but I don't see much future. West africa need better airlines but when will we see. Even few years ago Stellios was planning a big lo2 cost in Accra, Fly540 was planning also....

ATLTPA · Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 18):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
Of course us A.netters will notice this immediately, but the 4 photos of the L15 made me laugh a bit, and then sigh as I miss flying widebody tri-jets.

That photo does look a little compressed

It's an L-1011-SP-RJ. Little known aircraft.

ATLTPA

MaverickM11 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 15):
DL was multiple daily to LOS a few years ago (ATL + JFK) so he wasn't making stuff up...

Never. They requested the rights but nothing ever came of it.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 14):
As far as NBO is concerned, the FAA deemed NBO unsafe from terrorists last time DL wanted to launch service. Not sure if that has changed.

Not sure but since then the economics of the route have only gotten worse.

modesto2 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:31 pm

I like this decision as DL has simplified its African flying to the core destinations of JNB, ACC, LOS, and DKR. JNB holds the most business traffic (high-yielding) while ACC and LOS have performed well enough to maintain service. I'm curious about DKR as it only operates a couple times per week. Clearly, it must be somewhat profitable if DL chooses to keep it, but if DL had to cut another African route, this would be my guess. I also wonder how much the ATLLOS route has suffered with UA's IAHLOS operation.

bchandl · Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
I though Delta operates JNB direct.

Daily 777-200LR, ATL-JNB

Timings off the top of my head are something like:

19:30 ATL - 17:00 (+1) JNB

21:00 JNB - 5:30 (+1) ATL

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
Never. They requested the rights but nothing ever came of it.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 17):
SA
JNB-JFK
JNB-DKR-IAD

Once they ditch their A340's, what will they fly on the JNB-JFK route? They're gonna have to have a tech stop and that won't help that route.

Or because of money troubles are they planning to use the A340-300 & -600 until they fall apart?

One they are gone anyone on the JFK-JNB end can go via ATL or even LHR, CDG or AMS for a far better connecting airport than connecting through Africa. Even MIA will likely have direct service by then.

bchandl

ScottB · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 8):
According to wiki, Air France pulled their flight on 17 June 2014.

Will be interesting to see if BA and Brussels Airlines continue with their links.

The recent appearance of Ebola in Monrovia may also have been a cause for concern or may have significantly depressed travel to Liberia/ROB.

jetblue1965 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:37 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 23):
Once they ditch their A340's, what will they fly on the JNB-JFK route? They're gonna have to have a tech stop and that won't help that route.

Or because of money troubles are they planning to use the A340-300 & -600 until they fall apart?

One they are gone anyone on the JFK-JNB end can go via ATL or even LHR, CDG or AMS for a far better connecting airport than connecting through Africa. Even MIA will likely have direct service by then.

Their 346s are still kinda new. Won't be replaced for a while. SAA is in no financial position to make big orders of 777X/350, so any replacement frames would probably be leased not bought.

prosa · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Thread starter):
SA
JNB-JFK
JNB-DKR-IAD

Once they ditch their A340's, what will they fly on the JNB-JFK route? They're gonna have to have a tech stop and that won't help that route.

Maybe they could return to their former practice of making a stop in SID.

CALMSP · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:47 pm

many on here praise DL for the business decision, but you take a yander over to the UA Discontinues STR thread and a complete opposite tone.

I'm sure somewhere we can find Smisek is reponsible for cutting Monrovia in the DL network!

AF022 · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 19):
Slowly Arik is building up but i'm not sure how will rhey reach, and ET is trying ASKY in Lome, but I don't see much future.

LOS will never be a hub because connecting thru LOS is hell. Why would anyone connect via Nigeria going somewhere else in the region? Not going to happen. I don't even see how ARIK can keep their JFK route going - must be just for prestige.

ASKY seems to be doing well. They have 7 aircraft according to Wikipedia and have pretty good coverage of the region. Support from ET certainly helps. Other airlines seem to be falling apart - Senegal Airlines, Camair, etc. I don't know about Gambia Bird, however.

BN727227Ultra · Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:33 pm

Quoting ATLTPA (Reply 20):
It's an L-1011-SP-RJ. Little known aircraft.

ATLTPA

Nice!

MesaFlyGuy · Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting prosa (Reply 26):
Quoting Mah4546 (Thread starter):SA
JNB-JFK
JNB-DKR-IAD

Once they ditch their A340's, what will they fly on the JNB-JFK route? They're gonna have to have a tech stop and that won't help that route.

Maybe they could return to their former practice of making a stop in SID.

