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justloveplanes
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:25 pm

A Guam Bound flight from HNL was diverted to Midway after fire was detected in the cockpit.

Instrumentation was lost including:

Radar
Radio Comms

Flying blind and cockpit gear going out one by one progressively.

Landed in Midway. Passenger luggage still stuck on a tiny runway in Midway since Midway has no gear for extracting luggage from a 777.

Serious stuff and not a whiff on the news I could see.

Just talked to a passenger (fellow UA million miler). He is on the ground waiting for his replacement flight.

Lucky things turned out OK. Pilots must have been pretty sharp.
 
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barney captain
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:28 pm

Wow. Do you have a flight number?
Southeast Of Disorder
 
KELPkid
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
A Guam Bound flight from HNL was diverted to Midway after fire was detected in the cockpit.

Seriously? There's enough demand between GUM and HNL for a 777? What happened to Air Mike and the 737's?
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
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DocLightning
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Just talked to a passenger (fellow UA million miler). He is on the ground waiting for his replacement flight.

How did you talk to him? Midway is a rock in the middle of a lot of water. It's barely large enough for the runways it has. There are some researchers and a whole bunch of birds there. Have they been stuck out there for five days?
-Doc Lightning-

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planespotting
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:32 pm

Looks like United 201

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...1/history/20140711/0015Z/PHNL/PMDY

Just happened yesterday. According to the graph estimates it took them about 80-90 mins to get on the ground after they started descending, as they were pretty far from Midway at the time.

[Edited 2014-07-11 12:38:08]
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N62NA
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:43 pm

Just reading the subject line, I thought it had diverted to MDW  
 
ripcordd
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:56 pm

this is a great web site about midway
http://peteatmidway.blogspot.com/
 
ScottB
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
A Guam Bound flight from HNL was diverted to Midway after fire was detected in the cockpit.

Things must have been getting a bit hairy from looking at the flightpath on flightaware; it appears that they initially decided to return to HNL and then chose to divert to MDY. And it looks like they were still quite a way from MAJ.
 
mwhcvt
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:02 pm

Going to be interesting to see this one develop/investigated...I wonder if it will cause any ideas/theories on that big mystery of the year...glad that it has landed safely, and in a place I would love to visit
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
What happened to Air Mike and the 737's?

Even before the merger CO had direct flights between HNL and GUM as well as Air Mike islands hopper.
 
rfields5421
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:06 pm

UA flew in another aircraft which landed 5 1/2 hours later.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2068

The extra aircraft spent about an hour on the ground and returned the pax to HNL

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2104

Pretty quick dispatch and return of a replacement B777.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
BoeingGuy
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:07 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):
Things must have been getting a bit hairy from looking at the flightpath on flightaware; it appears that they initially decided to return to HNL and then chose to divert to MDY. And it looks like they were still quite a way from MAJ.

The procedure for smoke that is not visually confirmed to be extinguished is to land at the nearest suitable airport - period. Looks like they did so. If this incident was another Swissair 111 or Air Canada 797 (which it does not appear to have been) then minutes could have made a difference. The crew did exactly the right thing.

I'd rather be sleeping on a cot on a concrete floor in the likes of MDY or CDB then having tried to make it HNL or ANC with nice hotels, but end up dead, if it were that kind of situation. The crew likely had no way of knowing at the time.

Nice job on their part. Anyone know what caused the smoke and apparent instrument failure?
 
dakota123
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:16 pm

If the description of consequences is accurate maybe the other shoe has dropped (Malaysian 370)...
“And If I claim to be a wise man, well surely it means that I don’t know”
 
ScottB
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:23 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
The procedure for smoke that is not visually confirmed to be extinguished is to land at the nearest suitable airport - period. Looks like they did so.

Oh, I totally get that. The point being that the initial decision made by the pilots was to return to HNL, but after what appears to be about half an hour of flying a return course to HNL, the situation became more serious as they chose to divert to MDY. If things had looked bad initially, they likely would have immediately diverted to MDY which was only about an hour's flying time away.
 
bchandl
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:23 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
How did you talk to him? Midway is a rock in the middle of a lot of water.

With a telephone?

There is comm equipment on the island and they likely tried their best to accomondate the pax to reach out to people.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
It's barely large enough for the runways it has. There are some researchers and a whole bunch of birds there. Have they been stuck out there for five days?