This winter they temporarily put the a340-300 on the JFK route and made the westbound leg stop in DKR, while the eastbound leg went nonstop

They could probably put the a330-200 on the JFK route (and the IAD route, too), and make both the east and westbound flights stop in DKR.

newhaven · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:05 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 28):
LOS will never be a hub because connecting thru LOS is hell. Why would anyone connect via Nigeria going somewhere else in the region? Not going to happen. I don't even see how ARIK can keep their JFK route going - must be just for prestige.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to be going to that part of the world to begin with ?

Type-Rated · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting newhaven (Reply 31):
Quoting AF022 (Reply 28):
LOS will never be a hub because connecting thru LOS is hell. Why would anyone connect via Nigeria going somewhere else in the region? Not going to happen. I don't even see how ARIK can keep their JFK route going - must be just for prestige.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to be going to that part of the world to begin with ?

The oil companies pay big bucks to employees that are stationed there. They even get a most generou salary increase. And a few company paid trips to Europe as a bonus a few times during the year. A lot of the employees refer to it as "battle pay". One woman I know went to LOS for two years and when she came back she was able to buy a new house, cash.

LV · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:41 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 27):
I'm sure somewhere we can find Smisek is reponsible for cutting Monrovia in the DL network!

Ebola showing up in the Monrovia region is a conspiracy spearheaded by Smisek to depress DL's yields. There, you are a welcome.

Thenoflyzone · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:03 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 2):
That works out at 27,400 passengers PER DAY to Nigeria (10 million divided by 365 days).

That is 34 A380's PER DAY at 800 pax/A380.

Even the claim of 205,000 pax ex Liberia is almost 1 A380's-worth per day.

Even if those numbers include all carriers flying to Nigeria and/or Liberia, that's a significant amount of traffic.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
I think they're talking about the total number of Pax at thebairports of LOS and ACC

Yes, LOS handled over 10 million passengers in 2012, ACC handled 2.2 million in 2012, and as for ROB, it did a total of 133,000 in 2009, so 205,000 for last year makes total sense.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-07-11 19:05:16]

9w748capt · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting ATLTPA (Reply 20):
It's an L-1011-SP-RJ. Little known aircraft.

This literally had me busting out laughing. Holy hell that's hilarious.

airportugal310 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:36 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 27):

Agreed, it's obnoxious, but you won't find me doing it. Leave that to the amateurs

Navigator · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:46 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
Thanks for sharing the article, bad day for Liberia, and smart financial move on Deltas part.

When an airline pulls out like this it is sometimes a sign of not being able to exploit the maket fully. In Deltas case maybe they could perform better with a better product. Maybe it is not only in Africa Delta is having a hard time to compete with other Airlines with newer planes and better service. And when looking at financial performance for a destination like this you have to take freight into account. I am a bit surprised that no US carrier can make it work to ROB. US flights here have a long history, I Think Pan Am even helped the liberians build the Airport and ATC was operated by Pan Am. Sad day for Delta I Think..

RWA380 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:46 am

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
When an airline pulls out like this it is sometimes a sign of not being able to exploit the maket fully

Sometimes it's about crew safety, sometimes it's about economics too, I based my comments on the article provided by the O.P.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
In Deltas case maybe they could perform better with a better product.

In this particular case, there is no direct competition unless you wish to transit Europe or another West African nation.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
And when looking at financial performance for a destination like this you have to take freight into account

I sure do hope DL considered cargo before cancelling this route, nah, I'm sure they considered cargo. Had the belly been paying for the flight, I am sure DL would be flying it still. I would think that the combination of factors has DL pulling out of ROB.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
US flights here have a long history,

Agreed, PA had been serving ROB a very long time, but gone are the days of 35-50% load factors being acceptable.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
Think Pan Am even helped the liberians build the Airport and ATC was operated by Pan Am.

Thanks for that info, I was not aware of that, seems like it would be right given PAs longevity at ROB, PA did the same thing across the Pacific. What an amazing carrier PA was, not only flying there but building the infrastructure and maintaining it as well, try and keep that kind of operation going with todays economy.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
Sad day for Delta I Think

Maybe, but they don't seem to be crying too hard in the article, but certainly a sad day for ROB and those flying to & from the U.S.A and Liberia.

usdcaguy · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:12 pm

Does it seem to anyone else that DL may be open to a subsidy from the Liberian govt to maintain its service? The article mentions something about high-level talks and the possibility of dropping the suspension. Sounds like this could be a case where revenue guarantees could save the day, although that has got to be a low budgetary priority for the Liberians.

cokepopper · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:32 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
When an airline pulls out like this it is sometimes a sign of not being able to exploit the maket fully. In Deltas case maybe they could perform better with a better product. Maybe it is not only in Africa Delta is having a hard time to compete with other Airlines with newer planes and better service. And when looking at financial performance for a destination like this you have to take freight into account. I am a bit surprised that no US carrier can make it work to ROB. US flights here have a long history, I Think Pan Am even helped the liberians build the Airport and ATC was operated by Pan Am. Sad day for Delta I Think..