No, it happened yesterday and they were picked up by a fresh plane a few hours later.

bchandl
 
SonomaFlyer
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:30 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
The point being that the initial decision made by the pilots was to return to HNL

What proof do you have that they actually made a decision to return to HNL? You can't rely on the Flightaware track as they've been known to be very wrong. There is no quote from anyone I see at UA confirming that they were returning to HNL.

The procedure is to get the airplane on the ground ASAP. If the runway can accommodate a 777, they land. That strip has taken a 744 before from DL which had a cracked windscreen so the runway itself is not a problem.
 
BoeingGuy
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
Oh, I totally get that. The point being that the initial decision made by the pilots was to return to HNL, but after what appears to be about half an hour of flying a return course to HNL, the situation became more serious as they chose to divert to MDY. If things had looked bad initially, they likely would have immediately diverted to MDY which was only about an hour's flying time away.

I don't know enough about what was going on. It's possible that they could have gotten some EICAS messages of system failures and turned back to HNL. Then when the smoke appeared, the turned to MDY. It's also possible that Flight Aware doesn't show it correctly.

I don't have enough information to know if they correctly followed the "Smoke, Fire or Fumes" procedure correctly from the start.
 
ScottB
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 15):
You can't rely on the Flightaware track as they've been known to be very wrong. There is no quote from anyone I see at UA confirming that they were returning to HNL.

I realize that flightaware isn't an authoritative source, which is why I qualified my statement with "it appears that" (based on the track in flight aware. That said, from examining the track log data, the data which isn't from flightaware itself doesn't appear to be obviously unreliable either.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
I don't have enough information to know if they correctly followed the "Smoke, Fire or Fumes" procedure correctly from the start.

I wouldn't infer from the flight path that they had or hadn't followed procedure correctly. IMO it is far more likely that something failed which led to the decision to turn back to HNL, followed by a smoke/fire/fumes indication which would have required the diversion to MDY

[Edited 2014-07-11 13:50:00]
 
hivue
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:55 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Instrumentation was lost including:

Radar
Radio Comms

Any corroboration/confirmation? What's your source? That's pretty serious sounding.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
727LOVER
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
Just reading the subject line, I thought it had diverted to MDW

777 landing @ MDW? That would have been a sight !!
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
hivue
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Flying blind and cockpit gear going out one by one progressively.

If true, how on earth did this avoid the MSM always-breaking news cycle?
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
BoeingGuy
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
I wouldn't infer from the flight path that they had or hadn't followed procedure correctly. IMO it is far more likely that something failed which led to the decision to turn back to HNL, followed by a smoke/fire/fumes indication which would have required the diversion to MDY

Like in my previous paragraph when I stated:  
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
I don't know enough about what was going on. It's possible that they could have gotten some EICAS messages of system failures and turned back to HNL. Then when the smoke appeared, the turned to MDY. It's also possible that Flight Aware doesn't show it correctly.

Incidentally, the "Smoke, Fire or Fumes" checklist is what's called "unannunciated". There means there is no crew alerting "indication". The indication is that you smell it or see it.

There are some Fire Warnings like Cargo Fire, Engine Fire, Crew Rest Smoke, etc with their own checklists, but in a case like smoke on the flight deck or a galley oven or something, there is no airplane crew indication.
 
bchandl
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 15):
What proof do you have that they actually made a decision to return to HNL? You can't rely on the Flightaware track as they've been known to be very wrong. There is no quote from anyone I see at UA confirming that they were returning to HNL.

No you can't rely on it, but the track makes sense, and the odds that an error yields a track that could be a logical conclusion seems quite low to me.
 
karadion
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:19 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
It's barely large enough for the runways it has.

It isn't the first time a plane that large has landed at Henderson Field. Delta Air Lines flight 277 (744) had to make an emergency landing due to a crack windshield back in 2011.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/2...747_forced_to_land__at_Midway.html

[Edited 2014-07-11 14:19:44]
 
iahcsr
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:20 pm

Ship 2510 a 777A for those who track such things.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
747megatop
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Instrumentation was lost including:

Radar
Radio Comms

Flying blind and cockpit gear going out one by one progressively.

Too early to say without the incident report for this and without the black boxes & incident report for MH 370; but can't help wonder if something remotely similar happened to MH 370 but far more serious. Only time will tell i guess. Thankfully everyone on this flight is in one piece thanks to prompt action by the flying crew.
 
hivue
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:48 pm

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 24):
777A

I don't recognize that ICAO designation.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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redzeppelin
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 26):
Quoting iahcsr (Reply 24):777A
I don't recognize that ICAO designation.

777-200, non-ER/LR.
 
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jetfuel
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:52 pm

Plane was delayed on the ground in HNL over 4 hours with mechanical issues before leaving HNL
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
747megatop
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:35 pm

Henderson Field airport information for those who are interested - http://www.airnav.com/airport/PMDY
 
mcg
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:06 pm

I saw "Midway" and thought MDW.
 
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7BOEING7
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:29 pm

Hopefully they didn't take out any "goonie birds" that like to frequent the runway.
 
justloveplanes
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 18):
Any corroboration/confirmation? What's your source? That's pretty serious sounding.

A passenger onboard. He is someone used to handle information of this type, so I am guessing he got it from one of the pilots and yes it was serious sounding. Ongoing degradation of systems was how it was described to me.

Quoting hivue (Reply 20):
If true, how on earth did this avoid the MSM always-breaking news cycle?

I expect it to get there. Midway obviously an emergency of some magnitude.
 
rfields5421
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:03 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 20):
If true, how on earth did this avoid the MSM always-breaking news cycle?

It will show up on Saturday or Sunday - after the media has some passengers to interview.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 15):You can't rely on the Flightaware track as they've been known to be very wrong. There is no quote from anyone I see at UA confirming that they were returning to HNL.
I realize that flightaware isn't an authoritative source, which is why I qualified my statement with "it appears that" (based on the track in flight aware. That said, from examining the track log data, the data which isn't from flightaware itself doesn't appear to be obviously unreliable either.

Midway is an ETOPS diversion airport. However, there is still coordination required. If it is gooney bird season at MDY - landing any aircraft can be risky.

Crews will of course try to take a sick aircraft back to a maintenance base especially if it is the origin of the flight if the situation does not require an immediate landing.

My personal opinion is that the crew had indications of problems which led them to decide to turn back to HNL. Which escalated to fire/ smoke warnings in a few minutes making an immediate landing necessary.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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garpd
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:06 am

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 8):
.I wonder if it will cause any ideas/theories on that big mystery of the year

I win! I told my friend someone will link this to MH370 within 10 posts!

Seriously though. There is no evidence the two are in any way similar, other than involving 777s!
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shengzhurou
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:13 am

Sheng Zhu Rou
 
citationjet
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:17 am

From avherald:
A United Boeing 777-200, registration N210UA performing flight UA-201 (dep Jul 10th) from Honolulu,HI (USA) to Guam,MP (USA), was enroute at FL350 over the Pacific Ocean about 300nm southsouthwest of Midway Islands,UM (USA) and about 850nm west of Honolulu when the crew decided to return to Honolulu due to smell of smoke on board. The aircraft descended to FL300 for the way back. About 10 minutes later haze was observed in the cabin prompting the crew to turn north and divert to Midway Islands. The aircraft dumped fuel and landed safely in Midway about one hour after turning around.

A Passenger reported there was a "problem with one of the wings" and the cabin became smokey. Multiple passengers reported the aircraft had suffered technical problems involving a burning smell in the cockpit prior to departure and departed Honolulu with a delay of about 4 hours as result. Passengers tweeted that the aircraft dumped fuel on the way to Midway.

There is a report on the Internet telling that the aircraft lost transponder, radios and other systems one by one, however, radar data indicate the transponder worked until touchdown.

A replacement Boeing 777-200 registration N779UA positioned to Midway as flight UA-2068 and returned the passengers to Honolulu as flight UA-2104 delivering the passengers back to Honolulu about 14 hours after their departure from Honolulu.
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LittleFokker
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:22 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
Seriously? There's enough demand between GUM and HNL for a 777?

CO flew a daily 764 HNL-GUM round trip (the aircraft would then do a GUM-NRT round trip before returning to HNL). This missing is now being done by a 777. Never had a problem filing up that plane with cargo.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
What happened to Air Mike and the 737's

Still there and thriving. See the thread about adding GUM-ICN and GUM-PVG service.
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777Jet
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:26 am

Quoting dakota123 (Reply 12):
If the description of consequences is accurate maybe the other shoe has dropped (Malaysian 370)...