Thats one of the funniest things I have read on here in while... Thanks for the laugh.
Have you stepped foot on a actual INTL Delta configured A/C? just curious.
Delta's stands up very well compared to our competition. I think our awards and financials prove that.

MIflyer12 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):

Quoting Navigator (Reply 37):
When an airline pulls out like this it is sometimes a sign of not being able to exploit the maket fully. In Deltas case maybe they could perform better with a better product.

All of Delta's long-haul 767s (all long-haul widebodies, actually), have been comprehensively updated with AVOD throughout, and lie-flats in Business. DL actually has the flexibility of both high and low-count J configurations among its 58 767-300ERs, better to match cabin mix.

The 1-stop BA 767 to LHR competes for North American traffic if the traveler wants an LHR overnight due to (most) flight timings. The SN 333 may be even less competition due to a very limited schedule onward to North America. It's not clear there's adequate demand/yield for any U.S. direct service.

MaverickM11 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:30 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 41):
It's not clear there's adequate demand/yield for any U.S. direct service.

Occam's razor. I don't know where this product canard comes from, especially in places like West Africa where the choice isn't between one product and another, better product; the choice is between one flight and a boat or your sandals.

usdcaguy · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 40):
Delta's stands up very well compared to our competition. I think our awards and financials prove that.

Not really. Few customers consider DL to be superior to companies like BA or even KL or AF. Although DL can, in a sense, say that its hard product is "competitive" since it offers AVOD in every cabin on intl wide-bodies and lie-flats in business, many customers continue to complain about inconsistencies in onboard service and catering and numerous problems with IROP handling. What DL offers may therefore be considered sufficient to the effect that customers should prefer direct service on DL to a connection via LHR or BRU. It is that argument that should be made instead of saying that DL's service "stands up very well" which implies being "as good as or better" than others, which is difficult to justify objectively using third-party information and reviews.

MaverickM11 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 43):
many customers continue to complain about inconsistencies in onboard service and catering and numerous problems with IROP handling

I think that's true for any carrier, but in AF/KL's case they only really have one hub to worry about (forget ORY). I haven't seen AF/KL's operational stats but DL has been posting some pretty good numbers lately.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 43):
Few customers consider DL to be superior to companies like BA or even KL or AF.

What's superior about BA/AF/KL? The angled lie flat on AF J? The 10 across on their 777s? The 8 across BA J? Except for AA's old J, I'd take any US carrier's J over KL; they're just downright cheap nose-to-tail.

PVD757 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:29 pm

PVD has a large diaspora of Liberians. I wonder if there was a way to access ROB through ATL, it might have done a little better? ATL obviously would have supplied more feed across the DL network from all across the U.S.

Viscount724 · Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:23 am

Quoting newhaven (Reply 31):

Why would anyone in their right mind want to be going to that part of the world to begin with ?

Nigeria is the largest country in Africa by population (around 180 million) and the 7th largest in the world. It's also the largest economy in Africa (GDP), overtaking South Africa quite recently. Lots of business traffic. I remember a few years ago BA said LOS was one of their most profitable routes.

usflyer msp · Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:25 am

Quoting newhaven (Reply 31):
Why would anyone in their right mind want to be going to that part of the world to begin with ?

Maybe because some of us actually have business and maybe even actually like West Africa? If I could give your post negative points, I would!

Quoting pvd757 (Reply 45):
PVD has a large diaspora of Liberians. I wonder if there was a way to access ROB through ATL, it might have done a little better? ATL obviously would have supplied more feed across the DL network from all across the U.S.

Honestly, it probably would not have made a difference. If you can get to ATL you can probably get to JFK...

Quoting AF022 (Reply 28):
Other airlines seem to be falling apart - Senegal Airlines, Camair, etc. I don't know about Gambia Bird, however.

Gambia Bird is fine. I got to briefly speak with the CEO when I flew them this winter and both he and Germania were happy with their results thus far...I wrote a trip report @ Sabbatical #10 & 11: ACC To BJL/DKR On Gambia Bird (by usflyer msp Apr 6 2014 in Trip Reports)

thegoldenargosy · Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting pvd757 (Reply 45):
PVD has a large diaspora of Liberians. I wonder if there was a way to access ROB through ATL, it might have done a little better? ATL obviously would have supplied more feed across the DL network from all across the U.S.

At the beginning it was ATL-ACC-ROB. I think ROB started x1 weekly.

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