That's what I was thinking. Glad everything turned out okay though...
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bchandl
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:33 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 38):

Were they both 777-200?

Interesting connection, but we may be drawing correlations because we want a correlation for answer's sake.
 
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777Jet
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 39):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 38):

Were they both 777-200?

Interesting connection, but we may be drawing correlations because we want a correlation for answer's sake.

Yes, but FWIW the MH bird was a -200ER and the UA bird was just a -200 (non-ER) IIRC...

I agree. The only reason a correlation was drawn was because of the MH370 cockpit fire theory proposed by some and the fact that this incident was a 777 with the term 'fire in cockpit' in the headline... Interesting to see what will be made of it nonetheless...
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SonomaFlyer
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Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:01 am

The HNL-GUM sector is a big money maker. Between govt contracts/military families and cargo, they do nicely flying a 777.
 
GentFromAlaska
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:18 am

Here's a pix showing the two 777 side-by-side http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...land-after-burning-smell-reported/

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
How did you talk to him?

By coconut husk phone of course. Contrary to popular belief there was a cell tower on Midway. They also use satellite phones. At last check it's a little bit more than Gilligan's Island. There are about 100 residents who reside on the Atoll and a whole lot of bird poop. The bird outnumber humans by about fifty to one. If you go there take a hat. A school of about 300 dolphins also call the island waters home as do sea turtles.

[quote=DocLightning,reply=3]Midway is a rock in the middle of a lot of water

Actually the correct term is Atoll. Coral Reef works too.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
There are some researchers and a whole bunch of birds there.

At roughly two and a half miles It's a little bit larger than one might think if you have good shoes you can wade a considerable distance in shallow water. There is also a tourism component. We flew maritime inspectors out to Midway from HNL twice a year. The U.S. National Park Service keeps employees out there too. The FAA and or their contractors travel out there to inspect the runways.

Here's what tripadvisor.com says about Midway Island http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g2...ii:United-States:Midway.Atoll.html

There have been quite a few diversions to Midway Island; most recently a DL 747 in 2011
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Revelation
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:37 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 33):
If it is gooney bird season at MDY - landing any aircraft can be risky.

Compared to a cockpit fire? I know gooneys are big birds, but I think one takes the chance on a bird strike, given one isn't demanding much thrust from the engines when landing.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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DocLightning
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting bchandl (Reply 14):

With a telephone?

There is comm equipment on the island and they likely tried their best to accomondate the pax to reach out to people.

They let 300-odd people use the phone? Or is there cell service out there?

How does an airline handle a situation like this? The 777 that went out would have to have enough fuel for the return trip, right? Would that cause problems for landing? What sorts of facilities are there on the island to shelter that many people from, say, inclement weather if an aircraft had to land and be evacuated in the middle of one?
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Revelation
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
How does an airline handle a situation like this?

They put their best people on to the case:

Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
chrisair
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:57 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 42):
There is also a tourism component. We flew maritime inspectors out to Midway from HNL twice a year. The U.S. National Park Service keeps employees out there too. The FAA and or their contractors travel out there to inspect the runways.

Tourism for whom? The govt workers or can I go there?

Speaking of vacationing on a remote rock in the middle of an ocean: CXI sounds like a great place to vacation where nobody from my office can bother me.
 
rfields5421
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Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:18 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 43):
Compared to a cockpit fire? I know gooneys are big birds, but I think one takes the chance on a bird strike, given one isn't demanding much thrust from the engines when landing.

Back in the late 60s, an EC-121 of my first US Navy squadron hit several birds at Midway while attempting to land, knocking out two engines on one wing. The Flight Engineer told me he was sure they were going down short of the runway, but barely made it.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
bchandl
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:49 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 40):
I agree. The only reason a correlation was drawn was because of the MH370 cockpit fire theory proposed by some and the fact that this incident was a 777 with the term 'fire in cockpit' in the headline... Interesting to see what will be made of it nonetheless...

Yeah but notice how these pilots were able to communicate their problem with someone on the ground. MH370 made no comms of any type.

That fact just doesn't add up at all with any legitimate fire/emergency issues that may have come about.

But all of that is off topic, so...

bchandl
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1655
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:30 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
How does an airline handle a situation like this?

We activated our emergency response, sent a rescue aircraft and got our passengers and crew out of there as quickly as possible.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts

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